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There's No Independent Verifiable Evidence For A Missile At The Pentagon, if you disagree please post evidence here

DoYouEverWonder
post Mar 2 2009, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (painter @ Mar 2 2009, 03:27 PM) *
thumbsup.gif

I'm with you but I think I have some inkling of what is going on here. You're talking about getting serious. See, the paid disinfo warriors and 9/11 perps don't give a sh*t so long as we stay at our desks arguing about crap. In fact, they encourage it. Woo hoo! It looks lie free speech and like we're doing something. Meanwhile, they get away with mass murder, treason, war crimes and crimes against humanity -- not to mention every other god damned thing they are doing we don't even have a clue about.

It's like the difference between playing a video game and actually getting out there in the trenches where it is life and death, kill or be killed. Right?

I agree. This isn't entertainment -- not anymore. This is serious business.

FWIW, I also think Andruil is seriously trying to help.


That's why I quit posting on DU's 9/11 Dungeon. It had become an incredible time waster and realized I could be doing real research instead. Another, reason why I try to stay out of forum battles, even though I don't always succeed.


What I'd like to know from the CIT guys is, what's the next step? How do we go from gathering evidence to prosecuting these criminals? We can't waste any more time hoping Congress will do something.

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Mar 2 2009, 04:46 PM
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Mar 2 2009, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Mar 2 2009, 09:46 PM) *
What I'd like to know from the CIT guys is, what's the next step? How do we go from gathering evidence to prosecuting these criminals? We can't waste any more time hoping Congress will do something.


You can deliver the evidence to media and authorities and keep following up for a response.

If we had thousands of people across the nation putting as much energy into this as we have to obtain the evidence I am very confident that we would see results.

We are in the process of compiling a media/authority friendly concise summary.

No music, no narration, no hyperbole....just a clinical presentation of the evidence.

It will be a resource available for free to everyone.

Give me another 30 days or so but I'll have it ready real soon.
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Sanders
post Mar 2 2009, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Mar 6 2009, 02:46 PM) *
What I'd like to know from the CIT guys is, what's the next step? How do we go from gathering evidence to prosecuting these criminals? We can't waste any more time hoping Congress will do something.


Maybe I shouldn't interrupt, but I think they are working on a succinct presentation of their work.

I empathize with you. Maybe everyone here should embark on a campaign to somehow get news of the P4T and CIT work into the mainstream media. Not that people haven't been trying, and not that there hasn't been some success. But most people simply have no idea what the pilots here and the guys with CIT have been doing, and what it means with regard to 9/11 and its broader meaning.

..................
EDIT: Craig and I cross-posted, I hadn't read his response when I typed that.

@Craig: good luck with that!!! cheers.gif thumbsup.gif
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painter
post Mar 2 2009, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Mar 2 2009, 12:46 PM) *
That's why I quit posting on DU's 9/11 Dungeon. It had become an incredible time waster and realized I could be doing real research instead. Another, reason why I try to stay out of forum battles, even though I don't always succeed.

What I'd like to know from the CIT guys is, what's the next step? How do we go from gathering evidence to prosecuting these criminals? We can't waste any more time hoping Congress will do something.


I agree. Besides contacting media and authorities I can think of a few other things:
  1. Donate money -- even small amounts -- to P4T and CIT
  2. Donate time or experience to P4T and CIT
  3. Make sure you clearly understand what P4T and CIT have established so you can talk about it intelligently
  4. Make contact with other individuals, truth groups and forums explaining what we have -- and when we have the succinct version from CIT make sure they get it and understand it
  5. Begin pushing the movement beyond speculation and toward full grasp of what we have already -- focus
  6. We need to build an alliance with people who are 'in the system' -- attorneys for 9/11 truth, for example


That's just off the top of my head.
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Anduril
post Mar 2 2009, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Mar 2 2009, 07:48 PM) *
Sorry Andruil but it honestly seems like you are going off on a completely irrelevant tangent to me.

You seem to not understand what I am saying as your interpretations have nothing to do with what I meant to convey.

You have quoted me out of context while not giving any indication that you have comprehended my overall point.

There is a serious lack of coherent communication going on between us so I prefer to leave it at that.


