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According To Bts Flights 11 And 77 Never Existed

Diogenes
post Sep 28 2010, 08:21 PM
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Hi, has anyone else found this?

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/aa_flts.htm

apparently the BTS changed its records for flight 11 and 77, originally there was no record for these flights. After this was exposed, the BTS changed the record and now states the tail numbers for the flights are unknown.

the web pages showing the original record and the modified one are contained in the zip file on that web site

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/bts.zip

QUOTE
So according to this information Flights AA 11 and AA 77 were scheduled on September 11. One might wonder, however, why there are no tail numbers for the scheduled flights. If planes were assigned to those flights then the tail numbers would be known in advance of September 11, but the tail numbers are listed as "unknown". And if those flights actually occurred, why are the entries for actual departure time given as "0:00"?

But, more importantly, this information is not what was originally given on the BTS website. Up until sometime in 2004 queries to the BTS database returned different information. The results of these queries were reported by Gerard Holmgren in November 2003 here (and later updated here).

Others who read his report saved the relevant BTS pages directly from the BTS website.


QUOTE
Thus for September 11, 2001, and for Flights UA 93 and UA 175, the destination, tail number and departure time are the same as that given above. But for Flights AA 11 and AA 77 the situation is totally different — these flights are not scheduled at all. The implication is that Flights AA 11 and AA 77 did not exist on September 11, 2001.


QUOTE
Thus the records for the diversion (alleged hijacking) of UA 93 and UA 175 were removed from the BTS database. This was presumably done to disguise the fact that although, in the original database, there were records for the diversion of UA 93 and UA 175, there were none for the diversion of AA 11 and AA 77. The reason why there were no records for the diversion of AA 11 and AA 77 is that these flights did not exist.


QUOTE
Go to this page on the BTS website:

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatis...mmaryFlightData

and select "United Airlines", flight number "0093" and the date range September 10th to 11th, 2001. A page appears which gives data for UA 93 on September 10th, but above this is a note:

On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.

But this note was added sometime after November 2003. Before that the same query (but for September 11, 2001, only) produced the page shown here.

In the original BTS database similar queries returned the following pages for UA 93, AA 11 and AA 77. Thus the summary on-time statistics (over any specified time period) for the four flight numbers differ in the current version of the BTS database from the version which existed until sometime in 2004 in this respect: In the original version that summary included data for UA 93 and UA 175 on September 11, 2001, whereas data on AA 11 and AA 77 is explicitly stated to be non-existent. But in the current version, data for all four flights on September 11, 2001, is excluded. This change was made presumably to disguise the fact that Flights AA 11 and AA 77 did not exist on September 11, 2001.


some of the links on the website have had their address changed. But you can easily find the right one by simply searching the link in Google. For example the page links this http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa_flts/bts/ua93summary.htm which is broken. But if you paste that into Google, you will find the correct one http://lege.net/blog.lege.net/serendipity....ua93summary.htm
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woody
post Sep 30 2010, 01:43 PM
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Diogenes!

You just joined the pilots forum and made your first post. People here get suspicious if someone dedicates his first post to a dubious researcher. Maybe you don't know who Gerard Holmgren was (he has passed away). Holmgren was a frontman of the no-planers, the guys who claim that the WTC was not hit by any planes at all, that the planes were holograms or video-faked ot whatever. Holmgren was also notorious for attacking people who didn't share his views.

If Holmgren has done any good to the movement, it's the detection of the BTS database in 2003. But from the very first moment, he draw false, even absurd conclusions - that "Flight 11 and Flight 77 didn't exist" because they are not listed in the database, for instance. This is an incorrect conclusion. The missing BTS data show only that Flight 11 and Flight 77 didn't send departure data to their airline via the ACARS system, that's why the airline couldn't forward these data to the BTS. This is odd, okay, but it in no way justifies the claim that the flights didn't "exist".

