Kucinich Or Paul?, or Kucinich AND Paul? Options

[Wingmaster05]

This has been bugging me since kucinich and paul were running in 08 for president. I recall getting swept up into the ron paul/kucinich fervor in 07.

[André]

It was a tossup between voting is useless or none of the above but I chose none of the above, while an election can be a useful exercise, the voting process is not sufficient to ensure fundamental changes. No real solution will come from "above", we need to get active politically, locally in our community, our workplace and build on small victories, and hopefully create a mass movement, then real change might be possible (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , of course all of this is easier said than done.

The financial crisis can be used to inform, educate people and could accelerate the process, Ideologies should be avoided, we can focus on meeting human needs instead, any real change is revolutionary in nature and the ballot box is just there to confirm what has already happened.

my 2cents.

[albertchampion]

actually, andre, the major problem is the electronic voting mechanisms that have been forced upon us.

until those devices are removed from the voting process, voting is just a form of mass masturbation.

and that only solves a part of the vote tabulation corruption. WHO DOES THE COUNTING?

it has been my observation over the years that there has never been an honest vote count in the USA.

collaterally, the supreme court decision that establishes corporations as persons must be terminated. along with buckley versus vallejo that made money equivalent to speech[this is the decision that empowered corporate pacs].

it has long been my view that if you live in the usa[possibly even canada] that you are living in a disguised ussr.

[André]

"actually, Andre, the major problem is the electronic voting mechanisms that have been forced upon us."

Yes that also is a major problem, so is domination of the corporate media that forge public perception, how can the average citizen make an intelligent choice based on what s generally available in the MSM ? there are so many other barriers that have been put there to stop any possibility that an honest candidate get elected to the top post nationally that it seems impossible to me.

The presidency at this stage is meant to be a ceremonial position and if by some miracle someone got a chance to change this, that person would be quickly meet the same fate as JFK, and it doesn't have to be a bullet, could be a political or personal scandal real or made up really doesn't matter...

To focus our attention, our actions mostly on the national level is a waste of energy, Change will have to come from the bottom up, I don't see any other alternative.

my 2 cents

[albertchampion]

unfortunately, there is no bottom that i want to be governing my life.

it sounds like a nice concept, but i think i know the bottom. fascist bastids - all of them.

these are the staunch and leal citizens who have never had any inhibitions to countenance the usa traversing the globe to mass murder "wogs".

your bottom are the citizens who believe in the official conspiracy theory concerning the events of 11/09/01. who believe that fiction justified the invasions of afghanistan, iraq.

your bottom are the citizens who relished bill clinton and tony blair imposing such sanctions on iraq that thousands of iraqis were killed, that the country's infrastructure was destroyed.

your bottom are the citizens who applauded the clinton invasion of the balkans[serbia, bosnia].

your bottom are the most ignorant individuals imaginable. sad to say. assuming that there were honest vote counts, they have voted against their interests time and time again.

and you want to put your life, the life of your family, in their hands?

[André]

"unfortunately, there is no bottom that i want to be governing my life"

Then why do you suggest that the major problem is the electronic voting mechanisms that have been forced upon us, you obviously have some faith in the choice these people make, under the present circumstances I do not. What I am recommending is a process, it's not about adopting the views of Joe the Plumber, it's about involvement in community affairs, taking responsibility through cooperation and activism on shared interests, it's not an easy undertaking, but again I do not see any alternatives, I no longer believe in top down solutions, never did really.

The bottom you describe is not what I am talking about, these are people who are hypnotized by the system, they are generally passive and would rather sit at home and watch TV, they fear their neighbours and believe what the politicians tell them, and by the results they do seem to be the ones more inclined to vote.

As far as Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich is concerned, whether it is deliberate or not, they do serve a purpose, it's a way of blowing off steam, keeping us involved in the game, more of an illusion than anything else.

my 2cents

[Sanders]

Kuchinich would be far better than anyone we will ever get in office under the current system - but he is wanting. His heart is in the right place, but he doesn't fully understand the problems.

Ron Paul understands the problems, but he has not woken up fully - he doesn't see that 9/11 was part of the scam - or he won't admit it.

I'd rather have Ron Paul in power ... but this is all academic.