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Did United 175 Crashed In Pennsyvania?, at 9:22am?

Zaphod 36
post Aug 5 2010, 09:07 AM
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Researcher Woody recently found out that United 175 was in Pennsylvani even after the official crash time at 9:03am. Link
According to the ACARS messages via ground station MDT (Harrisburg) the plane was near Harrisburg at 08:59 and 09:03am. The last ACARS message was sent by Ed Ballinger at 09:23 via RGS PIT(Pittsburgh), indicating that United 175 was in the vicinity of Pittsburgh. Ballinger obviously received a signal from PIT shortly before but not any signal after 09:23am.

Around this time in this area occured a seismic event(09:22am 60 miles from Shanksville). It was reported by the Daily Mirror(can`t find the article) and WND. According to Daily Mirror, it was caused by a fighter jet. Here is a map with the seismic station:



Ed Hearing, a specialist for seismic events, denies that it was caused by a sonic boom. Link.

What has caused the seismic event at 09:22? Was it an explosion, caused by an airplane crash of United 175?


I was searching for indications for this assumption:
The first was the presence of United 175 in this area at this time according to ACARS. There was no signal afterwards.

-The call of Peter Hanson to his father at 09:00.03am Link:

"It's getting bad, Dad -- A stewardess was stabbed -- They seem to have knives and Mace -- They said they have a bomb -- It's getting very bad on the plane -- Passengers are throwing up and getting sick -- The plane is making jerky movements -- I don't think the pilot is flying the plane -- I think we are going down -- I think they intend to go to Chicago or someplace and fly into a building -- Don't worry, Dad -- If it happens, it'll be very fast -- My God, my God."

"intend to go to Chicago" - this implicates that the plane probably was flying westbound. I think Hanson would have recognised if his plane had made a turn back to the east and also has seen the position of the sun. Btw, this call lasted 192 seconds hence ending at 9:03:15, 4 seconds after Hansons "official" plane crashed into the WTC 2. Thanks to Woody!

-The Call of Brian Sweeney: "I might have to hang up quickly, we're going to try to do something about this,"
The widow of a Gulf War veteran aboard doomed United Airline Flight 175 revealed for the first time yesterday that passengers tried to stop hijackers from crashing the plane into one of the Trade Center towers.Link
If the plane was crashing at 09:22 there was enough time for the passengers to take over the plane. A revolt could be the reason for the crash.

-The stabbed stewardess:

Hanson mentioned a stabbed flight attendent two times. Link. In his call at 09:00 he specified "a stewardess"
Flight attendant Fangman at 9/11 Commission: A flight attendant on Flight 175 calls the United Airlines maintenance office in San Francisco and speaks with Marc Policastro, an employee there. The attendant reports that Flight 175 has been hijacked, both of its pilots have been killed, a flight attendant has been stabbed, and the hijackers are probably flying the plane. The line then goes dead.

Its not clear if two or one flight attendant(s) were stabbed, but it was a stewardess for sure.


CVR of Flight 93

In the phone calls of the passengers of Flight 93 nobody mentionded a stabbed stewardess. But according to the 9/11 Commission:
"The cockpit voice recorder data indicate that a woman, most likely a flight attendant, was being held captive in the cockpit. She struggled with one of the hijackers who killed or otherwise silenced her."
Hanson on United 175 mentioned a stabbed stewardess.

The CVR lasts 31 minutes and 13 seconds. If the hijacking on United 175 began around 08:51am, the length of the CVR would fit to the alleged crash time of 09:22am. The first two calls of United 175 were made at 08:52am. The length for Flight 93 is not fitting because the seismic crash time was 10:06am and the CVR ends at 10:03am. The Cleveland messages of Flight 93 on the CVR consequently should have been copied and pasted.


Conclusion:

Do you think its possible that United 175 was crashing at 09:22am in Pennsylvania and the CVR of Flight 93 actually is from United 175?

If this crash theory is possible, could United 175 been crashed in Shanksville or another place in the Harrisburg-Pittsburgh area?
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amazed!
post Aug 8 2010, 01:20 PM
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Fascinating expose of the mythical telephone conversations offered up by the government, thanks very much.

But no, there was no Boeing at Shanksville, according to every person that said anything about it there, that day. There was nothing but some weird looking papers, some burnt grass, and not much else.

