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The "religious" Problem Is This, (In a THREE SENTENCE nutshell)

tocarm
post Apr 21 2007, 10:27 AM
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I don't think the whole lot of YOU PEOPLE "get it"!

This FORUM (from which the website Administer WILL NOT >>BAN YOU<<) is here TO DISCUSS Religion and Religious Faith!

Now I got "banned" BECAUSE OF discussing RELIGION and RELIGIOUS FAITH on other subjects NOT SPECIFICALLY DEVOTED to Religion and Religious Faith.

Hence, I have STEEPED IN >>HYPOCRICY<< from all sides - from this website's Administrator who will BAN >>ME<< because of the whining complains of so called 9-11 Truth 'contributors/activists' - and from ALL OF YOU >>IRRELIGIOUS HYPOCRITES<< who will not take the time to use your GOD-GIVEN rational minds TO LOOK AT, TO EXAMINE and TO PONDER His Divine Revelation, His Divine Truths, His Divine Supernatural Miracles He makes manifest for UNEDUCATED and IGNORNANT PEOPLE across this face of this planet earth of His Creating!

God ALREADY KNOWS that entire segments of the Human Race >DON'T< want to hear what He has to say, what He has revealed, what He has commanded - and THAT is reason why He is giving Serious Consideration to BURNING UP THIS ENTIRE PLANET EARTH via His Message through His Mother as Our Lady of Akita, Japan - October 1973.

God has ALSO THREATENED the entire human race with a Divine Chastisment which may very entail the inclusion of what is termed 'The Three Days of Darkness'.

THE THREE DAYS OF DARKNESS consists of His removing His Divine Supernatural Protection over the entire Human Race via the Supernatural Power of His Holy Spirit so as to allow ALL THE DEMONS OF HELL to make themselves manifest here on the surface of our planet earth so as to allow those same DEMONS absolutely FREE REIGN to do whatever it is that they want to the sacriligeous and blasphemous members of our contemporary Human Race.

"Wanna SWAP PIT with Satan and his elemental spiritual demons? God will give all of you the chance!"

Now then - for those of you with your IRRELIGIOUS attitudes who have nothing better to do with your lives than to BELITTLE and REJECT Christ and His Divine Teachings to all of mankind -

>>>>>>>>GET THE HECK OFF THIS 'RELIGION' FORUM!<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Lest I, too, go whining and complainin' and bitchin' and moanin' to this website's Administration TO BAN THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU for a couple of weeks as well so that I can have some 'Peace and Quiet'!

- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Apr 21 2007, 10:31 AM
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Guinan
post Apr 21 2007, 10:49 AM
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In case you have difficulty reading, this forum is called:
"Religion
Discuss all forms of faith."

ALL FORMS, meaning NOT ONLY YOUR RC brand of faith.

You show total disrespect for ANY other opinion or faith than your own, do not acknowledge posts or opinions by others and TOTALLY MONOPOLIZE this "Religion" forum.

There used to be a time - before you appeared here, that we could all discuss religion, faith and the lack therof in friendship and respect for eachother. You have totally disrupted and destroyed that for us. No one finds any pleasure in this forum anymore because of your overbearing presence in it. If someone does have the audacity to start a thread here, you totally ruin it within a day or two.

You are a fundementaist, a religious zealot and not fit for human company. I can only hope that you find a better place to spew your nonsense within the not too distant future.

My previous post was the absolute LAST one to try to reach out to you, I will not continue to offer my friendship where it is not wanted.

Have a good life Tocarm - somewhere else

Guinan
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tocarm
post Apr 21 2007, 10:56 AM
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Now then....onto the DICUSSION OF RELIGION & RELIGIOUS FAITH...

