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The Dragon Blood-line

Sanders
post Oct 8 2008, 09:50 AM
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Earlier in the thread I typed this:

QUOTE
Osiris ties to Orion, and also Dionysis. And Dionysis is also tied in with the Curetes and cult of Cybele - which makes sense because he is the "god of wine, the inspirer of ritual madness and ecstasy" (Wiki). Then you have the connection of "missing genitals" between the Galli priests (Cybele cult), Attis and Osiris. And sacrifices being made to an idol with the head of a bull - and Taurus being in Orion. And the pyramids at Giza modelled after the 3 stars in Orions belt. And we know Osiris is central to Freemasonry via the figure of Hiram Abiff. Have I left anything out? (I'm sure I have!)

I see the connections, but I'm at a loss as to what it all really means. If someone could really connect all those dots, that'd be something.


I'm not sure if I know what it all really means (if anyone does, feel free to pipe in!), but I think it just has to do with the moon, the female side of the dualistic pagan belief system ... I really think it may be no more complicated than that. yes1.gif

It hit me when I saw this - this is the Egyptian bull Apis, with the solar disc between it's horns.



I'm sort of a dummy, I had been seeing certain things all my life and didn't know what they were. I guess that's sort of par for the course as everything is flaunted in plain view, but I had never recognised the U-shaped thing on the head of Isis as the horns of a bull, but that's exactly what they are.



Isis is the moon, the female aspect, and on her head are the horns of Taurus. The "U" shape is the symbol of the vessel, or womb. The symbol for female is more often thought of as a "V" shape, but lo and behold the horns of the actual constellation Taurus create a V.



In terms of the "great year" we are now in the age of Pieces ... however during the time that civilization was blossoming in Egypt and Sumer we were in the age of Taurus, in other words when the sun’s plane crossed the equator on the first day of spring the sun rose in the house of the constellation Taurus ... and, Orion as well, if you want to think of it that way. The sun coming up at that time of year would have looked something like this ...



The symbol of an upturned moon/horns with a solar disc in the middle is not unique to Egypt though. The first two of these are Sumerian, at least 5000 years old. The third is Phoenician.



You can probably see where this is going. But it gets even better. Here are some Byzantine coins from around the 1st and 2nd centuries -



... And these are Roman, also circa 1st and 2nd centuries. You can clearly see the the sun (or stars) framed by the cresecent moon in all of these -



Now, we know that the Templars and Rosicrucians held, respectively, Mary Magdalene and the Virgin Mary in high regard ... look what symbol the church often chose to place at Mary's feet ...



The moon !!!

The symbol is ubiquitous, and turns up in some odd places. Clockwise from top left, Troia Cathedral, Italy; Arms of Komenos, Cyprus; Catholic monstrance; New Orleans Police Department; Persian moon goddess; Templar pendant circa year 1300; Portsmouth Football Club.



Don't ask me what the New Orleans Police Department or the Portsmouth Football Club are doing with this symbol, I haven't the slightest idea. At least the New Orleans police had the good sense to turn it upside down. tongue.gif

(continued... )
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Sanders
post Oct 8 2008, 07:53 PM
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I think I have mentioned in this thread that the Templars held John the Baptist, as they did Mary Magdalene, in high regard. I mentioned that John the Baptist was known among the Nazarenes as the "great Nazar", that the term Nazar is interestingly similar to words in other languages which meant dragon. I should note that John and Jesus are said to have been cousins (according to Luke), and that John was the son of a priest (Zechariah), making him a Davidic king I assume. I talked about St. Andrew, first a biblical disciple of John the Baptist. Andrew was crucified on a saltire cross from where the Scottish flag gets it's "X". I talked about the Hungarian king Andrew, about the skull and crossbones, about (one of the alleged) head(s) of John the Baptist being enshrined in the Templar church Notre-Dame d'Amiens in France. I have shown flags and coats of arms depicting a lamb (the symbol of John the Baptist) carrying a flag with the red Templar cross on white.

Some might consider some of this blasphemous, others might say figures like John the Baptist didn't even exist ... I'm really only interested however in how John the Baptist relates to the Templars and Freemasonry, and how he and the figure of Mary were ascribed to represent pagan concepts in the Christian world.

Zeitgeist may have had it right in proposing a correlation between Jesus (as exemplified by the Church), Horus, and the Sun. To take it a step further, if Mary (Virgin Mary or Mary Magdalene either one, take your pick) equates with Isis and the moon, then who is Osiris? Osiris is the father of Horus (the major sun deity) and the husband of Isis, and furthermore, it is widely accepted that Osiris pertains to Orion (Osiris resided in the constellation Orion). And, if the "On" part of the freemason "secret" word for god "Jabulon" is a reference to Osiris as has been suggested ... or, better yet, a reference to Orion, as the word bears an even closer resemblance to "On", then Osiris was to the Egyptians what the "Great Architect" is to the Masons. The "bul" part of "Je-Bul-On" by the way is claimed to be a reference to Baal or Bel, the "Ja" would of course be a reference to 'Jehovah' ... all names for god.

This is a refreshingly good article about Roslin Chapel which discusses the links between Freemasonry and Osiris. Worth a read ...
http://business.scotsman.com/rosslynchapel...tone.2822385.jp

Here is a link which explores the correlation between the pyramids of Giza and the 3 stars of Orion's belt (they line up pretty good):
http://egyptphoto.ncf.ca/osiris-orion_2.htm

Now look at the post above at the constellation Orion, you will notice something. He has NO HEAD.

I propose that this is partly why John the Baptist, beheaded by Herod, is associated with Orion and hence held in high regard by the Templars and other sects that stood in counterpoint to the Church of Rome which minimized aspects of ancient pagan worship apart from the "sun" (the role filled by the Christ figure), just as Akhenaton threw out all the other dieties except that of the Sun during his reign in Egypt. Not only is John headless as Orion is headless, he is the Baptizer of Jesus, his "father" in the sense of the priesthood just as Osiris is the father of Horus.

This is the ancient conflict, begun with Egyptian resistance to (and ultimate rejection of) Akhenaton's solar cult, which continued in a new form with the Templars, Freemasons and other Kabbalist-leaning sects attempting to preserve the aspects of Isis and Osiris in the figures of Mary and John the Baptist. That's my theory anyway.

There's something else interesting about the figure of John the Baptist ... his birthday immediately follows the summer solstice. I know these supposed dates are dubious, just as Jesus, if he was a real figure, wasn't really born on December 25th. But the fact remains that the two were given these dates ... June 24th for John the Baptist, 3 days after the summer solstice, and December 25th for Jesus, 3 days after the winter solstice, in each case just after the shortest and longest days of the year when the sun perceivably reverses direction.

This comes from Freemason Information of all places:

QUOTE
December 27th is Saint John the Evangelist day, which is the 2nd feast day in the year to celebrate the Holy Saints John. The placement of the holiday also marks the winter solstice, which is directly opposite Saint John the Baptist’s day at the summer solstice in June making a notable completion in the cycle of the solar year. The actual dates are slightly off, but you get the symbolism. But why John the Evangelist, and what about him represents the counter balance of John the Baptist, the opposite pillar of the point within the circle? For those who forget, the point within the circle is the Masonic symbol that all men are said to endeavor to emulate in their physical and spiritual being. It essentially is the balancing ones desires and passions in the pursuit
of knowledge...

...Saint John the Baptist, represented as the inverted pyramid, the Alchemical sign for water, representing the spiritual and emotional love. St. John the Evangelist, represented as the pyramid pointing up symbolizing fire that is the drive and will of action. When placed together, they symbolize the perfect balance of darkness and light, life and death, passion and constraint, will and emotion, winter and summer. Together both represent the interlocked star of Solomon, or the Square and Compass.


In the previous post above, talking about the moon and the horns of Taurus, I wanted to quote this from the Chronicle of Gervaise [18 June 1178 (Julian calendar)], but I waited until I had made my spiel about John the Baptist -

QUOTE
"In this year, on the Sunday before the feast of St. John the Baptist, after sunset when the moon has first become visible, a marvellous phenomenon was witnessed by some five or more men who were sitting there facing the moon. Now there was a bright new moon, and as usual in that phase, its horns were tilted towards the east and suddenly the upper horn split in two. From the midpoint of this division a flaming torch sprang up, spewing out, over a considerable distance, fire, hot coals and sparks. Meanwhile the body of the moon, which was below, writhed, as it were, in anxiety, and, to put it in the words of those who reported it to me and saw it with their own eyes, the moon throbbed like a wounded snake... Then after these transformations the moon from horn to horn, that is along its whole length, took on a blackish appearance."


It has been proposed that the event described above was actually an asteroid collision on the moon (re: Dr. Jack Hartung), but that's not why I offered the quote. I found it instructive that the tapering ends of the crescent moon are referred to as "horns". I've never heard the crescent moon referred to as a pair of horns but apparently a thousand years a go people did, further supporting the idea of association between the moon and the horns of Taurus.

John's birthday is significant for yet another reason. On the eve of the summer solstice/Feastday of St. John in parts of the world bonfires are lit. The festival is still observed in parts of Europe, Canada and Britain, apparently being particularly popular in Scandinavia and Ireland (we didn't do this back in Ohio, so forgive my ignorance). Puerto Rico and Brazil also are known for their Feastday celebrations. Traditionally ashes are spread over crops, people leap over the flames, all accompanied by lots of dancing and partying - essentially, it's an ancient pagan fertility celebration. In parts of Scandinavia effigies are even burned. (I can't help but be reminded of the noisy sacrificial rites of the Curetes/Kabieri.)

Presently the summer solstice falls on the cusp between Gemini and Cancer, but thousands of years ago it would have been in a different house of the zodiac, the change being due to the slow wobble of the earth and the precession of the ages. I looked around on the net but couldn't find any good indication of in which zodiac sign the summer solstice would have fallen on in dynastic Egypt, and I'm no mathematician ... but I can guess. It would have fallen in Taurus. (I'm not talking about the "age" of Taurus related to the wobble of the earth and which correlates with the time before Moses when these myths were being worked out in Egypt, I'm talking about the yearly 12-house Zodiacal cycle, related to the earth's travel around the sun.)

