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About Passengers...? Didnt Hit Pentagon?, Then where are they?!?

voldemor
post Jul 2 2007, 05:46 PM
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The most important question according to me .... where did the passengers of the flight American 77 go? - because there was a real Boeing 757 that took of from the airport that day. If it did not hit the Pentagone, where did they go - passengers and plane ? Where are the facts or topics about passengers and plane. Thanks.

This post has been edited by johndoeX: Jul 2 2007, 06:28 PM
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dMz
post Jun 9 2008, 04:40 AM
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There are a few problems with the DNA "identification" claims, beside the obvious chain of evidence issues.

Quite simply heat (and many chemicals) de-nature proteins and nucleic acids (of which deoxyribonucleic acid is one).

"Denaturation is a major change in protein or nucleic acid structure by application of some external stress or compound for example, treatment of proteins with strong acids or bases, high concentrations of inorganic salts, organic solvents (e.g., alcohol or chloroform), or heat. If proteins in a living cell are denatured, this results in disruption of cell activity and possibly cell death. Denatured proteins can exhibit a wide range of characteristics, from loss of solubility to communal aggregation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_(biochemistry)

According to:

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/cont...full/64/24/8839
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Evidence for the Involvement of Double-Strand Breaks in Heat-Induced Cell Killing
Akihisa Takahashi1, Hideki Matsumoto4, Kosuke Nagayama1, Mutsuko Kitano1, Sayako Hirose1, Hidenori Tanaka1, Eiichiro Mori1, Nobuhiro Yamakawa2, Jun-ichi Yasumoto2, Kazue Yuki3, Ken Ohnishi1 and Takeo Ohnishi1

Departments of 1 Biology, 2 Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, and 3 Otorhinolaryngology, Nara Medical University School of Medicine, Nara, Japan; and 4 Department of Experimental Radiology and Health Physics, Division of International Social and Health Science, Faculty of Medical Science, University of Fukui, Fukui, Japan
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"The enhancement of radiosensitization by heat (4) and the existence of an inflection point in Arrhenius plots of cell killing after exposure to heat (5) may indicate that heat-induced denaturation and damage to proteins are critical in heat-induced cell killing. Heat-induced protein denaturation results in the disruption of centrosome-dependent mitosis (6) and multiple nuclear matrix-dependent functions [e.g., DNA replication, DNA transcription, mRNA processing, and DNA repair (7) ]. Another possible target involved in cell killing is cellular DNA because it has been reported that heat induces structural alterations and strand breaks in chromatin DNA. Many investigators have reported that cellular DNA strand breaks are detected in heat-treated cells using alkaline elution methods (8) , alkaline unwinding methods (9) , in situ nick translation methods (10) , and pulse-field gel electrophoresis methods (11) . However, these conventional physical methods are not sensitive enough to clarify the relationship between cell killing and DSBs after heat treatment. Hence, DNA strand break formation was considered to be just a component or part of the pathway of events leading to heat-induced cell killing. For the technical reasons noted above, it was almost impossible to show differences in the biological effects of heat- and radiation-induced DSBs (Double Strand Breaks)....."
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4. Kampinga HH, Dikomey E Hyperthermic radiosensitization: mode of action and clinical relevance. Int J Radiat Biol 2001;77:399-408.[CrossRef][Medline]
5. Dewey WC Arrhenius relationships from the molecule and cell to the clinic. Int J Hyperthermia 1994;10:457-83.[Medline]
6. Nakahata K, Miyakoda M, Suzuki K, Kodama S, Watanabe M Heat shock induces centrosomal dysfunction, and causes non-apoptotic mitotic catastrophe in human tumour cells. Int J Hyperthermia 2002;18:332-43.[CrossRef][Medline]
7. Roti Roti JL, Kampinga HH, Malyapa RS, et al Nuclear matrix as a target for hyperthermic killing of cancer cells. Cell Stress Chaperones 1998;3:245-55.[CrossRef][Medline]
8. Warters RL, Henle KJ DNA degradation in Chinese hamster ovary cells after exposure to hyperthermia. Cancer Res 1982;42:4427-32.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
9. Dikomey E Effect of hyperthermia at 42C and 45C on repair of radiation-induced DNA strand breaks in CHO cells. Int J Radiat Biol Relat Stud Phys Chem Med 1982;41:603-14.[Medline]
10. Anai H, Maehara Y, Sugimachi K In situ nick translation method reveals DNA strand scission in HeLa cells following heat treatment. Cancer Lett 1988;40:33-8.[CrossRef][Medline]
11. Wong RS, Dynlacht JR, Cedervall B, Dewey WC Analysis by pulsed-field gel electrophoresis of DNA double-strand breaks induced by heat and/or X-irradiation in bulk and replicating DNA of CHO cells. Int J Radiat Biol 1995;68:141-52.[Medline]
---------------------

