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On Zionism

Sanders
post Jan 9 2009, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 13 2009, 01:47 AM) *
My sources have the very early portion of that slightly differently with your pagan "seafarers" splitting off pre-Babylon (and subsequently Egypt) when the Phoenicians left Sumeria. Sources that far back into "history" tend to be legends, Zecharia Stichin (and a couple of other controversial authors), and occultism, though.

Of course the same "grain of salt" applies, but it might be "sea salt" in this case. wink.gif



Very good pun laugh.gif . I don't often giggle and smile just over a pun like that.

In describing generally the two main branches, I didn't really address Phoenicia - you're right to catch that, Phoenicia is sort of a special case. It's pretty obvious when one looks at a map - if you travel upward from Sumer toward the Caucasus and hang a left, you are in Phoenicia - it would have been logical that culture spread from Sumer to there directly, and also there are some similarities between the deities the Phoenicians and the Sumerians worshipped, particularly if you also compare that of the Akkadians - Akkad lie in between. I think I'm right in noting that the Akkadians worshipped Bel, which was Baal in Phoenicia. Very very interesting by the way, (I mention this in my Dragon thread), I stumbled on to a Sumerian language web-site, and the guy who runs it posted in a FAQ that "Bel" in Akkadian is synonymous with "Dan" in Sumerian. He noted that "Dan" meant a unit of measure, however "Bel" (or Baal in Phoenician) meant "Lord" - quite interesting when thought of in light of the Tribe of Dan and the Tuatha de Danaan.

Then there is Mt. Hermon (from where Hermes allegedly derives) which was described as the gate through which angels fell (and mated with the daughters of men), the place is in Phoenicia, while the myth is originally Sumerian I believe (this is all from memory, someone correct me if I'm off a bit). However, Greek myth describes Cadmus and Phoenix migrating to Phoenicia from Egypt. I think both interpretations are probably true, it seems clear to me that Phoenicia gained its status from being a trading partner between Sumer and Egypt, and was influenced by both (to the extent that the three didn't simply evolve together?).

tumetuestumefaisdubien, great post IMO. Deep stuff. I'll only add that the infiltration of the Catholic Church likely began at the time of the Templars - with Innocent II, who was promoted to the position of Pope by a big supporter of the Templar order, Bernard Clairvaux. For a long time I envisioned the Templar knights and the Church as being ideologically at odds and couldn't understand how they came to be the pope's militia - then I discovered that Pope Innocent II was the Templar knights' own man on the inside.
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Timothy Osman
post Jan 10 2009, 08:05 AM
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IMO Zionism had nothing to do with religion apart from the fact that Judaism has been has been used as the basis and foundation of a nation by a movement/cult of Europeans. The corruption of the faith followed with its glazed eyed zealots ready willing and believing any BS they were fed, just like any other religiously manipulated people.
The fact is that the British made a total cluster f*ck of the middle East in every single line they drew on a map, their Empire's end has given the world some great hangovers precisely because they never let go, because they couldn't they knew as the US did that the whole region would have gone over to the Russian pole in a flash after Centuries of British manipulation and deceit.
Therefore I reckon the Zionists were originally used by the Western powers as a foil against a united anti western region similarly to the way the Apartheid policy's of South Africa were used by the West to cling on to the cape of good hope. Unlike South Africa where only a bastardized version of a minority religion was used the Zionist cult has sprouted wings and I believe that it has become so powerful and so important that Zionism belief is mandatory for any Western leader to be elected.
It could be that this cult has become the religion of the Elite and that they now really do believe the bullshit they started.
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Quest
post Jan 10 2009, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (Timothy Osman @ Jan 10 2009, 01:05 PM) *
IMO Zionism had nothing to do with religion apart from the fact that Judaism has been has been used as the basis and foundation of a nation by a movement/cult of Europeans. The corruption of the faith followed with its glazed eyed zealots ready willing and believing any BS they were fed, just like any other religiously manipulated people.
The fact is that the British made a total cluster f*ck of the middle East in every single line they drew on a map, their Empire's end has given the world some great hangovers precisely because they never let go, because they couldn't they knew as the US did that the whole region would have gone over to the Russian pole in a flash after Centuries of British manipulation and deceit.
Therefore I reckon the Zionists were originally used by the Western powers as a foil against a united anti western region similarly to the way the Apartheid policy's of South Africa were used by the West to cling on to the cape of good hope. Unlike South Africa where only a bastardized version of a minority religion was used the Zionist cult has sprouted wings and I believe that it has become so powerful and so important that Zionism belief is mandatory for any Western leader to be elected.
It could be that this cult has become the religion of the Elite and that they now really do believe the bullshit they started.