Did Herod really have John the Baptist beheaded? If true, was it by pure providence that the Baptizer of Jesus (solar-cult embodiment the sun) became headless as was Orion? Or was the legend made up to further secure the figure of John the Baptist in his place as the embodiment of Orion, and by extension Osiris, the father of the Egyptian sun-deity Horus? Who knows. But we know that the Templars, Rosicrucians and Freemasons latched on to the Christian figure of John the Baptist and to the moon-goddess (alternately Mary Magdalene or the Virgin Mary) as well to complete what could be thought of as a sort of "pagan trinity" - represented in Egypt by Osiris, Isis and Horus.

Now, one last eye-opener. In case you hadn't noticed, the symbol of the sun or star enclosed by a crescent moon (many examples shown in the post above) is most ubiquitous in ... Islam. Just turn the symbol a bit -



What the $@%^ is going on!???

This guy has a theory - I have watched this once, it is very long. I won't comment other than to note that the title of the lecture is 'The Catholic-Islam Connection'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNWt2aJxaQ...feature=related
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Sanders
post Feb 7 2009, 03:28 PM
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I haven't added to this in a while, but some things were posted in another thread in the Religion forum which relate directly to this topic.

First, a great article on the Skull and Bones symbol

The Skull and Crossbones: The Untold Tale of the Templar Shining Ones
Philip Gardiner
http://www.esolibris.com/articles/alternat..._crossbones.php

Many things in that article I have touched on in this thread. I WAS NOT aware however of the "Chi-Rho", a P and X letter combination found in texts thousands of years old, which may well be the original precursor of the skull and bones symbol.

Something else I was not aware of until recently with regards to the skull and crossbones, is that Baldwin I, central to the original "Jolly Roger" myth where he copulates with the corpse of his dead Armenian wife and returns to her grave 9 months later to find the skull and bones of legend, was regarded in the myth as the "Lord of Sidon". Sidon of course was a pirate nest on the coast of modern Lebanon, near the city of Dan and Mt. Hermon! ... Chalk up one more (intriquing) connection between the modern money-trust (skull and bones, Freemasonry) and the dragon (Phoenicia, Ba'al).

I recently posted about this Baldwin and his Armenian wife and the skull and bones in a different thread, and made a mistake, I got Baldwin I and Balwin II mixed up (they weren't father and son, lived about the same time, and both married Armenian women - and I easily get confused!!!). And when I suspected my mistake I did some checking, and noticed that ARDA (Baldwin I's first wife) was descended from Khazar royalty, at least according to this:
http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/book/wars_of_roses.html
QUOTE
...Arda of Armenia, from the Rubinian Royal House of Armenia, founded by her grandfather, Ruben of Cilicia. Ruben was descended from a daughter of I-Buzir Khagan of the Khazars and Priset, who married Constantin II of Abkhazia.[2]


Anyone who has read my posts of late regarding this general topic may have noticed I have become quite interested in the ancient kingdom of Armenia - many roads seem to lead there, and here we have both of these Baldwins (I and II) married into Armenian royalty. I have posted elsewhere that the root of the words Armenia, Hermes, Hermon (as in Mt. Hermon/Mt. Sion), and Harmonia (wife of Cadmus) are very likely all the same, and provide the base of our word 'harmony'. Most of the above relate to, in John of 'Ladon-Gog's words, a mixing of Aryan and Hebrew, in my terminology a mixing of Egyptian and Gogi branches, Armenia being the melting pot or buffer zone during the Greek era. What's REALLY got my brain spinning, is why this apparently very historically significant kingdom and its inhabitants were wittled down to almost nothing (I'm speaking of course of the genocide of the Armenian people). Sorry, I have a suspicious mind - anyone out there who can enlighten us on a possible connection???

There are a few other things that I posted elsewhere that should get added here -

I posted a collection of blue and white themed family crests that connect back to Michael Rangabe through Melissena, but was unaware that the Bayer family was among these. This is seriously significant, because both Bayer and Bauer (the original name of the Rothschild family) stem from the derivative of our word for "bower", as in bow and arrow, a big theme in Hun mythology and in Greek mythology with regard to the Black Sea (Apollo and Artemis related) tribes, evident in the legend of the Calydonian Boar Hunt (the Romans called Scotland Calydonia btw!). So add Bayer and Bauer (Rothschild) to that list of - what should we call it .... ??? Blue-Dragon families???



I noticed that my link to the Madonna video (Cherish) went bad ... too bad. Knowing that Madonna is into Kabbalah and remembering her vid with all the mermaids, remember, all of these blue and white crests flow back to Melissena who is represented in legend as a sort of mermaid, the parallel struck me like a ton of bricks.

Also, I made up a genealogy tree (not comprehensive of course, there are many more children and maybe connections - I just included the ones I was interestd in... ) which further illuminates the east-west connection I have been harping about. Pretty amazing IMO, if you study it.


Red denotes Eastern blood, blue represents Viking/Goth blood, purple - a mix. (Roughly speaking.)

So, moving on, I have been digging a little bit into the Roosevelt family, and have uncovered a few things to add regarding that family as well. Many already know that we have had 3 very influential Roosevelts in US history - Teddy Roosevelt, who was probably the most responsible for getting the US into war with Spain at the turn of the 20th century, and as president embarked on an imperialist policy and also used "trust-busting" as an excuse to strengthen the federal government and enact regulatory legislation, with the help of his friend and Secretary of War and then State, Elihu Root, who went on by the way to serve as president of the Carnegie Endowment and also the first chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations. Then there is FDR, architect of the New Deal and the guy who stole the gold from America's citizenry, and lastly Kermit (Roosevelt ... Teddy's grandson), who led the coup in Iran in 1953 which installed the Shah.

If you go back in this thread you'll see that I spotted that the Root family was awarded lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings in 1066. Elihu Root, in addition to what I just mentioned, handled the legal affairs of E.H.Harriman (preeminent US railroad baron backed by Jacob Schiff who's son went into business with GW Bush's grandfather) and J.P. Morgan. Root was (Teddy) Roosevelt's right-hand man and legal mind. Would it blow your mind to know that the Roosevelt family ALSO received lands and title from William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings? It BLEW MINE!!!t

Teddy, Franklin and Kermit Roosevelt's ancestors are Dutch, but the family crest information places their roots in Normandy (!). Furthermore, "Rous" apparently meant "red-haired". How many times have I read descriptions of ancient texts regarding "red-haired giants", or red-haired Hyksos kings of Egypt, or red haired royal Scythians ... in chasing down this dragon? Circumstantial and maybe meaningless, I will admit, but it grabs my attention.

Next, I find that the Roosevelts, like the "dry-goods" houses that formed the Rothschild circle of influence in America (Peabody-Morgan, Brown), were involved in the West-Indies slave trade, centered in Baltimore and Rhode Island.

The Delanos and Astors, who were related by marriage to the Roosevelts, were heavily involved in the Opium trade in China (as was the Dutch East India Trading Company) . The (Dutch) Roosevelts shared Manhattan with the Astors, but were not involved in the Chinese opium trade it seems. But, like the West Dutch East Trading Company, the Roosevelts were involved in the West-Indies slave trade. At the bottom of this page you see that Roosevelts owned the slave-ship 'Expedition'.

http://www.geocities.com/earlofdonegal/HEBREWS.htm

To make my point clear, Teddy Roosevelt came from a Dutch family (originally from Normandy) who got the US into its first aggressive war (excluding the early wars with Britain), set the country on an imperialist footing, took the spotlight off of the bankers with his "trust-busting" while they were formulating the Federal Reserve, created (with congress) the National Monetary Commission which recommended a central bank, confiscated private lands for use as national parkland (that might seem noble, but remember these properties wound up on the balance sheets of the Federal Reserve as collateral - which is why you see UN signs dotting our national parks) and entered the 1912 race as an independent which ensured Wilson's (who signed the Federal Reserve act) win.

I have imagined the founders rolling in their graves for some time, for obvious reasons - but I didn't realize how pissed off three of them must be to share Mt. Rushmore with the image of Teddy Roosevelt.

Oh, I forgot to mention... Teddy Roosevelt, who, propelled by his popularity after the victory over the Spanish, rose to become vice president under McKinley for his second term, assumed the presidency not 6 months after McKinley was re-elected when the president was assassinated by a lone "anarchist" nut.

http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=roosevelt

QUOTE
The family name Roosevelt dates back to the beginnings of the Norman culture in Britain - the Norman Conquest of 1066 ... First found in Devonshire, where they were seated from very early times and were granted lands by Duke William of Normandy, liege Lord, for their distinguished assistance at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 A.D.
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2009, 04:02 AM
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Echidna

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna_(mythology)

QUOTE
In the most ancient layers of Greek mythology Echidna (Greek: Ἔχιδνα) (ekhis (ἔχις), meaning "she viper") was called the "Mother of All Monsters". Echidna was described by Hesiod as a female monster spawned in a cave, who mothered with her mate Typhoeus (or Typhon) every major horrible monster in the Greek myths, the goddess fierce Echidna who is half a nymph with glancing eyes and fair cheeks, and half again a huge snake,[1] great and awful, with speckled skin, eating raw flesh beneath the secret parts of the holy earth. And there she has a cave deep down under a hollow rock far from the deathless gods and mortal men. There, then, did the gods appoint her a glorious house to dwell in: and she keeps guard in Arima beneath the earth, grim Echidna, a nymph who dies not nor grows old all her days. (Theogony, 295-305)
Usually considered offspring of Tartarus and Gaia, or of Ceto and Phorcys (according to Hesiod) or of Chrysaor and the naiad Callirhoe, or Peiras and Styx (according to Pausanias, who did not know who Peiras was aside from her father), her face and torso of a beautiful woman was depicted as winged in archaic vase-paintings, but always with the body of a serpent (see also Lamia). She is also sometimes described as having two serpent's tails.


She had several offspring, one of which was Ladon (the dragon that guarded the golden apples), another was Cerberus, with three dog/wolf heads.



Thanks go out to paranoia for bringing this to my attention. Note that Echidna, with TWO serpent tails like Melusine, is the mother - the two tails represent the Egytian and Gogi branches of the dragon IMO ... one of her offspring is the Black Sea (Gogi) branch represented, as always, by the wolf. I don't know exactly what tribes the three heads represent, but it's noteworthy that the Vikings are said to descend from three Black Sea tribes - Aesar, Vanir and Erul.

And it turns out that a company involved with running security at the WTC was called 'Cerberus'. doh1.gif

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....c=16349&hl=
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DoYouEverWonder
post Feb 17 2009, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE
Don't ask me what the New Orleans Police Department or the Portsmouth Football Club are doing with this symbol, I haven't the slightest idea. At least the New Orleans police had the good sense to turn it upside down. tongue.gif


New Orleans is called the 'Crescent City' because it was built on a big bend in the Mississippi, that's why they use the crescent moon.
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2009, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Feb 21 2009, 07:21 AM) *
New Orleans is called the 'Crescent City' because it was built on a big bend in the Mississippi, that's why they use the crescent moon.


