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Pilot Skill Needed For Pentagon Mission

harleypilot
post Jun 27 2007, 09:37 PM
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I'm new here so forgive me if this topic has been previously discussed. I assume someone has brought up the difficulty of the task of flying a 75 into a target the size and altitude at which the pentagon sits. I am a pilot (corporate) and would think it difficult for even a seasoned Captain to takeover a 75 while airborne, not knowing his exact location, under a great amount of stress, having no "real" time in a 75, find and hit a target that low at that speed on the first try. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but knowledge of aviation leaves some doubt as to a very low-time pilot accomplishing this. I can only assume that if the plane did in fact impact the building, that a very experienced pilot was at the controls. That being said, what I have read, the "pilots", for the most part, had only very limited sim time and zero hours in the real Mccoy. Has this been discussed and what are some thoughts on this?
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Guinan
post Jun 27 2007, 10:42 PM
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Hi Harleypilot!!



to the forum !

Take a good look in the section 'Location/Pentagon', I'm sure many of your questions will be answered there, you bein' a pilot an' all (which I'm not...).

If not, there are always people here to answer any questions you may have, to the best of our abillities. We don't have all the answers, only the 'people' who carried this off have those.

Guinan
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harleypilot
post Jun 27 2007, 10:46 PM
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Thanks for your help.
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grizz
post Jun 27 2007, 11:01 PM
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Your question has been discussed at great length. The official government story claims that AA77 was piloted by Hani Hanjour.
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Sanders
post Jun 27 2007, 11:14 PM
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Thank you for your post, harleypilot welcome.gif

I am not a pilot, so please take what I post with a grain of salt.

Yes, I've heard many pilots express their surprise that an inexperienced pilot (his instructor said he doubted if Hani could even drive a car) could have found the Pentagon and carried off that maneuver in a 757. Still, it cannot be said to be "impossible". He could've gotten lucky - albeit very lucky indeed.

However, practically every aspect of the 9/11 attacks has been shown to having had a very low probablility of occurence, or in some cases impossibility of occurence. The molten metal found pooled beneath the rubble of the World Trade buildings for example was ignored in the investigative reports - most likely because it cannot be explained if couched in the official theory. Open air fires simply can't account for molten metal (actually it appears, from Steven Jones' research, that it was molten iron, a by product of the Thermite/Thermate reaction). The examples extend from the collapse of building 7 to alleged cell phone calls from high altitude to the low probability that hijacked airliners could fly around for over an hour in the North East corridor without being intercepted by fighter jets... The whole thing, including the flight of Hani Hanjour, is so difficult to believe - (but it is still believed by many, because the alternative is so disturbing).

Welcome to the forum
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painter
post Jun 28 2007, 02:40 AM
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Welcome, harleypilot. If you are new to the questions surrounding 9/11, you may want to listen to this interview by Rob Balsamo, the co-founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, and Lt. Col. Jeff Latas here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1...546809825&hl=en

Needless to say, unlike many other forums you may be used to, on this one the notion that Hani Hanjur was piloting Flight 77 seems nothing short of incredible in the true sense -- not believable. I don't think any of us know the full truth about what happened on 9/11 but it has become increasingly clear to those of us here who have looked into the various nooks and cranies of investigation that much, if not most, of what we've been led to believe is true about 9/11, isn't. But everyone has to come to that conclusion, if they ever do, on their own time and in their own way. As indicated by Sanders above, the question of Hani Hanjur's piloting skills is only one of many.
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rob balsamo
post Jun 28 2007, 06:30 AM
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Welcome to the forum Harleypilot...

I used to own a harley myself, 2003 Fatboy.. loved it!

Email me if you would like to join our ranks at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

Rob Balsamo
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Carl Bank
post Jun 28 2007, 06:41 AM
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QUOTE (johndoeX @ Jun 28 2007, 12:30 PM)
I used to own a harley myself, 2003 Fatboy.. loved it!

Welcome to the forum from me as well, Harleypilot!

I used to own a 1943 Knucklehead from WWII, I found in some
Berlin Junkyard back in '93 - couldn't get it to run... but remember
that wicked shiftstick on the left side of the bike (shifting while
driving one-handed... crazy americans...)


nice to meet you!

Carl
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Cary
post Jun 28 2007, 09:29 AM
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Welcome to the forum harleypilot.
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amazed!
post Jun 28 2007, 03:40 PM
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harley

Welcome to the club! And if you study the "official" maneuver the guy made--overhead at about 7000 feet, then one perfect spiral down with a vertical component exceeding 4000 FPM, then it is even all the more unlikely.

That maneuver in a Pitts or an Extra 300 might work out, but not in a Boeing, first time out. It's impossible.
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rob balsamo
post Jun 28 2007, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Jun 28 2007, 03:40 PM)
That maneuver in a Pitts or an Extra 300 might work out, but not in a Boeing, first time out. It's impossible.

Actually.. according to information provided by the NTSB.. it is possible in a 757... its graceful and uneventful.. an actual "sight-seeing tour" of Wash DC.

The real question is...

How did a man (Hani) who had zero time in type (757) and could not fly a 172 nor did he know what the instruments were there to do, was able to perform such a graceful sight-seeing tour of Washington DC in Class Bravo Airspace after two towers were hit in NYC.. without being intercepted?

