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Wtc Core Design, How were they built

albertchampion
post Mar 1 2010, 09:49 PM
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perhaps i misunderstood wtc 7. wasn't it actually two buildings?

by that i mean that when salomon brothers became the primary tenet, and wanted an open and atrium like trading floor, to support that another structural steel was constructed within the exterior structural steel of the original 7.

so when 7 went down at virtual free fall speeds, everything falling into its foundation[which had to have been blown out as well] there was much more structural steel subjected to controlled demolition than the building's original structural steel components.

yes? or no?
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elreb
post Mar 1 2010, 10:54 PM
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"WTC core design" …should include all “WTC” buildings

What was so bad about WTC-7 core design to cause it to just fall down?

After WTC-1 and WTC-2 took a dump…why pick on WTC-7?

WTC-7 was at least 3 buildings if you include the Edison sub-station, Rudy’s bunker, HQ for about every important government group in NYC and oh yes Solomon Brothers.

We all remember that the Solomon building fell down on BBC before it...”Arggghhh”…fell down!

The good news is that NYC buildings only fall down when Earth passes thru the “Bush Galaxy” and the “Cheney Black Hole”.

I think that Christophera’s best point is…how did they do it? One column with a sharp angle does not bring down “Iron clad” engineering.
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DoYouEverWonder
post Mar 1 2010, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (albertchampion @ Mar 1 2010, 08:49 PM) *
perhaps i misunderstood wtc 7. wasn't it actually two buildings?

by that i mean that when salomon brothers became the primary tenet, and wanted an open and atrium like trading floor, to support that another structural steel was constructed within the exterior structural steel of the original 7.

so when 7 went down at virtual free fall speeds, everything falling into its foundation[which had to have been blown out as well] there was much more structural steel subjected to controlled demolition than the building's original structural steel components.

yes? or no?

Before there was a WTC 7, there was a building on the site that housed the ConEd Substation for lower Manhattan. They designed WTC 7 to go over the existing substation, which is something you wouldn't normally do when you build a hi rise. They had to set some of the columns through the existing building, which is a major pain in the ass to say the least and in order to reduce the number of penetrations through the existing structure, they used cantilevered transfer girders, which were installed between the 5th and 7th floors of the new building. The girders literally transferred load to the perimeter wall which, like the Towers, was made of structural steel and was load bearing. That's why it's floors 5-7 that would be key to bringing the building down. The 5th floor where Jerome Hauer installed lots of fuel storage tanks and a system of pressurized fuel pipes that ran the length of the building. WTC 7 was a sprinklered building, except for the 5th floor. Hauer didn't want to bother with putting a fuel suppression system there and he got away with it.
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amazed!
post Mar 2 2010, 11:20 AM
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Good joke, Elreb. thumbsup.gif

I am totally unqualified to comment on all the construction techniques, but this is a fascinating conversation to me.

The pictures that DYEW present do seem to show no concrete center column, but Christophera's point is somehow compelling, ESPECIALLY considering that (if true) Rudy and the court have successfully hidden away so much evidence.

Keep up the good work guys! blink.gif
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BADBURD
post Mar 2 2010, 02:01 PM
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This is a interesting picture. Is that hallway about 12 foot deep?

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kawika
post Mar 2 2010, 03:22 PM
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My next thought was to look for 1993 bombing pictures and see if they can tell us anything.

[/quote]

Gentlemen,

The 1993 bombing was under WTC3, not under either Tower. This 1993 bombing photo tells us nothing about the Tower core.

The Towers had a steel core. If they had a concrete core, you'd see massive quantities of formworks being set and replaced. Show us some forms!

I suggest that concrete core construction would slow the progress down while they wait for it to cure properly. Minimum seven days before they could remove the forms. Perhaps longer.
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BADBURD
post Mar 2 2010, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 2 2010, 01:22 PM) *
My next thought was to look for 1993 bombing pictures and see if they can tell us anything.



Gentlemen,

The 1993 bombing was under WTC3, not under either Tower. This 1993 bombing photo tells us nothing about the Tower core.

The Towers had a steel core. If they had a concrete core, you'd see massive quantities of formworks being set and replaced. Show us some forms!

I suggest that concrete core construction would slow the progress down while they wait for it to cure properly. Minimum seven days before they could remove the forms. Perhaps longer.


How does this photo have anything to do with the core? You totally lost me here.
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elreb
post Mar 2 2010, 06:02 PM
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My bad…you folks are correct.

It was the Vista/Marriott Hotel that was bombed in 1993.

Most news accounts and Wikipedia, don’t make this distinction.