Regarding "The Three Days of Darkness" - a quick read FYI:

http://www.aculink.net/~catholic/darkness.htm

http://www.tldm.org/news/darkness-11-13-98.htm

http://biblia.com/jesusbible/joel5.htm

Regarding 'The Divine Chastisement' via the Blessed Virgin Mary's August 3rd and October 13th, 1973 A.D. messages to the Japanese Carmelite nun Sr. Agnes:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/AKITA.HTM

With respect to the Spiritual Gift of Prophecy granted certain select individuals within His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church here on earth - a.k.a. 'The Church Militant', here is what one the greatest theologians of all time, St. Thomas Aquinas - 'Angelic Doctor of the Catholic Church' has to say about 'Prophecy':

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3171.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3172.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3173.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3174.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3175.htm

From the Catholic Encyclopedia - all about 'Prophecy' and 'Prophets & Prophetess':

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12477a.htm

Given the current state of our 'world', given the current state of our 'United States of America', given the current state of the minds, hearts, souls and spirits of just TOO MANY PEOPLE who laugh, mock, impugn, disregard, blasphme and CURSE Jesus Christ, His Divine Revelation, His Divine Teachings, His Divine Commands to men and WOMEN all across the face of this planet earth of His Creating & Sustaining - what do YOU THINK would be the 'Proper Divine Justice' that God Himself ought to 'meter out' on our current human race???

- tocarm
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grizz
post Apr 21 2007, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE (tocarm @ Apr 21 2007, 02:27 PM)
Now I got "banned" BECAUSE OF discussing RELIGION and RELIGIOUS FAITH on other subjects NOT SPECIFICALLY DEVOTED to Religion and Religious Faith.

You were not banned. You were suspended. And it was not for discussing religion but for seriously racist and sexist comments.

Obviously you cannot understand all of us mere mortals. dunno.gif
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tocarm
post Apr 21 2007, 11:31 AM
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Oceans Flow..

A Big "Ad Hominem" to you.

You can go somewhere else - I'm going TO DISCUSS my Religious Faith whether you like it or not.

So...WHAT ARE >>YOU<< GONNA DO ABOUT IT?

- tocarm
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grizz
post Apr 21 2007, 11:50 AM
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Did you even read my post?
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tocarm
post Apr 21 2007, 12:01 PM
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Now that I'd answered all of these RELIGIOUS BIGOTS who pass themselves off as "righteous" and "full of knowledge" with respect to "religious things" and who can only resort to AD HOMINEM quips and replies in order to 'Save Face' in front of a world-wide reading/browsing PUBLIC...I'm pressing right on HAPPILY with the discussion of MY RELIGIOUS FAITH whether "they" like it or not.

A BIG "TOUGH LUCK!" to all of them.

With a proper catechical background, references and instruction with respect to the Divine Gifts of God the Holy Spirit (THIRD Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity, The Almighty Godhead of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit) which consists of the 7 Spiritual Gifts of 1) Knowledge 2) Understanding 3) Wisdom 4) Courage/Fortitude 5) Piety 6) Reverence and 7) Awe/Fear of God as well as the manifold Charismatic Gifts such as TEACHING and HEALING and PROPHECY, etc.
I continue on with a focusing on the SPIRITUAL GIFT OF 'PROPHECY' as per Jesus THE CHRIST's - Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, The Almighty Godhead - Own "biblical" Teaching/Revelation as contained in the Gospel according to St. Matthew as contained in the Catholic Church's Own Canon of Sacred CHRISTIAN Scripture which is to be PROPERLY USED by the CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION during the DIVINE LITURGY of the CHRISTIAN SACREMENT OF THE EUCHARIST.

Jesus THE CHRIST - 2nd Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity - The Word made Flesh - God Incarnate Himself Who walked upon this same planet earth 2,000 years ago that ALL OF YOU are currently walking on is recorded by St. Matthew as saying these words:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...36;&version=31;

Thus establishing that there would be CHRISTIAN 'prophets' and that there WOULD BE CHRISITAN 'prophecies'. Period. "Tough Luck!" "Handle It!"

In the 4th century, THE HOLY SPIRIT inspired one St. Nilus TO PROPHETICALLY DESCRIBE our 20th century "world" along with a general description of the spiritual states of the MINDS, HEARTS, SOULS & SPIRITS of our 'World's' Political, Economic and Religious Leaders and the moral/spiritual state of the world's PEOPLE of our day and age. Read it. Is it or is it not correct and accurate???