Craig:

Firstly, please desist from mis-spelling my cryptonym. Doing that carries an implication in 'the bizness', that the person so described is a 'spook.' If you don't know this in your line of work, (a) you should do, and (B) you certainly do now, right?

The problem-situation I'm addressing is that -- if we want people to take on board the fact that no Boeing jetliner hit the Pentagon on 9/11, the very next question people will ask is:

"Well, what _did_ cause the damage we see in the stills and sattellite photos and video?"

Hand-waving at this point, airily saying "I don't know what caused the damage, but it cannot have been a missile!" will NOT 'cut the mustard. Thinking people want some indications, some hypotheses, some evidence ine way or another.

The very first question is: "COULD a missile have caused (some of) the damage?"

You and I seem to be divergent on the nature, functions and objectives of 9/11 scientific research. I want to know -- as nearly as may be possible -- what actually happened in terms of matter, energy, space, time and forces. Science pursues the truth as an end in itself.

We DO Science.

------------------- * * * * * ---------------

Karl Popper on Science:

"... seen as the result of human endeavour, of human dreams,
hopes, passions, and most of all, as the result of the most
admirable union of creative imagination and rational critical
thought, I should like to write 'Science' with the biggest capital
'S' to be found in the printer's upper case.


Science is not only like art and literature, an adventure of the human
spirit, but it is among the creative arts perhaps the most human:
full of human failings and shortsightedness, it shows those
flashes of insight which open our eyes to the wonders of the world
and of the human spirit. But this is not all. Science is the
direct result of that most human of all human endeavours - to
liberate ourselves. It is part of our endeavour to see more
clearly, to understand the world and ourselves, and to act as
adult, responsible and enlightened beings.

'Enlightenment', Kant wrote, 'is the emancipation of man from
self-imposed tutelage . . . from a state of incapacity to use
his own intelligence without external guidance. Such a state
of tutelage I call "self-imposed" if it is due not to any lack
of intelligence but the lack of courage or determination to use
one's own intelligence instead of relying upon a leader.
*Sapere Aude!* Dare to use your own intelligence! This is the
maxim of the Enlightenment.' [ref. 6, Immanuel Kant, 'Was ist
Aufklarung?']


Kant challenges us to use our intelligence instead of relying upon a
leader, upon an authority. This should be taken as a challenge to
reject even the scientific expert as a leader, or even *science
itself* Science has no authority. It is not the magical product
of the given, the data, the observations. It is not a gospel of
truth. It is the result of our own endeavours and mistakes. It is
you and I who make science, as well as we can. It is you and I who
are responsible for it...


The nuclear bomb (and possibly also the so-called 'peaceful use of
atomic energy' whose consequences may be even worse in the long
run) have, I think, shown us the shallowness of the worship of
science as an 'instrument' of our 'command over nature' or the
'control of our physical environment': it has shown us that this
command, this control, is apt to be self-defeating, and apt to
enslave us rather than to make us free - if it does not do away
with us altogether.


And while knowledge is worth dying for, power is not. (Knowledge
is one of the few things that are worth dying for, together with
liberty, love, kindness, and helping those who are in need of help)."


by Karl R. Popper

from "Realism and the Aim of Science"

Volume I of "The Postscript to The Logic of Scientific Discovery"

Edited by William Warren Bartley, III, Senior Fellow, the Hoover
Institution on War, Revolution and Peace at Stanford.

Publ. Hutchinson, 1983, pb. 1985

Copyright Karl Raimund Popper 1956, 1983


Sir Karl Popper, F. R. S., held fourteen honorary Doctorates from
American, British, German, Austrian, New Zealand and Canadian
universites.

He was a member (or honorary member) of twelve academies, among them
the three oldest that still exist.

Works of his have been translated into over 30 languages.


But Sir Karl was never impressed by 'great reputations', least of
all his own...

------------------- * * * * * ---------------

I sincerely hope that this passage helps you to understan our differences.

You seem to want to act as a Prosecuting Attorney, finding the 'guilty' parties, bringing them before some kind of Tribunal, holding a trial od so,e sort, and arriving at a 'Final Conviction', following which verdict all the 'guilty parties' are punished in some way or other.

However, 9/11 Researches and investigations are being carried out by millions of people and hundreds of organizations worldwide, with the aim of discovering the truth, drawing appropriate cinclusions from that, and working to prevent it happening again, as far as may be possible.