A few months after Holmgren's findings, I published my first article, "Flight 11 - The Twin Flight",

http://911wideopen.com/mirror/twin11-1/twin-11-mod.htm

where I showed up plenty of discrepancies regarding Flight 11's departure gate and established the thesis that TWO Flight 11 existed at Boston: one at gate 32, the other one at gate 26. Holmgren was furious, and together with his mate webfairy he accused me of spreading nonsense. He managed to convince my then publisher Nico Haupt that I was a "disinformation agent". This was the end of my working relationship with Haupt and the researcher website team8plus.org.

About two weeks ago, I've published additional evidence about the duplicated Flight 11, also here on this forum. Now you join the forum and present ancient and obsolete topics
like "Flight 11 didn't exist". This looks like a reaction to my post. Is it?
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Diogenes
post Oct 1 2010, 02:37 PM
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Woody, it seems you have missed the significance of the information that has been found

1. the missing BTS data is not just a lack of departure data. ORIGINALLY, the BTS had NO RECORD OF THESE FLIGHTS (11 and 77) existing at all. The pages for these flights brought about an 'error' screen on their website indicating that there was NO RECORD for these flights.

2. there are no tail numbers for these two scheduled flights. This is not a lack of departure data. If these flights existed the tail numbers would be known before they occurred and would be displayed would it not?

3. the other significant point is that the BTS, CHANGED the information they presented about these flights.

ORIGINALLY, Flights 11 and 77 are NOT SCHEDULED AT ALL, and no record existed.

THEN, after this was pointed out, records for the diversion of 93 and 175 were removed, even though ORIGINALLY, diversion records for both these flights existed. This was apparently done to disguise the fact that there was no diversion record, and no record at all of 11 and 77.

4. the BTS gives this note: On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.

however, this is NOT what was originally shown for the on-time summary of 93 and 175.

originally, the summary included data for 93 and 175, whereas data for 11 and 77 was explicitly stated as 'non-existent.' But, IN THE CURRENT VERSION, data for ALL FOUR FLIGHTS is removed.

these significant changes and omissions by the BTS are what gives away their bluff Woody. This isn't simply a lack of departure data, which is also suspicious.

why was there originally no record of the existence of flights 11 and 77? Why were the tail numbers of these two flights "unknown"?
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woody
post Oct 2 2010, 02:21 PM
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Careful, Diogenes.

If the BTS has no record for Flight 11, this means it has received no data from American Airlines (the data are transferred from the airlines to the BTS on a regular base, monthly or so).

If American Airlines has received no data from the plane (in this case N334AA) via ACARS, this means that N334AA hasn't transmitted data to American Airlines, which it should have done.

The fact that N334AA didn't send departure data to AA doesn't mean it didn't take off. It did take off, we have a radio transcript, witnesses, etc.etc. But obviously the pilot of N344AA hasn't activated the ACARS system.

Of course - the lacking BTS data are odd. It is also odd that the BTS corrected the database afterwards.

But the conclusion "Flight 11 didn't exist!" or "Flight 11 didn't take off!" is way too far. We have evidence the flight existed, we have evidence the flight took off.

What we don't have, is evidence that the flight had his ACARS system activated. Why didn't he have his ACARS system activated? This is what we have to ask for.
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amazed!
post Oct 3 2010, 04:43 PM
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Good posts guys. The plot thickens..... whistle.gif
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ogrady
post Oct 5 2010, 10:00 AM
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What exactly is that 'evidence' again that 11 and 77 existed and took off?
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vimana
post Oct 5 2010, 05:28 PM
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...edacted-Version

This report T7-B20 timeline is very interesting. I found that flight 5073 which is an American Eagle flight that is unaccounted for at 10:15.(Page 5) This was a flight from JFK to CLE that left the gate before 8am that morning 8:25 wheels off.(BTS) Apparently it was diverted. I could not find the FAA number that would match this flight, entered N339AE from MQ still did not register. I could not find any pictures of this aircraft but did find two bird strike reports one Here:
Date: 2001-10-28, Time: Day, Sky: No Cloud, Precipation: None, Operator: American Eagle Airlines, Aircraft: SAAB-340 (Airplane), Mass: 5,701 - 27,000 kg, Engines: 2, Power Type: Turboprop, Registration: N339AE, Remains Collected: No, Runway: 29, Above Ground: 50 ft, Phase of Flight: Climb, Birds Seen: 2-10, Birds Struck: 2-10, Species: BIRD - SMALL, Size: Small, Strikes/Damages: Struck windshield, Struck nose, Struck Engine 2, Struck Propeller, Struck Wing or Rotor, Struck Fuselage, Effect On Flight: None, Report Type: FAA Form 5200-7 source:
http://www.city-data.com/wildlife/Portland...land-Maine.html