I have learned something new…thanks.

handsdown.gif handsdown.gif
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Paul
post Mar 2 2010, 07:17 PM
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Here is a copy of the original NY times article, wtc 7 was a building within a building and yet we are supposed to believe it
came down due to structural failure my ass it did.

COMMERCIAL PROPERTY: The Salomon Solution; A Building Within a Building, at a Cost of $200 Million

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/19/realesta...ml?pagewanted=1

whistle.gif whistle.gif thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif
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elreb
post Mar 2 2010, 10:01 PM
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Personally, we have no reason to believe that there was any hanky-panky going on with WTC-1, WTC-2 and WTC-7. It is obvious that “Fuel Oil” can do anything.

''And the whole world is watching.''

''We built in enough redundancy to allow entire portions of floors to be removed without affecting the building's structural integrity…”

MORE than 375 tons of steel - requiring 12 miles of welding - will be installed to reinforce floors for Salomon's extra equipment. Sections of the existing stone facade and steel bracing will be temporarily removed so that workers using a roof crane can hoist

“…Nine diesel generators onto the tower's fifth floor, where they will become the core of a back-up power station”.

''This only reinforces that reputation.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/17/nyregion...ml?pagewanted=1

Lewis M. Eisenberg:

1. a partner of Goldman Sachs & Co.,
2. from 1995 to 2001 served as Chairman of the Board of Commissioners of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey,
3. Board of Directors of UJA/United Jewish Federation,
4. Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Larry “Pull it” Silverstein:

1. Silverstein was born in Bedford-Stuyvesant, in Brooklyn in 1931 into a Jewish family,
2. In 1980, Silverstein won a bid from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to construct 7 World Trade Center.
3. In January 2001, Silverstein, via Silverstein Properties and Westfield America, made a $3.2 billion bid for the lease to the World Trade Center. Silverstein was outbid by $50 million by Vornado Realty, with Boston Properties and Brookfield Properties also competing for the lease. However, Vornado withdrew and Silverstein's bid for the lease to the World Trade Center was accepted on July 24, 2001.

Frank Lowy & family:

1. Australian-Israeli businessman,
2. fought during the Israeli War of Independence,
3. His company Westfield paid $127 million for a 99-year lease on the retail area beneath the WTC towers in May 2001.

The absurdity…it is hilarious…it is ludicrous…to think that these three outstanding American patriots would ever conspire with Israeli Demolitions Experts to kill over 3000 US citizens just to simply make money by starting a fake war with their historical enemy.

GIVE ME A BREAK!
doh1.gif
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DoYouEverWonder
post Mar 2 2010, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE
“…Nine diesel generators onto the tower's fifth floor, where they will become the core of a back-up power station”.


An array of fuels typically associated with offices was distributed throughout much of the building. In addition, WTC 7 contained 10 transformers at street level, 12 transformers on the 5th floor, and 2 dry transformers on the 7th floor. The Con Ed substation contained (outside the building footprint) eight 30-foot-wide transformers that supplied 13-kilovolt ampere (kVA) power to the 6th floor of the building. Fuel oil (ranging from diesel to #4) was provided for the generators serving OEM, SSB, Silverstein Properties, and the U.S. Secret Service. Table 5.2 shows where the generators, fuel tanks, pumps, and risers were located for the various occupants. There was also a Con Ed 4-inch-diameter gas line with 0.25 pounds per square inch (psi) (low) pressure going into WTC 7 for cooking purposes.

http://www.wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm

-------

NYC supplied steam for heat and hot water to the WTC. There was little need for fuel on the property. The Towers had relatively little fuel. Some for the Top of the World, which they carted up and a couple of generators. While WTC 7 was loaded with fuel, which FDNY would normally never have allowed, except they had no authority there. They did manage to get Hauer to give up his plans to run a natural gas line up the elevator shafts for some restaurant that was moving in on one of the top floors of the building.

There were also natural gas lines that ran all around the complex underground. So if you wanted to blow out the sublevels, which would require major explosives, then here's another fuel source.
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DoYouEverWonder
post Mar 2 2010, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (BADBURD @ Mar 2 2010, 01:01 PM) *
This is a interesting picture. Is that hallway about 12 foot deep?


dunno.gif

From where to where?
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BADBURD
post Mar 3 2010, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Mar 2 2010, 08:47 PM) *
dunno.gif

From where to where?


From the columns to the elevator doors. Hey I might not be seeing what I think I'm seeing. That's why I posted this picture. For everyone to disect.
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kawika
post Mar 3 2010, 10:40 AM
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QUOTE (BADBURD @ Mar 1 2010, 01:28 PM) *
From the columns to the elevator doors. Hey I might not be seeing what I think I'm seeing. That's why I posted this picture. For everyone to disect.


That cavern is way more than 12 feet deep. More like 30 or 40.

