Famous "diagonal Cut Column", Metalsmith analysis Options

[DoYouEverWonder]

All that text and not one image of the steel core columns in the core area on 9-11. Clearly, the concrete core mentioned by Robertson is verified by Oxford, verifying Domel verified by the image of WTC 2 core, verifying the top of WTC 2 core falling onto WTC 3, the WTC 1 rebar, just after the WTC 1 west core wall is seen in an end view, then, the WTC 1 east shear wall toppling, consistent with interior box columns silhouetted on WTC 1 north core wall, consistent with ground zero showing the WTC 1 north concrete core base wall, 12 foot thick, all supported as clarification of the many confused statements that do mention concrete in the core including the latest revised NIST contracted analysis of free fall by Bazant et. al 6/21/2007, which actually provides an equivalent amount of high explosives needed to create the rate of fall they are attempting to justify with physics. It doesn't work, but at least they won't go down in history as totally supporting the deceptions.

Please, I shown you pictures for too many years for you to pretend you've never seen one.

If you really need me to show you again, then please start a new thread.

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Feb 27 2010, 02:16 PM

[BADBURD]

Please, I shown you pictures for too many years for you to pretend you've never seen one.

If you really need me to show you again, then please start a new thread.

I would like to see the pictures your talking about. Start a new tread on "wtc core design"

I know one thing. It is very hard to find anything relating to the towers construction that was written in the early seventies. Nothing I find on the internet is going to convince me. I want a hands on book. I don't care what the outcome is. I just want a positive answer.

[Christophera]

I would like to see the pictures your talking about. Start a new tread on "wtc core design"

I know one thing. It is very hard to find anything relating to the towers construction that was written in the early seventies. Nothing I find on the internet is going to convince me. I want a hands on book. I don't care what the outcome is. I just want a positive answer.

Since there is a controversy and the concrete core is forced into "Alternate theories" I would like to see a title like "Independently verified evidence for steel core columns", so that the same misrepresentations are not used over again and a large thread is avoided.
Evidence not traceble back to FEMA. Or varied descriptions.

Another valid post in that thread would be a plan check. Comparison against the plans and 9-11 or ground zero images. Anything to get away from the buttplates shown on top of the elevator guide rail support steel misrepresentation of construction photos. Only 100% fillet welds are acceptable for "steel core columns". Images from 9-11 showing them in the core area where they should be would help too.

This post has been edited by Christophera: Feb 28 2010, 02:07 PM

[elreb]

Just to be fair…I looked this up. You be the judge!

A thermal lance, thermic lance, or burning bar is a tool that burns iron in an oxygen-rich environment (not thermite) to create very high temperatures for cutting. It consists of a long iron tube packed with iron rods, sometimes mixed with aluminum or magnesium rods to increase the heat output. One end of the tube is placed in a holder and oxygen is fed through the tube.

The far end of the tube is usually lit by an oxyacetylene torch. It can also be lit by an electric spark, in which case the tube is connected to one terminal of a battery and the other terminal is connected to a copper electrode. The end of the tube is then rubbed against the copper electrode to produce sparks, which ignite the lance.

An intense flame is produced at the lit end and can be used to cut rapidly through thick materials including steel and concrete. The tube is consumed, so every few minutes the operator shuts off the oxygen, discards the remaining stub of a lance tube and starts using a new one.

Popular depictions of thermal lances sometimes exaggerate their capabilities…

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Thermal_lance.2004-8-4.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xbz68D3V9o...feature=related

[DoYouEverWonder]

Since there is a controversy and the concrete core is forced into "Alternate theories"

No it hasn't.

The new thread is in the same forum as this one.


Wtc Core Design, How were they built
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...c=19681&hl=

[Maha Mantra]

I've never seen any forms being used for making a concrete core in any photos or videos of the towers.
Photos of the core columns show no concrete walls near them.

The angle cut in question appears to have been accessible from all sides, so why cut a hole and cut the near side from within the column ? Why not cut the near side across first and then get along with the bizarre angle cutting on the sides ?

The mentioning of putting guides inside the tube and even on the outside doesn't make a lot of sense in the case of demolition since, one, putting guides inside is kind of hard isn't it ? And the cuts don't have to be straight.

I appreciate the insight that yes it could be done that way with a torch, although you'd need one with a tip that isn't a 90 degree angle at the end when doing the inside of the column. And in looking at the cut closer, it has markings as would be made with a torch but could be from something else.

I am not experienced in cutter charges, and I wonder how they'd cut the near side. They would be attached on all four sides, I'd expect and melt the steel towards the center. Or maybe someone would cut a hole and put guides inside the column to lay the cutter charge to blow through the near side (kind of kidding).