A good take on it, T.O.

For those interested, the below site cotains a wealth of information on Freemasonry.

Freemason Watch
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/

This post has been edited by Quest: Jan 10 2009, 09:18 PM
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Quest
post Jan 10 2009, 09:33 PM
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One question that has not yet been raised is how exactly Freemasonry hurts the public and helps the NWO.

As I undestand it, Freemasons do "favors" for one another and award work, jobs and positions over non-Freemasons. This is especially bad when it comes to filling government positions where objectivity and honesty are requirements. Laws and bills furthering Masonic goals are thus made easier. Additionally, you know where your bread is buttered and are not as likely to step out of line. Further still, being surrounded by like minded people can foster an "us against them" attitude.

Any others?
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albertchampion
post Jan 10 2009, 11:23 PM
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i don't know as much about freemasonry as i would like to know.

i recognize that george washington was a freemason. as was benjamin franklin[i think].

and i have read arguments propounded that the failures of the imperial forces of george 3 to successfully prosecute the war against the colonial insurrection was the result of fellow freemasons in the general staffs of the imperial forces. often cited is the battle of saratoga, where burgoyne[not a freemason] was denied his victory over the colonials by general william howe[a freemason].

the implication is that the extrication of the colonies from the hanoverian monarchy was a freemasonic conspiracy.

in my experience, i have found that there is a freemason greasing of the rails to success. in the state of ohio, if you had political/legal ambitions, you were well-advised to become a freemason.

in my younger days, trying to sell in certain oilfield territories[west texas, oklahoma, northern louisiana, california] i encountered a lot of discouraging responses to my efforts. i couldn't figure it out. and then one afternoon, i was calling on a superintendent of a gas plant in crane, texas. who had taken a liking to me. he asked me how i was doing. not very well i replied. i told him that i seemed to be unable to convert the success of my products at his plant to other entities of his company. and this was his response....

you know, i am not a member of the lodge. but almost every other superintendent is. you would change your luck by becoming a mason.

this left me speechless. though i had belonged to exclusive clubs[a status i eventually repudiated], i had never been a member of a semi-secret society. and philosophically, i had no desire to do that to make a buck.

but, i recalled that my grandfather, very connected in ohio politics, had been a grand pajandrum in that lodge. and had bequeathed me his grand pajandrum ring.

so, i decided to see if that evidence of freemasonry made any difference in my selling capabilities. i took to wearing that ring. ka-ching. it was too crazy. it also was the worst thing that could have happened to me as it confirmed the everyday operation of conspiracies.

i eventually stopped wearing the ring. i had learned what i did not really want to learn.

but, my observations of secret societies was not suspended.

for the sake of brevity, i observed that 20th century freemasonry appeared to have adopted totalitarian/gangster objectives.

the most startling illustration of that was[is] the italian freemasonic lodge known as propaganda due[P2]. whose grandmaster was licio gelli.

this lodge was the tear in the fabric of operation gladio. the nato program of false flag ops throughout europe [perhaps elsewhere]. nato's creation/nurturing of "terrorists".

it was also the tear in the fabric of the vatican's investment in global narcotics trafficking/international gangsterism.

is that the NWO involvement you were interested in?

but, let's go deeper into freemasonry. i think that there are virtually undiscussed TEMPLAR lodges. and personally, i think that the skull & bones at yale is such a lodge.

this is a crusaders lodge. in an odd sense, its relationship to zionism revolves upon its creation of a central banking system. which was eventually adopted by the preeminent advocates of perpetual warfare, zionism, the rothschild family.

i think that the revealing portrait of the usg[congress and executive branch] is who are the jews. who are the freemasons.
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cheapchippy
post Jan 11 2009, 04:27 AM
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If Zionists have infiltrated the US Govt. then I suppose I cant expect Obama to denounce Israel.

