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New Aa77 Animation Released By Faa Supports North Side

dv8
post Sep 15 2008, 03:57 PM
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Cool!! pilotfly.gif
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dMz
post Sep 15 2008, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Sep 15 2008, 02:53 PM) *
Hi Navy smile.gif

Of course, this doesn't mean they are opposition. They may be trying to educate themselves...

Well,

So they've got some upbeat music to listen to, I'll drop a quarter in the jukebox for our Navy guest. smile.gif

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/187304/villa...le_in_the_navy/
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kiwisteve
post Sep 16 2008, 03:57 AM
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Hi again. I was interested in where Aa77 was actually positioned in that animation so I had a look on Google Earth. I should have looked earlier! For the first time I realised where Reagan was.

Excuse me if I'm a bit slow...In this animation, Aa77 appears to be on final approach (albeit somewhat low) to the diagonal runway at Reagan while everyone is focussed on the Pentagon wondering WTF went bang.

You guys seem very thorough so I assume that all traffic into Reagan around that time is accounted for? I has a quick look in the Aa77 forum and couldn't find anything.

Always wondered why our fearless pilot did the big circle around the Pentagon rather than flying straight in.(??)

Directions please.

This post has been edited by kiwisteve: Sep 16 2008, 04:53 AM
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Sanders
post Sep 16 2008, 05:59 AM
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QUOTE (kiwisteve @ Sep 20 2008, 02:57 AM) *
...Always wondered why our fearless pilot did the big circle around the Pentagon rather than flying straight in.(??)


In order to hit the "catcher's mit" - or, the newly renovated section of the Pentagon where there wouldn't be any Pentagon brass ... you couldn't have the terrorists hitting the side of the building that Rummy was in, now could you? wink.gif

In all seriousness, Dick Eastman postulated a fly-over and landing at Reagan International many years ago. I have no idea if there is any real evidence out there (log of an aircraft landing there at that time), but I would think that if such a landing @ Reagan was indeed the case, that it would be carefully covered up.

dunno.gif
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paranoia
post Sep 25 2008, 03:48 AM
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on a whim tonight, i did some digging over at STK.com and found some "interesting stuff":



Proceedings of the 2002 Winter Simulation Conference
E. Yücesan, C.-H. Chen, J. L. Snowdon, and J. M. Charnes, eds.
http://www.informs-cs.org/wsc02papers/001.pdf

KEYNOTE ADDRESS
ADDRESSING THE CHALLENGES OF AEROSPACE AND DEFENSE
INITIATIVES USING SOFTWARE ANALYSIS TOOLS

Paul L. Graziani
Analytical Graphics, Inc.
40, General Warren Boulevard
Malvern, PA 19355, U.S.A.

General public awareness – Two- and threedimensional analysis tools helped investigators understand details of the September 11 terrorist attack and assess possible future countermeasures. Actual FAA radar data was used to accurately recreate the events and model the flight paths of hijacked airlines as well as the responding military aircraft. This software provided a graphical timeline of all aircraft movements to the highest levels of NORAD and US Space Command, and was used as an interactive tool for forensic examination of the associated events.

AUTHOR BIOGRAPHY
PAUL L. GRAZIANI is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Analytical Graphics, Inc. (AGI). He is one of three founders of AGI; the producer of commercially available analysis and visualization software used by more than 27,000 aerospace, defense, and intelligence professionals worldwide. Graziani started his career at General Electric Space Division in 1980, where he held a number of software and engineering roles. From 1986 to 1988, he led a significant research and development project on 3-D graphics for a large classified satellite system. In January 1989, Graziani left GE to start AGI in his living room. He and two other founders created Satellite Tool Kit (STK), the company’s flagship product. Using computer graphics to translate raw data into manageable information, STK offers a revolutionary approach to space systems analysis. Graziani served as President of AGI from 1989 to 1991, and then assumed the role of Chief Technology Officer. He has served as President and CEO from 1994 to the present.




powerpoint presentation about the WTC's and Pentagon:



(2002)
http://www.agi.com/downloads/events/usersC..._NORAD_9-11.ppt


using the STK site's search for "FAA", the above link/ppt presentation,
was also found here with the date 2004-07-07:





just in case anyone needs it - a POWERPOINT VIEWER (free):
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en


***


pretty interesting huh?

they have a forum, if anyone wants to ask some questions,
though of course,
there is no guarantee that they will or are able to respond,
but perhaps worth a try none the less?


http://www.stk.com/agiforum/
https://www.stk.com/MyAccount/index.cfm


salute.gif

This post has been edited by paranoia: Sep 25 2008, 03:56 AM
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riv
post Sep 28 2008, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Sep 23 2008, 06:48 AM) *
pretty interesting huh?

they have a forum, if anyone wants to ask some questions,
though of course,
there is no guarantee that they will or are able to respond,
but perhaps worth a try none the less?


