Famous "diagonal Cut Column", Metalsmith analysis Options

[astronut]

Hi,
first, I'd like to suggest the Pilots Forum to combine WTC 1 and 2 Forums. Many of the posted topics in each room pertain to both buildings. More than the pertain to a single building. It would be easier to know where to post if even all WTC posts were in just one room. So, not knowing which room to post this to, I chose WTC 1.

With 5 years aviation and 25 years metal fabrication under my belt, I have written a paper that analyzes this famous photo. It also scrutinizes a photo used recently by "debunkers" when in fact, when looked at correctly, it supports the case for thermate at WTC.

This paper leads to another regarding the USGS thermal images from Sept 16th and 23rd, 2001. I'm looking for as much feedback as possible on this before submitting to the various research sites for inclusion.

http://www.centralmass911truth.org/diagonalcolumncut.html

Thanks, Larry

[waterdancer]

Hi Larry,
I just took a quick look. If I were you, I would put in there somewhere that the pics appear in sequence on the hereisnewyork.org site ( 5100, 5101, 5102, 5103, 5104 ). Also, you can see the larger context of the diagonal cut on their site ( pic 5100 large )http://hereisnewyork.org/gallery/thumb.asp?CategoryID=-1&picnum=2677

http://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/5100.jpg archive
http://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/5101.jpg archive
http://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/5102.jpg archive
http://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/5103.jpg archive
http://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/5104.jpg archive

Bottom line for me is this: as far as I know the here is new york gallery is the primary source for those images. They appear to have been added at a similar point in time. That makes it less likely to me that the first picture is evidence for anything other than metal cutting activity. If you can't convince someone who is willing to admit to the possibility (even the likelihood) of CD as an explanation for the WTC collapses with those pics, I doubt you'll change many minds of those who aren't willing to look at CD as a potential option yet.

This post has been edited by waterdancer: Jan 15 2007, 12:23 PM

[astronut]

Hi,
The paper's intent was not designed to be another "smoking gun". The point of the paper is to be supportive evidence. It addresses a single question, was this cut created by controlled demolition, or by iron workers during clean up? To look at it without "iron worker" experience or scrutiny, the Diagonal Cut Column photo can be looked at 2 ways, either it was cut possibly by charges or thermate which is what we would imply, or possibly by iron workers as the skeptics would suggest.

The 2nd photo when analysed from an iron workers point of view, can logically determined that it was not done during cleanup, which allows the first photo to be admissable as evidence of controlled demolition.

Thanks, Larry

[FM258]

Hi,
The paper's intent was not designed to be another "smoking gun". The point of the paper is to be supportive evidence. It addresses a single question, was this cut created by controlled demolition, or by iron workers during clean up? To look at it without "iron worker" experience or scrutiny, the Diagonal Cut Column photo can be looked at 2 ways, either it was cut possibly by charges or thermate which is what we would imply, or possibly by iron workers as the skeptics would suggest.

The 2nd photo when analysed from an iron workers point of view, can logically determined that it was not done during cleanup, which allows the first photo to be admissable as evidence of controlled demolition.

Thanks, Larry

Ahhhh I remember this one well....being that I am in the precision metal trade and know quite a bit about steel columns and how they are cut, and the characteristics that go with that...I will say that with 100% assurance, that was not cut with a torch, in fact, it is impossible to make a cut like that with a torch, or any other hand held instrument.

That I am sure of.

[StevenDC]

That I am sure of.

Can you go into great detail on why you think that? Experience, etc.? I ask because that pic is, to me, solid proof.

How frequently does anyone come across the need to cut 4 inch box beams so as to offer an expert opinion?

[FM258]

That I am sure of.

Can you go into great detail on why you think that? Experience, etc.? I ask because that pic is, to me, solid proof.

How frequently does anyone come across the need to cut 4 inch box beams so as to offer an expert opinion?

I have already been through this in an old thread at LC.


I am not here to convince anyone of anything. I am in the metal trade and know of what I speak, have been in this line for 24 years now. And while its true I havent cut any 4 inch thick beams before, I havent fu*ked a gorilla either, but I just know I wouldnt like it.

[StevenDC]

I can respect that.

That pic is one of my first presentations to people that have never been exposed to any evidence or don't even know there is a "conspiracy" theory out there to be listened to.. like me, only 6 months ago.

I would only like to have it considered that there must be a way that they can be cut by hand, simply because they are no longer there. They had to have been cut up to be removed unless they were already at a length to haul...

[FM258]

I can respect that.

That pic is one of my first presentations to people that have never been exposed to any evidence or don't even know there is a "conspiracy" theory out there to be listened to.. like me, only 6 months ago.

I would only like to have it considered that there must be a way that they can be cut by hand, simply because they are no longer there. They had to have been cut up to be removed unless they were already at a length to haul...

This is what a torch cut looks like.

(IMG:http://moonlightlounge.net/forums/html/emoticons/torchcutting.jpg)

Its absolutely retarded (to me anyway) that anyone would even consider this column was cut during the clean up....and criminal.