But he had better!
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dMz
post Jan 11 2009, 05:12 AM
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2 words:

Rahm Emanuel.
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dMz
post Jan 11 2009, 05:15 AM
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2 more:

Gaza genocide.
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Skepticon
post Jan 11 2009, 09:57 AM
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Thanks for censoring me again.
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Quest
post Jan 11 2009, 12:52 PM
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Albert wrote...

QUOTE
for the sake of brevity, i observed that 20th century freemasonry appeared to have adopted totalitarian/gangster objectives.

the most startling illustration of that was[is] the italian freemasonic lodge known as propaganda due[P2]. whose grandmaster was licio gelli.

this lodge was the tear in the fabric of operation gladio. the nato program of false flag ops throughout europe [perhaps elsewhere]. nato's creation/nurturing of "terrorists".

it was also the tear in the fabric of the vatican's investment in global narcotics trafficking/international gangsterism.


Albert, have a look at 1:50 in the following video.
Sears Tower Terrorism Arrests Miami Freemason Temple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsljIska4K8
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Quest
post Jan 11 2009, 01:00 PM
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Now have a look at the following...

MTV Wishes You A Masonic Christmas
http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf=http%...;load_modules=1

Dan Dicks: PressForTruth.ca Explains MTV's Masonic Temple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K98KRpN0Ss...feature=related

Then there is this one I just came across. Watch the entire video. Incredible.

Freemasons promotes child murder in mtv commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxHiqx0vw8...feature=related

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tumetuestumefais...
post Jan 12 2009, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Jan 7 2009, 11:14 PM) *
tumetuestumefaisdubien, great post IMO. Deep stuff. I'll only add that the infiltration of the Catholic Church likely began at the time of the Templars - with Innocent II, who was promoted to the position of Pope by a big supporter of the Templar order, Bernard Clairvaux. For a long time I envisioned the Templar knights and the Church as being ideologically at odds and couldn't understand how they came to be the pope's militia - then I discovered that Pope Innocent II was the Templar knights' own man on the inside.

In fact the true christian zionism - like a biblical occultism of the 2nd comming and the Christ reign in Jerusalem - started even before the Templars were even found - and already the 1st crusade was ideologicaly based on such a stuff - and nobody can now surely tell if the ideology was just a justification or cover-up or simply a "fundraiser" idea for the funding of the 1st crusade (which I suspect had more secular, trade-military purposes - to get the control over the trade with middle and far east - against the raising islam - and the ideology was just something which was suitable to persuade the papacy to bless such a risky bussiness in a time of ultimate pover of the "too naive to face the threats" scholastic christianity - yes I'm a cynical sceptic rolleyes.gif ), but it seems to me be a logical conclusion. The Templars then in my opinion just became "guardians" of this way of paranoid thinking and encouraged by the tolerance of the blatant heresy of the original "theological" reasons of the 1st crusade they with the rising power and wealth were falling deeper and deeper into occultism and fanatism - which one would expect if they were allowed to look through the cabbala, talmud and all the other occult stuff (as also the islamic literature and islamic "mahdi occultism"), which usually were then considered "libri prohibiti", or simply largely unavailable at that time.

It's possible that the pope (except the Innocent II in the early years of Templars) wasn't directly a Templar's "insider" - but the faillure of the further crusades then showed how powerful the islam could be, so he always was just pragmaticaly protecting Templars to the very end - even they were apparent heretics - because they resp. the crusaders largely governed by them were then only real practically loyal power to face the threat of islam - which then led to the papacy schizm - whose main reason "in the behind the scenes" I suspect was actually that ambiquity of the attitudes towards this very issue.