Absolutely. We need to find more about the animation.
But I guess we're all waiting for someone else to make the first step...
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dMz
post Sep 28 2008, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (riv @ Sep 28 2008, 03:58 PM) *
But I guess we're all waiting for someone else to make the first step...

Actually riv,

Some of us already took a few early steps on this FAA release a while back. The problem is- there would appear to be some "information gatekeeping" in play (see posts 59-62 above). Personally, I'd like to see the complete FOIA .ISO files available for download- that takes much less time to "prepare" than this "throttled" "needle in a download stack" information release method.

I did notice this interesting new "release" just now though:

This file provided to Brian Stark via FOIA 2008-3195. It is an Excel sheet recording the DCA departures/arrivals for 9/11/2001

http://aal77.com/faa/FOIA%202008-3195%20(Stark).xls

If anyone would like to help, I noticed there are some new .MP3 files at the "information gate" errr.. source. I mentioned dividing up the listening work back at post #10 above:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10751917
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paranoia
post Sep 28 2008, 11:14 PM
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riv - after some further research, it seems the stk forum is not exactly the right source for further info. that forum is mostly intended for software users, so its more of a user-end/technical-problems forum. but i did find who might be able to offer some insight on the matter at hand:

10/17/2002:
http://www.agi.com/downloads/corporate/new...ew_10172002.pdf




i believe this is who put the animations together:





contact info for her:
http://www.mors.org/publications/abstracts/73rd_abs.pdf

719 554 3945
Cherie.Gott - at - northcom.mil
250 S. Peterson Blvd, Suite 420 Peterson AFB, CO 80914


***


p.s.- there is alot more animation, whats been released is only an excerpt:



since i doubt mr.farmer is ever going to release the data that goes with the animation, perhaps someone (on our side) can file their own FOIA requesting all the necessary data, or at least the entire animation.



****


ETA - 7.23.10 - some key pics are gone, and the links are now defunct... but most of the info can still be found via an internal search at AGI's site:

http://www.agi.com/search/gSearch.aspx?q=g...strict=AGISites

This post has been edited by paranoia: Jul 22 2010, 11:57 PM
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riv
post Sep 29 2008, 04:01 PM
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Seems like a person I know filed a FOIA request to NORAD.
I'll keep you updated.
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dMz
post Sep 29 2008, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Sep 16 2008, 04:59 AM) *
In order to hit the "catcher's mit" - or, the newly renovated section of the Pentagon where there wouldn't be any Pentagon brass ... you couldn't have the terrorists hitting the side of the building that Rummy was in, now could you? wink.gif

In all seriousness, Dick Eastman postulated a fly-over and landing at Reagan International many years ago. I have no idea if there is any real evidence out there (log of an aircraft landing there at that time), but I would think that if such a landing @ Reagan was indeed the case, that it would be carefully covered up.

Sanders,

We might want to look at that .XLS spreadsheet that I recently linked above. I'm wondering which "civilian aircraft" that "AA77" might have been ["spoofed" as]/called?

EDIT:
http://aal77.com/faa/FOIA%202008-3195%20(Stark).xls

EDIT2:
There are several "B" types arriving at DCA after ~09:40 EDT.

Hmmmm.... This is the most "interesting" that I found so far:

"Aircraft ID Unique FAA Index Date Departure Airport Departure Date (GMT) Departure Time (GMT) Departure Date (EDT) Departure Time (EDT) Arrival Airport Arrival Date (GMT) Arrival Time (GMT) Arrival Date (EDT) Arrival Time (EDT) User Class Aircraft Type
UAL93 196566 11-Sep-01 EWR 20010911 12:43 20010911 8:43 DCA 20010911 14:28 20010911 10:28 [EDT] Commercial B752"


EDIT3: Here is your screen capture (from my sorted version) of the above jumbled spreadsheet paste. That rather non-descript "AAL568" "Other" DCA arrival at 10:13 EDT would be my wager for "AA77" BTW...