'The Prophecy of St. Nilus' @
http://www.fisheaters.com/nilus.html

In his book "Aborting America", Dr. Bernard Nathanson reveals all THE LIES and DECEPTIVE MACHINATIONS that were engineered into giving WOMEN their supposed "right" to abortion. His book is in the PUBLIC DOMAIN and available at:

http://www.amazon.com/Aborting-America-Ber...n/dp/0523415389

Back to the SPIRITUAL GIFT of GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT called "Prophecy" with, at times, attending mystical manifesations of such things as VISIONS and LOCUTIONS with respect to this supposed woman's "right" to abortion.

All of you can read for yourselves THE PROPHECY given by God Incarnate Himself, JESUS, The Christ, 2nd Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity - the Almighty Godhead - with respect to His Divine Thoughts on a woman's supposed "right" to an abortion to one Nancy Fowler of Conyers, Georgia, USA back on February 13 and February 6, 1994 here:

http://www.ourlovingmother.org/Messages_Mo...vingMother.aspx

Now then, as the VISIBLE HEAD/LEADER of Christ's CHRISTIAN Church here on earth - the BISHOP OF ROME in the person of Pope John Paul II "prophesized" to the entire world in his GLOBAL Papal Encyclical letter entitled (in Latin) "Evangelium Vitae" - in English, "The Gospel of Life". At paragraph 91 all of YOU can read his words:

"91...On the eve of the Third Millenium, the challange facing us is an arduous one: only the concerted efforts of all those who believe in the value of life can prevent a setback of unforeseeable consequences for civilization." - quoting from:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/JP2EVANG.HTM

So how many of you ACTUALLY THINK that all of this murderous mayhem, all of this sacreligious blasphemy against God, against His Son, against Christ, against His Divine Relelation, against His Divine Laws, against His Ten Commandments that many of YOU as well as entire segments of HUMAN SOCIETY both here in the U.S.A., the Government of the U.S.A. as well as the nations/states and governments throughout our 'world' is simply going to go on and on and on unimpeded and unanswered/addressed by GOD HIMSELF???

What's ALL OF YOUR "Religious Opinion"? How much longer is GOD HIMSELF going to "put up with" all of the TAUNTS and JEERS and MOCKING from mere 'peep squeak' human beings here on this planet earth of His Creating & Sustaining?

Well...COM'ON ALL OF YOU 'RELIGIOUS' AND 'SPIRITUAL' EXPERTS! Give me and all of us your EXPERT 'OPINION' and INFALLIBLE 'ANSWER'!

- tocarm
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grizz
post Apr 21 2007, 12:29 PM
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It's really hard to be tolerant of someone who is so insulting.
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tocarm
post Apr 21 2007, 01:03 PM
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Ad Hominem.

Let's ADMIT THE TRUTH...all of you "contributors" to this particular Religion subject, ALL OF YOU have absolutely NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of truthful and constructive "religious discussion" whatsoever!

This venue serves only as an outlet for your ANTI-CATHOLIC RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY! >>PERIOD<<!!

Some "religions" of yours - ALL OF YOU - can't even admit that SIMPLE TRUTH!

That's all you have as your "religion", as your "spirituality". AD HOMINEM as well as SELF-DENIAL of the "truth" of yourselves.

Not one of you has taken up ANY identification or allegiance with ANY "religion" whatsoever! It most assuredly appears that your "religion" and your "creed" are nothing more than transient interests in the form of self 'entertainment' - much like being able to change the T.V. channel you want to watch "until" you LOOSE INTEREST in it! As the Lord's Apostle, St. James, so succintly writes:

"If there is any one of you who needs WISDOM, he must ASK GOD, Who gives to all freely and ungrudgingly; it WILL be given to him. But he must ask with faith, and no trace of doubt, because a person who doubts is like the waves thrown up in the sea when the wind drives. That sort of person, IN TWO MINDS, WAVERING BETWEEN GOING DIFFERENT WAYS, must not expect that the Lord will give him anything." - Epistle of St. James - James 1:5-9

Let me HELP ALL OF YOU ALONG in trying to get your MINDFUL PARTICIPATION in a discussion of religious 'faith' INSTEAD OF having to perpetualy PUT UP WITH your individual and collective ANTI-CATHOLIC BIGOTRY!