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/wildlife/Portland...l#ixzz11WeRowI7
Also another bird strike from the same plane at DFW in 2002.
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vimana
post Oct 5 2010, 05:59 PM
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I don't know if I should open up a whole new topic or not?

But I also want to add that according to the AA SOCC logs on page 4 here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...dacted-Version- mentions no codeshare on 11, but if you read this http://www.scribd.com/doc/15121435/FO-B4-C...eptember-11-166 It mentions that Atta purchased his tickets thru the AA website-in a codeshare with US Air/Colgan AA SOCC logs do mention at a later time that there is a codeshare with Qantas.

Also the pilots and crew for flight 77 read DCA location isn't that Reagan airport? (SOCC log)
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woody
post Oct 7 2010, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (ogrady @ Oct 5 2010, 03:00 PM) *
What exactly is that 'evidence' again that 11 and 77 existed and took off?


Here's the radio transcript between Boston Tower and Flight 11, beginning with the gate departure:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/16/national...T-FLIGHT11.html

For Flight 77, there exists a transcript, too. But I'm too lazy to search it. Google is your friend.
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Paul
post Nov 10 2010, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (woody @ Oct 8 2010, 04:45 AM) *
Here's the radio transcript between Boston Tower and Flight 11, beginning with the gate departure:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/16/national...T-FLIGHT11.html

For Flight 77, there exists a transcript, too. But I'm too lazy to search it. Google is your friend.


Can anyone tell me what direction the wind was blowing from on 911?
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SanderO
post Nov 10 2010, 08:46 PM
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In lower Manhattan at the time of the event it was NW at 10-15 and likely higher aloft.
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Paul
post Nov 18 2010, 03:20 AM
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QUOTE (SanderO @ Nov 11 2010, 11:16 AM) *
In lower Manhattan at the time of the event it was NW at 10-15 and likely higher aloft.


911 Loud noise near WTC Towers basement - WABC Dub1 75.avi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQr6-Uj2uGY...feature=related

This a very interesting video that has is obviously new and seems to be one of the released video's from the NIST cumulus database

Look towards the end of the video when the cop is telling the camera man to get back all you can hear is "boom then another two seconds
"boom" it appears as though the explosions are causing the ground to vibrate i wonder how close the collapse these explosions are occuring.
I wonder if the cop is telling this guy to get back because he feels as though theses explosions could cause some danger, maybe he
thinks that the explosions might cause the building to collapse, i am very curious as to what could be causing these explosions apart from the
obvious theory, they could be the result of bombs or explosive charges being detonated they certainly seem loud enough to fit the noise criteria
they must be powerful explosions whatever mechanism is causing them becasue they are causing the ground to vibrate you can hear it.
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amazed!
post Nov 18 2010, 09:58 PM
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What I wonder is if the airplane that departed BOS, assuming AA11 actually did depart there, was the same airplane that struck the tower?
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bobcat46
post Nov 22 2010, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Nov 17 2010, 12:58 AM) *
What I wonder is if the airplane that departed BOS, assuming AA11 actually did depart there, was the same airplane that struck the tower?



I seriously doubt that either plane that struck the twin towers that day are the original planes that they say struck the towers. Too perfect and too precise to be flown by student pilots. For me to doubt the whole big story of what happened on 9/11, I have not had to go into minuta. Just looking at the big picture, it doesn't add up and I have felt tht way since late in the afternoon on 9/11/2001. I don't need any more proof or evidence...my mind is solidly made up. America got a royal screwing and it wasn't from Al Queda.

pilotfly.gif
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amazed!
post Nov 23 2010, 02:16 PM
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Good to see you back Bobcat! salute.gif
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Diogenes
post Jan 28 2011, 02:00 PM
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soo, if flights 11 and 77 did exist, why were they not scheduled on BTS? why did BTS have no tail number on them? Is this a common thing, to have major airlines with scheduled flights and tail numbers missing in BTS records????? How odd that specifically 11 and 77 weren't scheduled, and how odd that BTS changed their records after being notified?

and that NY times article, where did they get that radio transcript from? NY Times is a CIA psy op and has forged evidence and made up false stories plenty of times in service of the American government for WW2, so why should we trust them?

and if there was a real 77 and 11, what happened to them if they didn't land in the pentagon or shanksville?

