"zeitgeist's" Interpretation Of Christianity

post Aug 27 2007, 06:22 PM
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In a different thread, different forum, Cary wrote, addressing Natasha:

QUOTE (Cary @ Aug 27 2007, 01:08 PM)

No problem.  You won't be banned, and insults and taunting your way won't be tolerated here.

I respect your personal views on the bible, God and Jesus.  I, however, don't share your religious/spiritual beliefs in the bible and Jesus.  I was raised as a catholic.  Gave up what I call "the magic show" when I was in high school.  Too much hypocrisy and conflicting bullshit.  Have you seen the video, "Zeitgeist - The Movie"?  The video is well researched and shows that the story of Jesus is an amalgam of a couple dozen previous religions that worship the "sun god."  I've done some amount of research on the claims about Jesus and haven't found anything that conflicts the video.  I'm not saying I've researched every little claim in the video, and I'm claiming "the truth" here.  Just saying I've been turned off to organized religion for a long time, and that my intuitive understanding of God, higher power, etc. does not jive with the bible or christianity.  Doesn't make me right, just means I have a different understanding than you do about all this.  In my interpretation, the bible was written by men long after Jesus, if he's real, was alive.  These writings were then bastardized by the Council of Nicea under Emperor Constantine of Rome in the third century.  "Zeitgeist" does a great job of showing that the bible is an astrological story about the churning of heavenly bodies, with our sun being a major player.

Sorry if this is unsettling for you.  That's not my intention.  Here's a link to "Zeitgeist" if you're interested in watching it.


Not wanting to take the original thread fruther off topic, I'd like to reply to this post here.

One of the many things I've done in my life is studied, not exhaustively or academically but for personal reasons, comparative religion -- and in particular what might best be called 'esoteric' ideas. In my opinion, one of the things that the movie Zeitgeist (which, over all, I appreciate) does not make clear is that sacred texts, such as the Bible, have LEVELS of meaning and interpretation. One author who wrote about this exhaustively from an unorthodox Egyptologist perspective was Isha Schawaller De Lubicz. In her book, "The Temple In Man in which she describes her exhaustive study of the Egyptian Temple of Luxor, she presents the argument that ancient temples can be read and understood as sacred texts[i]; that the "content" of these "texts" is not only in the hieroglyphics found on the temple walls, but in the architectural elements and mathematical relationships of the physical temple itself. She even explains that often the walls of more ancient temples were deconstructed (literally) and the texts upon them were either inserted into new locations (a stone 'copy and paste' if you will) or, sometimes, actually placed behind the visible walls in the masonry cavity.

The point being made here is a complex one. The fundamental idea is that a "sacred text" (whether made out of stone or parchment) is a complex relationship of ideas that were meant to shape the understanding of those who were capable of 'reading' the text. 'Sacred texts' were [i]sacred
precisely because they were NOT to be taken literally but were, instead, to be read as, more than a mere 'representation', an actual miniature manifestation of the cosmos. Hidden within this thought is that the cosmos itself is a teaching and that everything within it is also 'a teaching' just as any part of a fragmented hologram contains within it the whole, just as any specific point of a fractal contains within itself a representation of the whole fractal of which it is a part. In fact, these 'parts' can not, actually be separated out one from the other. From this admittedly quite complicated point of view, then, not only is the cosmos a teaching but so is Man (collectively) and a man (individually).

For this reason, although it is true that pre-Christian Solar Diety worship is imbedded within the Bible as a text, it would not be accurate to either say or suggest that this is the full and exhaustive meaning apprehensible by those who know how to read. The meaning apprehensible in any truly sacred text is necessarily limited by the level of the being apprehending it. This has nothing to do with wether or not a particular story or fable is literally true or historically accurate, it has to do with the ability of human beings to grow in knowledge and develop in awareness and being such that things that were previously 'hidden' (beyond one's scope) become accessible. In fact, the struggle to 'understand' a genuine sacred text should be accompanied by an equal, inner struggle to understand the full functioning of the human organism (especially one's own) and the greater cosmos (on all its levels) of which it and its functioning is a microcosm.
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post Nov 25 2007, 07:04 AM
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There is the argument the different church denominations share so much in common that consistency in matters of faith is to be found in only one of them, the ancient creeds of the Roman Catholic Church. This is known as the ecumenical argument. A rather similar argument is used by the makers of'Zeitgeist'. They tell us there are such striking similarities in different beliefs from pagan antiquity onwards there's nothing really distinctive in Christianity.