The above is admitted by the following DNA analysis lab, but they later vaguely state:

"Sometimes, the nuclear DNA present in samples is destroyed by environmental conditions (e.g. heat and moisture). Because there are many more copies of mitochondrial DNA than nuclear DNA in a cell, enough mitochondrial DNA may remain for analysis, even though the nuclear DNA has been destroyed. Mitochondrial DNA analysis was critical in the identification of human remains from the World Trade Center tragedy on September 11, 2001."

http://www.hitdna.com/faq.htm

Are we to believe that heat that effectively vaporized an aluminum, steel, and titanium Boeing 757 airframe and impact that pentrated into the middle brick/mortar "C-ring" wall will leave enough mitochondrial DNA intact to conclusively identify the number of AA77 victims claimed?
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- voldemor   About Passengers...? Didnt Hit Pentagon?   Jul 2 2007, 05:46 PM
- - painter   Welcome to the forum. This is the first question ...   Jul 2 2007, 06:07 PM
|- - excontroller   QUOTE (painter @ Jul 2 2007, 05:07 PM) We...   Mar 1 2014, 04:17 PM
- - johndoeX   Didnt get a chance to read painters' reply... ...   Jul 2 2007, 06:22 PM
- - johndoeX   Matter of fact.. im pinning this topic.. thanks...   Jul 2 2007, 06:27 PM
- - Cary   What Painter said. Rob, where's the link you ...   Jul 2 2007, 06:30 PM
- - painter   QUOTE (johndoeX @ Jul 2 2007, 02:22 PM)Didnt ...   Jul 2 2007, 06:45 PM
- - drek   I was awake and watching the BBC that morning (it ...   Aug 24 2007, 08:07 PM
- - amazed!   Voldemor One possible explanation of "what h...   Aug 26 2007, 10:47 PM
- - SPreston   QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 26 2007, 09:47 PM)Vo...   Aug 27 2007, 11:02 AM
- - Carl Bank   QUOTE (Cary @ Jul 3 2007, 12:30 AM)Rob, where...   Oct 30 2007, 05:52 PM
- - JGSJW   I am new to this forum and having trouble navigati...   Apr 8 2008, 10:12 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (JGSJW @ Apr 8 2008, 10:12 PM) I am...   Apr 9 2008, 12:58 AM
|- - Sanders   QUOTE (JGSJW @ Apr 12 2008, 09:12 PM) I a...   Apr 9 2008, 04:17 PM
|- - 9/11 Justice Now   QUOTE (Sanders @ Apr 10 2008, 07:17 AM) Y...   Feb 21 2009, 02:20 PM
- - SPreston   QUOTE (JGSJW)I am new to this forum and having tro...   Apr 8 2008, 11:51 PM
- - elreb   As I had pointed out in the following thread; flig...   Apr 9 2008, 01:07 PM
- - dMole   Someone recently showed me something about Stonehe...   Jun 8 2008, 02:44 PM
|- - JFK   QUOTE (dMole @ Jun 8 2008, 02:44 PM) Has ...   Jun 8 2008, 02:57 PM
||- - dMole   QUOTE (JFK @ Jun 8 2008, 12:57 PM) Downlo...   Sep 12 2008, 03:44 PM
||- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 10 2008, 05:44 PM) Wel...   Sep 12 2008, 04:00 PM
||- - JFK   QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 12 2008, 03:44 PM) Wel...   Sep 12 2008, 10:12 PM
|- - richard cranium   QUOTE (dMole @ Jun 6 2008, 04:44 PM) Some...   Jun 8 2008, 03:51 PM
- - Ricochet   I found an interesting report from USA Today QUOTE...   Jun 8 2008, 04:19 PM