Thanks, I hadn't heard the connection to the bend in the river.
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Sanders
post Feb 22 2009, 09:13 AM
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Earlier I remarked, having simply read it at houseofnames (a site that archives family crests), that Rous, the derivative of the Roosevelt name, meant "red-haired". That may well be true, but I let the obvious escape me. Rous is from ROSE!!!

I was working on a little video recently about the history of the Federal Reserve, and I found myself spending quite a bit of time on Teddy Roosevelt, his role in setting the stage for the confiscation of control of America's currency by the FED, his close association with Elihu Root, the Roosevelt ties to the Astor and Delano families, and by extension the Russell family ... Warren Delano (FDR's grandfather on his mother's side) worked for the Russells and ran their Opium trade in China.

Parts III and IV (this isn't done yet, so I'm just posting these two parts which have merely been roughed out) deal with Roosevelt.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5734904060778068680
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=121299989598204181

Many in the Russell family seem to have been obsessed with the occult, William H. Russell was of course the co-founder of Skull and Bones, and Charles Russell was heavily involved in 19th century pre-tribulation doctrine, the Christian Zionist movement, and the roots of Jehovah's Witnesses. Then I learned, and posted here, that both the Roosevelt, Root, and Russell families received lands and title from William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.

Well, imagine my surprise to learn that SO DID THE ASTORS!
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=astor

I was thinking, who might else have been there at Hastings? Earlier I identified several other families, including Cheney and Clinton (Bill Clinton was not a real Clinton btw, his birth name was different). In doing some research into the FED I learned about Robert S. Lovett, chairman of EH Harriman's railroad empire and a director at National City Bank of NY, and his son Robert A. Lovett, who would be a US Secretary of Defense -
http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&...=1&.intl=us

Anyway, just on a wild hunch did a search for Lovett at houseofnames.

Yep, you guessed it, Lovett, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings. But that's not all - the family crest features three wolves (!!! - see above post about Cerberus).

http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=lovett

Elihu Root won a nobel prize, he was also JP Morgan and EH Harriman's lawyer, first chairman of the CFR, early president of the Carnegie Endowment, Teddy Roosevelt's Sec. of War and later of State, early leader of the American Bar, and was involved in the early passage of "Uniform Laws", which began the long trend of stealing power from the states and giving it to the federal government in the name of regulatory unifomity between the states. Note that Root derives from Rot, which is the old high-German word for Red, I think. Rothschild means red-shield as we all have read many times. I would be very surprised if all of these names and words for red, rus, rose etc. are not all connected at the "root" (no pun intended - but that reminds me of the "root" of our problems and the "rot" in our society!!!).

The Rothschilds changed their name of course, from the original Bauer. Still, funny they chose THAT name.

Ladon-Gog "John" writes about some of these things in a chapter titled 'Rothschild and Other Red Things'. I don't share his religious leanings and be aware that he deals in biblical prophesy from time to time, but there's a lot of interesting stuff in here. The next chapters, 'Henry Drummond the Hun' & 'Drummond Ties to the Rothschilds' , deal with the Drummonds (descended from George, son of Andrew King of Hungary, who accompanied Margaret back to Scotland) and their involvement in directing British funds to the Rothschilds during the American Revolutionary War among other things.

http://www.tribwatch.com/redshield.htm
http://www.tribwatch.com/huns.htm
http://www.tribwatch.com/drumroth.htm


This is tough reading, so I'll offer some quotes:

QUOTE
Mayer Bauer changed the name to "Rothschild" (meaning "red shield") for a reason not generally known. Yes, he had hung a red-shield sign/symbol above the door of his shop while still a poor/common family man, but what did it mean? Apparently, the protection and/or advancement of something red...and I don't think it had anything to do with red potatoes...


QUOTE
In 867 AD, Vikings from Scandanavia, who called themselves "Varangian Rus," appeared near Kiev (north shore of the Black Sea), and eventually took the city from the Khazars. For some years the invaders lived side by side with the Khazars, but thereafter they put the Khazars to flight, at roughly which time the phrase, "Ashkenazi Jew," was heard for the first time in the regions of Germany and Hungary. Arthur Koestler and some other researchers believe that the ruling Khazars were not true Hebrews, but instead Turks who had converted to Judaism...

...I disagree. As Koestler himself acknowledges, there were some true Hebrews in Khazaria...

...Koestler tells of a certain Khazar king named "Joseph," who, although suspected of being a Hebrew by the Jews of western Europe, claimed otherwise in a letter to them...claiming that his fathers were descended from the seventh son of Togarmah, named "Khazar." Now Togarmah was a son of Gomer, and Gomer was a son of Japheth (i.e. not Shem), wherefore it is impossible for the Judaic rulers of Khazaria to have been Hebrews by blood if they were descended from Togarmah. Koestler and others should perhaps entertain the possibility that Joseph might have been lying to the European Jews in order to protect himself, and all other Khazar Jews, from the sort of Vatican persecution that the European Jews had been under, and would again and again be inflicted with.



QUOTE
Note that after the second Vatican Crusade against Jerusalem (1147-49), which was a Templar-led flop, some Jews of Khazaria organized a Zionist movement of their own which also involved a siege of Jerusalem (that never happened)...

...What seems certain is that Khazar Zionism was the very task picked up centuries later by the Bauers, who, as the House of Rothschild, would eventually succeed in creating an official Jewish nation around Jerusalem, but not until 1948.

It is believed by some researchers that this "Star of David" (also called "Shield of David" and "Seal of Solomon") was not a symbol relating to either the Biblical King David or Solomon, but to Solomon ben Duji the Khazar, and his son, David al-Roy. Some websites do not identify them as Khazars, but in any case read this from Arthur Koestler:
"David al-Roy was assassinated - apparently in his sleep, allegedly by his own father-in-law...But the cult did not stop there. According to one theory, the six-pointed "shield of David," which adorns the modern Israeli flag, started to become a national symbol with David al-Roy's crusade..."


QUOTE
The Russell (also meaning "red") clan of Scotland was originally a Jewish family from Germany, known then as the "Roesels," alternatively "Rosel" and "Rossel." One can hardly fail to see the "Rus" in "Russell" or the "Ros" in "Rosel," evoking the proto-Russians ... It's so very interesting that a great leader of the Varangian Rus, Vladimir I, conquered a red land (Galicia), that came to be known as "Red Rus," and that he was called "Vladimir the Red Sun." That's equivalent to calling him the "Red God."...

...I suspect that pastor Charles Russell, founder of the Zion Tract Society (and root of the Jehovah's-Witnesses cult), had been working more closely with the British Rothschilds than the world was supposed to know. He worked openly in support of Zionism when the British and French Rothschilds were spearheading the re-settlement of Jews in the Holy Land...

...It is too difficult for me to see as a coincidence Russell's prediction of Armageddon ... for 1914, the very year that turned out to be the first of World War I; it's as though Russell knew it beforehand.


QUOTE
After recognizing the distinct possibility of modern Russells having an important Illuminati role, I was shocked upon learning that one of the original nine Templars was named, "Rossal."...


QUOTE
...In the next few chapters, I will go a long route to show that the Rosicrucians descend from the Roxolani, where the "Rox" is a variation of "Ros," and where the suffix, "olani," refers to the Alan Huns, a peoples descended from the Biblical Gogi. In other words, the Roxolani were a mix of Rosh and Gogi blood. It was only after coming to this conclusion that I noticed the similarity between "Roxolani" (alternative "Ros-Alani") and "Roslin."


QUOTE
I first learned of a possible tie between the first Rothschild (Mayer) and two Drummond bankers upon stumbling across an official internet document of the Royal Bank of Scotland. Learning therein that the Drummonds had been one of the foremost banking families helped to solidify my theory that some of them were tied to the Rothschild Illuminati...which was itself led by world-scope bankers. But the document also led me to discover that, almost-certainly, Drummond bankers had been involved with the first Rothschild of Germany and his Illuminati boss. I then strongly suspected that the Drummond clan was tied to the early Scottish Hungarians...

In further research, it was high on my list of priorities to find evidence showing that Henry Drummond was also in acceptance of the Maurice story. I soon found a most amazing fact: Henry Drummond himself had written a book, called "Histories of British Noble Families," wherein he not only claimed that the Drummond clan issued forth from Maurice, but that Maurice's bloodline was by a marriage between the Magyar-Hun blood of king Andrew (of Hungary) and his wife, a Russian woman, daughter of a Varangian-Rus king! Although there is more to it, it is due to the Russian side of Maurice that I started to view the Drummond clan as a(nother) Ros(e) Line.


QUOTE
That there were at least two Ros Lines is evidenced by the War of the Roses, where the red rose of Lancaster went to war against the white rose of York. The House of York somehow became the "baby" of the Drummonds, exposed as such in that James III, king of Scotland with Drummond blood, made Sir John Drummond his Ambassador to England...whose job it was to marry the king and the king's sons to daughters of the kings of the House of York (http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dtog/drummon2.html).

Did Henry Drummond see his ancestry in the savage Huns? Was he, in his Histories, leaking information that Drummond elitists/Illuminatists didn't want leaked, that their secrets are bound, not only in Attila, but in the Huns previous to him? The Huns are traced back to a union between a Scythian and a Sumerian (i.e. a Magogite and Nimrod)...

In a Hungarian myth, Nimrod (the engineer of the Tower of Babel) begot two sons, Hunor and Magor, who migrated north to Caucasia/Magog and lived there. Modern Hungarians still freely claim descent from both Huns and Magyars. After Attila settled Hungary temporarily, he was followed a century later by the Avar Huns and, finally, a century after the Avar empire came to a close (in 796), the Magyar king, Arpad, became the patriarch of the modern Hungarians. Remember that name, "Arpad," for his family line was considered gravely important...


QUOTE
Is it not for us to ask a question when we learn that Maurice was, according to Henry Drummond, the grandson of king Andrew, while the Scottish flag soon after became known as "Andrew's Cross"?


(continued below)
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Sanders
post Feb 22 2009, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE
Britannica's best shot at defining "Varangian" is to derive it from the Scandanavian word, "Vaeringjar," meaning "men under oath." I don't agree, but the idea brings me to an important point. Magogians (i.e. Scythians), when swearing oaths or making blood-brother pacts, had made it a custom to slit their wrists, to pour some blood into a cup of wine, and to seal the oaths by drinking the blood together.

