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9/11: John Lear - Disinformation? Cia Operative?

lunk
post Jun 8 2010, 10:48 PM
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UFO's, could also be life forms,
rather than crafts, perhaps,
existing at a different scale than us,
like some sort of evolved moth,
flitting from star to star...

Most of the vehicles we build, reflect the known lifeforms around us.

The caterpillar, for instance...
or we could get into car names...

...it makes me wonder where the idea for the farm auger came from...
some farmer, or possibly a biologist...
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elreb
post Jun 9 2010, 12:13 AM
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Lunk,

We are really “not” divided on this issue.

It’s hard to say how many people are outside the “Brainwashing box”!

A safe number is 45% and within in that only 2% know what is really going on.

The moth “flitting” from Star to Star is “You”.

We are controlled by wealth & power because where there is power there is control.

Our families are being “stomped” into the ground by a power that has no regard for human life.

Welcome to the “US” government.

Disclaimer: The “US” government is not America.

We must lay the ground work to bring "Intelligence" to the Earth people.
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elreb
post Jun 9 2010, 03:53 PM
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Just got my copy of “Gravitational Force of the Sun” and have glossed over most of it.

I would recommend it all freethinkers.

I was also reading the critics like David Pratt and Paulo Correa.

Be strong Pari…keep up the fight.

Thanks for the heads up John
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tnemelckram
post Jun 9 2010, 05:10 PM
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Hi Lunk!

QUOTE
UFO's, could also be life forms, rather than crafts, perhaps, existing at a different scale than us, . . .


I agree that's possible. What you are saying is that the flying body itself, and not things the flying body is designed and intended to convey, is the life form. Hell. look at all of the talk about us approaching a Technological Singularity even with our own computer technology and artificial intelligence. We are based on carbon, why couldn't another life form be based on silicon, or something else?

Although for all the reasons stated above, I would have to say that if you want to call them UFO's, these are most likely best classified as Unseen Flying Objects or Unperceived Flying Objects, not as Unidentified Flying Objects or Undisclosed Flying Objects.
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Tamborine man
post Jun 10 2010, 04:51 AM
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Perhaps the time has come to throw some Light on this subject!

The Earth is the ONLY planet in the universe, in our 3-dimensional
world, that is occupied with intelligent life.

Every human being survives 'death', and returns to his or her abode
in the 4-dimensional 'transcendental' world.

Six spheres or habitats exist around the Earth (bordered within the
orbit of the moon), which is the home to all mankind who are still
subject to reincarnations.

".......
The transcendental dwelling places are as visible and material to spiritual beings as everything on Earth is to humans. The higher the spirits advance in their struggle out of Darkness, the more rapid will be the ether-vibrations that produce the material from which these, their limited worlds, are formed. The more distant are the dwelling places from the Earth, the brighter, the more splendid, the more harmonious everything becomes—dwellings and nature alike, such as seas, rivers, lakes, lands, flowers, etc. As long as the spirit stays in the sphere it has reached by purification through its reincarnations—that is, earthly rebirths—its body moves about just as one moves about on Earth, that is, by walking, running, etc. However, the movements of the released spirit are quicker and easier, just as the thought is more lucid and more precise than when the spirit is bound to the heavy earthly body that imposes so many restrictions upon it.

Methods of transportation in the spheres are similar to those on Earth, but better, faster and more comfortable. All innovations and improvements that over time have been brought to humanity have first been tested in the spheres, before they have become a reality on Earth.

When the Youngest associate with inhabitants of the various Spheres and of the Earth and desire not to avail themselves of the Passage of Light, they exert the energy of their thought and will to transport their spirit-body by the ether that extends everywhere by virtue of the fourth dimension.

A further explanation of the fourth dimension cannot be given, because man as yet lacks the basis for an understanding of this concept.

The higher spheres are invisible to the inhabitants of the lower ones. The lower spheres are partly invisible to the inhabitants of the higher, and even the Youngest have only a moderately clear view of them, when, borne by the vibrations of the ether, they move from sphere to sphere, or from place to place within the different spheres.