Don't know what "your" religon is? Perhaps you DON'T REALLY HAVE ONE to begin with! Well then....GO PICK ONE from the following list provided:

http://religion-cults.com/

And IF you "think" you are a 'christian' and you believe that being a 'christian' entails OPPOSING the Apostolic Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, then AT LEAST pick which one of the listed 'Christian Heresies' you subscribe to from this listing:

http://religion-cults.com/heresies/

And if you utterly lack the SPIRITUAL COURAGE to rationally defend your personal "religion" or personal "creed", then do something CONSTRUCTIVE with your time....go watch T.V....go watch A MOVIE on our DVD player...go read some stupid celebrity/fashion/gossip MAGAZINE - so as to stop CLUTTERING UP this particular subject with your psuedo-religious, quasi-spiritual GARBAGE!

- tocarm
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grizz
post Apr 21 2007, 01:24 PM
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Well, tocarm, I don't watch TV. Nor do I believe in God. Religion IMO is just fantasy, rooted in wishful thinking based on the desire that people have to live forever. Consequently, your suggestions are irrelevant to me.

But you just go ahead with your strange rants, because I find them amusing.

Also, who posted anything anti-Catholic? I have not seen such a post myself. You're using a strawman argument there.
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p.w.rapp
post Apr 22 2007, 05:11 AM
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QUOTE (Oceans Flow @ Apr 21 2007, 07:24 PM)
Well, tocarm, I don't watch TV.  Nor do I believe in God.  Religion IMO is just fantasy, rooted in wishful thinking based on the desire that people have to live forever.  Consequently, your suggestions are irrelevant to me.

But you just go ahead with your strange rants, because I find them amusing.

Also, who posted anything anti-Catholic?  I have not seen such a post myself.  You're using a strawman argument there.

I don't watch TV either and I don't believe in any of the obviousely man-made interpretations of Christianity as imposed on us by "The Church" and the Vatican.

But I am anytime open for religious or 'divine' wisdom and I have read many of tocarm's 'religious rants' on this board (I skipped many of the links, I admit)

@tocarm
I was hoping until now to find something in there, that will lead me back closer to Christ.
But honestly, after reading your last posts, I've decided to give up.

I'll remain caught in my 'self denial' and 'anti-catholic religious bigotry'.

CU on the first of "THE THREE DAYS OF DARKNESS", when "ALL THE DEMONS OF HELL will be allowed to make themselves manifest here on the surface of our planet earth..." blahblah1.gif


TOCARM you are even LESS CONVINCING than all the JEHOWA's WITNESSES I have shown the door in the past, because their diatribes were insupportable.

You have many things in common with them - i.e they don't know the difference between discussion and monolog.

I know, that from your POV this is AD HOMINEM again - but please face it as it is: what you are doing here is a total and utter waste of time.
I've read, that the spiritual focus of the Carmelite Order is contemplative prayer, so converting sb to Christianity might not have been your intention. If it was, you have done a very bad job, to put it mildly.

I have deep respect for your education and knowledge in many fields - but as I said earlier - I wont 'discuss' religion with you, especially the way it is done on this thread.

God bless you.
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tocarm
post Apr 23 2007, 06:34 PM
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'The Presumption of Naturalism'

"8...Two things are requisite for faith. First, that the things in which are of faith should be proposed to man.

"This is necessary in order that man believe any thing explicitly. The second thing requisite for faith is the assent of the believer to the things which are proposed to him...