Cosmetics. This is esthetics, not evidence of a thick concrete core. Look above the cavern. Can you see lights inside the slats? The core disappears the more you scrutinize. The strength is in the columns and the beams buried in the cosmetics.
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DoYouEverWonder
post Mar 3 2010, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 3 2010, 09:40 AM) *
That cavern is way more than 12 feet deep. More like 30 or 40.

Cosmetics. This is esthetics, not evidence of a thick concrete core. Look above the cavern. Can you see lights inside the slats? The core disappears the more you scrutinize. The strength is in the columns and the beams buried in the cosmetics.

A couple of years ago, I did a major remodel job, which involved building a steel frame. Once everything was closed in, there's no way to know there's a steel frame underneath. Not until the next owner tries to hang up a picture and ends up banging into a steel beam. laugh.gif
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elreb
post Mar 5 2010, 10:38 PM
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Visit


Ref = KAWIKA: I must weigh in on the WTC6 crater, damaged before WTC2 collapse debate

Look carefully at this photo. It purports to show that WTC6 is on fire and that this is before WTC2 has gone down. I say it is after both towers are down.

WTC6 on FIRE

Look at the sun gleaming off the west face of the Verizon telephone building. This is after noon. Look at the south face of WTC7. It is on fire. This shot is after both towers are down.


Check out these videos to see evidence of WTC6 remaining intact at least until WTC1 is down.


See this @ 5:00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6qm7hMyoNo...feature=related

I have heard the WTC6 crater story over and over. I have yet to see any definitive proof of any WTC6 explosion before WTC2 went down. I haven't seen any proof of damage before WTC1 went down either. I believe WTC6 was "nuked" when the North Tower went down. And I think that WTC6's detonation/crater was one reason WTC7 had so many fires on the south face. How could the NT collapse initiate fires in WTC7? We know 7 was demolished. I am absolutely convinced WTC7 was supposed to be CD'd while WTC1 fell. Just as I am convinced that the DB (Deutsche Bank) was supposed to be CD'd when WTC2 went down. I think the fires in WTC7 were the result of WTC6's demo and/or the demo of WTC7 that went badly producing only partial collapse on the south face and a lot of fires.

In this clip, if WTC6 were ablaze you'd see evidence of it as WTC2 collapses. There's nothing, You can clealy see WTC7 and there is nothing going on behind it where WTC6 stood.


Here's a video taken from the east as WTC2 is struck. It shows WTC2 ablaze for at least two minutes and there is no indication of activity near WTC6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fta4cgmDPZw

FROM THE WEST and NORTH

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?d...52903&hl=en

See this video, taken from north and west of the site. It starts just after the first plane.

You see the aftermath of the second plane, about 11:50 in. You see various views of WTC6, still no fires there. Two minutes later @ 13:50 (tape counter) you see WTC6 again--- still fine. Just before WTC2 collapses you see WTC6 still intact. Firetrucks were parked right next to it. As WTC2 collapses you can see WTC6 and it appears the same and you can see the smoke rising near WTC7 that is the same as in White's analysis and the same as on the CNN view. These plumes come from WTC2 collapsing, not WTC6.

Look carefully at 14:05, you can see white smoke on the south side, ground level of WTC1 and 3. This is probably fires from burning cars, but why wouldn't the firefighters have put this out after so much time gone by?
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Paul
post Mar 6 2010, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Mar 6 2010, 01:08 PM) *
Visit


Ref = KAWIKA: I must weigh in on the WTC6 crater, damaged before WTC2 collapse debate

Look carefully at this photo. It purports to show that WTC6 is on fire and that this is before WTC2 has gone down. I say it is after both towers are down.

WTC6 on FIRE

Look at the sun gleaming off the west face of the Verizon telephone building. This is after noon. Look at the south face of WTC7. It is on fire. This shot is after both towers are down.


Check out these videos to see evidence of WTC6 remaining intact at least until WTC1 is down.


See this @ 5:00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6qm7hMyoNo...feature=related

I have heard the WTC6 crater story over and over. I have yet to see any definitive proof of any WTC6 explosion before WTC2 went down. I haven't seen any proof of damage before WTC1 went down either. I believe WTC6 was "nuked" when the North Tower went down. And I think that WTC6's detonation/crater was one reason WTC7 had so many fires on the south face. How could the NT collapse initiate fires in WTC7? We know 7 was demolished. I am absolutely convinced WTC7 was supposed to be CD'd while WTC1 fell. Just as I am convinced that the DB (Deutsche Bank) was supposed to be CD'd when WTC2 went down. I think the fires in WTC7 were the result of WTC6's demo and/or the demo of WTC7 that went badly producing only partial collapse on the south face and a lot of fires.

