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9/11: John Lear - Disinformation? Cia Operative?

elreb
post Jun 4 2010, 10:55 PM
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tnemelckram,

Guess I'll be up late tonight.

Finally, someone with a clue.

I will answer all your questions.

I have more answers than questions.

Elreb

This post has been edited by elreb: Jun 4 2010, 11:00 PM
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tnemelckram
post Jun 5 2010, 03:22 AM
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Hi Again El Reb!

QUOTE
Tnemelckram, You are a very lucky person. . . . . . I agree with . . . John Lear . . ..
Now where you are lucky is in respect that John will answer your apparent questions, yet avoid mine! Seems odd to me!


I think that John sensibly recognizes that people who agree with him are not a problem, but that those who disagree with and question him are a problem. Problems have to be dealt with first, so he naturally tends to favor doing that. He's an iconoclast and original thinker who poses good questions for debate with conventional thinkers, so by nature he seems to expect, welcome and enjoy reverse challenges to his own provocative ideas. He knows his stuff well and gives confident and direct answers. So I don't see anything odd. He seems to be doing what the open minded and formidable guy that we all respect should do.

John has very astutely identified the weakest point in my argument - a key prop is our current science in quantum mechanics and the relationship of the small quantum world to the large Relativistic world. I agree there's reason for doubt there because the two haven't been tied together in a unified theory and actually continue to have some conflicts. So when I read what our best physicists have to say I often ask "how the hell do you know that?' It seems like they are skywriting or making it up as they go along. So if f aliens have developed some way to do interstellar transits, I suppose it would be by making use of "damn quantum jumping" or as Einstein called it "spooky action at a distance" - which has not yet been resolved with Relativity.

QUOTE
John had once stated that most (if not all) UFO’s are man made and real Aliens are in plain sight.


I think the part of the statement I put in bold - all UFO's are man made - .is very likely true. I know that they have shown incredible flight characteristics and other behavior that presumably was or still is beyond human technology. Still, advanced, secret, human built, undisclosed flying objects are a far simpler explanation than one requiring the huge leap into aliens so far advanced that they can do something beyond our comprehension - interstellar transits near, at or over the speed of light.

The fact that all witnesses have described the appearance and behavior of UFO's in terms that are comparative and relative to known human aircraft or other objects is pretty suggestive. "Looked like a saucer" or "too fast for a fighter". I recall one credible estimate of 9000mph speed, but that also means "little less than 3 times faster than SR 71 and little more than half Apollo's escape velocity".

It would make a huge difference if remote control was used instead of a human pilot. That takes away safety and life support concerns. You can do a lot more things and try and fail at even more things on the way. You can try craft with any ridiculous shape, made from anything, and try to make it do 90 degree turns and/or fly 10 times faster than a regular plane. This might make it possible to make, or at least try, something that looks and behaves like any reported UFO.

Finally, is it any coincidence that the Extraterrestrial Highway runs past the Groom Lake Military Test Flight Facility?
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johnlear
post Jun 5 2010, 10:47 AM
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Sheldon day asked her for a telephone interview for his radio program and here is her response:

From: orbpublishing@msn.com
To: gem3intucson@q.com
Subject: Re: TUCSON,AZ. TALK-SHOW HOST FOR PARI SPOLTER..
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 19:30:59 -0800


Dear Sheldon Day,

Thank you for your email. My only son, David 44, died March 19. It has been very hard on me.

I appreciate your invitation for a Radio Interview. I do not think I will be a good guest. I do not hear too good. It would be better if you interview John Lear. He has read my book and all my papers. He has asked me many challenging and smart questions in our correspondences. He has a special gift to popularize difficult scientific material and present it in an interesting way. If you pass through Los Angeles, you may want to come to our house for a face to face Interview.