This one might be HUGE gang...
Reason for edit: Added link
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Domenick DiMaggi...
post Sep 30 2008, 07:02 AM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 27 2008, 08:02 PM) *
Hmmmm.... This is the most "interesting" that I found so far:

"Aircraft ID Unique FAA Index Date Departure Airport Departure Date (GMT) Departure Time (GMT) Departure Date (EDT) Departure Time (EDT) Arrival Airport Arrival Date (GMT) Arrival Time (GMT) Arrival Date (EDT) Arrival Time (EDT) User Class Aircraft Type
UAL93 196566 11-Sep-01 EWR 20010911 12:43 20010911 8:43 DCA 20010911 14:28 20010911 10:28 [EDT] Commercial B752"


blink.gif

is that saying what i think it is sayin?
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dMz
post Sep 30 2008, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (Domenick DiMaggio CIT @ Sep 30 2008, 06:02 AM) *
blink.gif

is that saying what i think it is sayin?

IF the "source" can be trusted... yes1.gif

And jeebus! That imageshack server is "down" again!! Here's another upload of that screen capture:

http://www.orbitfiles.com/download/id3314169481.html
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dMz
post Sep 30 2008, 01:15 PM
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Hi "Skeptic"on.

Here's a bit about DCA's location, from post #7:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10693640

"For the DCA beacon, my Google Earth version 4.2.0205.5730 gave a location of N38.8594556 W77.0364500 (or N38deg 51' 34.04" W77deg 02' 11.22"). I think these were very close to UnderTow's numbers in the DCA DME thread, and I got the same results when setting Google Earth for deg/min/sec or fractional degrees when I verified the arcmin (1/60th degree) & arcsecond (1/3600th degree) conversions."

Coordinates of Key Locations:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=14832

Airport Identification Codes:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13342
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Sanders
post Sep 30 2008, 01:27 PM
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dMole, I just saw your post about the DCA landings.

Far out! whistle.gif

I notice also that there was a 757-200 (am I reading that right?) that landed at 9:43 ... not American Airlines, but the time is about right.
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dMz
post Sep 30 2008, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Sep 30 2008, 12:27 PM) *
dMole, I just saw your post about the DCA landings.

Far out! whistle.gif

I notice also that there was a 757-200 (am I reading that right?) that landed at 9:43 ... not American Airlines, but the time is about right.

I'll defer to the pilots and/or ATC's here, but B757-200 would be my hypothesis here.

On that AMT133 B752 09:43 EDT landing from MDW, from the airport codes page above:
"MDW Chicago Midway Airport Chicago IL"

http://www.airportcodes.us/us-airports.htm

"TZ AMT ATA Airlines/American Trans Air (USA) Amtran"

http://www.airodyssey.net/reference/airlines.html
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tnemelckram
post Sep 30 2008, 08:11 PM
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I'm glad this record of DCA arrivals after 9:30 AM 9-11-01 turned up. And not surprised:


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10748231


QUOTE
There's a couple of loose ends that intrigue me. They may have been discussed before.

. . . . . .

2. The National Ground Stop was effective at about 9:30 AM. 20 minutes later, it seems possible that other planes might still be landing at DCA to comply with it and I don't recall whether any record of such landings has ever been discussed. Could this provide further cover for shenanigans or perhaps cause further confusion of planes?
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SPreston
post Oct 1 2008, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (dMole)
QUOTE (Sanders)
dMole, I just saw your post about the DCA landings.

Far out! whistle.gif

I notice also that there was a 757-200 (am I reading that right?) that landed at 9:43 ... not American Airlines, but the time is about right.

I'll defer to the pilots and/or ATC's here, but B757-200 would be my hypothesis here.

On that AMT133 B752 09:43 EDT landing from MDW, from the airport codes page above:
"MDW Chicago Midway Airport Chicago IL"

http://www.airportcodes.us/us-airports.htm

"TZ AMT ATA Airlines/American Trans Air (USA) Amtran"

http://www.airodyssey.net/reference/airlines.html

It seems d from these press reports that Reagan was prepared for some special event from 9:30am on. Seven minutes before the explosions at the Pentagon would seem too early to have sighted the decoy aircraft circling around Reagan, considering that orders to evacuate would be generated prior to 9:30. Perhaps they were preparing the airport for the landing of your B757-200. (a decoy aircraft which needed to be quickly hidden in a hanger?)