Finally, we now have proof that there are ACTORS right now hired to pretend to be the relatives of phony victims for these flights, and phony victims of the WTC. Here is evidence proving that these victims are fake and their pictures actually engineered and cropped multiple times for different persons. The stories of these passengers do not stand up to scrutiny and no proof exists of their existence.

http://septemberclues.info/vicsims.htm

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=246

the "9/11 memorial" has been proven to be a desperate scam with no authenticity of said "victims". http://septemberclues.info/vicsims_photo-analyses.htm

people just believed the cries of these known shill actors who previously have worked in the acting/entertainment industries and currently are connected to government agencies. Upon inspection of their testimonies, their stories are contradictory and the images of the victims themselves are forged with face morphing technology, which the public is quite unfamiliar with. This is a massive psy op operation that did not require much consistency as people are so gullible to believe such lies.
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elreb
post Jan 28 2011, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE
elreb Jan 8 2008, 09:21 PM
I can not seem to find N644AA (Pentagon) anywhere!

I checked 300 airports on September 08, 09, 10, 11 on 2001 and I just can not find this plane anywhere.

I even checked Aviation Photos showing the plane at BOS on 07 August 2001 but checking BTS records doesn’t show the plane being there anytime during the entire month. How could this happen?

As a test, I checked N334AA (North Tower) which is seen leaving BOS on 10 September 2001 as flight 0197 to SFO and leaving SFO as flight 0198 at 10.04 pm for BOS. Problem it is never seen as arriving at nor taking off from BOS on 911.

As a backup test, I checked N321AA which departed BOS as flight 0011 on 10 September 2001 to LAX and returned to BOS as flight 0012 by 9:30 pm that same day. On 911 N321AA took off at 7:39 am as flight 1547 to MCO and does in fact land in Orlando, Florida by 10:16 am. Wow…2 hours 37 minutes!


In fact, I could not find this plane anywhere for over 4 months...Sorry that I mentioned 0077 on this thread…

One day or one flight might be an over site but months is a problem…


This post has been edited by elreb: Jan 28 2011, 03:56 PM
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phaeton666
post Jan 29 2011, 06:41 AM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 26 2011, 06:47 PM) *
In fact, I could not find this plane anywhere for over 4 months...Sorry that I mentioned 0077 on this thread…

One day or one flight might be an over site but months is a problem…

See post AA77 and following for the strange numbering of AA flights in the BTS database as well as the last few flights of AA77.
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elreb
post Jan 29 2011, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE (phaeton666 @ Jan 29 2011, 01:41 AM) *
See post AA77 and following for the strange numbering of AA flights in the BTS database as well as the last few flights of AA77.

This sounds like pure baloney…

could someone provide documentation showing “5BP” was actually #24602…

N644AA / 5BP (# 24602/365) this a/c operated flight AA77 IAD-LAX on Sep.11, 2001. It was hijacked and deliberately crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington, D.C. This event was the third in a series of orchestrated terrorist attacks on 9/11…
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phaeton666
post Jan 30 2011, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 28 2011, 12:56 AM) *
This sounds like pure baloney…

could someone provide documentation showing “5BP” was actually #24602…

N644AA / 5BP (# 24602/365) this a/c operated flight AA77 IAD-LAX on Sep.11, 2001. It was hijacked and deliberately crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington, D.C. This event was the third in a series of orchestrated terrorist attacks on 9/11…

Please, not everything sounding like baloney, is...

See for example AA fleet numbers for a list. It is no longer updated, but was current in 2001.
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