The inhabitants of the lower spheres cannot on their own, either by thought and will or by the Passage of Light, ascend to worlds above their own sphere. They can descend only to the Earth31 or to the lower spheres in between, and only through the Passage of Light. However, within their home-sphere and the sphere of the Earth, they are able to move about by thought and will, but to a limited extent. They are thus unable to penetrate strong concentrations of Light or ethereal Light-radiations.

God’s Servants and the Youngest can move about everywhere by the power of their thought and will and therefore do not always use the Passage of Light. If they desire, they can even make their way through the Earth’s numerous accumulations of Darkness.

In the course of time, God has created a variety of animal figures for the enjoyment of human spirits, birds, horses, dogs, cats, etc.—so that they should not miss the purely earthly surroundings too much. However, these are not astral counterparts of earthly animals, but rather thought-forms not possessed of everlasting life. When the spheres have served their purpose as temporary habitations for the spirits, these animal figures, only temporarily contained in and by the Thought of God and therefore having no eternal life, will disappear. By the Will of God they are returned to the matter from which He fashioned them, dissolving and reverting to their original state—the Light-ether. But as long as the spheres exist, human spirits will always be able to find represented there the animals they most cherished during life on Earth. And since God creates these animal figures to conform exactly to their earthly prototypes, all will be able to find their favorite horse, dog, cat, bird, and so on.
......."

......."
As soon as particles escape human observation, they belong under the forms of the 4-dimensional world. But some forms are transitional between the three- and
four-dimensional worlds. The particles of these forms can be observed at one moment, but the next, they evade human observation. This depends on whether a
material or immaterial influence predominates at a given moment. Also, the presence of particles of other forms can be recognized but not perceived. These particles
then belong on the boundary between the three- and the four-dimensional worlds and deflect on either side of the boundary.
......."

The more astute, the more intelligent, the more evolved of the readers of this, is strongly encouraged to search further from the direction given here.
For this is but a snippet of further information available to the true and honest seeker of Truth.

So get rid of your fears, and move on, for heavens sake ....... and for your own sake too, of course!

If this happens, then we can go on to talk about the REAL Universe in the "Life after death" thread later on.... perhaps!

Cheers
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Tamborine man
post Jun 10 2010, 11:14 AM
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As a little afterthought, the following might be of some help
to people who cannot quite understand the previous post:


".......
Many will insist that, as one can plainly see, there cannot possibly exist inhabited worlds around the Earth, because they would obstruct the view of the luminous globes in outer space. Thus an analogy with earthly conditions will be given here that may make it easier to understand the presence of the spheres.

If one looks, for instance, into the clear, still water of a woodland pond one can distinctly see the plant and animal life therein, but one sees not the myriad life forms that teem in the water itself. Should a drop of the water then be examined under a microscope, an abundance of living organisms, a profusion of microscopic infusoria, is discovered whose existence would not otherwise be suspected. It is somewhat similar with the spheres, not perceivable by the physical organs of sight yet to the spiritual—the “enlarged” or strengthened—sight, easily discernible.
......."

Cheers
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tnemelckram
post Jun 10 2010, 07:34 PM
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Hi Tamborine Man!

QUOTE
The Earth is the ONLY planet in the universe, in our 3-dimensional world, that is occupied with intelligent life.
Every human being survives 'death', and returns to his or her abode in the 4-dimensional 'transcendental' world.


I'm not in a position to rule that out, but I note that our science already regards Time as the 4th dimension and I think the accuracy of that is pretty apparent to just about all lay people. You appear to need another dimension or two!
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elreb
post Jun 10 2010, 08:48 PM
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We have “Maui Wowie” here in the Islands and it is pretty good stuff but I need whatever “Tamborine Man” is smoking.

“Tnemelckram” is correct in stating that the 4th dimension is time. Pilots already know this!

The fifth dimension is beyond “Time” or timeless.

There is also a sixth & seventh dimension but if you don’t get the first 5, well you have no need for the rest.
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tnemelckram
post Jun 10 2010, 10:45 PM
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Hi El Reb and all!

QUOTE
The fifth dimension is beyond “Time” or timeless. There is also a sixth & seventh dimension but if you don’t get the first 5, well you have no need for the rest.