Nothing to conclude that a 757 had just crashed there.
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bobcat46
post Aug 21 2010, 07:03 PM
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No, there is no way a B-757 crashed at Shanksville. Compare that crash to every other crash in the world and it is so very different. What small amount of debris that was found was buried there before the 500 lb or whatever lb bomb went into that crater. The excuse is that the "soft earth" allowed the plane to be totally consumed into the earth. If that were so means that the decleration of the airframe would be far less than hitting a hard surface and there should have been large pieces of the plane pulled out of that hole. When planes impace water, there are still some rather large pieces, including engines. where are the pictures of all the stuff coming out of the hole? NTSB ALWAYS collect all the parts and put them in a hanger, but there is no record or pictures of a pile of debris that came out of that hole.

Besides, as the front of the plane impacts the ground, no matter how soft, the airframe would be decelerating and that would mean there should be some large pieces of the tail section....somewhere.

And.....there is no way all the debris from a B-757 could have fit into that hole, even if compacted in a compactor!!

It just amazes me how there are so many well educated people in America that are so stupid. Educations does not equate to intelligence.
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lex
post Aug 21 2010, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (bobcat46 @ Aug 21 2010, 08:03 PM) *
No, there is no way a B-757 crashed at Shanksville. Compare that crash to every other crash in the world and it is so very different. What small amount of debris that was found was buried there before the 500 lb or whatever lb bomb went into that crater. The excuse is that the "soft earth" allowed the plane to be totally consumed into the earth. If that were so means that the decleration of the airframe would be far less than hitting a hard surface and there should have been large pieces of the plane pulled out of that hole. When planes impace water, there are still some rather large pieces, including engines. where are the pictures of all the stuff coming out of the hole? NTSB ALWAYS collect all the parts and put them in a hanger, but there is no record or pictures of a pile of debris that came out of that hole.

Besides, as the front of the plane impacts the ground, no matter how soft, the airframe would be decelerating and that would mean there should be some large pieces of the tail section....somewhere.

And.....there is no way all the debris from a B-757 could have fit into that hole, even if compacted in a compactor!!

It just amazes me how there are so many well educated people in America that are so stupid. Educations does not equate to intelligence.

it's a shame Well educated folks can't accept this information because it causes their brain to defragment like a computor.. there is so much official info that does not add up for me anyway...i will leave all the nitty gritty to you guys it is above my skills... all i know is when a jumbo jet crashes it leaves wreckage ...no matter what... i saw the twin towers "Explode"... i may be a retired paramedic and soon to be commercial pilot but my intellegence has been so insulted... the truth must come out and it will prevail... i respect you all... thanks
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amazed!
post Aug 22 2010, 02:19 PM
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Exactly Lex--there is something to be said for common sense.

Alot to be said for common sense, and that's what's lacking from our culture these days, or so it seems.
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Zaphod 36
post Aug 22 2010, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE
What small amount of debris that was found was buried there before the 500 lb or whatever lb bomb went into that crater. The excuse is that the "soft earth" allowed the plane to be totally consumed into the earth. If that were so means that the decleration of the airframe would be far less than hitting a hard surface and there should have been large pieces of the plane pulled out of that hole.

My thought is if it is possible that United 175 was crashing at Shanksville at 09:22am and totally destroyed by a bomb at 10:06am. In this scenario the plane must have been crashed nearly unnoticed, with low speed and a steep angle. The few witnesses must have been gagged.
In the other scenario the plane must have been crashed at an unknown place in PA at 9:22. The crater with the wing imprints then must been digged and filled out with scrap in the time between 09:22 and 10:06am. I guess this is not enough time.

If you think the crater with wing imprints was only prepared and bombed at 10:06am, can you please explain what the reason was for the perpetrators to do such a thing?


I also would like to know if it is possible for ACARS to receive a signal from a crashed plane or if there could be a time lag? (signal 09:23; "sonic boom" 09:22)
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DoYouEverWonder
post Aug 22 2010, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (Zaphod 36 @ Aug 22 2010, 05:15 PM) *
My thought is if it is possible that United 175 was crashing at Shanksville at 09:22am and totally destroyed by a bomb at 10:06am. In this scenario the plane must have been crashed nearly unnoticed, with low speed and a steep angle. The few witnesses must have been gagged.
In the other scenario the plane must have been crashed at an unknown place in PA at 9:22. The crater with the wing imprints then must been digged and filled out with scrap in the time between 09:22 and 10:06am. I guess this is not enough time.