In this clip, if WTC6 were ablaze you'd see evidence of it as WTC2 collapses. There's nothing, You can clealy see WTC7 and there is nothing going on behind it where WTC6 stood.


Here's a video taken from the east as WTC2 is struck. It shows WTC2 ablaze for at least two minutes and there is no indication of activity near WTC6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fta4cgmDPZw

FROM THE WEST and NORTH

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?d...52903&hl=en

See this video, taken from north and west of the site. It starts just after the first plane.

You see the aftermath of the second plane, about 11:50 in. You see various views of WTC6, still no fires there. Two minutes later @ 13:50 (tape counter) you see WTC6 again--- still fine. Just before WTC2 collapses you see WTC6 still intact. Firetrucks were parked right next to it. As WTC2 collapses you can see WTC6 and it appears the same and you can see the smoke rising near WTC7 that is the same as in White's analysis and the same as on the CNN view. These plumes come from WTC2 collapsing, not WTC6.

Look carefully at 14:05, you can see white smoke on the south side, ground level of WTC1 and 3. This is probably fires from burning cars, but why wouldn't the firefighters have put this out after so much time gone by?


Yeah thanks mate cheers just ignore everything the Randi's and other skeptics
say about you i think you are great bloke, lets stand together and let the truth
set us free and all shall see through their lie's for thee all seeing eye knows
the truth, and is watching the watchers, and god shall cast his wrath upon
them when the time is right, and for forty days and for forty night they shall
suffer, and in the end thy shall be damned and condemned to an eternal death
for all of eternity for their time of reckoning has come. and all their heathen lies
shall be know to all for when the time is right, for the day of reckoning is near.

I made that up pretty good huh?

I think we should give them a fair trial when the time has come
and then, send them to the gallows to hang from their lying necks.

Time to prepare the lynch mob i reckon don't you?

Now for our favorite song and time to crank up the volume

Linkin Park - "New Divide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysSxxIqKNN0

pilotfly.gif pilotfly.gif salute.gif salute.gif thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif
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elreb
post Mar 7 2010, 10:45 PM
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Paul or is it Mate?

I take it that you are responding to Kawika and not to Elreb.

Bring me up to speed as to Randi…is he the “Amazing Randi” the Canadian American stage magician and scientific skeptic?

We…I thought were talking about WTC core design and what force could bring it down. The “Randi’s” do not know who I am.

STOP…ranting and raving about religious history…I re-wrote the book.

Google = Elreb or suneagle1…

Get back on subject…Mate
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Paul
post Mar 9 2010, 03:49 AM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Mar 8 2010, 12:15 PM) *
Paul or is it Mate?

I take it that you are responding to Kawika and not to Elreb.

Bring me up to speed as to Randi…is he the “Amazing Randi” the Canadian American stage magician and scientific skeptic?

We…I thought were talking about WTC core design and what force could bring it down. The “Randi’s” do not know who I am.

STOP…ranting and raving about religious history…I re-wrote the book.

Google = Elreb or suneagle1…

Get back on subject…Mate


What the hell this must be some mistake or something, this was meant to be a private
message reply to rob balsamo telling him ignore everything the JREFS say about him
etc, after he sent me this message after i requested he move a topic that i accidentally
double posted

here is the message he sent me:

your post moved
rob balsamo
View Member Profile Add as Friend Send Message Add to PM block list Forward PM Find Member's Topics Find Member's Posts your post moved, Mar 6 2010, 04:59 AM





Group: Admin
Posts: 7,728
Member No.: 1
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http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19704

And here is the topic i accidentally double posted and one has been removed

Entitled:

David Chandler Vs the govt loyalist site, Showdown at the govt loyalist site they are at it again

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19704

I dont really know whats going on here and would like to know, maybe i was too tired and accidentally
posted it here instead i am sorry if this is the case.

Also i would like to ask rob balsamo to check his messages and see if i actually did send a copy of the
message to him and if so post it here for all too see because if thats the case then something really fishy is going on here.

rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
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elreb
post Mar 9 2010, 10:57 PM
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Ok…I feel better now.

Be it WTC-1 or WTC-2 the core recovery documentation has been removed from public view. As far as I can tell…when an aircraft crashes into a large building…most if not all the information and the remains of that craft are easy to come by.

Proof is not opinion. The hijackers must have had bodies like king Tut? Skulls and titanium do not vaporize into thin air.

There is no reason for WTC-7 to have collapsed according to every law of physics. Most likely the Shanksville Pennsylvania hole in the ground was the cover story for the WTC-7 event that never occurred.

WTC-6 has an unusual hole in its center…hum…I wonder why? Reality check!

Persistence is a key to discovery.

Keep up the good work ladies and gentlemen.
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