And for those who wish to use the "incompetence card"... stick it.. i dont buy it. Nor do many other fighter pilots.
(thank my dad for my above attitude about those who use excuse).
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amazed!
post Jun 28 2007, 09:55 PM
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Rob

I didn't say it was impossible, I said it would have been most difficult.

That Lady Luck was riding with Hani we are led to believe.

Hani was not on board.
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weedwhacker
post Sep 12 2007, 10:33 PM
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These a-holes studied Boeing manuals. They knew how to enter airport codes (ie, KJFK, KIAD, KDCA into the CDUs (two of them, one for each pilot) in the cockpit, right there in the center console of both the 757 AND the 767. Same type rating for both airplanes. Have any of you ever used a computer? Well, then you can access the CDU, with sufficient training, if you know what to type in. You enter the waypoint ( KJFK = Kennedy. KIAD = Dulles. KDCA = National) Waypoints are either four digits, if an airport, or five digits, if an intersection...waypoints can also be one letter, or two letters, whatever is in the database of the CDU will accept. IF there are multiples, or duplicates, it prompts you to note the LAT/LONG.

Why anyone would be an apologist for these assholes is beyond me.
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weedwhacker
post Sep 12 2007, 10:43 PM
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After you type in a destination on the CDU and push execute, a path shows up on the EFIS (Eletronic Flight Information Screen). For you other pilots out there, it's the equivalent of your DG. The Attitude is on the screen above, airspeed indicator to your left, upper, VS lower right. Normal 'classic T' arangement. If you're instrument rated, you know what I mean.
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rob balsamo
post Sep 12 2007, 11:10 PM
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Welcome 767Captain.. let us educate you to your ignorance...

Did you know Hani was the 'most experienced" out of all the 'hijackers" and was refused to rent a 172?

Did you know Hani could not speak the english language and when he went for training at JetTech, the flight school manager called the FAA 5 times to 709 check this man? Only for the FAA Inspector to turn around and tell the Flight School Manager Peggy Cheverette to hire a "translator to help him through training"?

Did you know that this same "pilot" reportedly had his Commercial, Instrument, Multi, but could not order a ticket in English at the counter at IAD? How did he pass his writtens? Orals? (if you would also like me to quote CFI's who said Hani hadnt a clue what the instruments were there for.. let me know... ). You think someone who was refused to rent a 172 cause he couldnt control it knew how to work the 757 FGC and FMS? Denial comes to mind.

767Captain.. how often do your FO's hold your hand?Im guessing plenty...

767Captain.. you wouldnt care to tell us what airline you're with. .would you?

Would you give up your seat and walk to the back of your ship with someone pointing a break-away-blade boxcutter at you prior to 9/11?

Feel free to email me at pilots(at)pilotsfor911truth.org if you would like my phone number. We would be interested in your interview making excuses for a govt known for lies and corruption aside from behind your computer screen...

Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
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Cary
post Sep 13 2007, 11:22 AM
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OUCH! 767 Capt., that had to hurt.

Good one Rob.
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AlphaEcho
post Nov 12 2008, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (767Captain @ Sep 13 2007, 03:43 AM) *
After you type in a destination on the CDU and push execute, a path shows up on the EFIS (Eletronic Flight Information Screen). For you other pilots out there, it's the equivalent of your DG. The Attitude is on the screen above, airspeed indicator to your left, upper, VS lower right. Normal 'classic T' arangement. If you're instrument rated, you know what I mean.


767captain, your posts are from some time ago- so I hope I hope youre still around occassionally.

I assume your login name implies your real life profession, so we happen to sit in front of the (almost) identical MCP-Panel, Flight Management CDUs and EFIS screens every working day (Im on the 744) . Although on different sides of the center pedestal, that is.

Therefore, Id like to invite you for a mature discussion of the operational/procedural steps required for taking Flight 77 all the way from cruising level into the pentagon. Just click here. Somehow, I have a feeling that this ought to be interesting to analyse...
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rob balsamo
post Nov 12 2008, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE (Turbofan @ Nov 12 2008, 09:31 PM) *
Damn, I can put on a band-aid to stop bleeding but you don't see me doing open heart surgery. laughing1.gif


Keep in mind.. To perform "Open Heart Surgery" doesnt require the surgeon to undergo a physical every six months to make sure he is of sound mind and body to perform such surgery, nor is the "Surgeon" required to go through a "Surgery Simulator" test every six months to keep his job.

Flying a 767/757 with such "precision"... does.
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GroundPounder
post Nov 13 2008, 11:05 AM
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now wait a minute, i landed a p51 in combat flight simulator probably 75% of the time. are you saying i couldn't land the real thing haviing never flown a real one? wink.gif


edit: that is why i love the line: 'in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is'

This post has been edited by GroundPounder: Nov 13 2008, 11:08 AM
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JCLoophole
post Apr 2 2009, 12:58 PM
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I don't mean to "pile on" (okay, maybe I do!) but one thing that sticks out in my mind about the Pentagon attack is the final descending 330 deg turn to the target allegedly performed by the hi-jackers who couldn't even control a Cessna 172.

Most accounts make it out to be a turn to the right. This means that 1) the aircraft is turning away from the target and 2) assuming the hijacker is sitting in the pilot's seat, he would be unable to see his target until the last few seconds of the turn. And yet, we are expected to believe that he did the manuver flawlessly (not overshooting or undershooting his target in the turn) and without flying into the ground short of his target (as I did several times while attempting to duplicate this attack in FS2002 and FS2004).

JC
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