But I disagree. Imagine a forger who makes banknotes. His aim is not to make 9 dollar notes. He makes 10 dollar notes. He aims to make them so close to real ones there's really little difference between the two. On paper. And yet we cannot accept forgeries. Can we ? It's clear that forgers make products that are hard to distinguish from real ones. So the fact that things can sound very similar at a superficial level is not good reason to be bound by the ecumenical movement. Truth and error are often so close to one another by design that we do well NOT to be deceived.

The true test, of course, is that the Christian faith is not static. It's not identified by creeds or tradition. It faithfully bears record to the day in which we live. Not to an age that is passed. It's dynamic and it resists oppression. It is not enforced by secular governments. It's an attitude we take as individuals, and it is liberty. The churches are (or have become) a form of bondage. That's why their history is very different from that of Christianity.

But that's why the most deceiving of them all claims to be the TRUTH itself. It isn't. No church is the truth. But let others bind themselves together. That's churchianity.
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Posts in this topic
- painter   "zeitgeist's" Interpretation Of Christianity   Aug 27 2007, 06:22 PM
- - Zapzarap   When I watched "Zeitgeist" for the first...   Aug 28 2007, 05:06 AM
|- - dirknb   QUOTE (Zapzarap @ Aug 28 2007, 04:06 AM) ...   Jun 6 2008, 03:22 PM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (Zapzarap @ Aug 28 2007, 11:06 AM)Anoth...   Aug 28 2007, 05:27 AM
- - Natasha   QUOTE (Zapzarap @ Aug 28 2007, 04:06 AM)When ...   Aug 28 2007, 05:32 AM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (Natasha @ Aug 28 2007, 11:32 AM)The Ta...   Aug 28 2007, 06:03 AM
- - Natasha   Dodge this. No, really, please do. Youtube: Using...   Aug 28 2007, 07:08 AM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (Natasha @ Aug 28 2007, 01:08 PM)Dodge ...   Aug 28 2007, 07:45 AM
- - Zapzarap   QUOTE (Carl Bank @ Aug 28 2007, 11:27 AM)Poss...   Aug 28 2007, 07:51 AM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (Zapzarap @ Aug 28 2007, 01:51 PM)QUOTE...   Aug 28 2007, 08:09 AM
- - Zapzarap   RE: "zeitgeist's" Interpretation Of Christianity   Aug 28 2007, 08:15 AM
- - Devilsadvocate   QUOTE In my opinion, one of the things that the mo...   Aug 31 2007, 04:30 AM
- - lunk   "The Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy" by ...   Sep 6 2007, 07:48 PM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (lunk @ Sep 7 2007, 01:48 AM)"The ...   Sep 6 2007, 09:09 PM
- - waterdancer   quoting Zap: QUOTE I still think, it doesn't a...   Sep 6 2007, 10:38 PM
- - waterdancer   QUOTE (Carl Bank @ Sep 7 2007, 01:09 AM)QUOTE...   Sep 6 2007, 10:42 PM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (waterdancer @ Sep 7 2007, 04:42 AM)Tho...   Sep 7 2007, 08:44 AM
- - lunk   Agreed! However I do believe that the improbab...   Sep 7 2007, 11:36 PM
- - lunk   oops, I lunked up. That should read, "infini...   Sep 16 2007, 12:15 AM
- - FM258   Im finally 42   Nov 2 2007, 08:39 PM
- - painter   QUOTE (FM258 @ Nov 2 2007, 04:39 PM)Im finall...   Nov 2 2007, 10:01 PM
- - lunk   QUOTE (painter @ Nov 2 2007, 06:01 PM)Yeah, b...   Nov 17 2007, 07:50 PM
