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Where Are Pilots For Chemtrail Truth?, We need whistleblower pilots to expose chemtrails

JimMac
post Mar 2 2014, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 2 2014, 04:43 PM) *
A court opinion can have some bearing in a civil case, but in a criminal case against government I'm afraid you would need plausible evidence (-for multiple purposes from obtaining warrants to winning the case - and I would bet photos of the pylon drainers and skies with plane trails will be not enough for proving conspiracy of planetary genocide rolleyes.gif). And that's what Rob offers - to help acquire it for the chemtrails truthers, while I can't quite understand why you tell us it is not necessary.
I was myself repeatedly watching very suspicious multiple big airplane activities in the skies on the France-Spain mountainous border, clearly outside usual commercial flight corridors, always early in the morning just before sunrise which in dependence on the wind often resulted in whole sky covered by quite weird haze for the rest of the day and whenever a hole appeared due to uneven winds over the mountains a plane appeared and filled it. I would like to know what they were doing there and what s*it they were using for it. You not?


Stop and think about the idea, its not a simple as it sounds. Look at nanothermite as an example, and Neils Harrit. In order to demonstrate any 'believable' outcome the testing organization would need to be a corporate identity with credibility. Then you run into the 'scientific method', the result would need to be repeatable. Then there is the likelihood that there are several compounds in use, not always the same. The idea that you can jump in a plane like some cowboy on a horse and test for chemtrails with a useful outcome is more fantasy than reality. The truth these days, is whatever the PTB want it to be, recall what Karl Rove said:

We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” - Karl Rove

Jim

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tumetuestumefais...
post Mar 2 2014, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (JimMac @ Mar 2 2014, 10:13 AM) *
Stop and think about the idea, its not a simple as it sounds. Look at nanothermite as an example, and Neils Harrit. In order to demonstrate any 'believable' outcome the testing organization would need to be a corporate identity with credibility. Then you run into the 'scientific method', the result would need to be repeatable. Then there is the likelihood that there are several compounds in use, not always the same. The idea that you can jump in a plane like some cowboy on a horse and test for chemtrails with a useful outcome is more fantasy than reality. The truth these days, is whatever the PTB want it to be, recall what Karl Rove said:

We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” - Karl Rove

Jim

Whatever.
I think that if you take air samples in prescribed airsample containers, documenting the source, (best if you also can overhear Mode 3 and Mode-S and find out the tailnumber - todays high definition cameras, picture stabilizers and telelenses could make it possible), having witnesses for chain of samples custody and you send it to the certified airquallity lab for analysis, I think the results - if finding it contains high levels of exotic pollutants - hardly could be rejected as inadmissible evidence and in fact could serve as probable cause for warrant to seize the aircraft for inspection.
Establishing forensic evidence has hardly anything direct with repeatability in the method of scientific discovery, the criminal investigation is not a scientific research it is providing plausible evidence for purposes of investigation and prosecution. And anyway if you would have multiple well documented airsamples repeatedly containing high levels of exotic pollutants it iself would constitute repeated pattern.
What I more see here as problem is corruption of the governments and who would there really be eager to pursue such case which would have potential not only get direct perpetrators into jail for long time, but to take the governments down with them.
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MikeR
post Mar 3 2014, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 3 2014, 08:43 AM) *
.... that's what Rob offers - to help acquire it for the chemtrails truthers, while I can't quite understand why you tell us it is not necessary.


What Rob offers is totally oxymoronic

What Rob WANTS is for some airplane owner who desperately needs
to bump the number of million flying hours for plane and pilot...

What Rob WANTS is
EITHER for said airplane and pilot to be in the air
24/7/366 ready to take a dive down to catch up with the first contrail seen...
OR
that the said airplane and pilot be at the ready on the tarmac 24/7/366 ...
pre-flight inspected and rarin' to go chasing after.... after what?

The HUGE increase in aluminum content in soils observed and measured
nationwide has to be caused.... needs to come from somewhere,
somehow.... and the worldwide phenomenon, of non-natural sky conditions
which are clearly of recent origin, could be the only cause.

Chemtrail denial will clutch at straws. My hair analysis shows a steady
increase in bodily-takeup of toxic barium... the hair shows the INCREASE
along the length of the hair. Russ Tanner almost lost his life because of
chemtrail spraying ... he can now share his experiences and teach any
who's willing to listen how to best manage the criminal spraying
that none of us was ever consulted on.
http://globalskywatch.com/stories/my-chemt...y/#.UxQIloW3tQI

Rob ..... if a chase plane ever collects a toxic-tainted sample from behind
a trail-blazing airplane, what assurance can you (or anybody) give us that
you or one of the debunkers here will open there minds to even that tiny
piece of evidence?