Here's a neat video that pretty clearly explains all ten of the dimensions that the quantum guys work with:

http://vodpod.com/watch/1367123-imagine-the-tenth-dimension
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Tamborine man
post Jun 11 2010, 07:46 AM
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QUOTE (tnemelckram @ Jun 9 2010, 12:45 AM) *
Hi El Reb and all!



Here's a neat video that pretty clearly explains all ten of the dimensions that the quantum guys work with:

http://vodpod.com/watch/1367123-imagine-the-tenth-dimension


Truly sorry to have to say this, but that video is rather primitive
in its explanation about dimensions.

"Dimensions" has absolutely nothing to do with "time" or silly lines,
but are solely determined by the various size of particles and their vibrations
(frequencies).

'Time' as we 'experience' it, together with 'the rhythm of time' is absolute
relative and can therefore not be used as reality. Only 'the sequence of
events' can be used in this regard.

Science has still a long way to go to catch up; as it should be remembered
they only deal with the forces and the powers of Darkness.

"Vibrations of Darkness covers an extremely long scale from the lowest to the
highest velocity, concentration and radiation that manifest themselves as
numerous immaterial and material forms, for example:
1) power, i.e., electricity, electromagnetism, steam power, and so forth;
2) ,radiation such as sunlight (the solar rays of the lower or lowest frequencies
originate from the Sun's core of Darkness), phosphorescent light, artificial light
(produced by electricity, gas, oil, etc.) heat, radioactivity, and so on;
3) matter and substance, besides many, many other forms still unknown."

The force and the power of Light is not yet investigated by science, so they are
still mistaken and in error about many important subjects, so don't take everything
they come up with as gospel truth ......please!

This subject has been touch upon over at the "Life after death" thread, where
also the true geometry of the great Pyramid has been revealed.

You and elreb are welcome to visit and try to debunk to your hearts delight,
but i think both of you will have a rather hard time doing so! wink.gif

On the other matter, let me just say to elreb that he certainly wouldn't be
disappointed! thumbsup.gif

cheers
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tnemelckram
post Jun 11 2010, 09:21 AM
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Hi Tamborine Man!

I agree the video is primitive. But that's the point, to show dummies like me what they mean when they talk about ten dimensions. The lines are just visual aids for that purpose, not a representation of how the particles behave in them, whether by vibrating or doing anything else.

I agree that time is best thought of as a sequence of events relative to these matters. Our standard conception of clock time shown by numbers should be disregarded because they are just artificial constructs that give us a common standard for measuring and using time. But purely sequential time is a particle dimension because the particles behave in sequences (vibration would be a to-fro sequence). I thought the video portrayed time only as a sequence of events without mentioning or depicting clock time.

As for the rest of your Post, I don't intend to debunk other peoples views on UFO's or the nature of reality, just state my views, the reasons for them, kick it around with other people, and learn something from what they say as well. I try to keep everyone's viewpoint open and on the table. There are several reasons for this:
1. I am not qualified to be a scientist so my views are not competent.
2. I don't fully understand the subject matter. That requires math, and I don't like math.
3. The explanations by the scientists for my views aren't satisfying and sometimes sound made up as they go along.
4. The scientists themselves say 3.
So I'm in no position to say that you or Mr. Lear are wrong. All I can do is give reasons why something else is more likely to be right. I probably slip into a debunking tone sometimes but its not my intent. I just like a good civil argument and when I start on ideas I just can't stop breaking them down into smaller bits and then reconnecting the bits my way.
.
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tnemelckram
post Jun 11 2010, 09:45 AM
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Andanuddating . . .I guess my bottom line on various scientific and other views of reality vis a vis UFO's..

All of the reports of UFO's describe things having appearances and behaviors that are consistent with the majority views of our scientists, cosmology or religious beliefs, and most importantly consistent with the conditions that enable us to exist, which is the four dimensional world we believe. Any minority or alternative views, even if correct, are still just another version of our science, cosmology or religion, and most importantly, still must be consistent with the conditions that enable us to exist. The UFO reports "are what they are" and can't change, so they will always be consistent with our reality even if minority or alternative views of reality prove to be the correct and replace current views.
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elreb
post Jun 11 2010, 12:38 PM
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Before I get started today I would like to point out that we must separate History from Science and Science from Religion and make an attempt to keep them on different pages.