"In Aquinas' view, therefore, neither eyewitness experience of events such as MIRACLES nor ARGUMENTS in favor of faith are sufficient to produce faith. What is also required is another cause, namely the INWARD INFLUENCE of DIVINE GRACE.
- quoting from
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2003/2003-8.html


'Naturalism'

"IV. General Considerations

"Social and political Naturalism teaches that 'the best interests of public society and civic progress require that in the constitution and government of human society nor more attention should be given to religion than if there were no religion at all, or at least no distinction should be made between TRUE and FALSE religion'
- quoting from
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10713a.htm

'Secularization'

"Secularization invades the most sensitively private arenas of ourselves, spurred on by a social order driven by the urge of POWER, PROFITS and UNIFORMITY."
- quoting from
http://www.accesstonight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/response.html

"Contemporary Dilemmas of Human Existance"

'Before I discuss some of the responses that RELIGION might make to the outsanding dilemmas of our age, I propose to offer a critique of the existential dislocation that has spread among such significant portion of humankind today. Through most of this century, the religious point of view has been defensive. It may now be the time to take the offensive, by scrunitizing closely the dominant modes of thought that lie at the base of our SPIRITUAL MALAISE.

"...If I were to coin a single expression to convey its distinctive essense, I would call it the RADICAL SECULARIZATION OF HUMAN LIFE.

"The early founders of the Scientific Revolution in the seventeenth century - such as Galileo, Boyle, Descartes and Newton - were deeply religous men, for whom the belief in the wise and benign Creator was the premise behind their investigations into lawfulness of nature. ..

"It was only a matter of time until, in the trail of the so-called Enlightenment, a wave of thinkers who overturned the dualistic thesis central to this world view in favor of the STRAIGHTFORTH MATERIALISM."
- quoting from:
http://www.accesstonight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/response.html

"Our society discourages self-awareness with a weekly cycle of working and consuming that keeps us too busy to slow down for self-reflection. Consumer capitalism's game plan prefers an unaware and vaguely dissastified populace that tries to fill the emptiness inside with shiny new products."
- quoting from:
http://www.gerzon.com/resources/unexam_life.html

"To Have or To Be?"
http://www.amazon.com/Have-Be-Erich-Fromm/dp/0826417388

"The Sane Society"
http://www.amazon.com/Sane-Society-Erich-Fromm/dp/0805014020

"Man For Himself: An Inquiry Into The Psychology Of Ethics"
http://www.amazon.com/Man-Himself-Inquiry-...s/dp/0805014039

Major Currents/Contributors to the mass & crass secularization, materialism and naturalism prevelant throughout contemporary U.S. 'society' if that is what you want to call it:

"The Unholy Ghost"
http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Ghost-Anti-Ca...e/dp/0879735295

"Behind the Lodge Door"
http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Lodge-Door-Pa...r/dp/0895554550

"The American Religion"
http://www.amazon.com/American-Religion-Em...n/dp/067167997X

"The Kingdom of the Cults"
http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Cults-Walter...n/dp/0764228218

"The Death of Christian Culture"
http://www.amazon.com/Death-Christian-Cult...r/dp/0912141107

"Christian Americanism" @
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m275...n52/ai_20852424

"Americanism: Then and Now"
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/AMERICAN.TXT

"The world struggle is not political or economic. Rather, it is religious and theological. It is either God or atheism." - U.S. General Douglas MacArthur

- tocarm

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Carl Bank
post Apr 23 2007, 07:45 PM
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@ tocarm: A fairy tale i heared in my 10 years of Kung Fu education:

Once there was a old wise master who was visited by a very
intelligent and educated professor.

They had tea together and the professor told him about what he has learned and developed
and thinks concerning nature, human being, god, religion and science.

The old master listened carefully for several hours.

After that time, the professor asked the master about the value of the statements.

the old master said: "They got no value."

The professor got angry and asked the master to explain this insulting answer.

The master replyied:

"You sit inconvenient. You think inconvenient. You speak inconvenient.
Seeing your altitude, your message got no value for me."