The "end of the story" was then king Philip decision to destroy the Templars, because they were destroying the european finances with methods intimately reminding the much later "BankofEngland after 1712 banking" (at the time of medieval blatantly illegal - but serving good for the pragmatic purposes of the crusades - and of course also other stuff - financing). In fact there is even the possibility that even at that time (at the end of 13th and beginning of the 14th century) all already well knew how dangerous the islam is to their power or to the whole christian culture.

So I would not see Templars black'n'white. But the fact remains that it were them who elaborated the christian zionism ideology and I think there couldn't be much controversy about this simple fact even there are very few sources which would confirm this. I think their real "infiltration" of the catholic church could begin after their dispersion, before it was a heretic but largely tolerated entity.

I even think, to get back to our times, that the jews can in certain sense be considered a "hijacked nation", which just serves to continue this crazy ideology founded in connection with the 1st crusade, which is just justified by the say "exotic" interpretations of scriptures puting it to the religiuos scope - to sell it to the people, when in fact in the behinds there are purely political reasons - to wedge a base for the destabilization of islam - mainly then for economical reasons - to have (in this "crusades of modern age") open way to steal their natural resources (and possibly keep them from becoming a superpower which can challenge the moral base of the christianity as an "alternative new covenant" ) - which was going on whole the 2nd half of the 20th century. To say it in lapidary manner: the Israel is just a proxy war of the west against islam. (founded in times when Stalin was asking: "who is pope, how much of divisions he has?" - by British, then by Americans)

This is how it can be seen when we consciously avoid all leaning to some "conspiracy explanations". - it could be basiaclly just a pragmatic imperialism of the west, covered up or justified by a purported blatant fanatism - which becomes of course real in case of the "mid-pyramid" promoters of the almost the same politics towards islam as in the medieval - just updated for the present situation. Of course there are many interbreeded aristocrats serving this purposes of the west dominance, not knowing the whole masterplan - which just could be in foundations a simple proteus strategy how to preserve the western civilization, or more expresly "its unique social structure and way of life" (from the scope of the western elites read: parasitism carried on whole the world) - and the occult stuff can be just a way how to explain and at the same time time blurr the complexity of the "problem of the world" - which was always the immanent scope of the elites - which always wanted to have at least a fiction that they can fully find a sense of, steer it and solve the problem thereof - one would call it a "disease of power" - which would and is inherently leading to unintended ends - "side effects" of atrocities of unprecedented epic extensions.

I think the ideologies usually serve just as a justification of pragmatical goals - something which enwreathe it with an aura of the fatalism, creating an integrity of a common identity, when in fact the goals are just a sum of a compromise of many different goals or tendencies working in a commont paradigm of basic morals. Such a basic moral in case of the christian society is the moral of grace I mentioned above - that's the main centerpoint which makes the real difference between the christian and all other faiths - but this moral is actually just "reserved" for the western masses and, its elites in their deeply rooted hypocrisy and with at least subliminal paranoid tendencies have in fact the morals of the occultism to maintain the power hierarchy and any grace is just a pretended charity covering the greed of a predator.

I also think the power elites we needn't take black'n'white - as eg Alex Jones - calling their interbreeding - old as the humankind itself - "the eugenics". In fact if the society have to be a sane one eg being able to defend itself - then it needs a good and well established elites as well as a well informed and organized "plebs". In fact the roman model was so succesful in all its later forms (the democracy of the west is usually based on clasical roman institutions - during the republic as well as in the time of the empire) for ballancing this two sides. With all the honesty we must say, we never had anything better to maintain the social contract, and the excesses usually stem from the disturbances of this equilibrium - either as the corporativist fascism (later globalized) or the internationalist socialism (later globalized as paradoxicly the leading leftist ideology behind the neo-corporativism of NWO) - to name the commonly known extremes in the recent history. The interbreeding of the elites I would consider being a logical behaviour of elites and the bloodlines as a natural result of such an elitist strategy. I don't find anything "dark" in it itself. Everybody wants to have sustainable and influential offspring. This argument against elites is in my opinion entrenching.