Of course, cups of wine remind us of the Cup of Jesus, called the "holy grail." And when we speak of oaths and the holy grail, Freemasons and their secret rituals come to mind. In Freemasonry, the idea of the grail goes beyond the drinking of wine at the Last Supper, to the myth wherein some blood was caught in a cup that spilled from Jesus' body while he hung on the Cross. Everything related to the grail has a magical connotation to it. With all this in mind, note the following concerning the founding of Hungary:
"Soon after Arpad's birth, the seven princes of the Magyars elected Almos as their ruler. They sealed this election with an oath, called the "Blood Oath,' so called because the princes all drank from a single cup in which their blood had been intermingled. They swore to accept Almos and all his descendants as their rulers...'If any of the descendants should be disloyal to the ruler and cause discord among the ruler and his relatives, then shall their blood pour out as ours does now as we make the bond of blood with you'...[and] 'If anyone of the descendants breaks this oath should he be forever cursed.'"
(http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/wwft/1988/4_July/Html/page9
also http://www2.4dcomm.com/millenia/turul.htm).

What we have in the "Blood Oath" above is a life-long brotherhood pact to protect a bloodline for world rule, smacking of the sort made by Freemasons and Illuminatists to the same ends. Might the infamous "Rose Line" be referring to this very Arpad bloodline? Not if the Rose Line is a Rus bloodline...unless the Arpad bloodline married into a Rus bloodline! Here's the Almos bloodline starting with his son, Arpad:

Arpad fathered Zoltán, prince of Hungary;
Zolton fathered Taksony, prince of Hungary;
Taksony fathered duke Mihály (Michael);
Michael fathered duke Vazul (Basil) and duke László (Ladislas "the Bald") [not king Ladislav];
and either Basil or Ladislav fathered king András I (Andrew I)...
the royal line ends a couple of centuries later in 1301.

Because duke Ladislav (or Lazslo) modifies to "Leslie," he figures prominently in this story in that he is suspected to be Bartholomew's father; while I don't know the reasoning behind this possibility, it is supported by some internet sites that show Bart's full name as "Bartholemew Ladislaus Leslie." King Ladislav was born too late to be Bartholemew's father, by the way. Bartholemew came from Hungary with Margaret, and while she married the king of Scotland, he married that king's sister! I should add here that, in time, the Leslie clan of Scotland (that came forth from Bartholemew) furnished the chiefs (i.e. Earls) of Ross and of Rothes. The 21st Earl of Rothes is alive today and is head of the Clan Leslie Society.

Andrew/Andras (whether the son of duke Ladislav, or of Basil) theoretically becomes the progenitor of a Ros Line simply because there arose a Clann Aindrea (alternative, "Clan Andras") which evolved into, and was alternatively called, the "Ross" clan of Scotland. In this paragraph, you are at, or near, the climax of this chapter, so please don't fail to understand: there was no Ross family. Rather, there was an Andras family that was given the title of "Ros." Why? That's the huge question. In my opinion, and apparently in mine alone, the Andras family descended not only from Andrew, but from the Varangian Rus. The initial family title would therefore have been "Andras de Ros," or something similar.


QUOTE
...Let me spell this theory out to you in case you are confused: the Drummond clan is the Rose Line, a mix of Arpad, Rus and Russian blood...


QUOTE
...Clearly, the man that brought the world the cult that brought Christianity pre-tribulationism knew that he was a descendant of the Arpad blood oath and of the royal Viking Rus. Andrew's father is shown as duke Ladislav, who's wife (i.e. Andrew's mother) was a Russian...Premislavna, the daughter of the great Varangian-Rus pirate, Vladimir I. Thus, Andrew had both a Russian wife and a Russian mother; both women were wives of Viking-Rus kings, Vladimir and his son, Yaroslav. Moreover, if Drummond was correct in claiming that Andrew was the son of duke Ladislav, then Andrew was the brother of Bartholemew! No wonder, then, that the Leslies came to rule the house of Ross!!

.......

(final link, Drummond/Rothschild connections)

QUOTE
This Frederick II, king of Prussia, was son to the sister of George II, Hanoverian (i.e. German) king of England, who was herself daughter to George I, the first Hanoverian king of England. Frederick II of Hesse-Cassel married the daughter of George II, and the two gave birth to William IX of Hesse-Cassel, the prince through whom the Rothschild empire owes its existence. These blood ties between British and German rulers seem extremely important, for (in the next chapter) we are going to see how Britain and Prussia formed an alliance to provide alternating bishops of Jerusalem in a Zionist scheme that involved Henry Drummond Jr. and, in my opinion, the Rothschilds.

Were the Drummonds important and wealthy enough to form alliances with the Rothschilds? We learn that from the marriage of the eldest daughter of Sir John Drummond to king Robert III (1390),
"all the succeeding Kings of Scotland and of Britain have been descended from the House of Drummond, and there is Drummond blood in the veins of most of the crowned heads of Europe"
(http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dtog/drummon2.html).
"As a bank, the Drummonds were said to be able to withstand the call of half the world"
(Blackheath Connection, Dan Byrnes
http://whatson.northnet.net.au/users/black...al3.htm#_ftn21)

At another website, we learn exactly when the Drummond bankers became huge: "The bank proved highly successful during the last quarter of the eighteenth century..." That's exactly during and after the 1776-1783 Hessian-soldier rental period, throughout which time we see Drummond bankers working under the British Treasury to oversee payments to British soldiers in America. The Hessian soldiers made up about half (or more) of the British forces in America, and it's quite possible that the Drummonds were also overseeing their pay. If so, then there you have it, a possible Drummond-Rothschild link, for the rented Hessian soldiers belonged to Mayer Rothschild's boss!!

The Rothschilds became wealthy by banking and working the monies of rulers rather than merchants, and in that way they could also run the course of history by being wicked enough to turn their customers into their puppets. We can now know that the Drummonds were also dealing with rulers, and in fact they gave a loan to George III in 1778. But, the question is, were they also manipulating their ruler-customers? If so, to what end? Perhaps it just so happened, or perhaps it was by design, that the Drummond bankers were in charge of the king's affairs while American Independence hung in the balance:
"In addition two of the [Drummond] partners were involved in substantial Treasury contracts for the payment of British troops in Canada and America before and during the American War of Independence. The firm also kept accounts for King George III and other members of the royal family. By 1815 Messrs Drummond had over 3,500 accounts. In 1824 customer deposits exceeded Ł2 million"
(http://www.georgianindex.net/banking_economics/banking.html).
In the business of handling money for the royals and/or politicians, the Drummond bankers may have been joined by the new kid on the block, the banking House of Rothschild, for "...within five years [of 1810], Nathan [Rothschild] had become the chief financial advisor to the British government"
(http://www.minesandcommunities.org/Company/rothschild01.htm).

The question is, where did Nathan get all his money to make loans within political spheres, when his father was yet a commoner in the mid 1760s while running merely his Red-Shield shop (in Frankfurt, Hesse)? Apparently, the moment of opportunity arrived for Mayer when king George III (grandson of George II) needed more soldiers than Britain could provide, apparently, to fight the rebel Americans. George knew that the rulers of Hesse-Cassel had rented soldiers to Venice and other countries previously, and, besides, the current ruler of Hesse-Cassel, Frederick II, was his cousin. Thus, a deal was signed between these two cousins; of the more than 30,000 soldiers rented, more than 15,000 were from Hesse-Cassel and some 2,500 from Hesse-Hanau, the latter being the jurisdiction of Frederick's son, prince William IX, Mayer's other boss. According to one internet site, it was Mayer himself, under "Count Frederick of Hesse [who] formed a group known as the Hessian soldiers" (http://www.glencoin.com/house.htm).

Okay, so what did we have here? We had Mayer working for Frederick, whose cousin was George III, a king who was receiving loans from the Drummond bankers. And what do we suppose the king was borrowing money from the Drummonds for if not to pay the rental fees for the soldiers he so badly needed from Frederick? If that answer is correct, then the Drummonds were potentially lending king George a whopping amount of money, for Britannica recorded that 3,191,000 pounds were paid in rental fees to Frederick II during the eight-year period (1776 to 1783) in which the rentals continued.

Frederick made Mayer his personal banker at this time...


QUOTE
Merely some modest research, admittedly restricted to the internet, leads me to conclude confidently that the early Rothschild Illuminati was connected to the Drummond Apostolic cult, and that the two groups worked well together with the Anglican Church and other European powers to springboard Zionism. As the Drummond cult faded into the background after the mid 1800s, the Rothschilds would hold tenaciously to the British power structures; together, they would become instrumental in creating the state of Israel. By then (1948), the official commencement of the Golden-Dawn Paradise had definitely been scheduled for the year 2000.

As the world hardly appeared as a Utopia or a Paradise as that year drew near, the best the Illuminatists could do was to call it a "New World Order," but the less often they mentioned that phrase, the better, for the world hardly seemed as though it were renewing itself. And it hasn't. Same old conflicts, problems, and grief. The Illuminatists perhaps don't realize that a world controlled by the force of their money and selfish ambitions can never be a Utopia. Therein is their greatest problem: themselves!


Allow me to point out something which somewhat contradicts the above quotes - that the Rothschilds were divided and somewhat tenative in their support of the early Zionist movement, at least to the degree that we know, that Edmond de Rothschild and Theodor Hertzl butted heads in Palestine in the early 20th century, and that, get this, the British and French houses of the Rothschilds may be divided on the issue of Israel and Palestine to this day (!). I read this opinion somewhere recently, sorry I can't post a link. Note however that Arafat was treated in a French Hospital. That, nor any general French empathy for the Palestinian cause is not proof of anything of course, but I am reminded of Aaron Russo's comment that, according to Nick Rockefeller, the Palestinian issue is a problem that even the ruling elite don't know how to resolve. We're all aware that there are competing camps among the rulling elite, but, maybe the Rothschild family themselves are divided!??

Food for thought.
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Sanders
post Feb 22 2009, 12:01 PM
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To add to the above, what he is talking about is thoroughly threshed out here in this thread - maybe best by my latest attempt at a family tree 5 or 6 posts above.