QUOTE (Woody Box)
Reagan was not closed all day on 9/11, but the airport was hastily evacuated shortly before the Pentagon "crash".

Lindsey Kriete, 24, of Wellesley was scheduled to leave Reagan National on a 10 a.m. flight to Boston. About 9:30 a.m., all hell broke loose, Kriete said, as airport personnel began running through the terminal, telling passengers to leave quickly. By the time Kriete had rounded up her belongings and tried to calm people who were crying, all the taxis were gone and the subway had shut down.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/undera...ost_town+.shtml

The phone rang. It was my sister, on her cell phone from Reagan National Airport in D.C. She was within minutes of boarding a plane to Atlanta when U.S. airspace was shut down—and she was talking very fast:
"They're telling us to forget our bags and get out of the terminal!" she said. And then, as she got outside, she began to lose her composure. "I hear something that sounds like explosions . . . I'm afraid!"

It later became clear that the sounds she was hearing were actually coming from the Pentagon, which is near Reagan National.

http://www.uga.edu/gm/1201/FrontEdit.html

From this thread on the old Loose Change forum



On the same thread at the beginning, it had been determined that an Air West A320 aircraft had landed at Reagan at 9:39 with the tail # N644AW. (Flight 77 tail # N644AA) But it was determined through records that Air West did not use that tail # until 2003. But apparently somebody was using that tail # on 9-11-2001.

QUOTE
N644AW is Assigned
Model A320-231
Certificate Issue Date 02/10/2003
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NN...p;cmndfind.y=16

Also a good write-up on the mystery tail # on the old invision board.

QUOTE
American Airlines Flight 77:

Tail#: N644AA
Owner: Wilmington Trust Co.
Disappearing transponder signal location: Ohio, 8:56 am
Impact time: *9:38 am*, Pentagon


America West Flight 0098:

Tail#: N644AW
Owner: Wilmington Trust Co.
Departure: Ohio, 8:40 (Wheels off time)
Arrival: *9:39 am* (Wheels on time), Reagan National Airport (directly on the other side of the Pentagon)
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...?showtopic=4371

QUOTE (BoneZ)
Sorry Merc, i was doing some research of my own. I think it's very interesting that both jets have a near-identical tail number. I think it's very interesting that they are owned by the same company. I think it's very interesting that they were BOTH near the pentagon at almost EXACTLY the same time. And here's the kicker: the AA jet's transponder code was lost over Ohio and the AW jet took off from Ohio. That's just too many coincidences that you just can't pass up.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...=4371&st=30



This post has been edited by SPreston: Oct 1 2008, 08:07 AM
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dMz
post Oct 2 2008, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Sep 30 2008, 12:27 PM) *
I notice also that there was a 757-200 (am I reading that right?) that landed at 9:43 ... not American Airlines, but the time is about right.

Hi guests.
welcome.gif

OK Sanders, Dom, and SP- I just found this source:

http://www.airodyssey.net/reference/equip.html

So it doesn't "disappear," let's Fair Use archive a snippet below:
------------------
This list is sorted alphabetically by IATA code (3 characters), and also features the ICAO code (4 characters). IATA codes are mostly used on public material (tickets, timetables), while ICAO codes are mostly for professional use (flight plans, air traffic control scopes).

703 B703 Boeing 707-300
707 B707 Boeing 707/720
70F B703 Boeing 707-300 Freighter
70M B703 Boeing 707-300 Combi
717 B712 Boeing 717-200
721 B721 Boeing 727-100
722 B722 Boeing 727-200
727 B727 Boeing 727
72A B727 Boeing 727-200 Advanced
72B B721 Boeing 727-100 Combi
72C B722 Boeing 727-200 Combi
72F B727 Boeing 727 Freighter
72M B721 Boeing 727 Combi
72S B722 Boeing 727-200
72X B721 Boeing 727-100 Freighter
72Y B722 Boeing 727-200 Freighter

731 B731 Boeing 737-100
732 B732 Boeing 737-200
733 B733 Boeing 737-300
734 B734 Boeing 737-400
735 B735 Boeing 737-500
736 B736 Boeing 737-600
737 **** Boeing 737
738 B738 Boeing 737-800
739 B739 Boeing 737-900
73A B732 Boeing 737-200/200C Advanced
73C B733 Boeing 737-300
73F B731 Boeing 737 Freighter
73G B737 Boeing 737-700
73H B738 Boeing 737-800 With Winglets
73M B732 Boeing 737-200 Combi
73P B734 Boeing 737-400 Freighter
73S **** Boeing 737 Advanced
73W B737 Boeing 737-700 With Winglets
73X B732 Boeing 737-200 Freighter
73Y B733 Boeing 737-300 Freighter

