Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757, PilotsFor911Truth.org Rating Options

[TerraHertz]

SanderO it's worse than that, it must mean there was no real investigation - means the worst of all the possibilities.

Well let's call it ONE MORE proof there was no real investigation. A few examples of the many other proofs being:

* NIST keeping hidden all the photographic evidence of molten steel cascades falling from the WTC in the moments before collapse. Only recently were forced by FOI court order to release them. See:
http://everist.org/archives/conspiracy/911..._steel_fall.png
http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/topic...absolute-proof/
Of all the proofs this is my favourite, since it is so absolutely undenyable. You see it, you believe. It's a 'gut proof', no arguments, no wiggle room. There were massive amounts of thermite in the buildings, and that means...
I don't think this one gets the public exposure it deserves.

* No mention in the NIST report of the Building 7 'anomalies.' They couldn't mention B7 because it was absolutely clear B7 was demolished, with an official countdown and pre-announcement by the BBC, using explosives that had to have been placed in the days or weeks beforehand.

* All the gold stored in the WTC basement vaults being 'missing', with one last removal truck found caught in a crushed tunnel.

* The complete 'disappearance' of all aircraft parts collected at the scenes by the FBI, including the much photographed engine that landed in the NY street. Criminal avoidance of the usual precise identification of the airframes using timed-replacement parts serial numbers. This is one of the most incriminating details of the entire story, because it indicates, with virtual certainty, that the impacting aircraft were NOT the aircraft claimed in the government fable. There is no other possible reason to avoid doing this identification, which is ALWAYS done in every single other air crash investigation. More on this below.

* The saga of the 'phone calls', that could never have been. Impossible to make cell phone calls from aircraft at cruising altitude. Every electronics engineer (me included) knew this, and it has been demonstrated in actual practical tests. But the conspirators, being technically ignorant politician/business types, didn't know it. This detail, and his own guilty switching around of the details of his story by Ted Olsen, Bush's Solicitor General, husband of Barbara Olsen and the first to make public claims of receiving phone calls from those on the planes, prove high level government complicity in this scheme. Whether Barbara Olsen is still alive somewhere, or not, who knows?

* The story of the FBI agents who were on the trail of the 'hijackers' before the event, but kept being ordered by top level elements in the FBI to back off and not disturb the hijackers in any way. Can't have our gumshoes disturbing the vital patsy setup, now can we? We've got a couple of lovely profitable wars planned, and we need to justify invading, dammit.

And so on. There are many more. But back to the non-performance of the customary airframe identification. I suppose everyone here is aware of the Pentagon - Dov Zakheim - System Planning Corporation connection? Briefly, Dov was CEO of SPC, before he became financial comptroller at the Pentagon (and 2 trillion dollars of Pentagon money went missing). Now SPC's business is making remote controlled flight systems, that can be retrofitted to existing airframes. Such as, 737s, of which there are an abundant supply sitting in isolated desert graving fields. From a distance, a 737 looks a lot like a 757. One eyewitness at the Navy Annex near the Pentagon, a man with much experience of commercial airliners and the recognition of them, insists that the plane which flew close by him was *definitely* a 737, not the 757 per the government fable.

I suggest that ALL the planes which impacted were 737s, fitted with terminal guidance systems enabling the planes to accurately steer into some kind of target disignators on the precise points they were required to hit. These could have been emplaced Infra-Red homing beacons, or IR laser designated from a distance. With the WTC towers, impact with particular floors close to the location of the major central column demolition pyrotechnics was vital. With the Pentagon, impact at virtual ground level was vital, to ensure the damage was confined to a relatively small area by the pre-strenghtened wall. Also, the location impacted 'just happened' to be the records department, where information was stored such as the records of where that two trillion went, and other awkward details.

This is why there was no airframe identification from the recovered parts. Why the airframes alledged to have crashed were, according to official airframe databases, still in use for some years after 911. Why the 'hijackers' never actually got on the planes that day, why all the 'phone calls' were faked, why the autopsy reports have so many discrepancies, why the details of where the flights departed from and if all of them even existed that day, why the 'recovered flight data recorder' data is so bodgey and took so long to be released, why the government employed forum shills are so strident with their 'no planes, Pentagon missile, WTC nukes, holograms, beams from space' and all the other garbage disinformation and sidetracks...

It's ALL a desperate fight to stop people from realising that the planes which impacted, were NOT the same planes that took off with passengers.

