The Dragon Blood-line Options

[elreb]

Regarding the present topic, it's clear dragon-worship is much older than the cities and step pyramids of Sumer and other places. elreb, how far back was that Dracontium in Brittany dated? Almost 7 thousand years?

Yes, 6850 BC when it comes to “Tumulus” as tombs covered by mounds of earth, and Dolmen or portal tomb from 4000 BC.

And the mysterious "flood" - I'd like to know what really happened there, why so many cultures include a flood in their mythologies.

Not flood but floods. Naturally you had the one at 12,700 years ago, several inner sea floods, plus several Volcanic/tsunami floods as late as 700 BC.

[elreb]

I presume this is similar to Catastrophism? I would be interested in an elaboration of this concept.

“Catastrophic Evolution” is “Change because of Change”.

Change comes from the outside and can be either Earth born or Extraterrestrial. The Sun and Stars have affects on our planet as do Ice Ages, floods and Volcanoes.

Trans-cultural visitors/invaders, such as merchants, explorers, soldiers, diplomats, slaves, and hired artisans carry their culture with them and change the local population.

Catastrophic Evolution is sudden, total and irrecoverable. A Beefalo is a fertile hybrid offspring of domestic cattle and the American bison. A Mexican is the descendants of the Indigenous peoples of Mexico and a Spaniard.

The liger is a hybrid cross between a male lion and a tigress and is the largest known cat in the world.

Survival of the fittest only keeps things more the same. Only change can create change.

(IMG:http://cdn.cdwow.com/blog/files/2010/08/Liger.jpg)

[elreb]

SANDERS...TALKING ABOUT EVOLUTION

Welcome to webmaster world...try doing 6 of them!

[Sanders]

SANDERS...TALKING ABOUT EVOLUTION

Welcome to webmaster world...try doing 6 of them!

Yikes (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[elreb]

Yikes (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Your website is coming along extremely well. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I noticed you are obliging yourself to the use conventional dating before 800 BC.

I was wondering how much proof, evidence, explanations, Carbon-14 or whatever you prefer… would it take…to get you to take a closer look at the reality of dating.

Conventional dating is nothing more than 1461 – 139 = 1322 BC…with no supporting...what so ever. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbdown.gif)

[Sanders]

Your website is coming along extremely well. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I noticed you are obliging yourself to the use conventional dating before 800 BC.

I was wondering how much proof, evidence, explanations, Carbon-14 or whatever you prefer… would it take…to get you to take a closer look at the reality of dating.

Conventional dating is nothing more than 1461 – 139 = 1322 BC…with no supporting...what so ever. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbdown.gif)

First, I really appreciate that you've obviously taken the time to visit my site and read what I've written. If your main reservation is the dating, I'm flattered.

As to the dating, that's a monster I really haven't taken the time to wrestle with. I have various things on my plate - try to make a living and pay my rent, finish my book, get it translated into Japanese, find a publisher and/or a patron, prepare a presentation with graphics, keep adding content to the website, and eat and sleep when I remember to.

I have made some effort to avoid committing myself to dating events when I can, as I am very aware of this vagueness and of the effort by historians to date to skew the dating so as not to rock the boat too much. I commit to the rough "3000" B.C.E. date (with regard to a Sumerian or Assyrian identity of the original constellation identifiers) only in reflecting the research of Springer-Verlag (Early Astronomy) in which this is a date indicated by the positions of the stars as they were categorized into constellations. (Actually, it is the positions of the stars which were ignored, i.e. not seen that indicates the date.) With regard to Stephen Franklin's papers, I again attempt only to give a sense of (and a link to) what he is saying.

I'd like to explore more into the things you are talking about, but I'm sure I'd have to go into full research mode, make up some charts, follow your clues, check sources, do some math, hey, I love doing that sort of stuff. I just don't have the luxury at the moment so I'm sort of avoiding it.

There may be some slip-ups in my articles (I'm sure there are, on a variety of topics, though I feel they are minor and that the jist of what I'm trying to convey is much closer to the truth than conventional wisdom and at least makes some holistic sense...) and if you want to point out anything specific maybe I can put on my "research" hat and dive into it, and I am trying to avoid nailing myself down as to dates having not done the requisite research for myself. I do sense however that the Hyksos expulsion from Egypt and the Exodus were different events, just going by the Pharaohs at the time and their likely Hebrew counterparts and contemporaries. As for the exodus from Egypt to Greece and Anatolia, I'm not sure about that. I could go either way - coincident with the "Exodus", or coincident with the Hyksos expulsion. I don't see where it matters much in the larger scheme. Also, just a wild guess, the Hyksos expulsion correllates with the exit from Mesopotamia of the nomadic "Turkic" tribes, and the similarity of the tribe name of Avar and the Egyptian Hyksos capitol name Avaris are not coincidence.

But this is really slippery stuff, at least to me. I'm trying to be careful in how I word things. But, sometimes I get careless and revert to the "official" timeline, or, almost as bad, I write when I'm a little drunk. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ... Actually, I LOVE to write when I'm drunk. I'm not always so thrilled the next day.