"Who did what, and why did they do it?" will be a matter of unending speculations and differences of understanding and viewpoint. I don't seem to see you understanding it.

In the '60s, I worked hard to understand the causes, issues, strategies, tactics and outcomes of the First World War. I arrived at 18 divergent categories and accounts and conclusions. I still don't fully umderstand it all, because the data souces are so vast, contradictory and undecideable by any rational criteria. If anyone tells you that they DO understand it all, they are certainly incorrect, and are either grossly in error or dishonest.


NOBODY fully understands it -- it's intrinsically I<POSSIBLE to fully understand. We may know a great deal, but we can only know and assi,ilate a fraction of what's out there.


I fully expect 9/11 Research to be prigressing for a very long time indeed -- as the Battle at Thermopylae is still discussed and argued over, 2,500 years later.


The forces at work in 9/11 are so complex, and so great, that fair and impartial (just) trials are hardly possiblet. The events are woven into the political and social fabric of our world. "One Word Of Truth Can Change The World" said Alexander Solzhenitsyn in his Nobel Prize Address:


http://www.STARGATE.uk.net/nobel.txt


I strongly recommend that people read it. It is extraordinarily beautiful and prescient.

It is exactly and most movingly relevant to our work in 9/11 Researches.

Regards,

Anduril


PS: NOT 'Andruil' (smiles)

This post has been edited by Anduril: Mar 2 2009, 10:46 PM
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Mar 2 2009, 10:50 PM
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Anduril,

Are you aware of and have you viewed all of the independent verifiable evidence we have obtained and presented?

Please let me know which first-hand on-location video-taped witness interviews we present that you have viewed in part or in full.

Thanks.
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amazed!
post Mar 2 2009, 10:54 PM
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Craig

The feeling is mutual sir. I spent a year in a Benedictine Monastery, and your arrogant attitude about your bit of dogma reminds me very much of that.

You are as dogmatic about your theory as any person defending the OCT.

You've done good work, but your arrogance exceeds even mine.
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painter
post Mar 2 2009, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (Anduril @ Mar 2 2009, 06:39 PM) *
..
PS: NOT 'Andruil' (smiles)


Ooops, sorry, my bad. Corrected up thread.

Still, now I too am curious re Craig's question to you.
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amazed!
post Mar 2 2009, 11:03 PM
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As I said earlier Craig, I don't give a good goddamn whether the flyby took place north, south, or in between.

You think the sun rises and sets on what happened at the Pentagon, when what happened there was but 1 act of a 40 act play. Eight years after the fact, it's trivial pursuit. It is history, and has been successfully covered up by the perps. At least 1 out of 3 persons believe the official story, and the other doesn't really care.

It's kinda like the JFK assassination. Maybe someday the History Channel will do a special on your work.

In the meantime, there is lotsa things going on to consolidate the gains made that day. In my book that is far more important than the bloody details of how the deception at the Pentagon was pulled off.

Unlike you, I don't need to BELIEVE in some particular scenario, other than it was all staged.
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Mar 2 2009, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 3 2009, 03:54 AM) *
You are as dogmatic about your theory as any person defending the OCT.



The north side evidence is not a theory.

You have a real difficult time telling the difference between theory and evidence because as you have so clearly stated you don't give a damn.

You do this for fun.
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amazed!
post Mar 2 2009, 11:08 PM
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You're making it fun...
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Mar 2 2009, 11:18 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 3 2009, 03:08 AM) *
You're making it fun...


Uh-huh.

I bet you haven't even bothered to view the full body of evidence you are writing off as "theory" either.

Even though you dodged my other question I'll pose the same one to you that I did Anduril.

Which of the first-hand on-location video-taped witness interviews that we present have viewed in part or in full?
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Mar 2 2009, 11:38 PM
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You reveal yourself with every post.

This is amazing alright.

At least you have admitted that you don't care about evidence and see no hope in uncovering the deception.

Thanks for being honest but I think it will be quite obvious to anyone reading your posts how your defeatist attitude is detrimental to the truth movement.

You basically see any notion of a truth movement irrelevant and futile and therefore perfer to wallow in the realm of speculation and theory as opposed to committing to action and justice.