The planes that impacted were old 737s with terminal guidance hardware installed by Dov's System Planning Corp. Flying on inertial navigation waypoint data uploaded via the transponder channel, and switching over to IR guidance on final approach. Painted up to look like the planes they were supposed to be.

Other details, like how the swaps were accomplished, whether the passengers were aboard (dead already, or alive) or whether the bodies were provided to the autopsies from elsewhere, what happened to all the aircraft parts and what planes were they REALLY... all these details will remain unclear until we have the well known perpetrators under arrest and interrogation, for Treason, mass murder, war crimes, high financial crimes, and so on.

By now it's crystal clear that this is never going to happen, given the obvious total breakdown in the rule of law in the USA, until the US people force their own Egyptian Solution.

[remo]

Powerful work. That NTSB data should prove NOT to come from 77 or anything commercial is no longer a surprise. Nor that "no comment" is the rote default response to any questions at all by authority figures.
The Invention of data is the core of this entire conspiracy. Sunder and NISTs dreadful computer model is pure invention of data. Colin Powell and Bush and Cheney as they invented WMDs and links between Saddam and Al Qaeda. The invention of reality by FBI Frields in response to clear warnings of attack pre-911[Sarshar testimony, Sibel Edmonds:"It Never Happened"]. The invention of psychiatric fog to determine Constitutional Habeus Corpus rights for dissident Primary Source CIA asset Susan Lindauer as "Justice" tried to forcibly inject her with HALDOL. Military spokespeople, straight faced, neither confirming nor denying the presence of E4B over Pentagon as it lazily floated away in clear, unrestricted CNN footage.
The entire commission theory is invention. a construct built around Torture and Phillip Zelikow., later shot through with holes like the comic book that followed it. A comic. If it wasn't so psychotic. so frenzied, it would be clever.

[aerohead]

Rob i just got a chance to view "Intercepted", very good
work brother. Big Cudo's for everyone that worked on it.

After chewing on this IRS data issue (lack thereof that is)
it dawned on me that we have another problem.......a BIG one,
if i understand my systems correctly. I am not an avionics genius,
but i get by.

Dont know if this has been covered or considered yet, and i apologize if it has, but
without the IRS system aligned properly...........many other systems wont
work either.

Systems like the Autopilot/Flight Director, EADI, EHSI, Yaw Damper, Thrust Management,
and im sure there is more that i cant remember right now. These systems only come
alive when the IRS is aligned.

Is the plane still "flyable" without these ? Yes but compromised. And not by amateurs using
standby instruments at over max operating speeds and hitting targets with
fighter jet accuracy. And this scenario would not be possible by even the most seasoned
veteran of the planes. No way, in my mind.

Could you imagine flying a 757/767 at high speed with NO YAW DAMPER ?
Id give an amateur about 15 seconds before he snapped the vertical stab off
or sent the plane into a flat spin or out of control dutch roll .


(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wall.gif)


Have a good weekend all.

[rob balsamo]

Rob i just got a chance to view "Intercepted", very good
work brother. Big Cudo's for everyone that worked on it.

After chewing on this IRS data issue (lack thereof that is)
it dawned on me that we have another problem.......a BIG one,
if i understand my systems correctly. I am not an avionics genius,
but i get by.

Dont know if this has been covered or considered yet, and i apologize if it has, but
without the IRS system aligned properly...........many other systems wont
work either.

Systems like the Autopilot/Flight Director, EADI, EHSI, Yaw Damper, Thrust Management,
and im sure there is more that i cant remember right now. These systems only come
alive when the IRS is aligned.

Is the plane still "flyable" without these ? Yes but compromised. And not by amateurs using
standby instruments at over max operating speeds and hitting targets with
fighter jet accuracy. And this scenario would not be possible by even the most seasoned
veteran of the planes. No way, in my mind.

Could you imagine flying a 757/767 at high speed with NO YAW DAMPER ?
Id give an amateur about 15 seconds before he snapped the vertical stab off
or sent the plane into a flat spin or out of control dutch roll .


(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wall.gif)


Have a good weekend all.

All great points. Maybe this is another reason why Ralph was telling me an emergency needs to be declared if the IRS is lost in flight... Let me make more phone calls... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Every aircraft i have ever flown disconnects YD when the AP is disconnected, so I'm pretty sure the same would happen in the 75/76, making it that much more impossible to control these aircraft at such the excessive speeds reported, if they were standard aircraft as reported. Hmmm... thanks for the tips. I'll get to work on it. See what you can find out on your end as well...