I didn't talk about the details of this genealogy chart much, maybe when I have time I will. The salient point is, this dragon blood-line, or "rose-line", is real. These leaders who have perverted our country are all part of the club, many of their families have been in the inner circle since William of Normandy, of Viking and French noble parentage (as were the Templars who followed him) took over England. The roots of this "conquering culture" go back much farther however, and the double serpent tails of both Echidna, of Greek myth, and Melusine, of later Medieval myth, give it away. The double tail, like the two snakes of Herme's staff, represent the two tails of the dragon, the two routes by which the dragon cult spread from Sumer to both Egypt and the Black Sea, and then met again in the Greek theatre. Just as the two serpents intertwine on Herme's staff, the Gogi and Egyptian branches meet and copulate at numerous points in history, usually immortalized in myth, the princess Melusine (Starbucks logo) apparently being an important and obvious one. There were also marraiges between Norman families (families of royal French and Viking birth) and Eastern (Khazar?) royals, which I've also tried to highlight in the many (and sometimes possibly flawed) genealogy attempts in this thread. When I say "flawed", I'm simply referring to minor details, such as the parentage of Poppa "of Bavaria", wife of Rollo the Viking. Turns out she wasn't from Bavaria at all - I've done a lot of reading to identify her, and I think my last genealogy attempt, with her as the daughter of Count Gui of Senlis is the correct genealogy.
http://www.robertsewell.ca/poppa.html

[EDIT March 2009: I've discovered that the image of two serpents twisted around a staff pre-dates Greece and is found in Sumer, so I'm re-thinking my hypothesis that the Caduceus (Herme's Staff) really represents these proposed two branches. I don't know. Still, the basic idea of conquering-culture splitting into Egypt and Gogi branches and then coming together again in the Greek theatre is both valid and a useful way to think about it IMO, even if the original meaning of the Caduceus was different.]

We don't really understand this, and so we are perplexed as to why Israel is given a free pass, why the media continues to treat Israel with kid gloves.

I DON'T understand it. Everything we are told about the world is partly a coverup. The information is withheld.

...It was probably a mistake to name this thread the 'dragon blood-line' - some might think I'm a kook, obsessed with dragons and medieval stuff like that. Well, I very well might be a kook ... whatever, I probably should have named the thread 'the Rose-line'.

Rose, rous, roosevelt, root, rot, rothschild, rus, russell ... I'm even starting to think that Bruce, as in 'Robert the Bruce' (originally Brusse) is yet another alteration.

I think you get the drift.
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Sanders
post Feb 24 2009, 07:10 AM
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Add one more to the list of families granted land and title for service at the battle Hastings in 1066.

I truly didn't expect this.





Also from Normandy.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=disney
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Sanders
post Feb 26 2009, 02:17 PM
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This post will restate some things, but in the context of families active in the modern era (EDIT: actually, the list of families will come in the following post as this has gotten too long). Recently I've been flabergasted (but not entirely surprised) by the number of families (whose names are familiar to us all) whose lineage includes an ancestor who received lands and title from Duke William of Normandy (William the Conqueror) for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings in 1066. This event is ultra important not only because it changed the leadership of England forever, but also because William and his Norman allies were the product of a mix of French aristocracy and Viking invaders of prior generations. The French side of this equation is further of interest because of the rise of Catharism in Lanquedoc, Toulouse and Aquitaine, and the fact that France was run by the Carolingians and before that the Merovingians in the centuries leading up to this event whose collective blood was passed along in the families which prevailed.

In addition to families represented by knights who accompanied William to England, there is another batch of names that relate to the Hun (Magyar/Khazar) emmigration from Khazaria to Hungary and from there into eastern Europe, specifically the area around Bavaria. This is where the Rothschilds came from (original name Bauer, similar to Bayern=Bavaria). The surrounding areas are Baden to the west, Thuringia to the north, and Bohemia and Austria to the east and south (in between Hungary and Bavaria). http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6930/germanyf.jpg
These place names all come up when you dig into the roots of the banking elite in particular.

Also, I'll make comments on the symbols used in the family crests. (All of this relates to other information posted earlier in this thread.)

The "Hun" migration connects to the Norman invasion with the return of Margaret to Britain, accompanied by members of the royal house of Hungary, and the marriage of herself to Malcom III of Scotland and her daughter to Henry I of England, also described earlier in the thread. (Her Hungarian entourage became the cream of Scottish nobility, Bartholomew Ladislav (Leslie) married Malcom's sister Beatrix and prince George begot the Drummond clan.) I also traced these people and other related noble families back to Melissene and her grandfather the Byzantine Emperor Michael I Rangabe, whose white cross on blue can be found above Margaret in her chapel in Edinburgh. Something that is hard to ignore, is that the upper left part of the flag of Greece is the same white cross on blue, accompanied by 9 blue and white stripes.



This would appear to be the model for the flag of the British East India Trading Company (also with 9 stripes) ...



... or, vice versa (?). The Greek flag is apparently not very old, but its elements are, and its history vague.

From Wikipedia:

QUOTE
Greek flags during Antiquity and the Byzantine Empire
White and blue have been symbolic Greek colors since antiquity with historic significance;[5] their adoption for the new Greek state was a natural continuation from previous uses. In ancient Greece they were connected with goddess Athena and were used in Alexander the Great's army banners,[6] while Greeks abroad were often recognized by their white clothes with blue details[5]. During Byzantine times white and blue were the colors of navy and other flags (including in same cases the Devilion, the official flag of the Imperial Guard, being the closest to a "state flag"),[3] coats of arms of imperial dynasties, uniforms, Emperors' clothes, Patriarchs' thrones etc.[5][6] The cross, along with the Chi-Rho, was a symbol of the empire...


The Chi-Rho btw...



...in addition to being a "symbol of the empire" in the east as stated above, is very ancient and was likely the original precursor of the skull and bones symbol (as I mentioned once earlier in the thread). doh1.gif

The 9 stripes on the other hand, even according to wikipedia, represent the 9 muses. Searching around for info on that led me to a chapter by none other than 'John', the author of Ladon-Gog, where he begins by stating:

QUOTE
This chapter started as an investigation into whether the Fulk rulers of Anjou (France), who eventually made it to the throne of Templar Jerusalem in Fulk V, were from Byzantine royals. The idea occurred to me when I saw a Phocas family loyally surrounding Byzantine emperors at about the time that Fulks appear out of nowhere in Anjou. It was a long shot if based only on the similarity of terms, but as it turned out, it was worth investigating because I learned that the Phocas' were from the Hermes-dragon cult of Armenia. For, emperor Nicephorus II Phocas was painted holding a scabbard encoiled by a single snake (i.e. a symbol of Cadusii Armenians).


Now in case you aren't familiar with the Fulks of Anjou, you can find them in my latest genealogy tree showing some east-west connections and how the Arpads of Hungary, the Varangian Rus and Margaret's royal English family all mix together roughly around the time William and his Norman invaders conquered England ...

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4908/familieszk0.jpg

You can find Fulk II of Anjou toward the left, he's an ancestor of William the Conqueror on the side of William's grandmother, Judith of Brittany. Fulk V became one of the Kings of Jerusalem upon the success of the first crusade. Now what John is saying is, that these Fulks, who appear in France out of nowhere by the way and start marrying into royal circles, are the Phocas of Byzantium (!!!).

We know that Melissene's marriage to Inger of Scandinavia (a Viking name if I ever heard one!) was considered important enough to make up legends about her, i.e. the serpent-tailed Melusine (of Starbuck logo-legend) ... and, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she bump into her future French noble husband in the forests of ANJOU!??? While he was BOAR HUNTING!???

And so the super-wealthy and practically royal (de) Vere family (one of whom - Nicholas - carries on about the dragon cult) who believe it was one their own (in the myth) who married the serpent-woman, sports a BLUE BOAR on their family crest!??

(For those who haven't followed along in this thread, the Boar is a symbol of Apollo/Artemis-represented Black Sea region peoples in Greek myth, notably in the Calydonian Boar Hunt. Calydon was a place in Greece, while Calydonia was a name for Scotland, the Boar is found on some notable family crests shown below).

Anyway, John goes on in his chapter "The Blue Muses of Avalon" -

QUOTE
...Not only that, but an investigation of Byzantium royals in the Phocus era gives support for my theory that Merovingians (and therefore the freemason founders of America) were from Amorites, which in turn reveals the impetus for Merovingians acting as the dragon guts of Templar Zionism -- i.e. Amorites were Rightfully booted out of pre-Jerusalem by Israelites, but they wanted it back seeing that it became The Holy City of God Destined for World Rule.

I also found a solid connection between Anjou and Wales, which was important because the previous few chapters require that the French freemasons reach Wales before jumping to America's freemason founders. That connection, for one, is in the Montgomery family, founders of Montgomeryshire. Take notice of the red lion on gold background in the Arms of Montgomeryshire, the very symbol in the Arms of Armenia.


You'll notice if you look close, that around the dragons' necks in that coat of Montgomeryshire are little dead sheep hanging from collars. John explains this at the end of his chapter -

QUOTE
Members of the Order of the Golden Fleece, often important royalty, wore a neck chain with a small dead sheep -- i.e. the golden fleece -- as the main ornament. Suddenly, the two green dragons with golden fleeces dangling from their necks, in the Arms of Montgomeryshire (Wales), seem more connect-able to Colchis' golden fleece than when I suggested the connection in a recent chapter.


Colchis by the way, was in modern-day Georgia next to Iberia and north of Armenia, and was, along with Phrygia, an original center of Cybelle worship. In the Greek Myth, Jason steals the Golden Fleece while the dragon guarding it sleeps, I'm sure there is deep meaning connecting the myths of Jason and the Argonauts to the subject of this thread, but I haven't a clue what it is (well, maybe I have a vague idea). Here's the myth, (see if you can figure it out!) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason#The_Que...e_Golden_Fleece

Returning to 'the Blue Muses', here's John's article...
http://www.tribwatch.com/byzantium.htm

... and he goes on to mention the Bruces (Scottish rulers):

QUOTE
For new readers, and to create a proper backdrop for interesting insights introduced in this chapter, let me repeat a few things. I have been tracing the Bruces/Brusi (eventually kings of Scotland) to Aprutium (alternative name of Abruzzo region of Italy) = mythcode Aphrodite of the Greco-Trojan theater. It thereby looks feasible to connect the Bruce blue and white to the Greek blue and white. That is, I doubt it's a coincidence that I had traced the Pari Trojans (Mysians, actually) to the Bruces only to find just now that the Muse/Pari colors were the Bruce colors. I'm confident enough already to claim that the "owners" of the blue and white in the Greek flag produced (or at least merged with) the Bruce family...