MikeR
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MikeR
post Mar 3 2014, 01:02 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 1 2014, 11:18 PM) *
... you MUST accept that anyone who flies in an airplane at the flight levels are breathing in a much higher concentration.


Most humans live at ground level, Rob

The ground-level concentration of aluminum increase in recent times has been HUGE
(I could quote figures, but you will be much more impressed by your own foray onto G**gl*)

How would your alleged "breathing in a much higher concentration" way up in the stratosphere relate to
the forests on earth withering and dying, and our crops struggling more each year?

Of course, I have no objection to your chase-plane-sampling idea.... just that the amount of
stuff you collect will be miniscule, and we already have untold tons of soil samples down
here on the ground. If "obvious" ain't sufficiently scientific to point us towards a
more productive line of inquiry I guess I'd best go back to talking no-planes 9/11
or something equally simple and....

...and obvious rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by MikeR: Mar 3 2014, 01:04 AM
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almerie
post Mar 3 2014, 02:18 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 2 2014, 11:25 AM) *
If you can't see anything odd about that photo then I am wasting my time with you.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/wp-cont...ature-image.jpg


I did not say that.

What I asked was what would make this picture seem less odd in your eyes.

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almerie
post Mar 3 2014, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 2 2014, 11:28 AM) *
Really? You've never heard the term, "It is the opinion of this court...."?


You are playing with words here.

The phrase 'It is the opinion of the court' is the term used for the courts verdict.

You also forget the long process before this phrase, which is weighing evidence in the case at hand.


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rob balsamo
post Mar 3 2014, 02:30 AM
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QUOTE (MikeR @ Mar 3 2014, 12:02 AM) *
Most humans live at ground level, Rob


You are correct, but thousands of humans also "live" in the air.... up to 8 hours a day, 30 hours per week, 100 hours per month, 1200 hours per year.

They are called Pilots. And those are only the domestic pilots. International pilots (and many passengers.. ie frequent flyers) "live" in the air for much longer durations.

To put this into perspective, although the ground concentrations show a "HUGE increase" (according to you), the dispersal of the substance by the time it hits the ground is like tilting your head back, opening your mouth and sipping rain drops. In contrast, when flying behind a "spraying" aircraft (or in any visible "chemtrail"), it would be like trying to take a sip off a fire hose. The cabin's would be filled with chemicals in concentrations MUCH higher than anything you would find on the ground, not only would every passenger/crew member need an O2 mask at all times, but you probably wouldn't even be able to see in the cabin. Airline passenger cabins are not a sealed unit. The air you breathe in a passenger cabin comes directly from outside the airplane, through the engines, it is then compressed and then dumped into the cabin for all the earthlings to consume. The cabin pressure is regulated by what is called an Outflow valve where all the other gasses escape, such as CO2 and gasses produced by your morning burrito.

Also keep in mind, the samples collected from the ground have no chain of custody from the air to the ground. In other words, it cannot be proven such samples came from an airplane. The only way to prove such details would be to fly behind an aircraft allegedly spraying, or through what one thinks is a result of spraying "chemtrails" such as the pic posted on this thread.


In fact, you could probably get such an experiment done with less than 100k if you want to charter an airplane for a week. An example, A light jet usually runs about 2500/hr (an older model Lear or Hawker). So if you were able to raise 100k, you would have 40 hours of flying to obtain samples from coast to coast, all week long. I think Alex raised 250k in his first "money bomb"? Should be a piece of cake for those who really want the truth regarding "chemtrails". The more you raise, the more you can fly, the better the results will be.

Let me know if you need phone numbers to some charter operators. I know several across the country that will be happy to serve.

Again, this theory is very easy to prove. All we need is an airplane. And then finally we will have conclusive proof either way, in which no one will be able to ignore.
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weth
post Mar 3 2014, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 2 2014, 04:52 PM) *
4. I agree with Rob, that it would be a great idea but it's not necessary. No more necessary than we would have to make up models of actual size WTC towers and control demolition them to prove they were in fact demolished by explosives.


You cannot compare an event which was in the past with an alleged event which occurs (in your opinion) nearly every day, leaving detectable traces behind.