Tee kuo Shao Lin Kung Fu: Carl
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Sanders
post Apr 23 2007, 07:52 PM
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The value of words, or truth, like oil, is dependant on it's availability.
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tocarm
post Apr 23 2007, 08:38 PM
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With respect to the "Three Days of Darkness" prophecy, one is given a slew of information in the public domain. One either soberly considers it or not.

"And you know, too, what is still holding him back from appearing before his appointed time. Rebellion is at its work already, but in secret, and the one who is holding it back has first to be removed before the Rebel appears openly....But when the Rebel comes, Satan will set to work: there will be all kinds of miracles and a deceptive show of signs and portents, and everything evil that can deceive those who are bound for destruction because they would not grasp the love of the truth which could have saved them." - St. Paul the Apostle - 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9

"Satan replied he would need a century and more influence over those that would give themselves to him. Jesus said 'So be it.' The 20th century is the century that was given to him TO TEST THE WORLD." - quoting from:
http://www.pwhs-mfi.org/newsletter/news11/prayer_michael.htm

"The 20th Century Unveiled"
http://rense.com/general44/rek.htm

"Lucifer Is The Secret God Of Secular Society"
http://rense.com/general43/seces.htm

Case Studies of the affects/effects on the human spirit by evil spirits:
"Hostage To The Devil"
http://www.amazon.com/Hostage-Devil-Posses...s/dp/006065337X

"There will be death everywhere because of the errors committed by THE CRAZED and THE FOLLOWERS OF SATAN, who will then and only then rule the world..."
- quoting from:
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_12.htm

"Examples of slogans include: 'DEATH TO ALL THINGS LIVING...et al"
- quoting from:
http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/satanism2.asp

You can show people where there are HUGE OIL DEPOSITS - and they REFUSE to do any personal 'drilling', any personal 'refining' in order to USE IT!

- tocarm

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tocarm
post Apr 23 2007, 08:51 PM
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The accomplished Zen Master Cho-Ku sat in his house sipping tea while gazing contently upon the scenes from outside his windows.

A dishoveled, dirty, poorly dressed PEASANT FARMER came rushing into Master Cho-Ku's house sreaming, yelling and flailing his hands and arms about as he SCREAMED to Master Cho-Ku:

>>>>>> YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!! YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!! <<<<<<

The great accomplished Master Cho-Ku replied to the peasant farmer:

"You are UNGROOMED! You are UNWASHED! You are NOT PROPERLY DRESSED to come into my presence! You exhibit NO BODILY DISCIPLINE! - and you YELL TOO LOUD....now then...your UNENLIGHTENED peasant farmer....get out of here!"

The HUMILIATED peasant farmer shut his mouth and meekly left the GREAT Master Cho-Ku.

******************************************************************

The same peasant farmer REFUSED to have anything to do with Master Cho-Ku's burned corpse the next morning.

- tocarm

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tocarm
post Apr 23 2007, 09:51 PM
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Some select 'Koans' for our day and age in our "discussions" on/about RELIGION:

A Zen koan from many centuries ago:

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

A U.S. 1830's minstrel show koan:

"If a farmer cuts wood, how much can the wood pile?", or another one:

"If a thief is crooked, is a magistrate?"

A gnostic koan from the much ballyhooed 'Gospel of Thomas':

"Jesus said, 'If the body came into being on account of the spirit, that is a miracle. If the spirit came into being on account of the body, that is a miracle of miracles.
But I am amazed that SUCH WEALTH should choose to live in SUCH POVERTY!"

An Apostolic 'koan' from the Gospel according to St. Matthew:

"Let THE DEAD bury THE DEAD." from Matthew 8:22 - on-line reference:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...:22;&version=31

Let's apply some good ol' fashioned CHRISTIAN 'LECTIO DIVINA' here...

"HOW do you get THE DEAD to bury THEIR DEAD???"

Which begs the Question: "Who is REALLY 'alive' then?"