He is of course spot on, if you look around the middle of the genealogy chart I provided a link to above, you'll see Rognvald Brusse marrying Arlogia Vladimirovna of Russia - Arlogia's ancestors on her mother's side were indeed those "owners of the blue and white", the royal Byzantine family of Michael Rangabe. What is truly amazing, is that Arlogia's brother was none other than Yaraslov, the Varangian Rus ruler of Kiev (Ukraine), who sheltered Edward "the Exile", Margaret's father and then hier to the English throne before he moved to Hungary. Yaroslav was on good terms with the Arpads of Hungary (why is unclear, but I suspect the reason is this very dragon blood-line I've been talking about!!!), in fact he gave his daughter Anastasia in marriage to (Hungarian) King Andrew.

I won't go through John's whole chapter, other than to recommend anyone interested to read it - except for one other thing. He connects the 9 Muses to the 9 witches of Avalon, who he notes were called "Morgens". In going through the family crests of the elite, the vast majority feature a color scheme of Red and White/Silver (or Red and Gold), or, Blue and White/Silver (or Blue and Gold) - with one notable exception, the Welsh family of Morgan, which is Green and Yellow/Gold -



...Behold Morgan la Fey, superior of the nine Morgen witches of Bute, dressed in Green and Gold -



..................................

Essentially, in addition to the Melusine connection (Margaret's pedigree, the marriage of the Brusse family into the Byzantine line, etc.) and a couple of other links between Byzantine/Armenian/Khazar lines and those of Europe I've mentioned in this thread, all of which re-linked the Noble families which would rule Britain and take part in the crusades to their ancient origins in the lands around Anatolia and the Black Sea, we can add one more big one. Namely, the Fulks of Anjou.


To be continued...
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Sanders
post Feb 26 2009, 05:39 PM
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OK, here we go. To be taken with a grain of salt - none of this may mean anything. (Though I seriously doubt it!)

In no particular order ...

Loy
Notable: Frank E. Loy, founding director of the (Peter G. Peterson) Institute of International Economics
Seated in Lorraine with lands and manor. The crest below is the French branch of the family, the German branch hails from Bavaria - note the blue diamonds on silver on the French crest, evoking the Bavarian flag.
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm



------------------------------
Paulson
Notable: Hank Paulson, until recently the Treasury Secretary, a current IMF Governor, and formerly the CEO of Goldman/Sachs.
Seated from very early times in Caithness, an area of northern Scotland which was Viking controlled from the 9th century.
Blue and White/Silver crest - note the red Templar Cross.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=Paulson



------------------------------
Taft
Notable: Alphonso Taft, co-founder of Skull and Bones and Secretary of War under Grant, & his son William H. Taft POTUS.
Seated in Cheshire from before the Norman invasion. Note the 3 red Templar Crosses.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=taft



------------------------------
Russell
Notable: William H. Russell, co-founder of Skull and Bones (along with Taft), Charles Taze Russell, an evangelist central to 19th century pre-tribulation doctrine and Christian Zionism. The Russell family was heavily involved in the Opium trade in China, FDR's grandfather Warren Delano helped them run their Opium business.
Roots in Rousel, Normandy, granted lands and title in England by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=russell



------------------------------
Roosevelt
Notable: Two US presidents Theodore and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, CIA operative Kermit Roosevelt led the US coup against Iran in 1953, the Roosevelts are related by marraige to the Astor and Delano families and hold extensive lands in Manhattan.
Granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=roosevelt



------------------------------
Astor
Wealthy family with extensive holdings in Manhattan, also were heavily involved in the Chinese opium trade, related by marriage to the Roosevelts. John Jacob Astor was the richest man in America at the time of the Revolution and was a major stockholder in the First and Second Banks of the United States.
Roots in Normandy, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=astor



------------------------------
Root
Notable: Elihu Root, Teddy Roosevelt's Sec. of War and later State, provided legal services to JP Morgan & EH Harriman, 1st chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations, president of the Carnegie Endowment.
Seated in Kent, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
Blue diamonds on gold (similar to Loy)
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=root



------------------------------
Lovett
Notable: Robert S. Lovett, chairman of Harriman railroad lines and director @ Nat. City Bank of NY (first investor bank in the Federal Reserve), his son Robert A. Lovett, US Secretary of Defense under Truman (described as the "Cold War architect").
Seated in Buckingham from early times, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
Note 3 wolves, evidence of ancient Black Sea region or Rus connections.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=lovett



------------------------------
Taylor
Notable: Jacob and Moses Taylor. Jacob Taylor was an agent for John Jacob Astor, his son Moses was a US agent for the Rothschild banking house who became president of and controlled Nat. City Bank of NY (now Citibank).
German, English and Scottish branches, the British Taylors were granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
(Crest shown is the German branch, featuring a chalice.)
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm



------------------------------
Cheney
Notable: (need I say?)
Scottish with Norman roots, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
(Note the bull horns, a significant pagan symbol.)
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=Cheney

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Sanders
post Feb 26 2009, 05:41 PM
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(continued from above)

Vere/de Vere
Wealthy English noble family with roots in Normandy. 20 de Veres have held the title of Earl of Oxford, some claim that Edward de Vere (Earl of Oxford, Lord Great Chamberlain to Elizabeth I) penned Shakespeare's works. The husband of Melusine in medieval legend is identified by some to have been Raymond de Vere.
Granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=vere



Note the blue boar atop the above crest. More boar crests follow:

------------------------------
Bush
Dutch, English and German branches.
The German branch (prominant in the Rhineland) features a large fleur de lis (symbol of French nobility) in blue and white/silver, the English branch (seated in Yorkshire from very early times) features 3 boars.

German

English


------------------------------
Walker
Geroge Herbert Walker was an investment banker who dealt with New York financiers of the early 20th century and was president of W.A. Harriman & Co., his daughter married Prescott Bush. I include the Walker crest because I find it interesting that both the Walker and Bush families had branches in England and Germany, and the English branches of both were seated from early times in Yorkshire. The Walker crest features crescent moons and rings, both significant pagan symbols.
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/W...amily-crest.htm



------------------------------
McDonough
Notable: William J. McDonough, CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York until 2003, vice chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations, former vice-chairman @ Merrill Lynch, director on the Peter G. Peterson Institute for International Economics and other posts.
Irish, seated in Cork from very early times. Crest features a single large boar.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=mcdonough



------------------------------
Rumsfeld
Notable: Donald Rumsfeld, Sec. of Defense under Bush
Seated in Scotland from very early times, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=rumsfeld



------------------------------
Brown
Notable: Alexander Brown was a major stockholder in the 2nd Nat. Bank of the US, and his sons' company Brown Brothers was the biggest merchant bank in America for much of the 19th century. Their London branch maintained close ties to the House of Rothschild and the Bank of England. The US bank merged with W.A.Harriman & Co. during the Great Depression to become Brown Brothers Harriman where Prescott Bush was a managing director.
Seated in Cumberland, granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
English crest features 3 fleur de lis on blue, Scottish branch is the same with red.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=brown


------------------------------

More to come ...
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Sanders
post Feb 26 2009, 09:11 PM
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With 2 or 3 exceptions so far (all of which being the Morgan Green and Gold theme), all of the above crests are themed in red & white or blue & white (some very elite clans were allowed to use gold instead of silver/white).

There's your "red, white and blue" - !!!!

Later, as I continue, several banking family crests from the lands around Bavaria will prove to be exceptions, for example a black and gold theme crops up. Still, the elite crests of western Europe and Britain are almost exclusively either Red and White, Blue and White, or Red White and Blue.

OK, there are only so many available colors and maybe I'm reading too much into this. Still, there are the stripes - the red and white stripes of Phoenicia and Viking sails - which show up also on the family crest of Wash (& altered name Washington), and, of all places, the crest of Rubin, as in Robert Rubin, Clinton's Treasury Secretary and veteran executive of Goldman/Sachs and Citigroup who, along with Greenspan, started us down the road to H@ll in a handbasket and whose apprentices are all now the Obama Financial team -

Rubin - first found in Bavaria
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=rubin+



.... or David Rubenstein, founder of the Carlyle Group investment house, former advisor to Carter, director at the Peter G. Peterson Institute for Internation Economics, Trilateral Commission member ... (same family crest as Rubin.)
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=rubenstein
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Sanders
post Feb 28 2009, 10:49 AM
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These next three crests drive to the heart of what this thread is about.



http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/S...amily-crest.htm
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm


The first, the Stewarts, received lands and title in Shropshire, western England from the king, though not for service at the battle of Hastings. Both houseofnames and Wikipedia have the Stewarts (which was originally a title and not a surname, the name of the first Stewart in England was Alan FitzFlaad) moving to Shropshire from Brittany after the Norman invasion, though the two sources conflict as to whether FitzFlaad and his clan recieved their lands and title from William the Conqueror or his son Henry I. Wikipedia states that scholars are unsure if the family's heritage was Breton or Norman. I'd bet it was Norman - particularly since lands were bestowed on them despite not being present at Hastings. The House of Stewart supplied many Scottish and English monarchs. The reign of the House began when Walter, High Stewart of Scotland married Marjorie Bruce, daughter of King Robert I at the end of the 14th century and ended officially with Anne, Queen of all Britain at the beginning of the 18th century - quite a long time and quite a few kings and queens. Mary, Queen of Scots btw was a Stewart. I don't know where and why the Stewarts picked up the blue and white checks, nor may there be any way of knowing, but under the circumstances it's natural to assume this is a nod to Byzantine connections, maybe it was adopted after intermarriage with the Bruces, but that doesn't explain the checks (the significance of which will hopefully be apparent in a second).

I find it interesting to compare the various crests of the Stewarts, St. Clairs and Bruces. The British and French Sinclair and (St.) Claire crests are all Red-themed, there are several for the different branches of this family descended from Rollo the Viking and no blue is ever used. http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm The Brusse and Bruce crests on the other hand are blue, and blue & red, respectively.

The Bruces, according to houseofnames, had their roots in Normandy, and have branches in Scotland, France and England. The English Bruces were seated in Yorkshire (as was the Bush family) and received their lands and title for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings from William the conqueror (who they followed to England from Normandy in 1066). It is around this time when Robert II le Brusse (the French form of the name) married Agnes St. Claire, joining these two noble Norman families. http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4908/familieszk0.jpg

This, and I'm only guessing but this is an educated guess bordering on the obvious, is where Red gets added to the Blue and White Brusse crest. One can almost extrapolate in a general way that the Red themed crests denote Viking anscestry while Byzantine connections manifest in Blue, which generally fits a pattern which I have been seeing (and have talked about with regard to the Blue/White cross of Rangabe). Point is, the Norman Brusse family retains its all Blue and White crest while the English and Scottish Bruces use ones which mix elements of both Blue and Red, coinciding with marriage to the (Viking) Sinclairs.