|- - amazed!   QUOTE (Ricochet @ Jun 8 2008, 04:19 PM) I...   Jan 12 2013, 03:37 PM
- - dMole   There are a few problems with the DNA "identi...   Jun 9 2008, 04:40 AM
- - dMole   OK- "johnnie-come-latelies"- FYI we...   Sep 12 2008, 08:48 PM
|- - dMole   QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 12 2008, 05:48 PM) OK-...   Dec 10 2008, 06:48 PM
- - JFK   Try this. http://www.fileshost.com/en/file/60451...   Sep 12 2008, 10:47 PM
- - dMole   Thanks bushels JFK! I really love throwing Fo...   Sep 12 2008, 11:23 PM
- - JFK   You are welcome dMole. Yes I used the Orbit downl...   Sep 12 2008, 11:48 PM
- - SPreston   QUOTE (voldemor)The most important question accord...   Oct 7 2008, 11:02 AM
- - keroseneaddict   A summary question......do any public documents ex...   Oct 23 2008, 06:52 PM
- - dMole   Well one of the GL's was kind enough to finall...   Nov 9 2008, 01:15 AM
|- - keroseneaddict   QUOTE (dMole @ Nov 9 2008, 12:15 AM) Well...   Nov 9 2008, 10:17 PM
- - dMole   In retrospect, let's add: 5. Exact role(s) o...   Nov 9 2008, 10:52 PM
- - paranoia   some related details... unaccounted TOTAL tally...   Nov 18 2008, 04:12 AM
- - paranoia   clearly this is a topic we've all presented to...   Nov 18 2008, 04:29 AM
- - Ricochet   9/11 exposed sums it up rather well. http://911exp...   Nov 18 2008, 03:22 PM
- - dMole   A bit about Dover AFB: http://www.dover.af.mil/un...   Dec 12 2008, 06:36 AM
- - dMole   Here's a "dirty little" historical s...   Dec 12 2008, 09:35 AM
- - dMole   OP Title: "About Passengers...? Didnt Hit Pen...   Dec 26 2008, 07:54 AM
- - dMole   See also the page in the Library section: Passeng...   Jan 23 2009, 10:47 AM
- - dMole   Since the sources on "passenger lists" s...   Jan 23 2009, 11:14 AM
- - Tacan   Let's see, if the studied evidence concludes t...   Apr 26 2009, 12:58 AM
|- - Aldo Marquis CIT   QUOTE (Tacan @ Apr 26 2009, 05:58 AM) So,...   Apr 27 2009, 12:55 PM
- - dMole   Just WOW! One of the self-styled "debunk...   Sep 5 2009, 11:14 PM
- - JoJo   Hello again - it's been a long time since I...   Sep 6 2009, 03:25 PM
- - amazed!   Welcome JoJo The government is quite skilled at p...   Sep 10 2009, 10:03 PM
|- - WetBlanket   QUOTE (amazed! @ Sep 9 2009, 01:03 AM...   Sep 21 2011, 04:18 AM
|- - WetBlanket   Not sure why it included the quote when i hit ...   Sep 21 2011, 04:53 AM
- - amazed!   Hi WetBlanket I have not studied the SSDI, but I ...   Sep 21 2011, 08:26 AM
- - Uneeque   Typically I would tell OCTAs I don't need to e...   Sep 30 2012, 02:55 PM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE One aspect I would challenge them on is the ...   Sep 30 2012, 06:06 PM
|- - Uneeque   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Sep 30 2012, 06:06...   Sep 30 2012, 07:02 PM
- - amazed!   Uneeque It is impossible to reason with people in...   Oct 1 2012, 10:46 AM
- - Uneeque   QUOTE (amazed! @ Oct 1 2012, 10:46 AM...   Oct 1 2012, 07:43 PM
- - amazed!   QUOTE (Uneeque @ Oct 1 2012, 07:43 PM) It...   Jan 12 2013, 03:41 PM


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