To proof the idea of chemtrails, you must come out of the closet and show the (in this case easily reproducible) scientific proof via lab tests.
My preditiction: negative.
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JimMac
post Mar 3 2014, 03:04 AM
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QUOTE (weth @ Mar 3 2014, 02:35 AM) *
You cannot compare an event which was in the past with an alleged event which occurs (in your opinion) nearly every day, leaving detectable traces behind.

To proof the idea of chemtrails, you must come out of the closet and show the (in this case easily reproducible) scientific proof via lab tests.
My preditiction: negative.


Good 2nd post. Let me guess you were just driving by and noticed the chemtrail conversation...
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tumetuestumefais...
post Mar 3 2014, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE (MikeR @ Mar 2 2014, 05:51 PM) *
The HUGE increase in aluminum content in soils observed and measured
nationwide

Source of the HUGE claim?
And because aluminium is very reactive and more or less never found in nature in its elemental state, but forms different compounds in different environment I would like to know in which form is the aluminium which according to you hugely increases in soils nationwide.

QUOTE
has to be caused.... needs to come from somewhere,
somehow.... and the worldwide phenomenon, of non-natural sky conditions
which are clearly of recent origin, could be the only cause.

One thing is interesting: You know how aluminium is called in the Czech language? "Hliník". What's the etymology of the word "hliník" in the Czech language? It comes from the word "hlína". The translation of the word "hlína" in the narrow sense is "loam", but in fact the word is generally used as "clay", "soil", "earth", "dirt".
Why is it? Could it be because In the Earth's crust, aluminium is the most abundant (8.3% by weight) metallic element and the third most abundant of all elements (after oxygen and silicon).

QUOTE
Chemtrail denial will clutch at straws. My hair analysis shows a steady
increase in bodily-takeup of toxic barium... the hair shows the INCREASE along the length of the hair.

That's interesting. Could you please share with us your hair analysis charts and results?

QUOTE
Russ Tanner almost lost his life because of
chemtrail spraying ...

Is this a subjective opinion of Russ Tanner or he has an objective proof of it?

QUOTE
Rob ..... if a chase plane ever collects a toxic-tainted sample from behind
a trail-blazing airplane, what assurance can you (or anybody) give us that
you or one of the debunkers here will open there minds to even that tiny
piece of evidence?

I'm quite not sure why you cite me and talk to Rob. But for myself I must say I'm not a chemtrail debunker. I just want to see plausible evidence. So far I've seen only poorly sourced claims and pictures showing misidentified airplane parts.
But I must say I've also repeatedly seen on my own eyes something which very well could be chemtrail spraying activity and its resulted in for hours persistent sunscreen which it created in the sky. So I'm more than open to real evidence.
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Quest
post Mar 3 2014, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (almerie @ Mar 3 2014, 07:18 AM) *
I did not say that.

What I asked was what would make this picture seem less odd in your eyes.


Almerie, do you or do you not see anything odd in this photo? Yes or no? If yes, what is odd?

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/wp-cont...ature-image.jpg

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almerie
post Mar 3 2014, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 3 2014, 10:25 AM) *
Almerie, do you or do you not see anything odd in this photo? Yes or no? If yes, what is odd?

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/wp-cont...ature-image.jpg


This question can not be answered with a simple yes or no, because more information is needed:

1. At what exact global position or latitude/longitude was this photo taken?

2. What was the exact date and time (GMT).

3. What was the weather conditions, not only at ground level but also at higher altitudes prob. going up to 40000 ft. reported intervals for aviation purposes.

Do you know why I am asking you these questions?

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Hsaive
post Mar 3 2014, 01:59 PM
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We really don't need to collect samples.

Scientific observation has long confirmed that jet aircraft are spraying aerosols. However, it would be good to know what is in the air we breathe ... for the benefit of pilots, crew and passengers who have a right to know -- do they not?

Persistent contrails that litter the sky cannot possibly be formed under atmospheric conditions typical at flight level above 28K ft where relative humidity is almost always far below saturation.

Also, the efficiency of high-bypass engines makes contrail formation less likely than older low-pass engines since 80% of the thrust is generated by the turbo fan as opposed to combustion. We all know that combustion is required to produce the water vapor that ultimately becomes a normal "contrail", don't we?.

We are simply looking for a whistleblower to supply an account of the details and alleged motive.

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rob balsamo
post Mar 3 2014, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (Hsaive @ Mar 3 2014, 12:59 PM) *
We really don't need to collect samples.


If you keep posting threads such as, "Where Are the Pilots For Chemtrail Truth" (your second thread with such a title by the way), then you should not be surprised when asked for direct samples.