Brusse
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=brusse
Bruce
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=bruce

Actually, I overstated, the blue and white French Brusse crest does include a small red rose .... which is interesting as well! One of the French St. Claire crests has three of them -


http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm

The second of these 3 blue and white checked crests is that of the Fulks. I will assume (and am almost certain from looking at the crest) that the family is an outcrop of the Fulks of Anjou. The first post in this series (above) points to the proposition that the Fulks were in fact the Phocas of Byzantium, which provides a pretty good hypothesis as to why the Italian Fulks use a blue and white theme, though I couldn't say why the crest of the German Fulks (which is gold and black) does not. Fulk V of Anjou was king of Jerusalem, and married Melisende (not to be confused with Melissene) of Armenian parentage and produced Geoffrey of Anjou, who married Matilda daughter of King Henry thus starting the Plantagenet line.

The third crest is that of the Cohens, who are not related to either the Fulks of Anjou or the Stewarts in any obvious way. Cohen is a distinguished Jewish name which derives from Kagan, which meant priest/king in Khazaria.

Obviously, something is going on here. One could reasonably suggest that at least in the case of Cohen the use of blue and white checks is merely a coincidence, but I think there's more to it, mainly because I am aware of the influence of Khazar descendents among the elite of Byzantium following the collapse of the Khazar empire, and I know this from looking through the family trees of various Byzantine emperors from this time (the era immediately preceding William's invasion of England and the Crusades). Maybe the key lies in Armenia, I'm not sure. Maybe I need to look into the Hohens, who used Red and White checks in their crest, identical to the Cohen crest exept for the color change.

Admittedly, I present more questions than answers (which is nothing new!), but I found it very interesting that these three crests of prominent families which would seem to be unconnected in any way would share the same blue and white checks.
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Sanders
post Feb 28 2009, 07:26 PM
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I just learned that the daughter of Fulk IV, Ermengarde (Fulk V King of Jerusalem's sister) married William IX "the Troubadour" Duke of Aquitaine. The marraige was without issue and didn't last, but I thought it was quite interesting that these two families chose to join.

The Dukes of Aquitaine descended from Guillaume de Gellone, count of Toulouse. Toulouse, like nearby Languedoc, was a center of Catharism and the movement spread into Aquitaine as well.

Here's a section of a genealogy I did about a year ago, it's sort of sloppy but gives a sense of where William IX of Aquitaine fits in - you can find him toward the left about a 3rd of the way down. The illustrious Eleanor of Aquitaine was his granddaughter, from her marriage to king Henry come the King Edwards of England. The Dukes of Aquitaine share at least 2 ancestors I could figure with the Counts of Toulouse, and connect with the Hughes of Lusignan as well. All three families took part in the crusades, as did the Fulks.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2182/aquitaine.png


I've long been under the impression that William "the Troubadour" and "courtly love" embodied Cathar values, so I poked around looking for some confirmation. The following site didn't say as much, but I found it to be quite good ... refreshingly free of point of view, and its summations succinct.
http://www.languedocmysteries.info/courtlylove.htm

QUOTE
It seems indisputable that the idea of courtly love was developed by the Troubadours in and around the Languedoc and the Aquitaine. It is also true that this development took place at the same time that Catharism eclipsed Catholicism in the hearts of the people north of the Pyrenees, which was also the time that Kabbalistic studies re-emerged into the light.

Perhaps more significant is the effect of Moslem Spain. At this same time, the twelfth century, the Duke of Aquitaine conquered territory south of the Pyrenees, and part of the booty was some 200 harem girls skilled in singing and poetry. The Duke was soon succeeded by William IX a young man who is now recognised as the very first troubadour.


A short passage from a different page -

QUOTE
That Kabbalistic writings should surface in the Languedoc, precisely at the time and in the place that dualist Gnostic cathars and mystical Troubadours flourished, has excited justifiable interest.


There was apparently little or no precedent in the Latin world for the themes and song-form used by the Troubadours, hence there is some interest in its origins. I ran into another site ('Absolute Astronomy') that listed a handful of theories.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Troubadour

QUOTE
The early study of the troubadours focussed intensely on their origins. No academic consensus was ever achieved in the area. Today, one can distinguish at least eleven competing theories...


Remember, the patriarch of the Templar Knights was Bernard of Clairvaux, who used his influence to get Innocent II, who would bestow papal approval on the Order, installed as pope. One theory listed is:

QUOTE
2. Bernardine-Marianist or Christian
According to this theory, it was the theology espoused by Bernard of Clairvaux and the increasingly important Mariology that most strongly influenced the development of the troubadour genre. Specifically, the emphasis on religious and spiritual love, disinterestedness, mysticism, and devotion to Mary would explain "courtly love". The emphasis of the reforming Robert of Arbrissel on "matronage" to achieve his ends can explain the troubadour attitude towards women. Chronologically, however, this hypothesis is hard to sustain (the forces believed to have given rise to the phenomenon arrived later than it). But the influence of Bernardine and Marian theology can be retained without the origins theory...


And now that I think of it, is the "Clair" in Clairvaux somehow related to the "Claire" in St. Claire!?? They must be (!).

Among the other theories,

QUOTE
1. Arabic (also Arabist or Hispano-Arabic)
Ezra Pound, in his Canto VIII, famously declared that William of Aquitaine "had brought the song up out of Spain / with the singers and veils..." referring to the troubadour song. In his study, Lévi-Provençal is said to have found four Arabo-Hispanic verses nearly or completely recopied in William's manuscript...


QUOTE
3. Celtic or Chivalric-Matriarchal
The survival of pre-Christian sexual mores and warrior codes from matriarchal societes, be they Celtic, Germanic, or Pictish, among the aristocracy of Europe can account for the idea (fusion) of "courtly love"...


QUOTE
5. (Crypto-)Cathar
According to this thesis, troubadour poetry is a reflection of Cathar religious doctrine. While the theory is supported by the traditional and near-universal account of the decline of the troubadours coinciding with the suppression of Catharism during the Albigensian Crusade (first half of the thirteenth century)...
.

QUOTE
6. Liturgical
The troubadour lyric may be a development of the Christian liturgy and hymnody. The influence of the Song of Songs has even been suggested. There is no preceding Latin poetry resembling that of the troubadours.


The "Song of Songs", sometimes called the "Song of Solomon" is highly revered in Kabbalah. From Wikipedia:
QUOTE
The Song of Songs is perhaps the most important Biblical text for the Kabbalah. Following the writing and dissemination of the Book of the Zohar in the 14th and 15th centuries, Jewish mysticism took on a strongly erotic element, and the Song of Songs came to be regarded as an example of sacred erotica...


What does all this have to do with anything? Simply, I attempt to make the point that Gnostic/dualistic influences, which I associate with Kabbalah (and with pagan traditions as well - I was gonna say 'older' pagan traditions but Kabbalah is in fact very very old, long predating Judaism and sharing many tenets with ancient pagan beliefs), coursed in the veins of the elite, despite the efforts of the Catholic Church to stamp them out. This is evident not only with Catharism but also in terms of the belief system practiced by the Templars, at least from what we know about them. That's why I chose to point out the theory that Bernard of Clairvaux and Mariology (the study of Mary - Mary Magdalene was highly revered by the Templars and the Virgin Mary by the Rosicrucians - in both cases the adulation of the female is the salient point IMO) influenced the songs of the Troubadours of Aquitaine. Actually, I think all of these movements were simply different manifestations of the same thing - an ancient pagan belief in the principle of duality. I would go so far as to suggest that the religious leanings of the pagan Vikings, certain noble families of Byzantium (which, remember, despite its being a Christian city was sandwiched between recently conquered Jewish Khazaria to the north and Armenia, where Manichaeism and Paulicianism spread, to the south), the (Kabbalistic) Cathars of France and even certain houses in Germania who also arrived from Khazaria via Hungary, would have had no difficulty getting along and intermarrying, which, by the genealogy, seems to be the case, in fact it appears as if these lines were connected and reconnected over great distances intentionally. The elite of the time may even have been aware or believed that their roots intertwined, a view which, as unlikely as it might seem to some, is supported to a degree by family crests, legends and myths. One example might be the crests sharing blue and white checks I explored above. Another might be the fact that the Hungarian Arpads, descended from Magyars and Kabars of Khazaria, held that they (including their ancestor Attila the Hun) descended from Woden, a Viking god/king. [EDIT Mar 2009: Strike that - this claim appears to be erroneous, rather, the Magyars may have their roots in Subartu, and maybe the Huns as well with Nimrod being an ancestor to both in myths.] I've pointed out several of these east/west marriages (Melissene being maybe the first, hence her immortalization in legend?), but note also that Alexius II Comnenus (a Byzantine Emperor in the 12th century) was the great-great grandson of William IX of Aquitaine!

One other thing I have stumbled onto along these same lines that relates back to the Stewarts. I found a site that states the following:

QUOTE
Richard’s mother was Anne Mortimer, the daughter of Roger 4th Earl of Mortimer, and Eleanor de Holland, who, according to genealogist David Hughes, could claim Davidic descent through the Exilarchs. Eleanor’s great-great-grandmother, a descendant of Pagano “the Hebrew” of Pisa, married Richard Fitzalan, 7th Earl of Arundel.


I checked with my favorite genealogy site and Eleanor of Holland (spelled here Alianore) is indeed the granddaughter of Richard I FitzAlan (the above quote appears to misstate her as Richard FitzAlan's great-great-granddaughter, but otherwise seems accurate so far...)
http://fabpedigree.com/s059/f082795.htm

Tracing forward from the Exilarchs, I found Pagaon Ebriaci di Pisa, who the site does show descended from Davidic kings of Israel. This is a pretty good site, parentage in dispute is always marked by a "possible" or "probable" notation - no such notation is included in the parentage of this Pagaon of Pisa.
http://fabpedigree.com/s052/f072525.htm

Pagaon's great great grandson is Comita III of Sardinia -
http://fabpedigree.com/s042/f502266.htm

Whose grandson is Manfred III del Vasto -
http://fabpedigree.com/s060/f375566.htm

Whose granddaughter Alisona de Saluzza sure enough marries Richard I FitzAlan.
http://fabpedigree.com/s065/f093891.htm

What does this have to do with the Stewarts? The first "Stewart", or High Stewart of Scotland, was Walter FitzAlan, son of Alan FitzFlaald.
http://fabpedigree.com/s028/f700321.htm

The intersecting of the FitzAlan line with that leading back to the Exilarchs of Israel happens over a century after Walter FitzAlan was made the first High Stewart (Richard FitzAlan was his great-great-great grandson so far as I can figure), but Eleanor marries Roger Mortimer and thus introduces this blood into the royal House of York, from which follows king Edward IV, Henry VII etc.

