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Looking For Flight 77 Lat/lon Data

mirageofdeceit
post Mar 12 2007, 09:00 PM
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Hi,

I'm looking for the Lat/Lon position data for Flight 77. I have the CSV file and the L3 compressed data, but the CSV file terminates at cell IV in my spreadsheet app and I have no way of decoding the L3 data.

Does anyone have any links to this data?

MirageOfDeceit.
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Cary
post Mar 12 2007, 09:14 PM
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Ragin Cajun


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Welcome to the forum mirageofdeceit. There are several threads here that contain the information you are looking for. Let us know if you are having trouble finding them.
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rob balsamo
post Mar 13 2007, 07:51 AM
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L3 Readout

Flight Path Reconstruction

DCA DME

Lat/Long plot

Conversation with our FDR Expert (although pilots already know this):
QUOTE
FDR Expert: Oh if you have DME and VOR you use that every time. DME is very accurate, the trouble with lat/long is it relies on GPS data which is all under the control of the military, if they wanted to they can pretty much make that plane appear anywhere they want from the lat/long. So yea every time use the DME.



Please try to browse the forum and/or use the search feature prior to repeat posts. Thanks!

Welcome to the Forums!
Rob
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mirageofdeceit
post Mar 14 2007, 06:41 AM
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Hi,

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2000/n...se_000203a.html

In 2000, the GPS system on 757-300s was being classed as a "new" piece of avionics. Whilst it states here it is also available for the 757-200, The AA77 757-200 was built in 1996. Was it retro-fitted with GPS?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family...back/back4.html

QUOTE
# The precision of global positioning satellite (GPS) system navigation, automated air traffic control functions, and advanced guidance and communications features are now available as part of the new Future Air Navigation System (FANS) flight management computer.


Note also that GPS is not permitted to be used as primary nav, unless backed up by a system such as IRS. If the GPS fails, the IRS takes over. The data we are seeing in the FDR is the IRS position. If it had GPS, it would also show the GPS position.

The IRS would be updated using DME updates, to maintain system accuracy. the GPS would NOT be used for this function, for the fact that the GPS system could indeed be made inaccurate. To update the IRS from the GPS would render the IRS useless as a backup in the event of GPS failure or positional error, as it would have the same positional errors the GPS system had before it was deemed unreliable for navigation. This is an unacceptable scenario in commercial aviation and is not permitted.

Does the FDR show the GPS position? I don't believe it does, which suggests to me the AA77 757-200 was not retro-fitted with GPS. Thus, the IRS system is accurate and couldn't be tampered with, unless the FDR data was altered after the fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Air_Navigation_System

QUOTE
A Qantas Airways, On June 20, 1995, Qantas B747-400 VH-OJQ became the first aircraft to certify Future Air Navigation System (FANS-1) by Remote Type Certification (RTC) in Sydney Australia......UAL certified the GE and PW FANS-1 package respectively.
It does not state which aircraft type though. 747-400?

QUOTE
B Boeing Business Jet, on May 24, 2004, completed the first North Atlantic flight by a business jet equipped with the Future Air Navigation System (FANS), a system that streamlines communication between airplane crews and air-traffic controllers. The airplane touched down at the European Business Aviation Convention and Exhibition in Geneva, Switzerland. The non-stop eight-hour, 4,000-nautical-mile flight originating from Gary/Chicago International Airport in Gary, Indiana, was part of a North Atlantic Traffic trial conducted by the FANS Central Monitoring Agency (FCMA).
Seems its roll-out is pretty slow.

This post has been edited by mirageofdeceit: Mar 14 2007, 07:52 AM
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rob balsamo
post Mar 14 2007, 09:56 AM
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1.5 DME off DCA VOR is the most accurate position with respect to the information provided by the NTSB.

The next most accurate information is the plot produced by the NTSB in the animation ending the flight over highway 27 at 09:37:44.
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