741 B741 Boeing 747-100
742 B742 Boeing 747-200
743 B743 Boeing 747-300 (including -100SUD and -200SUD)
744 B744 Boeing 747-400
747 B741 Boeing 747
74C B742 Boeing 747-200 Combi
74D B743 Boeing 747-300 Combi (including -200SUD)
74F **** Boeing 747 Freighter
74E B744 Boeing 747-400 Combi
74J B744 Boeing 747-400 Domestic
74L B74S Boeing 747SP
74M B741 Boeing 747 Combi
74T B741 Boeing 747-100 Freighter
74U B743 Boeing 747-300 Freighter
74V B74R Boeing 747SR Freighter
74X B742 Boeing 747-200 Freighter
74Y B744 Boeing 747-400 Freighter

752 B752 Boeing 757-200
753 B753 Boeing 757-300
757 B752 Boeing 757
75F B752 Boeing 757-200 Freighter
75M B752 Boeing 757-200 Combi


762 B762 Boeing 767-200
763 B763 Boeing 767-300
764 B764 Boeing 767-400
767 B762 Boeing 767
76F B762 Boeing 767 Freighter
76X B762 Boeing 767-200 Freighter
76Y B763 Boeing 767-300 Freighter

772 B772 Boeing 777-200/200ER
773 B773 Boeing 777-300
777 B777 Boeing 777
77L B772 Boeing 777-200LR
77W B773 Boeing 777-300ER


EDIT: Here's a sorted, highlighted screen capture of the spreadsheet around the ''AA77" and "UA93" events- the Boeing B757-200's are green, Boeings are yellow and orange, and don't forget that "non-descript" "AAL568 at 10:13 EDT- I sure wish I knew what the FAA thought that one was...

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dMz
post Oct 2 2008, 06:41 PM
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Here's the "new FAA" DCA comma-separated data file, and it has Lat/Lon listed now. Hmmm...

http://aal77.com/faa/faadata/dcatracon.csv

Here's a 36MB "combined" .XLS file for 4 airports (DCA, ADW, IAD, and BWI):

http://aal77.com/faa/faadata/faaradar.xls

Now a word of caution here- several of the "coded" altitude cells have been "converted" to dates, and the aircraft ID aren't identified clearly in these data files. whistle.gif
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dMz
post Oct 2 2008, 07:23 PM
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Sorting by column "ACP," and IFF

Flight AMT133 (FAA index #127826) was either truncated or abbreviated as "826" in column "ACP", then here are your "826" FAA radar returns:



You'll note that 2 of the "826" radar returns are after the alleged 09:43 EDT "wheels down" for AMT133 in the "Stark" spreadsheet.

The third column looks to me like an FAA radar station identifier (integers ranging from 0 to 31). "ACP" likely could be an aircraft identifier, and its integer values range from 0 to 4095, averaging 2014 with a S.D. of 1266 which says "random" (Randiite "Retreat" ought to like the "average" here wink.gif ).

Pre-EDIT: No idea on the ALT "codes" there TF (no FAA experience for me- we likely need a civilian ATC here), but it looks like an "endian" Byte-swap or "flag" kind of thing from the data [EDIT: or "ranges" ]

EDIT: Since I haven't posted it before, EDT is GMT (or Zulu Time or UTC) - 4.00 hours:

http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbrevi...nes/na/edt.html

I added a column, and converted the GMT (Greenwich/London/Zulu) timestamps into an EDT timestamp above.

EDIT2: You will notice that the .CSV and .XLS files have no units included with the column headings. I would logically assume from my work with the RADES data that RANGE is in nautical miles (nm), "True Az" is radar azimuthal angle (in degrees), and "Lat"itude and "Lon"gitude are also in decimal degrees.

Another word of EXTREME CAUTION- the colum "DEG" appears to range from 0 to 360 (like a circle normally would iff degrees) and averaged 177 (of something) with a Standard Deviation (S.D.) of 111 (of those somethings)- fairly random. Strangely, though it appeared to be linked to the "ACP" column that I did sort by. There were also no decimal entries (like in the "True Az" column). This is very suspicious to me (in the .XLS data)- it might be "cooked data."
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