One thing I've never seen is how the columns were joined together one section to the next.
It seems there are quite a few pictures of columns that are seperated at their ends, indicating the joints were weaker than the columns or the connections were caused to fail.

Pictures of thermate cuts might give some comparisons if anyone can find any.

The fact that nano-thermate was found in the dust, if Jones is correct, means that it was used somehow. Unless it was just being stored in all three buildings that came down at 60% and even 100% of free-fall acceleration in some cases.
The molten steel reported by many expert witnesses several weaks after the attack in the basements and the intense heat of the collapse zone - when its obvious the fire is put out within the first two seconds of collapse, and any fire below the rubble would have been oxygen starved and was being flooded with water by the firemen, indicates another heat source capable of melting steel, which jet fuel and office furnishings can't do, and 80% of the collapsed building materials were cool to start with.
So large questions remain, regardless of one column surrounded by photoshopped models.

[Christophera]

I've never seen any forms being used for making a concrete core in any photos or videos of the towers.
Photos of the core columns show no concrete walls near them.

There is a very good reason why you have not seen concrete during construction, guiliani took the photos while the courts protect their hiding. Also there is a missing PBS video from 1990. (Update on search for missing PBS video by Dr. Ron Larsen.)

together with 6000 files of photographs, 1000 audiotapes, and 15,000 videotapes.

Wonder why that fact is not on every 9-11 conspiracy site.

Wonder why this image, the only one of either of the towers core is only found on one 9-11 theory site, mine.

(IMG:http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif)

Wonder why the statement of Leslie Robertson, an engineer of records for the Twins on September 13, 2001 where his information to Newsweek identifies a concrete core is not on every 9-11 conspiracy web site. And particuarly wonder why AFTER you realize that this,

(IMG:http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/femacore.gif) �

Is the only official diagram of the towers core of any kind in existence.


This post has been edited by Christophera: Mar 4 2010, 03:39 AM

[Paul]

Ok then we have hard evidence of controlled demolition at least one of the wtc
twin towers lets go over to JFUCKS and start a debate and we can finally get them
to admit defeat, we can finally corner the little SHITS because now we have hard
evidence right guys?

Or do we have another debunkable case in other words m00t nothing nil no
evidence whatsoever.

I am only kidding guys i know most of you would not bother even wasting your time
right, if only we had an undebunkable case for CD i would be having multiple
orgasms right here right now would you?

Imagine how much joy it would be to rub their dirty little grubby little faces in it,
just like i could grabbed you by the hair and rubbed you face in a pile of cat feces.

Do you guys think the day will ever come when they finally get to realise what they
have been dreading all along, and are forced to face the music and not be able to run
and hide from the truth anymore and be forced to accept reality?

the govt loyalist site = James randi educational failures & frauds

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

This post has been edited by Paul: Mar 4 2010, 08:20 AM

[Christophera]

Just to be fair…I looked this up. You be the judge!

A thermal lance, thermic lance, or burning bar is a tool that burns iron in an oxygen-rich environment (not thermite) to create very high temperatures for cutting. It consists of a long iron tube packed with iron rods, sometimes mixed with aluminum or magnesium rods to increase the heat output. One end of the tube is placed in a holder and oxygen is fed through the tube.

The far end of the tube is usually lit by an oxyacetylene torch. It can also be lit by an electric spark, in which case the tube is connected to one terminal of a battery and the other terminal is connected to a copper electrode. The end of the tube is then rubbed against the copper electrode to produce sparks, which ignite the lance.

An intense flame is produced at the lit end and can be used to cut rapidly through thick materials including steel and concrete. The tube is consumed, so every few minutes the operator shuts off the oxygen, discards the remaining stub of a lance tube and starts using a new one.

Popular depictions of thermal lances sometimes exaggerate their capabilities…

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Thermal_lance.2004-8-4.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xbz68D3V9o...feature=related

That is the tool used to make the diagonal cut on the column. The entry hole for cutting the side facing the camera from the inside of the tube is on the top edge in the back. The diagonal, with the fractured uncut tabs on the left side make a hinge that cause the column over the cut to travel horizontally making it easy to grasp with the excavator grapple and keep it away from the pit.

[Christophera]

View this movie made during the construction of the Twin towers.

http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov9.htm

There is absolutely no evidence of any form or form materials on the site or anything which looks remotely like a concrete shell for the cores.

The reason there is no evidence is because guiliani took thosands of photos and videos from the NYC offices in violation of law while the courts protect their hiding.