Regards,
Pari Spolter
17648 Arvida Drive
Granada Hills, CA 91344
orbpublishing@msn.com
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elreb
post Jun 5 2010, 02:32 PM
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tnemelckram…

As to quote #1, it is my understanding that what you can see and not see depends upon whether you are at rest or in motion. I could not see a bullet fired from a gun if I were standing next to it but if I were traveling at 1500 mph I could. I agree that you would not need to orbit the Earth at the speed of light, just simply a fast enough speed to render you un-seeable by a person at rest.

As far as man-made objects traveling at the speed of light, I envision the craft traveling on a distortion in space rather than traveling at that speed on its own…somewhat like a ball floating on a calm lake being moved by waves caused by a landslide. Gravity can be considered as a distortion.

As to quote #2, most astronomers, physicist and cosmologists have more questions than answers because they are on the wrong road.

We live in a “Constant State” system which is in a constant state of change, with no beginning and no end. Stars are born, they live, they die, and lastly they become planets or moons. Planets appear different because they are in different stages of cooling.

Who ever came up with the ‘Big Bang” is an idiot. If for example, matter is neither created nor destroyed…then where did all the original matter of the “Big Bang” come from? You would need more than one Universe to pull it off.

I my “Constant State” universe, nothing is the same age therefore tons of Solar Systems have had millions, if not billions of years, head start.

To that extent, I can’t help but wonder where “Intelligence” came from. Just being human doesn’t make you smart. Intelligence seems to have arrived in the last 13,000 years and from that we learned to make metal tools, build structures, create a written language and start taxing people.

Another creation of Intelligence is War. Recorded history is nothing but one War after another. (Welcome to America)

Intelligence was brought here either as a punishment comparable to Australia being a penal colony or by necessity as if their world was being destroyed.

Needless to say they had “Science” first and only bits and pieces survived to our time.

Their Science was simpler because they got it right the first time unlike us. We are knuckleheads because we are educated by knuckleheads. Our job is to question the garbage we are feed.

As to quote #3, I stay in the 12ly range because it is a livable range and would include those Solar Systems closest to us. I think of it the other way around as to how far I would be willing to travel.

I specifically zero in on 8.6 ly because the “Pup” supernovae 13,000 years ago causing its life forms to move or die. They may have travelled to multiple planets. The sad part is only x-presidents get boarding passes.

As to #4, Important Note- 911 is not the only “Fat Rat” we are being fed but that’s another thread.

And for the record, I don’t believe in UFOs.

This post has been edited by elreb: Jun 5 2010, 03:35 PM
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lunk
post Jun 5 2010, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jun 5 2010, 11:32 AM) *
We live in a “Constant State” system which is in a constant state of change, with no beginning and no end. Stars are born, they live, they die, and lastly they become planets or moons. Planets appear different because they are in different stages of cooling.


Hmm, i think it's better then that.
Everything is growing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJfBSc6e7QQ
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elreb
post Jun 5 2010, 03:32 PM
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Lurk...

Wow...I love it...its prefect...like water expanding as it turns to ice.

The Earth is growing.

Yippie


1.The Pangea theory is completely wrong.
2. There is no Laurasia.
3. There is/was no Godswanaland
4. There was no Tethys Sea.
5. Finally it means that dinosaurs migrated (as Neal said) from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere as only birds do now.

http://www.nealadams.com/EarthProject/antipangea.html

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lunk
post Jun 5 2010, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jun 5 2010, 12:32 PM) *
Lurk...

Wow...I love it...its prefect...like water expanding as it turns to ice.

The Earth is growing.

Yippie


1.The Pangea theory is completely wrong.
2. There is no Laurasia.
3. There is/was no Godswanaland
4. There was no Tethys Sea.
5. Finally it means that dinosaurs migrated (as Neal said) from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere as only birds do now.

http://www.nealadams.com/EarthProject/antipangea.html


Part of the reason i like being here,
pilots must think in 3D.

Non-pilots tend to think of the world,
as a 2D road map.