What I find being dark are the occult ideologies used to maintain the cohesion of the elitist identity. One of the most dangerous of them in the present is for me the christian zionism - as the leading ideology behind the contemporary wars in the middle east, behind the false flag terrorism, behind the destabilization of the classical church influence as a guarantee of the morality and moral integrity in the western society (especially infiltrating the very cores of the majority of the protestant churches and attempting to marginalize the catholic and orthodox churches), behind the destruction of the western social contract (giving the elie a justification for not to be responsible to the masses for the "higher goals") and behind the depletion of the moral integrity of democratical institutions (one can see it quite well observing the absolute destruction of the US democracy moral integrity by the christian and jewish zionist lobbyist groups.)

This post has been edited by tumetuestumefaisdubien: Jan 12 2009, 04:05 PM
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dMz
post Jan 12 2009, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (Skepticon @ Jan 11 2009, 06:57 AM) *
Thanks for censoring me again.

Not sure if "Skepticon" was addressing me personally with this, but he's welcome and I didn't BTW.

Here's a little information on a rather secretive branch of IDF.

http://www.specwarnet.net/world/matkal.htm

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/516-173.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayeret_Matkal

"The 2003 dissidents

On December 21, 2003 thirteen Sayeret Matkal reservists葉he most senior being an officer at the rank of Rav Seren (Major)用resented to the Prime Minister's office in Jerusalem a letter declaring their refusal to perform military service in the Occupied Territories:[6]

"We have come to tell you, Mr. Prime Minister, that we will no longer be accomplices to the reign of oppression in the Territories and the denial of the most elementary human rights of millions of Palestinians, nor shall we be the shield of settlements erected on confiscated land".

The letter aroused a strong controversy, due to Sayeret Matkal having a high prestige in the Israeli society. It was especially strongly denounced by mainstream political figures who had their origin in the ranks of the unit, such as former Prime Ministers Ehud Barak and Binyamin Netanyahu."
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Sanders
post Jan 12 2009, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 16 2009, 05:50 PM) *
On December 21, 2003 thirteen Sayeret Matkal reservists葉he most senior being an officer at the rank of Rav Seren (Major)用resented to the Prime Minister's office in Jerusalem a letter declaring their refusal to perform military service in the Occupied Territories:[6]

"We have come to tell you, Mr. Prime Minister, that we will no longer be accomplices to the reign of oppression in the Territories and the denial of the most elementary human rights of millions of Palestinians, nor shall we be the shield of settlements erected on confiscated land".

The letter aroused a strong controversy, due to Sayeret Matkal having a high prestige in the Israeli society. It was especially strongly denounced by mainstream political figures who had their origin in the ranks of the unit, such as former Prime Ministers Ehud Barak and Binyamin Netanyahu."



Wow. Good for them.
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dMz
post Jan 12 2009, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Jan 12 2009, 04:59 PM) *
Wow. Good for them.

Yes unfortunately "ethics" is not rewarded and often is a "liability" for military officers in these PNACian, neocon times. What was that about falling on one's sword again?

Admiral Fallon steps down as CENTCOM commander

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section...p;article=53237
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dMz
post Jan 12 2009, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (albertchampion @ Jan 10 2009, 08:23 PM) *
in my experience, i have found that there is a freemason greasing of the rails to success. in the state of ohio, if you had political/legal ambitions, you were well-advised to become a freemason.
...
you know, i am not a member of the lodge. but almost every other superintendent is. you would change your luck by becoming a mason.

this left me speechless. though i had belonged to exclusive clubs[a status i eventually repudiated], i had never been a member of a semi-secret society. and philosophically, i had no desire to do that to make a buck.

but, i recalled that my grandfather, very connected in ohio politics, had been a grand pajandrum in that lodge. and had bequeathed me his grand pajandrum ring.

so, i decided to see if that evidence of freemasonry made any difference in my selling capabilities. i took to wearing that ring. ka-ching. it was too crazy. it also was the worst thing that could have happened to me as it confirmed the everyday operation of conspiracies.

i eventually stopped wearing the ring. i had learned what i did not really want to learn.

but, my observations of secret societies was not suspended.