Anyway, yeah, it's fun, it's a lot of work, and I appreciate that you appreciate that it's slowly coming along.

Thanks for the comments, elreb.

[Sanders]

I'm curious, elreb, where would you date the overrunning of Canaan by the Amorites? Historians say this started around 2000 BC, which I suspect is too early by your time-clock. But archeological finds suggest a period at this time when Phoenician cities were abandoned and Phoenicians migrated to, and largely changed, Crete. Curious on your take.

[elreb]

I'm curious, elreb, where would you date the overrunning of Canaan by the Amorites? Historians say this started around 2000 BC, which I suspect is too early by your time-clock. But archeological finds suggest a period at this time when Phoenician cities were abandoned and Phoenicians migrated to, and largely changed, Crete. Curious on your take.

Here again, the problem is “Cross-dating” which are at least 1000 years off.

Areas of occupation, can easily be attributive to native cultures back 10,000 years but can not be claimed by the Canaan or the Amorite.

Something as simple as the Abydos King List, which is literally carved in stone, noticeably does not include Akhenaten, Smenkhkare, Tutankhamen, and Ay. Ramses II is not even on the list simple because none of these folks were kings when the list was made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abydos_King_List

The main reason is because “Conventional Dating” is off by a mile.

Ramses II lived just before Akhenaten and Tutankhamen who were about to became “Super Kings” and the richest men in the area.

18th dynasty Egypt begins around 800 BC. It is generally accepted that Isreal kings lived during this time span.

I have the Trojan war around 850-800 BC.

This post has been edited by elreb: Nov 6 2010, 01:58 PM

[Sanders]

But a thick band of sand found at the sites of Byblos, Tyre (I can't remember, several Phoenician cities) are archeologically dated to circa BC 2000. Are those estimates wrong? And if so, by what logic?

[elreb]

But a thick band of sand found at the sites of Byblos, Tyre (I can't remember, several Phoenician cities) are archeologically dated to circa BC 2000. Are those estimates wrong? And if so, by what logic?

If you could point me to the evidence, I’ll correct it.

Here again, the problem is “Cross-dating” and wonder if we understand what this term means?

(IMG:http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Jug_Byblos_Louvre_AO14707.jpg/220px-Jug_Byblos_Louvre_AO14707.jpg) This Byblos jug is cross-dated to 1600 BC which is mis-dated by 800 years.

Between you and me, there is no proof that Byblos, Tyre and Sidon are correctly located. In fact, Tyre is Crossed-dated to Amarna letters found in Egypt (for fact 800 years off) under the double assumption that "Abibalus king of Berytus"…was indeed Tyre.

It is all baloney upon SPAM.

[Sanders]

If you could point me to the evidence, I’ll correct it.

Here again, the problem is “Cross-dating” and wonder if we understand what this term means?

(IMG:http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Jug_Byblos_Louvre_AO14707.jpg/220px-Jug_Byblos_Louvre_AO14707.jpg) This Byblos jug is cross-dated to 1600 BC which is mis-dated by 800 years.

Between you and me, there is no proof that Byblos, Tyre and Sidon are correctly located. In fact, Tyre is Crossed-dated to Amarna letters found in Egypt (for fact 800 years off) under the double assumption that "Abibalus king of Berytus"…was indeed Tyre.

It is all baloney upon SPAM.

I didn't bookmark it ... I'll have to re-search it out what I had read regarding the abandonment of Phoenician cities. But foregoing all that, when do you think the Amorite kingdom was at its height? I feel that the Amorites were central to the dragon line, i.e. the "Rose Line".

[elreb]

I didn't bookmark it ... I'll have to re-search it out what I had read regarding the abandonment of Phoenician cities. But foregoing all that, when do you think the Amorite kingdom was at its height? I feel that the Amorites were central to the dragon line, i.e. the "Rose Line".

I have Cain equal to Cainopolis and Canaan at Qena, Egypt

The Ram headed Amun/Zeus could also be a spin on Cain as Ptah, the craftsmen of Memphis, against Abel the Sheppard…husbandman of the highlands of Crete.

Cainanites as Phoenicians make them Eneti, Veneti, Heneti and so also the Amorites/Amu and in portion “Dragon-blood".

There is a potential possibility of a relation between Amun and Amu which gives you a date of 1000 BC.

We get a good Solar date of May 28, 585 BC but I still need to pin point a water disaster around the time of Jason and his “Eneti” Argonauts.

This post has been edited by elreb: Nov 6 2010, 06:49 PM

[Sanders]

<s>

Cool. Cheers.

[elreb]

On our “History and the Elite” thread I will keep adding proof that the 18th dynasty of Egypt was part of the Persian period.