And we know there are more dimensions.
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elreb
post Jun 5 2010, 06:02 PM
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Lurk…sorry but I owe you one

Needless to say, this literally expands my model of the Universe.

When a Star collapses, it is more compressed and very hot. Over time, as it cools it also expands. With the addition of water the process is accelerated.

I have always argued against Pangea and Godswanaland but never knowing why.

The real point is that only a dead Star could act this way. thumbsup.gif
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lunk
post Jun 5 2010, 06:12 PM
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If we can't figure out the true workings of this universe, while we are in it,
how can we ever expect to figure out the workings of the next universe,
if there is one?
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elreb
post Jun 5 2010, 07:44 PM
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Lurk…

Well, seeing as you brought up the subject, we can and do have other Universes.

A Universe should not be confused with “Space” as they are not the same.

Space is what you have when you remove everything.

A Universe is like an elastic soap bubble that is enclosed yet not perfect.

Due to the rule of “All possibilities” every now and again a “Black Planet” can pass thru or beyond the event horizon of its Universe. Once you are outside the bubble, you are no longer affected by the rules of your former Universe. Party time!

“Black Planets” mis-titled as holes are very dense objects and like a pregnant Salmon, when conditions are right, will release all of its stored babies or potential babies.

This in effect, could be titled as a “Big Bang”, but the matter would be very old.

Today, we call it recycling. But even in this baby Universe, it does not act like the Scientist clowns have told you. As you stated, a Pilot lives in a 4 dimensional world because time is a factor.

Because “Black Planets” carry history, they also carry rules that govern what comes next.
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johnlear
post Jun 5 2010, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jun 3 2010, 05:32 PM) *
And for the record, I don’t believe in UFOs.



Well shoot! That explains everything.
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elreb
post Jun 6 2010, 06:02 PM
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Also caulk up Spirits, devils, demons, big foot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Nuk-luk, Jesus, Nessie, Ogopogo , and other modern-day myths, as a mix of hoaxes and wishful thinking.

Words like UFO and Conspiracy Theory are given negative conations to cover up reality.

I agree with tnemelckram…” Undisclosed Flying Objects” are a far simpler explanation.
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lunk
post Jun 6 2010, 07:20 PM
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Believing in something, without evidence,
is the same as not believing in something,
without evidence.

And debating beliefs usually leads to frustration, or worse.

i know, and have met people, who claim they have actually seen unexplainable flying objects, and i know most of them were not joking, but all i have to go on,
is their own understanding of their experience.

i have taken a few pictures that have had moving lights (orbs?) in them in the middle of the day, that i didn't know i even pictured.
And there was two group photos where i appeared to be shrouded in mist, (i wasn't),
but in 2 separate photographs. everyone else around me, looked clearly normal.
Really weird.

Two properties of photography is that it can grab a moment of time shorter than we can see, and normal cameras can pick up some frequencies outside normal vision.

There were some dark orbs discovered in separate simultaneous pictures,
i think in the x-ray, band in the corona of the sun, taken from satellites.
NASA said it was just cosmic rays, of course.

Could these be the black-body planets that you are talking about?
Like spores of the universe?
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elreb
post Jun 6 2010, 09:02 PM
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Lurk…asked, Could these be the black-body planets that you are talking about? Like spores of the universe?

Good observation, thanks for reading my gooblygook.

In the simplest of terms, natural objects in Space will emit light as a Star does, it can reflect light as a white planet/moon does or it can absorb light as a black planet.

It is understood that all electromagnetic forces can be glumped together as “Light”.

Two “Stars” for Lurk
: One for “Expanding planets” and one for “Spores of the Universe”.

Black Planets are proof that you can exceed the “Speed of Light” and what they do with that energy is another subject.

It is thought that a Black Planet is located at the core of the Milky Way. I would suggest that there are several hundred Black Planets spread thru out our Galaxy.

In a “Constant State” system, you must allow for growth and Black Planets are the perfect candidate to act as a “Spore”.