I was to find out somewhat late in life that "brassy" military work is much the same way. There are several "military lodges" scattered about. NASA is much more so from what I've been able to determine...

EDIT:
http://www.mitre.org/

Is MITRE Corp. The Trojan Horse of 9/11?
http://911review.org/companies/MITRE/MITRE_Bollyn.html

Strangely I've had a "locked door" (nearly classified governmental) discussion follow me from Phoenix to Detroit and beyond. Even more strangely, this "curious" little elderly fellow wasn't even in the room or state of AZ for that "locked door" discussion.

Most curious of all, I never broke OPSEC either.

EDIT: Does anyone else find albert's tale somewhat gollumic and Tolkeinesque?
Reason for edit: Added link
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dMz
post Jan 12 2009, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 12 2009, 05:39 PM) *
NASA is much more so from what I've been able to determine...

Here is one of the more interesting books you are likely to ever find (in the NASA, JPL, or any other context you like- think Rocket Science meets "Rolling Stone"). John "Jack" Whiteside Parsons was self-educated IIRC.

http://feralhouse.com/titles/occult/sex_and_rockets.php

Scientology guru L. Ron Hubbard also had strong Navy Intelligence ties IIRC.

See also Dark Mission.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10740263
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Timothy Osman
post Jan 13 2009, 06:38 AM
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QUOTE
On December 21, 2003 thirteen Sayeret Matkal reservists葉he most senior being an officer at the rank of Rav Seren (Major)用resented to the Prime Minister's office in Jerusalem a letter declaring their refusal to perform military service in the Occupied Territories:[6]

"We have come to tell you, Mr. Prime Minister, that we will no longer be accomplices to the reign of oppression in the Territories and the denial of the most elementary human rights of millions of Palestinians, nor shall we be the shield of settlements erected on confiscated land".

The letter aroused a strong controversy, due to Sayeret Matkal having a high prestige in the Israeli society. It was especially strongly denounced by mainstream political figures who had their origin in the ranks of the unit, such as former Prime Ministers Ehud Barak and Binyamin Netanyahu."


This bugs me, probably because I'm an old conspiracy theorist but the Zionist plan, plan d was well established and had been running for years. The best piece of propaganda Israel could use against the existence of plan d would be military dissent. A theory could be that this particular unit was chosen for greater impact and the fact that the units true loyalty would be beyond question to anyone in the know.
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dMz
post Jan 13 2009, 11:26 AM
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Well it was the Wiki after all TO, although I have read a book written by a Sayeret Matkal commando.

Here are some more non-Wiki sources on this and releated events:

http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm

http://www.seruv.org.il/english/article.asp?msgid=211

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1230-06.htm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...ticle%2FPrinter
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Omega892R09
post Jan 13 2009, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Jan 7 2009, 02:42 AM) *
I absorbed a lot of info calls this the "Gogi" branch, "Gogi" derives from the word "Gog" as does the name of the Caucasus country of Georgia). The Gogi branch spread north from the Caucasus, Balkans and Scythia (Scythia would later become Khazaria) and gave rise to the barbarian tribes including the Franks who were very important of course, probably the Huns too, and, the Vikings.

I wonder how many British primary school children are made aware of these two as we were in my day. You may find this line of research interesting Sanders:

Gog and Magog

#2 attempt to post due to connection drop.

#3 attempt to post due to connection drop.

Looking bad again

#4 attempt to post due to connection drop.

Nope bombed again

#5

Nope bombed again

#6

Edit. Nearly lost it gain. Now it has dropped again.

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Jan 13 2009, 11:29 AM
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