- tocarm
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tocarm
post Apr 24 2007, 12:30 AM
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A Zen Parable

Sensei Wei Tzu and The Novice

The novices entered the Temple. Sensei Wei Tzu entered brandishing his sword at his side. The novices sat fixated on Sensei Wei Tzu's every movement, every facial expression, every word from his mouth.

Sensei Wei Tzu grabbed a Temple cat, threw it up into the air and before the cat could hit the floor cut it into five pieces with his sword.

Sensei Wei Tzu then scowled at the sitting, transfixed novices "Do you UNDERSTAND the meaning of what I have just done?"

None of the novices made a motion nor spoke a word in reply.

Sensei Wei Tzu made an angry face and yelled at the group of novices: "No supper for you novices! You will return to your cells and PONDER UPON the meaning of my actions this session!"

The novices went to their cells hungry, staying up all night to ponder the meaning of Sensei Wei Tzu's sword butchering of the cat.

The novices entered the Temple. Sensei Wei Tzu entered brandishing his sword at his side. The novices sat fixated again on Sensei Wei Tzu's every movement, every facial expression, every word from his mouth.

Sensei Wei Tzu grabbed another Temple cat, threw it up into the air and before the cat could hit the floor cut it into five pieces with his sword.

Sensei Wei Tzu then scowled at the sitting, transfixed novices "Do you UNDERSTAND the meaning of what I have done?"

None of the novices made a motion nor spoke a word in reply.

Sensei Wei Tzu made an angry face and yelled at the group of novices: "No supper for you novices! You will return to your cells and PONDER UPON the meaning of my actions this session!"

The novices went to their cells hungry, staying up all night to ponder the meaning of Sensei Wei Tzu's sword butchering of the cat.

The novices entered the Temple. Sensei Wei Tzu entered brandishing this sword at his side. The novices sat fixated again on Sensei Wei Tzu's every movement, every facial expression, every word from his mouth.

Sensei Wei Tzu grabbed another Temple cat, threw it up into the air and before teh cat could hit the floor cut it into five pieces with his sword.

Sensei Wei Tzu then scowled at the sitting, transfixed novices "Do you UNDERSTAND the meaning of what I have done?"

None of the novices made a motion nor spoke a word in reply.

Sensei Wei Tzu made an angry face...and just as he was about to yell at the group of novices, the novice named Dong Hu abrupted stood up and STARED BACK at Sensei Wei Tzu for several seconds.

The novice Dong Hu took off both of his sandals, placing them both on the top of his head, and while balancing the sandals atop of his head stretched out both arms stiffly to his sides and began to slowly walk heel to toe away from the novices, away from Sensei Wei and upon exiting the Temple kept right on walking away from the Temple.

Sensei Wei Tzu then turned to the remaining novices and said:

"That novice UNDERSTANDS my actions and that novice has given THE PROPER REPLY!"

******************************************************************

There you are, people of America and from all around our world.

You have been GIVEN THE ANSWER & THE WISDOM of what you are to do!

None of you WILL LISTEN to what the Catholic Church has to tell you as all of you so much ENJOY your 'Eastern Wisdom' nowadays!

If you WILL NOT accept 'Western Wisdom' and if you DON'T put into action 'Eastern Wisdom' - what are you now going to do???

- tocarm
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p.w.rapp
post Apr 24 2007, 01:22 AM
Post #39





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Interesting read, Tocarm.

You know what my problem is?
I have chosen at the end of my youth to carefully decide on my own, which wisdom, philosophy, religion, prophecy or faith - or in one word: WHICH TRUTH is MY TRUTH!

I find TRUTH in so many philosophies, religions, prophecies... (BTW including Tocarm's posts on P4T) but there's one thing I absolutely can't stand:

When 'truth' is FORCED on me:

By trivial slogans, by threats (like Lucifer's dark days etc), by self proclaimed 'authorities'.

My BS-detector just won't let it pass.

And I have heard the 'Christian' argument before, that I'm missing "the INWARD INFLUENCE of DIVINE GRACE".