- - painter   QUOTE (lunk @ Nov 17 2007, 03:50 PM)QUOTE (pa...   Nov 17 2007, 08:01 PM
- - lunk   Yes, the void, where nothing and no one exists, a...   Nov 17 2007, 11:59 PM
- - Philadelphia   Ideas that claim to 'debunk Christianity' ...   Nov 24 2007, 12:31 PM
|- - The artful dodger   QUOTE (Philadelphia @ Nov 24 2007, 11:31 ...   Jun 16 2008, 02:27 PM
- - Sanders   While I'm not religious, I found your (Philade...   Nov 24 2007, 01:15 PM
- - Philadelphia   Yes, Sanders, but your reference to Bohemia Grove ...   Nov 24 2007, 05:50 PM
- - Sanders   Possibly I didn't communicate well enough, I a...   Nov 25 2007, 12:52 AM
- - Philadelphia   There is the argument the different church denomin...   Nov 25 2007, 07:04 AM
- - lunk   Myth is good if it's known to be a fiction. Hi...   Nov 26 2007, 04:08 AM
- - Nunyabiz   Don't even know where to begin on this. I gues...   Mar 5 2008, 04:54 PM
|- - painter   QUOTE (Nunyabiz @ Mar 5 2008, 12:54 PM) ...   Mar 6 2008, 02:23 PM
- - lunk   Zeitgeist gave me a better understanding of the Bi...   Mar 6 2008, 10:35 AM
- - THE_DECIDER   anyone interested in taking a critical look at rel...   Mar 28 2008, 04:53 AM
- - Sanders   For the record, I dig Jordan Maxwell, and have l...   Jun 6 2008, 03:57 PM
|- - waterdancer   QUOTE (Sanders @ Jun 6 2008, 07:57 PM) 1....   Jun 16 2008, 03:16 AM
- - Sanders   Numbers 12 & 13 I live in Japan. Things...   Jun 6 2008, 05:36 PM
|- - lunk   QUOTE (Sanders @ Jun 6 2008, 02:36 PM) Nu...   Jun 10 2008, 05:38 AM
- - Nunyabiz   " Factually, Isis was no virgin, Horus was ne...   Jun 13 2008, 09:37 AM
- - Sanders   By "factually", I meant as per the origi...   Jun 14 2008, 12:00 AM
- - Nunyabiz   well your first 2 sources are just "interpret...   Jun 15 2008, 01:58 PM
- - lunk   What can disappear in a puff of logic yet reappea...   Jun 15 2008, 08:39 PM
- - lunk   The newly anointed master free mason enters the ha...   Jun 17 2008, 12:10 AM
|- - Sanders   QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 20 2008, 10:10 PM) The ...   Jun 17 2008, 01:58 AM
- - Sanders   QUOTE (Waterdancer)Do you mean this list, Sanders?...   Jun 17 2008, 01:09 AM
- - lunk   Looks like the same music played with different in...   Jun 17 2008, 08:24 AM
- - Sanders   Lunk, you got a way with words. Yup. Why the...   Jun 17 2008, 12:09 PM
- - Devilsadvocate   I finally had a chance to download and watch ...   Nov 20 2008, 11:36 PM
- - lunk   That was a very good waffle. thx, lunk   Nov 21 2008, 01:10 AM
|- - Devilsadvocate   QUOTE (lunk @ Nov 21 2008, 05:10 AM) That...   Nov 21 2008, 10:21 PM
- - Sanders   I'm sticking some things here from a couple of...   Feb 3 2009, 04:02 AM
- - Willow   IMHO, it's a pity 'Zeitgeist's' in...   Mar 23 2009, 04:12 PM
- - Nunyabiz   Actually Zeitgeists interpretation of Christianity...   Apr 8 2009, 04:50 PM
|- - lunk   QUOTE (Nunyabiz @ Apr 8 2009, 01:50 PM) A...   Apr 8 2009, 11:42 PM
|- - Nunyabiz   QUOTE (lunk @ Apr 7 2009, 01:42 AM) Sande...   Apr 11 2009, 09:16 PM
|- - lunk   QUOTE (Nunyabiz @ Apr 11 2009, 06:16 PM) ...   Apr 13 2009, 08:55 AM
- - Willow   I agree, Lunk... on both points. I've seen so...   Apr 13 2009, 10:49 AM
- - maturin42   One observation that gets quoted often here in the...   Apr 13 2009, 11:42 AM
- - lunk   The thing about most religions, is that they give ...   Apr 14 2009, 05:11 PM

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