As you have seen, not many Pilots have an interest in "Chemtrails" due to the fact Pilots know how pressurization systems work, how many flights are airborne daily, containing thousands of humans. Again, if some people believe that Chemicals sprayed at the Flight Levels are killing people on the ground, then surely the thousands of people flying at altitude daily would already be dead or dying...? and the whole airline infrastructure would collapse...? economies across the world would freeze...? Trade would become stagnant....?

We have Pilots in our own organization alone with 25 - 30,000 hours flight time and are very healthy. How is that possible if they were/are flying in/among the "Chemtrails"?

With that said, I do feel that further investigation is required based on the information I have seen (If I didn't think so, this forum section would not exist... and perhaps I would ban the discussion altogether).

When I offer an avenue of how to get such evidence and conclusive proof, you then respond with, "We really don't need to collect samples"?

In that case... I suppose you have your answer to why there isn't a "Pilots For Chemtrail Truth".

Pilots require conclusive evidence before making any decision. A good example of this is an Instrument Pilot shooting an approach to minimums. From day 1, we are taught to evaluate multiple sources of data to continue the approach. We are taught the full "chain of custody" of such data (Systems Knowledge). We are taught, and it is proven, if the data does not add up, we go missed, or people may die.

By the way Harold, please use normal font. There is no need to enlarge and bold every word of your posts.
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tumetuestumefais...
post Mar 3 2014, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 3 2014, 03:25 AM) *

Actually very similar picture what is seen on the photograph I've seen repeatedly on my own eyes. It was on the foot of the Pyrenees at the mediteranian side on the border between Spain and France. It was always same pattern: In the very early morning, before sunrise I came to the wineyards on the steep slopes and watched for the sunrise. The shore is just miles away, but because the hills are very steep there one gets quickly in like 1500ft altitude and sees a big panorama (for idea something like this). If the sky was clear quite suddenly airplanes came one after another usual airroute around the shore which is the corridor from Perpignan for approach to Gerona and Barcelona airports. Then the planes went off course and turned inland into the mountains more or less right at the France-Spain border. And quite suddenly started to leave very thick trails. It took just like 10-15 minutes after they passed and the sky looked much like at the photograph, just the light was different because it was always just around the sun rised. The trails gradually dissolved into kind of a haze covering whole the sky, and sometimes, when there was low wind for it to blow it away it took many hours for the haze to disappear, sometimes until late afternoon. I've also noticed couple of times that whenever a hole appeared in the haze an airplane appeared there again diverting from the usual corridor and again leaved trails there which gradually dissolved and covered the hole. All this didn't look normal to me and it repeated itself in the similar pattern multiple times I was there watching it. The planes as far I can say were large double and four engine jets, flying very high until they disappeared over the montains.
But I'm asking myself why they would be doing this, on what purpose? Ther's nothing, just mountains and couple of small wine making towns and villages.

This post has been edited by tumetuestumefaisdubien: Mar 3 2014, 03:56 PM
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weth
post Mar 3 2014, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (MikeR @ Mar 3 2014, 06:51 AM) *
What Rob offers is totally oxymoronic
Why this? I can t see that this offer is contradictory.To the contrary, this offer should help you to get (scientific)proof of your claim.
So easy: you claim, you proof, and Rob even would help you to get a proof. Up to now there is no proof of chemtrails . So what?
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MikeR
post Mar 3 2014, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 3 2014, 06:30 PM) *
In contrast, when flying behind a "spraying" aircraft (or in any visible "chemtrail"), it would be like trying to take a sip off a fire hose.


The cabin's would be filled with chemicals in concentrations MUCH higher than anything you would find on the ground, not only would every passenger/crew member need an O2 mask at all times, but you probably wouldn't even be able to see in the cabin. Airline passenger cabins are not a sealed unit. The air you breathe in a passenger cabin comes directly from outside the airplane, through the engines, it is then compressed and then dumped into the cabin for all the earthlings to consume.

.... All we need is an airplane. And then finally we will have conclusive proof either way, in which no one will be able to ignore.


You're the Flight Instructor, Rob .... this visually-impaired geriatric you'd never want to try teaching is still might curious why your putative heavy-metal detecting airplane is flying so close to the jet-contrail exhaust of the plane in front?

If an idiot traffic cop were tailgating that close, she would be smart to position her squad car in the lane to one side or t'other for when not if the demented victim hits the stop button.

The typical SAG photo clearly shows that each aircraft lays a new chemtrail off to one side. The air the pressurized pilots breathe is accordingly not affected too much more than abnormal by the emissions from the lead kite.