Of course it may be too late as things are so jumbled up now.

There are two completely different types of light; “The light of Science and the Light of Religion”.

The following is where "Tamborine man" may seems to be.

It was once told that “Divine Light” was trapped in “Evil Matter” but freed itself by attaining “Special Knowledge” allowing itself to rejoin the true god living in the world of “Light”.

This world of light was “Enlightenment”.

Enlightenment was simply recognizing that evil matter was ignorance and that special knowledge was simply the “Knowledge of Truth” and the Wisdom of how to use that Knowledge.

To save one’s self from humanity’s present condition you need to use “your own inner efforts” and accept nothing unconditionally.

Churches, governments and private enterprises want you to believe in their “Evil Matter” as the primary source and legitimacy for their authority.
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elreb
post Jun 11 2010, 05:44 PM
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In one hand, I also see “Time” as being relative and man-made.

In the other hand I hold an Apple seed.

I plant the apparent 3D seed in the ground and water it, then its 4D tree time begins & its 3D seed time ends.

The 4D tree grows, produces Apples and dies. I cut up the Tree and make it into 3D furniture.

I eat the Apple and spit out the seeds into my 4D hand.

So you have the time of the person, the time of the seed, the time of the tree, the time of the apple and the time of the chair.

Is the “rest time” of the seed or the “rest time” of the chair considered as time?

Is the seed really dead or just dormant? Duration should be considered as a dimension.

This post has been edited by elreb: Jun 11 2010, 05:45 PM
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elreb
post Jun 12 2010, 10:22 PM
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Tnemelckram, Lunk, Tamborine man, Spolter...

If objects in space emit light, reflect light or absorb light...

How does one Star "act or react" to another Star's light?

Does it absorb it , reflect it, or something else?
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lunk
post Jun 13 2010, 12:25 AM
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...i hope we aren't scaring off johnlear,
with all these ideas.

They are quite "wild" by comparison to most of which we are told.

i do have a bit of a problem with reincarnation.

Reincarnation, has been used as an excuse for the demise of people.
Like in the notion that, they experienced this retribution,
because of something they did, in a "past life".

That's a pretty lame excuse for accidentally bombing civilians, for instance.

As most people have no recollection of any past life,
doesn't this imply that this excuse should not be used, or even thought of,
for justification of such an event?!

In my humble opinion.
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lunk
post Jun 13 2010, 12:30 AM
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Elreb,
if i shine two flashlights at each other,
what happens?

(edit) oops spelling.
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elreb
post Jun 13 2010, 12:45 PM
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Lunk,

Flash lights, light bulbs and headlights do not really work that well due to having glass lenses.

I do realize that concentrated light hitting each other at angles, as in spot lights, combine and intensify.

As to John, I don’t believe anything scares him.

If you go back to the beginning of the thread, you may notice that the spot lights have moved off the “target”.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a very open mind and enjoy the “challenge of learning” something new.

You got Apples and you got Lemons.

This post has been edited by elreb: Jun 13 2010, 12:47 PM
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Tamborine man
post Jun 14 2010, 12:40 AM
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QUOTE (tnemelckram @ Jun 9 2010, 11:21 AM) *
Hi Tamborine Man!

I agree the video is primitive. But that's the point, to show dummies like me what they mean when they talk about ten dimensions. The lines are just visual aids for that purpose, not a representation of how the particles behave in them, whether by vibrating or doing anything else.

I agree that time is best thought of as a sequence of events relative to these matters. Our standard conception of clock time shown by numbers should be disregarded because they are just artificial constructs that give us a common standard for measuring and using time. But purely sequential time is a particle dimension because the particles behave in sequences (vibration would be a to-fro sequence). I thought the video portrayed time only as a sequence of events without mentioning or depicting clock time.