Were the English kings and queens that followed aware of, or believe, this part of their pedigree which traces back to the Exilarchs of Israel? I don't see how they couldn't have.

(On a side note, check out Richard I FitzAlan's mother's side - you'll find Lusignan and de Vere (!). Just glancing at the Wiki article for his mother Alice de Warenne, it looks like quite a story, with illicit love, fighting over the throne and heads getting chopped off. Maybe I should be embarassed that I'm only vaguely familiar with it - I'll have to remedy that!)

...................

To end this post, maybe I should post the FitzAlan crest. What color do you think it turns out to be? Maybe blue?





http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&am...0&text2.y=0

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Sanders
post Mar 2 2009, 01:23 PM
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Regarding the above FitzAlan crest, everyone is familiar with that specific image of a lion. It is found on the royal coat of arms of England and many other places, in fact when you go looking at family crests of the elite it's hard to find one without the lion! (I exaggerate of course.) The lion is central to the myths of both Samson and Heracles (the later a reflection of the former), and was the sign of the tribe of Judah.

But, and I think I've mentioned this once before, the lion is an African animal! It's a no-brainer to figure out why some of these families whose ancestors came from the Black Sea region, Thracia and the steppes of southern russia used boars and wolves on their crests ... but the lion is a "different animal". You can take the view that the lion used as a symbol of royalty came from the Israelites, or that it came from where they got it, Egypt. (I'd guess both.) This all harks back to my theory of the Gogi and Egyptian branches and the importance from the standpoint of the Gogi (which was far more dominant in Europe) of preserving and linking up with blood from the Egyptian lines. That included the Davidic line, and explains why the lion, an African animal, became a symbol of royalty in Europe and England. That is of course just me speculating, but look at the FitzAlan branch and remember that the family married into Davidic blood (Richard I FitzAlan + Alisona de Saluzza) early in its history.

What is REALLY interesting about this, is that the Bruce crest carries the same lion. One could imagine that the Bruce clan adopted the lion because they were the kings of Scotland, but the French line of the family (Brusse) preceded them and carry an even larger single lion (like FitzAlan) on their crest. This could be for any number of reasons, there was at least one Merovingian I know of named Samson ... but it cannot be ignored that the crucial marraige along the Brusse line was that of Rognvald to Arlogia of Russia, who traces back to the Byzantine Emperor Rangabe and Armenian and Khazar royalty. And if THAT's where it came from, did it derive from the Jewish Khazars, or from Armenia, which I have pointed out was the buffer zone between the Gogi and Egyptian branches during the Greek period. ???? Food for thought. (I for one find this SOooo interesting.)
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Sanders
post Mar 2 2009, 04:29 PM
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Here's another prominent English family who, interestingly, were awarded lands and title from Duke William for service at the battle of Hastings.

Lavien


http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=lavien

"Guarde le Roy", I assume, means guardian of the king.

Why is the Lavien family of any importance? Rachel Faucett Lavien was Alexander Hamilton's mother. Hamilton was a bastard child who took the name of his father, a Scottish laird, the original Hamiltons in Scotland were granted lands and title by king Robert the Bruce. In an earlier post I talked a bit about various islands in the Caribbean and mentioned that Hamilton was born there on the Island of Nevis.

Hamilton is a very controversial figure, he was our first Secretary of the Treasury, which he organized, and his face graces the US 10 dollar bill. He also fought to establish the First National Bank of the United States, America's first central bank, and has been accused of having been an agent for international financiers. Others contend this is reading way too much into it, he simply was trying to put the new country on a strong footing economically.

Then there's the business about "the coup". Many of the troops hadn't been paid and were planning ... um, something, something along the lines of pursuading the congress to pay their back wages, ostensibly under threat of force. This is known as the Newburgh conspiracy. Washington finally dispelled the standoff by addressing his troops, famously saying "Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country."

What's interesting about it, is that Hamilton, second in command of the continental army, egged them on - apparently hoping it might end in a coup of sorts.

John Adams on the other hand, who was president at the time, had a slightly more ominous take on it. Adams understood that Hamilton was planning a coup, at least that's how I remember it from reading David McCollough's excellent biography 'John Adams'. You'll find nothing like this on the web however, and most accounts of the Newburgh conspiracy paint Hamilton in a fairly non-manevolent light.

I want to get to the bottom of this, so I started re-reading 'John Adams'.

I haven't found the passages I'm looking for, but I just ran across how Hamilton was accused of some corruption and misappropriating of funds while in charge of the Treasury. There was also a charge of adultery, between Hamilton and the wife of James Reynolds, the guy who accused him of financial malfeasance. The book notes that the adultery charge, which Hamilton admitted to publicly, was suspected by some to be disinformation meant to provide an ulterior motive for Reynolds' fiscal accusations.

Oh, and Adams' wife, Abigail, didn't like Hamilton much.

"Oh, I have read his heart in his wicked eyes. The devil is in them."

(Will update when I get to the bottom of this coup business)
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post Mar 2 2009, 06:08 PM
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Continuing with crests:

Loeb
English and German branches, the English Loebs were Lords of the Manor in Devonshire from ancient times, the German branch supposedly first found in the Rhineland.
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/L...amily-crest.htm



The Rhineland is just west of Baden.

Rhineland Coat of Arms



The red Templar cross, the wheel, and the lion. The wheel is a significant pagan symbol with relevance to this thread as well. Ladon-Gog author 'John''s chapter, 'Who's the Wheel Dragon Line?' contains more information than I can digest, much less explain, but here's a link (it's very interesting):

http://www.tribwatch.com/wheel.htm

The other half of Kuhn and Loeb, Kuhn, is an alteration of Cohen or Kagan, which I have already mentioned. Kuhn and Loeb BTW merged with Lehman brothers many decades ago, both of which were participants in the original Federal Reserve cabal. In more recent history Lehman Bros. split again, the significant executives moving to Peter G. Peterson's Blackstone Group, which maintained close business relations with Kissinger Associates and AIG, all of whom were involved in the financing and insuring of the WTC complex. The remnant which operated under the original name of Lehman Bros. was left to the wolves recently of course. (No pun intended)

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Aldrich
Notable: Nelson Aldrich, US Senator integral to passage of the Federal Reserve Act, Aldrich and Rockefeller families interrelated by marriage.
Seated from very early times in Suffex, Surrey and Suffolk. Note the Boar.
http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=aldrich



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Peabody
Notable: George Peabody. London based American agent for US investments for the House of Rothschild, turned his company over to his partner, Junius Morgan, whose son J P Morgan became the most powerful banker in the US and was a major player in the formation of the Federal Reserve System. The Peabody Foundation was the model for the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations and the Carnegie Endowment. Note the two suns.
Granted lands and title from William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.


http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=peabody

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Holbrooke
Notable: Richard Holbrooke. CFR board of directors, Bilderberg Group, special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan in the current Obama administration, overall evil bastard. (This guy's fingers are in ALL the pies!!!)
Granted lands and title from William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
Three red Templar crosses.



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Mitchell
Notable: George Mitchell, CFR member and former director, Bilderberg steering committee, former Senator, former chaiman of Walt Disney Co. and of DLA Piper, current US envoy to the Middle East; also John Mitchell, Attorney General to Richard Nixon.
Also from Surrey; granted lands and title by William the Conqueror for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings.
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/Orig...amily-crest.htm



I should stop and say something. George Mitchell's father was a janitor and his mother was in fact Arab. While he has risen to the ranks of the elite and the Mitchell family is a distinguished family in England, George Mitchell comes from very humble beginnings. So why do I post this? There seems to be a disconnect here.

When I first became aware of the very high percentage of family names of business and political leaders whose ancestors turn out to have been granted lands and title after Hastings, I did a test - I started plugging names at random into the houseofnames search engine. I got almost none which were granted lands and title after Hastings. When I go through names listed on the Bilderberg Group steering committee, or of CIA or CFR directors, or prominent members of the Trilateral Commission or the Pilgrims Society, or Yale Skull and Bones members, or US presidents etc. etc., I get a very high percentage. The propensity of names of the elite to be descended from participants in the Norman invasion of England is, quite honestly, staggering. I welcome anyone to go to houseofnames and try it for themselves.

Obviously all the Mitchells of the world are not evil elitists who are part of a world domination scheme LoL, nor are all of the Cheneys of the world, or Paulsons or Clintons or Bush's of the world, etc. etc. The question is, is there a propensity for people of a certain heritage to rise in the ranks of politics or business? The whole meaning of this thread is that there is, and that certain forces combined in Normandy and from there conquered England a thousand years ago, forces that a mere three decades later embarked on the first Crusade to take back Jerusalem, forces allied with families in Germania which trace back to Huns and Khazars and Byzantine nobility. Why were these forces apparently allied, why did the Varangian Rus of Kiev harbor the English Royal family and intermarry with the Arpad house of Hungary?

These various lines of ancestry can be traced to some degree, and all point, ultimately, to Sumer, Egypt and the Black Sea as their source, maybe Sumer of 5 thousand years ago being the root of the tree, and Israel playing a crucial part of the story. From there one can deduce the significance of places like Khazaria, Armenia and the Caucasus, and all of the religious baggage of outer Greece (Samothrace for example), Phoenicia, and the lands of the Cathars begins to make sense in a bigger picture.

SO!!!. Is George Mitchell's father an evil bastard? No, of course not, he was a hard-working janitor. Did the exhalted heritage of the Mitchell name and their having been among the families which were awarded with title for service at the battle of Hastings have anything to do with George Mitchell's rise from rags to the ranks of the global elite? Was it just hard work?? I have no idea - but yet he is among their ranks, and his ancestry does fit the mould.
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Sanders
post Mar 2 2009, 07:02 PM
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OMG. Look above and compare the Holbrooke and Taft crests.
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