[LRon]

To you professional pilot's and investigator's this might sound rather naive,but would it be possible to find out if any FDRs went missing from Boeing (not in accidents) in the year's leading up to 911,as the data must have come from somewhere and where better than from a real 757 FDR on a similar flight path,nobody in their right mind would buzz the pentagon in a 757,but some of the data could have been gained using a smaller plane or UAV with certain parameter's turned off,rather like an overdub in music.

[Paul]

And here is another piece of evidence to add to the overwhelming list http://911blogger-bans-truth.com/news/2011-01-10/back...d-ready-use-911 it appears we seem to have evidence of foreknowledge, just amazing isnt it? And add infinitum.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

This post has been edited by Paul: Mar 5 2011, 10:07 AM

[wilddaddy]

Rob,

It is hard for me to read your analysis.

It is so good, you are so clear, your response to the "trolls" is so devastating that I find myself seething with anger that those in power chose to do absolutely nothing about this.

I hope my wife is wrong when she says in her broken english that this(911) has now become an "Inconvenient Truth," to the powers that be. Hopefully, we can all keep pushing to see to it that it will become more inconvenient to ignore it.

Thanks
Tim

[CuriousGeorge2]

This story is PUBLISHED at 911NewsCentral.com.

Link: http://pligg.911newscentral.com/story.php?...an-airlines-757

911NewsCentral.com proudly publishes the research of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, the CIT, and other quality sources.

[Bruce Sinclair]

Hello Rob:

Please excuse my ignorance, but have you already addressed the points raised in this paper?

Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the
Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon
Frank Legge, (B.Sc.(Hons.), Ph.D.) and Warren Stutt, ( B.Sc.(Hons.) Comp. Sci.)
January 2011

Also, regarding IRS alignment. On the Airbus A300 that I flew, if the IRS loses its brains regarding position, it can still be used as an AHRS, or basically a laser gyro which will provide attitude and heading reference. The autopilot, yaw damper will still work and have no impact on the IRS except in NAV mode if the IRS is being used for navigation to steer the aircraft. One would simply select the other IRS for the navigation input to the autopilot or revert to HDG mode. IRS does not require any external signals to navigate. One must simply wait patiently with the plane parked and still on the gate for the laser gyros to align and then manually enter the current gate or stand position. All other calculations of position are computed internally by measured phase shift from the original position.

If someone needs the exact details, I will pull out my Airbus manuals and look it up.

Thanks for this.

Bruce

[rob balsamo]

Hello Rob:

Please excuse my ignorance, but have you already addressed the points raised in this paper?

Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the
Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon
Frank Legge, (B.Sc.(Hons.), Ph.D.) and Warren Stutt, ( B.Sc.(Hons.) Comp. Sci.)
January 2011

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10795419

Let me know if you need more....

Also, regarding IRS alignment. On the Airbus A300 that I flew, if the IRS loses its brains regarding position,

What if the IRS never had any "brains" (alignment) to begin with?

Read the article, Click the footnotes. Learn from American Airlines 757/767 Captains, some of which have flown N644AA, along with pilots from pprune.

Thanks for your inquiry Bruce.

[aerohead]

Hello Rob:

Please excuse my ignorance, but have you already addressed the points raised in this paper?

Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the
Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon
Frank Legge, (B.Sc.(Hons.), Ph.D.) and Warren Stutt, ( B.Sc.(Hons.) Comp. Sci.)
January 2011

Also, regarding IRS alignment. On the Airbus A300 that I flew, if the IRS loses its brains regarding position, it can still be used as an AHRS, or basically a laser gyro which will provide attitude and heading reference. The autopilot, yaw damper will still work and have no impact on the IRS except in NAV mode if the IRS is being used for navigation to steer the aircraft. One would simply select the other IRS for the navigation input to the autopilot or revert to HDG mode. IRS does not require any external signals to navigate. One must simply wait patiently with the plane parked and still on the gate for the laser gyros to align and then manually enter the current gate or stand position. All other calculations of position are computed internally by measured phase shift from the original position.

I believe you are correct, except that the IRS doesnt rely on (your word was "impact on") the
autopilot and yaw damper,its the other way around, and they will not work without the IRS aligned.
And as Rob asked what happens if its never aligned ? You lose is all.
No EADI, EHSI, YD, Thrust management (Thrust Rating Panel goes dead on A300), Auto Pilot,
etc. Your basically down to the standby's- Whiskey compass and standby ADI, which is probably
why an IFE would need to be declared. And this would be why every aircraft that i know of, that has this
system, must have it operating in order to leave the ground. In fact, i cant even taxi a plane without
it, because it provides the ground speed (taxi speed) and heading info.