As for the rest of your Post, I don't intend to debunk other peoples views on UFO's or the nature of reality, just state my views, the reasons for them, kick it around with other people, and learn something from what they say as well. I try to keep everyone's viewpoint open and on the table. There are several reasons for this:
1. I am not qualified to be a scientist so my views are not competent.
2. I don't fully understand the subject matter. That requires math, and I don't like math.
3. The explanations by the scientists for my views aren't satisfying and sometimes sound made up as they go along.
4. The scientists themselves say 3.
So I'm in no position to say that you or Mr. Lear are wrong. All I can do is give reasons why something else is more likely to be right. I probably slip into a debunking tone sometimes but its not my intent. I just like a good civil argument and when I start on ideas I just can't stop breaking them down into smaller bits and then reconnecting the bits my way.
.


Hi kram, (you can always call me 'tam' - saves time)

we are told that it take the rays from the Sun 8 minutes to reach Earth.
While you sit comfortably and count to 480, i sit here and type this to you.

You'll experience this exercise boring, tedious and exceedingly slow, as i on
the contrary will experience the same time frame totally and utterly the
opposite. For me 'the time' ceases to 'exist', but if i should become aware of
it, it would be only to find how amazingly quickly 'time' has 'disappeared'!

As humankind continue to evolve and progress, this discrepancy in the
perception of the 'concept of time' will accordingly grow wider and wider, so
as one day it will become necessary to be replaced with 'something' else,
(like f. ex. "time-periods") together with another understanding of this concept.

My 'debunk' comment was not to be taken too serious. Just my clumsy attempt
to lure you over to have a look at something you never have heard of before!

A propos:

1) You NOT being a scientist probably makes you more competent to comment,
as your mind would be more open and free.

2) No, it does NOT require math at all, just common sense, and it appears you got
plenty of that.

3) I must agree with that.

To feel that something sounds more 'right' than other things, require that one be
knowledgeable about ALL alternative views, before one can make up one's mind.
There's another 'view' you haven't heard of before on the 'Life after death' thread! wink.gif

Cheers
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Tamborine man
post Jun 14 2010, 01:53 AM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jun 9 2010, 07:44 PM) *
In one hand, I also see “Time” as being relative and man-made.

In the other hand I hold an Apple seed.

I plant the apparent 3D seed in the ground and water it, then its 4D tree time begins & its 3D seed time ends.

The 4D tree grows, produces Apples and dies. I cut up the Tree and make it into 3D furniture.

I eat the Apple and spit out the seeds into my 4D hand.

So you have the time of the person, the time of the seed, the time of the tree, the time of the apple and the time of the chair.

Is the “rest time” of the seed or the “rest time” of the chair considered as time?

Is the seed really dead or just dormant? Duration should be considered as a dimension.


Hi elreb,

yes, you're absolutely right, 'Light' and 'enlightenment' is certainly inviolably connected.

Just one little point.
The Light was never "trapped" in Darkness, in as much as the biggest particles constituting
the power of Light is much smaller than the smallest particles constituting the power of
Darkness.
Bear in mind that the larger or smaller the particles, the slower or faster are their vibrations
or oscillations; bu also, the smaller the particles the stronger and greater are their ability of
mutual attraction, cohesion and adhesion.
Therefore, the Light exist on a much higher dimension than that of Darkness.

Primal Darkness is therefore characterized by chaos, disorder and confusion, whereas
Primal Light is characterized by balance, order and harmony.


And the apple seed is a good example to describe the difference between 'dimensions',
for "inside" the apple seed is already the appearance of the fully grown apple, but
undetectable by the physical 3-dimensional naked eye.

The same applies to the human fertilized egg of course. Also in this, you'll find a 'picture'
or 'blueprint' of the appearance of the human body fully grown, and with latent
hereditary components from both the father, the mother and, in many cases, grandfather.
So the division of the ensuing cells will correspond in their growth exactly to the
predetermined 4-dimensional 'blueprint' to form a body in the 3-dimensional world.

'Life' could simply not exist without the 4-dimensional element.

If you f. ex. cut of a branch from a rose bush and want to graft it on to another
rose bush, then this have to take place within 20 minutes, before the 4- dimensional
'astral counterpart' separates itself from the cut-off branch, thereby render this finally
'death', with no change to ever be used for grafting again.
Its 'life vitality' is no longer present, and after a longer or shorter period the branch
will revert back to the same components and substance from which it was created in
the first instance.

cheers
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