(IMG:http://www.centralmass911truth.org/pic87970.jpg)

This post has been edited by FM258: Jan 17 2007, 07:04 PM

[StevenDC]

This is what a torch cut looks like.

Thank you !!!

That's the pic I don't have. That's the pic that I can present to people and ask them to apply one iota of common sense to both pics and ask which story violates even the vaguest thread of common sense.

That is the pic I can present to Congress in our mailings on Feb 15th and ask Congress to answer the questions that it raises.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[paranoia]

in case you're curious, there is alot of pics of torch-cut metal at this site:
http://www.apexvfd.org/photos/usar_apex_2004/torches.html

and some good pics (at bottom) with info on the various metal cutting (non-demolition) techniques:
http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/protected/band_3/jk50.html


and some videos:

video - "cuts like knife thru butter" superquickness:
http://www.oxyfuel.com/video/highspeedcutweb1.mpg

more videos: http://www.oxyfuel.com/video/video.html

more videos:
http://www.oxyfuel.com/video/gougeweb3.m1v
http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/info_cutting_sheet_metal.htm
http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/info_cutting_thick_steel.htm


(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

This post has been edited by paranoia: Jan 26 2007, 01:01 AM

[waterdancer]

Not being a metal worker, I offer no opinions on what may have cut beams in any of the following pics, just adding them in as pics showing GZ columns...
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/0102015410600.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/gzexcavate3.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/gzexcavate6.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/gzexcavate5.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/gzexcavate2.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/image5.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/CoreBoxColumn02.JPG)
(IMG:http://www.studyof911.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10003/CoreBoxColumn03.JPG)

This post has been edited by waterdancer: Jan 26 2007, 02:16 AM

[dMz]

Many of the original FEMA high-res images can be found in this directory (I couldn't find a thumbnailed version though):

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/

This suggests as much:

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/thumbnail/

Here is the FEMA search page:
http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/index.jsp

[FM258]

This is what a torch cut looks like.

(IMG:http://moonlightlounge.net/forums/html/emoticons/torchcutting.jpg)

Its absolutely retarded (to me anyway) that anyone would even consider this column was cut during the clean up....and criminal.

(IMG:http://www.centralmass911truth.org/pic87970.jpg)

I am looking for these lost pics of wtc beams cut with a torch....please post if you have them!

[hadmatter]

I am looking for these lost pics of wtc beams cut with a torch....please post if you have them!

I think I remember the pics you're talking about. I've got one of them at least saved on my hard drive as a jpeg. I don't have a web hosting account anywhere, but I can post the pic on an obscure CL board and you can pick it up there.

Try this: http://colombia.en.craigslist.org/pol/1372260395.html

The link to the OP Astronut's (aka Larry the Metalsmith) paper on the angle cut column has been broken for a while. Although not the complete paper, he posted part of it on 911Blogger about the same time he came here looking for feedback. If anyone's interested in what started this thread, here's a link to part of it: http://www.911blogger.com/node/5149

Hope that helps.

[JFK]

I am looking for these lost pics of wtc beams cut with a torch....please post if you have them!

The internet archive saved the second one in your reply to StephenDC above...

(IMG:http://web.archive.org/web/20070622052824/http://www.centralmass911truth.org/pic87970.jpg)

http://web.archive.org/web/20070622052824/...rg/pic87970.jpg

I may have the wide angle shot of that scene somewhere, but I will have to look for it.

[FM258]

I think I remember the pics you're talking about. I've got one of them at least saved on my hard drive as a jpeg. I don't have a web hosting account anywhere, but I can post the pic on an obscure CL board and you can pick it up there.

Try this: http://colombia.en.craigslist.org/pol/1372260395.html

The link to the OP Astronut's (aka Larry the Metalsmith) paper on the angle cut column has been broken for a while. Although not the complete paper, he posted part of it on 911Blogger about the same time he came here looking for feedback. If anyone's interested in what started this thread, here's a link to part of it: http://www.911blogger.com/node/5149

Hope that helps.

YES!! That is one of them!!! TY!!!! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)

[FM258]

The internet archive saved the second one in your reply to StephenDC above...

(IMG:http://web.archive.org/web/20070622052824/http://www.centralmass911truth.org/pic87970.jpg)

http://web.archive.org/web/20070622052824/...rg/pic87970.jpg

I may have the wide angle shot of that scene somewhere, but I will have to look for it.

Thats the melted column...was looking for the contrast between the torch cut and the molten steel flow of this one.

[paranoia]

(IMG:http://i25.tinypic.com/mk7p0w.jpg)

[FM258]

(IMG:http://i25.tinypic.com/mk7p0w.jpg)

Another good one!! Thank you!! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

[paranoia]

anytime mate, you're welcome!
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)


ps - the one i posted is slightly cropped and its size reduced to allow it to better fit in/on the forum.
the full sized one here: http://i26.tinypic.com/kcyqdt.jpg

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)