Well so be it - what can Zap do about it? dunno.gif
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tocarm
post Apr 25 2007, 07:55 PM
Post #40





Group: Active Forum Pilot
Posts: 430
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Member No.: 329



Dear Zap,

As St. Thomas Aquinas summarizes it - this Saint of the Chuch FULLY UNDERSTANDS your "plight"!

"Neither of these is a sufficient cause, since of those who SEE THE SAME MIRACLE, or HEAR THE SAME SERMON, some believe, and somd DO NOT. Hence we must assert another internal (spiritual) cause, which moves man inwardly (spiritually) to assent to matters of faith...Therefore faith, as regards the assent which is the chief act of faith, IS FROM GOD moving man inwardly by Grace." - quoting from:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2003/2003-8.html

It may help you to understand that I have found myself BEFUDDLED as to why people don't seem to 'ingest/disgest/utilize' and and all of my verbal/written 'ARGUMENTS' on any number/type of issues related to society, politics, civics, economics, finance as wel as 'Religion'.

Here are visual-photographed-scientifically analyzed "Supernatural & Divine MIRACLES':

http://www.spirithit.com/index/middle_east...holy_sepulcher/
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/video.htm
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/

http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian7.htm
http://www.zeitun-eg.org
http://biblia.com/apparition/zeitun.htm

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
http://www.therealpresence.org/lanciano.html
http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/euchmir.htm

http://www.pdtsigns.com/fatima.html
http://www.portcult.com/FAT.12.NEWSPAPER.2.HTM

From the Acts of the Apostles, we read about St. Peter's 'ARGUMENTS':

"He spoke for a long time USING MANY ARGUMENTS, and he urged them 'Save yourselves from this perverse generation!'. They were convinced by his arguments, and they accepted what he had said and were baptized." - Acts 2:40-41

It was THE GRACE OF GOD working 'spiritually' and 'interiorly' within hte LISTENERS of St. Peter and his VERBAL ARGUMENTS (per St. Thomas Aquinas)

The Spiritual Relationship between a human soul and God is a very INTIMATE one. And in any intimate relationship to become vitalized/enlived, there must be TRUST between the spiritual party/Spiritual Party involved.

Contemporary "biblical fundamentalism" and its religious parent, the "Protestant Reformation" actively works TO DISSOLVE the Coventual relationship between a human soul and God by DISPENSING WITH Christ's Own SACRAMENTS - visible signs of God bestowing HIS GRACES upon the individual soul. They LAUGH AT things like BAPTISM and CONFESSION and CONFIRMATION and THE EUCHARIST!

It is out of my personal, limited, finite and very FLAWED human spiritual CONCERN for you in/with/about your "plight" that I'm giving you the following bit of Divine Wisdom from CHRIST HIMSELF for you to ponder on as a kinda/sorta catechetical 'Lectio Divina' lesson:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...-13;&version=31

Zap...please try to understand this --- the most valuable thing in your 'spirit' is your God-given ability to use/utlize your FREE WILL. You've "freely chosen" to be YOUR OWN Judge and Teacher of spiritual/religous things - and God will not "override" your FREE WILL!

But...if you make an interior act of your FREE WILL to FREELY ASK God the Father's Spiritual Help and Counsel via the Divine Spiritual Actions and Activities of HIS OWN HOLY SPIRIT on/with/upon/about/throughout you --- well then, you've made a FREELY WILLED 'FREE CHOICE' to allow God Himself TO HELP you as well as to COME TO YOUR ASSISTANCE as well as TO BLESS YOU with His Divine Graces and Gifts!

This 'spiritual relationship/reconcilation' between YOU and GOD is a very private and very intimate sort of thing. However you might choose to make that 'great leap of faith' in turning towards the One Who sees all that is done in secret WITHIN a person's mind, heart , soul and spirit ASKING HIM for His Divine Help and His Holy Spirit to work 'within you' so as to effect CONVICTION and 'METANOIA' within you - that's all up to you.

God Himself IS 'the Judge' as to whether you've used your FREE WILL FREELY in asking Him for His Divine Assitance, Grace and Blessing.

- tocarm
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