If you think the crater with wing imprints was only prepared and bombed at 10:06am, can you please explain what the reason was for the perpetrators to do such a thing?


I also would like to know if it is possible for ACARS to receive a signal from a crashed plane or if there could be a time lag? (signal 09:23; "sonic boom" 09:22)

Plane usually burn and there should have been lot's of black billowing smoke from a real crash site. That sort of thing is hard to cover up.

However, I could imagine someone firing a couple of missiles to make the damage that was supposed to look like a plane?

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Aug 22 2010, 05:21 PM
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bobcat46
post Aug 22 2010, 09:24 PM
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I have looked and looked at the pictures of the crash site hole prior to any excavations by responders and it just looks too "perfect." I just can't imagine how a B-757 could get into a perfectly vertical flight path with do angular momentum, even if stalled. It seems to me that there would have been some kind of forward or angular momentum that would have caused a large piece of the tail assembly to not follow the rest of the airframe into the ground. They claim to have found one of the engines in a nearby pond, that it hit the ground and bounced over into the pond. If it had that much forward momentum that the engine went that far into a pond and not into the ground, then the tail assembly would not have followed the rest of the fusalage into the hole. Just how handy was it that the plane supposedly fell into very soft distrubed earth (fill) and made a perfect, and I mean perfect, imprint of a plane, wings and all. It's all just too perfect.

A B-757 could not have crashed that day at Shanksville.
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onesliceshort
post Aug 23 2010, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE
However, I could imagine someone firing a couple of missiles to make the damage that was supposed to look like a plane?


Or an underground detonation in a shallow bunker planted with scrap plane parts? Less risky and more controlled IMHO.

Speculation I know, but I have a feeling that the "little white plane" Susan McIlwaine described in the area is the key to how the op was executed as well.

Her interview still blows my mind.
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poppyburner
post Dec 3 2013, 10:52 PM
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The following post is admittedly quite half-baked; so don't take it too seriously.

QUOTE (Zaphod 36 @ Aug 22 2010, 09:15 PM) *
My thought is if it is possible that United 175 was crashing at Shanksville at 09:22am and totally destroyed by a bomb at 10:06am. In this scenario the plane must have been crashed nearly unnoticed, with low speed and a steep angle. The few witnesses must have been gagged.
In the other scenario the plane must have been crashed at an unknown place in PA at 9:22.


Here's a video demonstrating such a scenario:



'How the 747 crashed in Afghanistan'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVL8RifMQ-s

Bearing in mind, that its hijacking is said to have started at 9:28 A.M. (and despite being a little further than 60 miles from Shanksville); I'm thinking it more likely for United Drone Flight 93*, than 175.

*Not to be confused with the more widely-suspected: white drone. Which I believe, faked the final leg of 93's flight path.

On Sept 11th 2001, CBS News reported that Flight 93 had crashed into the vicinity of or at Camp David.
Plus, a Hercules C-130 reported to the FAA, that 93 was: "down", "on the ground" and "blew up"; North East of Camp David:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBRSM1BqKHw

Looking at a map: FEMA's National Emergency Training Center is just North East of Camp David.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=national+e...ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg



Marked with a plane icon and situated beside a very large plot of perhaps sandy wasteland.

Is it difficult to believe that they (who some say were away in New York on Sept 10th 2001: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-4iSuq1qaE) had facilities for putting out aircraft fires?

'What is the distance between Harrisburg International Airport (MDT), 1 Terminal Drive #300, Middletown, PA 17057, USA and National Emergency Training Center, Emmitsburg, MD 21727, USA? Flying distance: 47 Miles'

'What is the distance between National Emergency Training Center, Emmitsburg, MD 21727, USA and Shanksville, PA, USA? Flying distance: 88 Miles' ~

http://www.distancebetweencitiescalculator...h.kgHyC0nb.dpuf

For a C-130H, travelling at maximum speed (366mph); that's about quarter of an hour away. Giving approx. 25 minutes, to: hose down, scoop up and airdrop choice clumps of wreckage, beside two bomb-containing craters (perhaps affording as many attempts); dug and temporarily hidden under marquees.





QUOTE
DoYouEverWonder
Plane usually burn and there should have been lot's of black billowing smoke from a real crash site. That sort of thing is hard to cover up.


But if the plane was filled, only with say: 5 minutes of fuel?
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