[Paul]

Check out this shot look at all the smoke near the end near that pedestrian
bridge at the base of the wtc why is there so much smoke coming from the
base of the tower?

Checkout what the guy says near the start "i heard a missile dude
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh pop" lololololol NOT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcGd9U43mXM...feature=related

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

This post has been edited by Paul: Mar 5 2010, 10:04 AM

[Maha Mantra]

I think there is plenty of visual proof of steel core columns. A concrete core could have been poured inside of those at a lower position then all of the photograhic footage.
I don't know the reason or need for an inner core of concrete, and I don't have the knowledge as to what a 1000 foot tall concrete square would have to be regarding thickness at the bottom, taper etc.
There isn't a lot of data on what is within the center of the buildings. The one floor plan A&Efor 9-11 truth show, shows elevators around core columns, but nothing in the center.
I'm sure that William Rodriguez would know something about the cores of the buildings, and he isn't hard to find, and is a most helpful natured person.
From what I've seen, concrete may require a louder explosive type of demolition than steel. Concrete requires fracturing, correct ?, Not shaped charge cutting ?

The photo showing a standing core could be steel columns with gypsum board covering.

Steven Jones has the best evidence for nanothermate from the dust on 9-11. A case could be made using his evidence, testimonies regarding explosions etc., enough that an independant investigation could be done. There's still plenty of dust available even though the steel has been sent to China or someplace. Maybe some of the steel still remains unmelted.
The USGS infrared photography and fireman testimony about site temperatures and molten steel in the basement weeks later raise another aspect of question.

There are shots showing large whitish clouds at the base of the towers about 10 seconds before collapse. Melting core columns at the base would require a lot of thermitic reaction giving off lots of white aluminum oxide smoke, and a more traditional thermite would require some seconds to melt the core columns at the base.

I'm not sure why a concrete core wouldn't be shown or talked about in old footage.

[DoYouEverWonder]

I think there is plenty of visual proof of steel core columns. A concrete core could have been poured inside of those at a lower position then all of the photograhic footage.
I don't know the reason or need for an inner core of concrete, and I don't have the knowledge as to what a 1000 foot tall concrete square would have to be regarding thickness at the bottom, taper etc.
There isn't a lot of data on what is within the center of the buildings. The one floor plan A&Efor 9-11 truth show, shows elevators around core columns, but nothing in the center.
I'm sure that William Rodriguez would know something about the cores of the buildings, and he isn't hard to find, and is a most helpful natured person.
From what I've seen, concrete may require a louder explosive type of demolition than steel. Concrete requires fracturing, correct ?, Not shaped charge cutting ?

The photo showing a standing core could be steel columns with gypsum board covering.

Steven Jones has the best evidence for nanothermate from the dust on 9-11. A case could be made using his evidence, testimonies regarding explosions etc., enough that an independant investigation could be done. There's still plenty of dust available even though the steel has been sent to China or someplace. Maybe some of the steel still remains unmelted.
The USGS infrared photography and fireman testimony about site temperatures and molten steel in the basement weeks later raise another aspect of question.

There are shots showing large whitish clouds at the base of the towers about 10 seconds before collapse. Melting core columns at the base would require a lot of thermitic reaction giving off lots of white aluminum oxide smoke, and a more traditional thermite would require some seconds to melt the core columns at the base.

I'm not sure why a concrete core wouldn't be shown or talked about in old footage.

There was nothing in the center in between the elevator banks, because there was nothing there, except for the floor slabs. This is how they accommodated the sky lobbies where people changed elevators, in order to get to different floors. Steel is a great building material when you want to create large open spaces without any columns in the way.

All the evidence shows lot's of steel. LOOK AT THE PICTURES. There is a big difference between steel construction and concrete construction. It is not something you can hide. There was no concrete or masonry used in any of the above grade floors of the Twin Towers. There was some masonry below ground and believe it or not, in WTC 7 there was a masonry wall that ran down the center of the 5th Floor, which happens to be the floor that initiated the collapse of that building.

[woodbourne]

The Newsweek article you site does not contain a quote from Leslie Robertson saying that the cores were concrete. Rather it contains a sentence written by the reported saying that. The article doesn't even attribute that sentence to Robertson let alone say it's a quote from him. There must have been thousands of articles published in the days following 9/11 on the towers construction. I bet you could find tons of mistakes in them if you cared to try.

[Paul]

Does anybody notice in this video how the tower begins collapse exactly where the molten metal was
seen pouring out from? Just a coincidence you might think, I say most certainly not, kind of compelling
evidence of something don't you think?