In 1923 Howard Carter while uncovering Tut tomb stated:

"This last (object) will probably rank as one of the greatest artistic treasures of the tomb, and on our first visit we found it hard to tear ourselves away from it. Its outer face was completely covered with gesso; upon this prepared surface there were a series of brilliantly colored and exquisitely painted designs---hunting scenes upon the curved panels of the lid, battle scenes upon the sides, and upon the ends representations of the king in lion form, trampling his enemies under his feet".

"There is another remarkable thing about the painted scenes upon the box. The motives are Egyptian and the treatment Egyptian, and yet they leave the impression on your mind of something strangely "non-Egyptian", and you cannot for the life of you explain exactly where the differences lie.

(IMG:http://www.suneagle1.com/images/chest.jpg) They remind you of other things, too---the finest "Persian" miniatures..."

[Sanders]

On our “History and the Elite” thread I will keep adding proof that the 18th dynasty of Egypt was part of the Persian period.

Keep going, elreb, all very interesting. I haven't participated much lately, I'm sort of preoccupied at the moment ... life is hard these days.

elreb, I've said it before, your posts tend to be a little bit cryptic to those of us laymen. Not a criticism of you, but more one of me or us, for not having a thorough enough background to grasp what you are getting at sometimes. The snippet I quoted above, "the 18th dynasty of Egypt was part of the Persian period" goes a long way toward clearing it up. If you'd care to elaborate, I'm all ears.

I have a gripe with 'John' of Ladon-Gog (apart from our religious leanings) ... it's all there, but nowhere is an easily digested summary which ties together all his research to be found. That's probably why I quote him so much ... I've taken the time to try and figure out what it is he's saying, and am dumbfounded, and want to relay it to the world in a way that people can grasp. Wading through all of John's chapters is truly a 'Herculean' affair, excuse the pun.

Again, not a criticism, I'm REALLY interested in this, but am struggling. I'm remarking on your comment above which is more revealing than you know, and I'm sure you didn't realize it, that's the whole point, about the 18th dynasty.

Anyway, you've sparked my interest in Cyrus the Great ... I'm searching for how he affected the world and how he fits into the overall picture. I made a post on my own site about Cyrus which I lost, unfortunately, when my site went down. I'll have to re-constitute that.

Thanks for the many posts.

[elreb]

Mainstream education is like a Parrot that can imitate human speech or other sounds but not necessarily associating words with their meanings.

This puts us back to that “Conundrum” word, where logical postulations “evade” resolution…

By throwing an extra 1000 years into history, the Parrot creates a vacuum of missing information. In order to satisfy this riddle…you just make stuff up and sell it like chicken manure.

Per-Zeus, we have agreed…is the House of Zeus and Amun…at least in Egypt is Zeus. The 18th dynasty was the dynasty of the Amunhoteps. When correctly dated from 800 to 500 BC, you have the Persian Period.

There was no 19th dynasty and what came next were the Greeks, then the Romans.

(IMG:http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/parrot.gif)

This post has been edited by elreb: Nov 10 2010, 01:16 PM

[elreb]

elreb, I've said it before, your posts tend to be a little bit cryptic to those of us laymen.

What I find interesting is that I’m not trying to be cryptic.

I call it “Under drive”, as in…slower than stock…to help folks catch up to reality.

I must admit thou…that I am the only person…so far…that solved the problem…

(IMG:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WsE6M_RjBIY/SfkvSIQrn8I/AAAAAAAAVBs/u-RbD8mVBDE/s400/mummy.jpg) "It's Science"

[elreb]

Anyway, you've sparked my interest in Cyrus the Great ... I'm searching for how he affected the world and how he fits into the overall picture. I made a post on my own site about Cyrus which I lost, unfortunately, when my site went down. I'll have to re-constitute that.

The “Real” Jesus

But Cyrus, finding the nations in Asia also independent in exactly the same way, started out with a little band of Persians and became the leader of the Medes by their full consent and of the Hyrcanians by theirs; he then conquered Syria, Assyria, Arabia, Cappadocia, both Phrygias, Lydia, Caria, Phoenicia, and Babylonia; he ruled also over Bactria, India, and Cilicia; and he was likewise king of the Sacians, Paphlagonians, Magadidae, and very many other nations, of which one could not even tell the names; he brought under his sway the Asiatic Greeks also; and, descending to the sea, he added both Cyprus and Egypt to his empire. [AND EGYPT]

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/xenopho...ophon_book1.php

(IMG:http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/2008/12/zarathustra2.jpg) (IMG:http://welshwilderness.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/jesus-south-park-jpg.jpeg) Cyrus the Great

[Sanders]

What, you're saying that Cyrus was Jesus?

[elreb]

What, you're saying that Cyrus was Jesus?

Yes I am…and certified in the bible…

All the hype comes from Isaiah and his Immanuel… Christian belief holds that Emmanuel is Jesus, and the Messiah foretold in the other prophecies of Isaiah…is really Cyrus the Great…

Perseus was the son of Zeus born of a Virgin…Zeus came to her in the form of a shower of gold, and impregnated her…

Perseus could perform magic to…

Read Xenophon...

This post has been edited by elreb: Nov 14 2010, 06:06 PM