You actually have DISDAIN for us because we have uncovered hard evidence and tout it as proof.

Sad.

Unbelievably sad.
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CocaineImportAge...
post Mar 3 2009, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE
You basically see any notion of a truth movement irrelevant and futile and therefore perfer to wallow in the realm of speculation and theory as opposed to committing to action and justice.



Craig!... i`d like to ask you a question!

...if one day strolling through the park you sat down on a bench... and by its side you found a briefcase!

...on opening the briefcase you discovered it contained finite jaw dropping evidence of the planned attack of 9-11!

...what would you do with it?











...i would walk away and leave it!
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Mar 3 2009, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (CocaineImportAgency @ Mar 3 2009, 04:11 AM) *
...i would walk away and leave it!


Really?

Then why are you here?

I have worked for years to seek out, obtain, and provide that evidence for the world so I'm not sure why you would even ask me such a ridiculous question. (unless you haven't bothered to view the evidence we present either)

My actions prove what I would do and it would not be the cowardly choice you made that would facilitate the continued slaughter of innocents throughout the world in a fraudulent war.
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painter
post Mar 3 2009, 12:25 AM
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QUOTE (CocaineImportAgency @ Mar 2 2009, 08:11 PM) *
...i would walk away and leave it!


Unbelievable. I am STUNNED by some people on this forum.

Apparently CIA, you don't understand that what we have is already better than your preposterous "brief case" precisely because it is real.

Un f*cking believable.
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Ligon
post Mar 3 2009, 12:26 AM
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Hi everyone,

I have been a member of the PentaCon/CIT forums for a pretty long time, but this is my first post here.

I just want to jump right in.

QUOTE (CocaineImportAgency @ Mar 2 2009, 11:11 PM) *
Craig!... i`d like to ask you a question!

...if one day strolling through the park you sat down on a bench... and by its side you found a briefcase!

...on opening the briefcase you discovered it contained finite jaw dropping evidence of the planned attack of 9-11!

...what would you do with it?


This hypothetical scenario is analogous to what has actually happened, so obviously he would do what he has done and is doing:

(1) Release that information to the public [CHECK]

(2) Attempt to alert the media, the authorities, and the public [CHECK, although results have been poor due to extremely limited resources, the monstrous implications of the evidence, and pervasive incredulity]

(3) Enlist the support of others who have been looking for such evidence and try to persuade them to abandon previous dead-end speculation and to help with (2) so that (hopefully) better results can be achieved. [SEE THIS THREAD AND THIS ONE]

This post has been edited by Ligon: Mar 3 2009, 12:29 AM
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painter
post Mar 3 2009, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (Ligon @ Mar 2 2009, 08:26 PM) *
Hi everyone,

I have been a member of the PentaCon/CIT forums for a pretty long time, but this is my first post here.

I just want to jump right in.



This hypothetical scenario is analogous to what has actually happened, so obviously he would do what he has done and is doing:

1) Release that information to the public [CHECK]

2) Attempt to contact the media and authorities [CHECK, although results have been poor due to extremely limited resources, the monstrous implications of the evidence, and pervasive incredulity]

3) Enlist the support of others who have been looking for such evidence and try to persuade to abandon previous dead-end speculation and to help with Step #2 so that (hopefully) better results can be achieved. [SEE THIS THREAD AND THIS ONE]


Welcome to the forum, Ligon, and right on! thumbsup.gif
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Ligon
post Mar 3 2009, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE (painter @ Mar 2 2009, 11:28 PM) *
Welcome to the forum, Ligon, and right on! thumbsup.gif

Thank you painter. B)
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aviophobia
post Mar 3 2009, 12:48 AM
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Hello again Craig et al,

So I'm getting from all the evidence you've assembled that you've got an idea of what you're going after. So Flight 77 banks and flies over the pentagon. There's no missile, or small commuter jet, and I'm guessing you don't have a fighter plane or remote controlled plane in mind. So that leaves explosives from ground level. Gerard can't be from the 'inside' camp because he's out-of-step with the government version. So he's a bit of a mystery. It would be interesting to talk to his co-workers to see what sort of a guy he is. And what does that say of the stop-frame video the govt. released? That would have to make it an alleged fake. Am I getting warm?
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