9/11 Rare World Trade Center Collapse Footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI3Qs0TQVQU...feature=related

And yet as the long string of 9/11 coincidences continues to grow so does the bullshit.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Paul: Mar 29 2010, 05:05 AM

[Paul]

Check this out guys some silly little amatuer kiddies have mixed copper oxide with thermite and the result
is a rather decent sized explosion I highly doubt whether the concussive force from this explosion would be enough to
cut through thick steel beams though, if they can get it to explode this much do you guys think it would
be possible to create an even more powerful thermite explosion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe0NZp43g50

[DoYouEverWonder]

Check this out guys some silly little amatuer kiddies have mixed copper oxide with thermite and the result
is a rather decent sized explosion I highly doubt whether the concussive force from this explosion would be enough to
cut through thick steel beams though, if they can get it to explode this much do you guys think it would
be possible to create an even more powerful thermite explosion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe0NZp43g50

They've been using thermite in bombs since WWII (if not before).

By 1945 Allied HE bombs had increased in power five-fold. But by then, on an equal-weight basis, incendiaries such as the US 70 lb. (30 kg.) M47, which used napalm, were far more effective, though the liquid-filled British 30 lb. (13.6 kg.) ‘J’ bomb, first used by RAF Bomber Command in April 1944, was a failure as it often failed to work. Early British incendiaries filled with thermite—a mixture of iron oxide and powdered aluminium—produced great heat but this dissipated quickly and was confined to a small area. The Germans overcame this with their highly effective 1 kg. (2.2 lb.) bomb by making thermite its primary igniting substance and metallic magnesium the principal incendiary material. This made it burn with great heat for a long time and it could not be doused with water.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O129-bombs.html

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Apr 2 2010, 07:22 AM

[Obwon]

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/DoYouEverWonder/Misc/Firemanwbiganglecutbeam.jpg)

Aside from the angle cut beam covered in slag, there's something else wrong with this picture. The 3 'firemen' in the foreground have been photoshopped into the picture.

If you look at this image closely, you can see that the 3 'firemen' are all the same person, in different poses and positions.

Verified! I blew it up to pixel level and sure enough the pasting artifacts are there.
The "trick" appears to be that the fireman was photographed against a background of
debris, then a large area around him was cut out and pasted back into the picture on
a layer. Next the eraser was used with a low opacity, to remove whatever obviously
did not fit into the picture. But overhead of the fireman on the far right, you can see
that he has a background halo over his head, that doesn't fit the background it tries
to merge with.

Opened in text pad the file says Adobe Photoshop 7.0 2007
There appears to be exif info in the file too. Anyone have a decoder?
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

obwon

[Obwon]

The Core Structure Of The World Trade Center Towers

http://911review.org/WTC/concrete-core.html

Was A Steel Reinforced, Cast Concrete, Tubular Core.

WTC 2 CORE STANDING

http://concretecore.741.com/#anchor1149808

THE REBAR

http://concretecore.741.com/#anchor1151751

THE CORE HALLWAYS

http://concretecore.741.com/#anchor1149808

THE CONCRETE TOWER BASE:

http://concretecore.741.com/#anchor1209159

THE WTC 2 CORE FALLING

http://concretecore.741.com/#anchor1152280

THE SPIRE

http://concretecore.741.com/#anchor1150948

Some in the UK still think the WTC tower core was built as shown below. Basically a pre-stressed concrete design. Yamasaki had reviewed the design, and found no contractor that could build a 1,300 foot column of that design. We all know the towers had their stairwells and elevators inside the core. There is no room for that in the core below.
XXXXXXXX

(IMG:http://911review.org/WTC/images/_1540044_world_trade_structure300.gif)

The Core Structure Of The World Trade Center Towers Was A Steel Reinforced, Cast Concrete, Tubular Core.

http://concretecore.741.com/

(IMG:http://911review.org/WTC/images/corehallsdoors.gif)

Enjoy

Obwon

[Obwon]

Ah, yes, now I remember.

As a sometimes visitor to the towers, I didn't remember a feature that I'm sure
people there more frequently did.

Remember those annoying odd and even floor elevators? You'd stand there and
think, "What the matter here? Why shouldn't all the elevators stop on all the floors?"
I mean, after all, if it's speed that desired... Well they also have express elevators too!
So what were they for?

I mean, to the casual observer, especially ones in a hurry, this odd, even scheme
seemed just a wee bit annoying-as-useless.

But there was a good reason for it, the even floors opened on corridors facing
north south, while the odd floor elevators had to open their doors on corridors
facing east west (generally).

Obwon