Generically pre disposed to growth. Think about it…where does all the material come from to build new Stars?
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lunk
post Jun 7 2010, 11:11 PM
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i deleted the last 3 posts as requested by Elreb.
(hope that's ok with you John)
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elreb
post Jun 7 2010, 11:39 PM
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Gosh Lunk,

I owe you 3 perks now. (One for calling you Lurk)

I apologize once again to John.

I was watching “Collateral Murder” and was very upset.

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lunk
post Jun 8 2010, 08:42 PM
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Thinking about extra-terrestrials a little more...

The universe is a vast place of space.
Life as we know it, requires,
water, energy, and gravity to grow.
Water has been found, throughout the universe.
but the only energy source are fundamentally, stars.

So if one was looking for aliens, in the universe,
they should find them around stars, absorbing energy.

...i know, "they're just cosmic rays."
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elreb
post Jun 8 2010, 09:34 PM
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BINGO,

Stars emit energy and planets reflect much of it.

Sure wish Tnemelkram would engage.

Heck, he am smart two.
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tnemelckram
post Jun 8 2010, 09:34 PM
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Hi El Reb! And thanks for the interest!

1.
QUOTE
As far as man-made objects traveling at the speed of light, I envision the craft traveling on a distortion in space rather than traveling at that speed on its own…somewhat like a ball floating on a calm lake being moved by waves caused by a landslide. Gravity can be considered as a distortion.


I agree that is a possible way to do the trick. It might also make even the faster than light travel that Mr. Lear posits possible. As I said, another possible way is by exploiting something related to the failure to unify the Relativities with Quantum Mechanics (IIRC, in particular with electromagnetism and/or Gravity?)

2.
QUOTE
I my “Constant State” universe, nothing is the same age therefore tons of Solar Systems have had millions, if not billions of years, head start.


I agree that the universe could be Constant State.

( a )But even in such a universe, you would have a constant cycle in which intelligent civilizations with such head starts die out instead of their number remaining constant or ever-growing. You sort of make this point here:
QUOTE
Another creation of Intelligence is War. Recorded history is nothing but one War after another. . . . . .Intelligence was brought here either as a punishment comparable to Australia being a penal colony or by necessity as if their world was being destroyed.


( b ) In addition, such advanced civilizations would have to be at a point where they are interested in communicating with us. Such interest is consistent with the apparent repeat visits suggested by the many sightings since 1947 and must be the case if, as some say, there have been such communications with government that we aren't being told about. But I think it's a leap to presuppose any interest in communicating with us because: (i) if they are so far advanced, it should be obvious to them that they have nothing to gain from it; so (ii) any window of time where they would be both just advanced enough for interstellar transit but not so advanced to preclude such benefit must be small.

3.
QUOTE
I agree with tnemelckram…” Undisclosed Flying Objects” are a far simpler explanation.

I see three possible meanings:
( a ) The UFO's are advanced human craft which haven't been disclosed to us, as I suggest.
( b ) The government knows that they are advanced alien craft but hasn't disclosed that to us.
( c ) Or, taking what I say a bit further, aliens UFO's exist but haven't disclosed themselves to us yet because they all traveled past us at speeds approaching, at or beyond that of light. If they are all too fast for us to see in the first place, none of the reported UFO sightings would be of the real alien UFOs!
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elreb
post Jun 8 2010, 10:38 PM
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Tnemelckram,

You and Lunk are unbelievably brilliant.


One of my major points is that being human…does “not” make you smart, let alone “Intelligent”.

Most animal are more “Intelligent” than humans. .Animals kill; to survive and humans kill because it’s fun.

If I were an advanced civilization, why on god’s earth, would I want to communicate with trash!

We are an experiment that went bad.

My family, including myself has been involved in every “War” since the Revolution.

Would you really want to talk to the “CIA”? Water boarding is like going to the dentist.

No pain…no gain!
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