I say ABnormal, because the experiment that I think you have in mind has been carried out at zero relative altitude and in supremely-simple scientific form as described in this short video. The air we merely human beings is collected, sampled from a fishbowl.

We beings should be horrified... if only we're smart enough.

This post has been edited by MikeR: Mar 3 2014, 06:55 PM
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MikeR
post Mar 3 2014, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 4 2014, 12:18 AM) *
(1) Source of the HUGE claim?

(2) That's interesting. Could you please share with us your hair analysis charts and results?

(3) Is this a subjective opinion of Russ Tanner or he has an objective proof of it?


(1) At the serious risk of debunkers accusing me of dodging direct hits...
I would respectfully suggest your G**gl* investigation search would be vastly more
acceptable to you than whatever I were to find under search terms such as
"aluminum soil analysis"

(2) Glad you find it interesting... in that case you will much prefer an expert opinion
to my singular typical case study. Dr. Russell Blaylock, retired neurosurgeon, neurotoxin expert and author...
admits that at first he was skeptical about chemtrail reports until he began noticing them himself.

Dr Blaylock has become aware of their aluminum content. He explains that aluminum nanoparticles
can enter the brain and spinal cord quickly through the lungs and nostrils, adding that nanoparticles
are much more inflammatory to tissue than other forms of environmental aluminum.

He sees a connection of chemtrails' aluminum deposits to the rise of neurodegenerative diseases,
especially among young people. He's talking about Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and Lou Gehrig's diseases,
not autism spectrum disorders from vaccines, which Dr. Blaylock has covered extensively.

Dr. Blaylock also expressed concern over the saturation of plant, crop life, and water with
aluminum nanoparticles. He thinks chemtrailing must be curbed before it's too late
to minimize the threat of constant aluminum toxicity surrounding us.

(3) If you or I woke up in hospital after a near-death experience, we might hope some others
wouldn't be too dismissive of our subjective experience... but do feel free to check

Russ Tanner shares a large amount of information from his own research experience,
as well as the objective results of others'

MikeR

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rob balsamo
post Mar 3 2014, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (MikeR @ Mar 3 2014, 05:51 PM) *
You're the Flight Instructor, Rob .... this visually-impaired geriatric you'd never want to try teaching is still might curious why your putative heavy-metal detecting airplane is flying so close to the jet-contrail exhaust of the plane in front?


In order to get samples of the substances you alleged, one does not have to fly directly behind another aircraft as I have already explained above.


All we have to do is fly through layers of visible/persistent "chemtrails".




Are you now saying the above photograph is not "chemtrails"?

Are the above "chemtrails" spread by only one aircraft?

If not, are the above "chemtrail" crews flying in a sealed cabin?

If not, are they wearing O2 masks while criss-crossing the sky?
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Quest
post Mar 3 2014, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 3 2014, 08:53 PM) *
Actually very similar picture what is seen on the photograph I've seen repeatedly on my own eyes. It was on the foot of the Pyrenees at the mediteranian side on the border between Spain and France. It was always same pattern: In the very early morning, before sunrise I came to the wineyards on the steep slopes and watched for the sunrise. The shore is just miles away, but because the hills are very steep there one gets quickly in like 1500ft altitude and sees a big panorama (for idea something like this). If the sky was clear quite suddenly airplanes came one after another usual airroute around the shore which is the corridor from Perpignan for approach to Gerona and Barcelona airports. Then the planes went off course and turned inland into the mountains more or less right at the France-Spain border. And quite suddenly started to leave very thick trails. It took just like 10-15 minutes after they passed and the sky looked much like at the photograph, just the light was different because it was always just around the sun rised. The trails gradually dissolved into kind of a haze covering whole the sky, and sometimes, when there was low wind for it to blow it away it took many hours for the haze to disappear, sometimes until late afternoon. I've also noticed couple of times that whenever a hole appeared in the haze an airplane appeared there again diverting from the usual corridor and again leaved trails there which gradually dissolved and covered the hole. All this didn't look normal to me and it repeated itself in the similar pattern multiple times I was there watching it. The planes as far I can say were large double and four engine jets, flying very high until they disappeared over the montains.
But I'm asking myself why they would be doing this, on what purpose? Ther's nothing, just mountains and couple of small wine making towns and villages.



Tume, small towns are target practice. Watch the following that occurred over a small town in the Pacific northwest and see what the locals and police have to say about plane activity just before the townsfolk got sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_RNcyWVIOI

This post has been edited by Quest: Mar 3 2014, 10:47 PM
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