If someone needs the exact details, I will pull out my Airbus manuals and look it up.

Thanks for this.

Bruce

This post has been edited by aerohead: Mar 6 2011, 08:52 AM

[onesliceshort]

Is this link useful (esp for the laymen amongst us)?

http://www.biggles-software.com/software/7...igation/irs.htm

I'm not sure how old this panel is..

(IMG:http://www.biggles-software.com/software/757_tech/flight_management_navigation/images/irs_panel.jpg)

[rob balsamo]

Is this link useful (esp for the laymen amongst us)?

http://www.biggles-software.com/software/7...igation/irs.htm

I'm not sure how old this panel is..

Although not specific to American airlines, it looks good to me for a generic explanation. Nice find.

[rob balsamo]

Ok... there seems to be a bit of confusion out there (mostly being instigated by anonymous detractors, as is typical), so I spoke to Ralph again.

There is no possible way that the aircraft would have departed the gate if the Lat/Long were more than 3000 feet off at the gate and it was an American Airlines aircraft.

Ralph explained the procedure at American that when pilots align the IRS, the Present Position from the Jeppesen Gate Coordinates chart is input by the FO and it is double checked by the Captain. Pilots especially pay close attention to this procedure on a long flight (such as it was reported IAD-LAX). Ralph explained that there is no possible way, even if the FO and Captain input the wrong Lat/Long with aligned IRU's, that an American Airlines 757 could align an error/offset in flight for such a large error in such a short time as is depicted in the data. Garbage in = Garbage out. He also explained that the Capt and FO would have also noticed such a large error if not at the gate, but during taxi to the runway, and if such a large error could not be corrected prior to departure, they would have had to return to the gate.

The data did not come from an American Airlines Aircraft. It came from an aircraft with more advanced capability, if it came from an aircraft at all. There is no evidence linking the data to any specific aircraft.

Hope this helps.

[DonM]

Rob,
I've been closely following this since Tume made his first post... BIG props to him.
But there is one thing that I don't understand... where did the 3000+ feet come from? I thought that it was the distance between Gate D26 at the SW corner of the concourse and one of the middle Gates on the North side. That's not 3000 feet is it?

Did I miss something along the way?
thanks
Don

This post has been edited by DonM: Mar 7 2011, 12:44 AM

[rob balsamo]

Rob,
I've been closely following this since Tume made his first post... BIG props to him.
But there is one thing that I don't understand... where did the 3000+ feet come from? I thought that it was the distance between Gate D26 at the SW corner of the concourse and one of the middle Gates on the North side. That's not 3000 feet is it?

Did I miss something along the way?
thanks
Don

Hi Don,

The 3000 foot error is the error in the raw data. If you plot the Lat/Long directly from the data itself, it will look something like this.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pics/INS_IAD.jpg)

The above error is impossible if the data were from American Airlines 757 following American Airlines Standard Operating Procedure. If the data were from an AAL aircraft, and followed standard procedure, you should see the above plot lined up with the gates, taxiway and runway.

When the above error is shifted to match the taxiways, runway and gate area, the origin is from a gate other than D26. D26 is the gate in which AA77 is reported to have departed.

See more here.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21142

The data did not come from any American Airlines aircraft nor one described and reported as AA77, nor any aircraft which departed Gate D26.

[DonM]

OK, thanks.
I didn't realize it was that far off.

[rob balsamo]

OK, thanks.
I didn't realize it was that far off.

Yeah.. there are layers upon layers of evidence which demonstrate the data did not come from AA77. Nor does the data support an impact with the Pentagon.

[DonM]

Well, we now know that the entire FDR data set is a work of fiction. The Lat/Lon was 3000 feet off at "takeoff" yet was fairly close at Arlington with no way to align the IRS between those two points. Therefore, it was put together on a bench.

We don't have to argue anymore, about minor details like the cockpit door being open or not, or whether the FDR agrees with a NoC flight path. The FDR data is TOTALLY irrelevant.

[rob balsamo]

The FDR data is TOTALLY irrelevant.

You must be careful when using such words as the FDR data is not irrelevant at all.

Making such statements will have the layman looking the other way. For example, "Why bother to look at it when it doesn' t support the govt story?"

The FDR data is evidence and is being introduced in a court of law. The fact that the NTSB/FBI claims it comes from N644AA, yet does support an impact with the Pentagon and the fact that not only isn't there any evidence linking the data to N644AA, but actual evidence demonstrating that it could not have come from an American Airlines aircraft, is extremely relevant to the investigation.