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Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum _ Debate _ Abovetopsecret Shuts Down 911 Forum - Blames P4t

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 1 2012, 01:15 AM

[mod edit: the following split from this thread - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22129]

Yeah well a source won't be coming at all.

ATS just suspended the 9/11 Forum completely, while they figure out if they want to keep it. With a message claiming it is because of associates of P4T making a mockery of those interested in the truth.

See the message for yourselves.

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 1 2012, 01:25 AM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 01:15 AM) *
Yeah well a source won't be coming at all.

ATS just suspended the 9/11 Forum completely, while they figure out if they want to keep it. With a message claiming it is because of associates of P4T making a mockery of those interested in the truth.

See the message for yourselves.


How about you capture a screenshot of the message and post it here.....?

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 1 2012, 01:56 AM

CODE
[img]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/lc5018b383.jpg[/img]


Mod edit - ATS seemed to have removed the image from their site blaming us for the shut down, but we did save it. Attached is the original image that was posted at the ATS 9/11 Forum.

 

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 1 2012, 02:17 AM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 01:56 AM) *
CODE
[img]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/lc5018b383.jpg[/img]


There is what, 3 or 4 threads pertaining to P4T out of what... 50+ on the first page of their 911 forum index? And they shut down their forum?

Please be sure to thank them for the added publicity.

smile.gif

My oh my, what ever will their regular trolls do with their days and nights? People like GoodOlDave will be lost...lol

Posted by: Aldo Marquis CIT Aug 1 2012, 04:08 AM

That's rich. ATS interested in the truth? Yeah right. They are interested in creating as many conspiracy theories as they can while they actualy label them conspiracy theories. In fact, I believe they used to call their "9/11 conspiracies" section "9/11 conspiracy theories".

ATS is a long time operation IMO. It's no surprise that they are shutting down the 9/11 forum in an attempt to link it to P4T.

It's all theater and PFT and CIT are the targets. Everywhere. Doubt and division must be created in the minds of whatever truthseekers are left out there.

Posted by: MysticalGroove Aug 1 2012, 10:19 AM

Trolling?! Wow. I must say I'm rather shocked and very disappointed this has happened to ATS to say the least! After following the forum for over 6 years and considering how much real trolling has gone on in the past especially from the debunkers who generally resort to name calling and straw men arguments, the time and effort people have put into those threads and then to just scrub it because they think people are trolling... Gheeez! Someone really must of hit a nerve or something, it seems as if someone else has taken charge who is very much against 911 conspiracy! Now that is ignorance! Fuck the ATS.

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 1 2012, 10:25 AM

Related discussion regarding ATS -

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803766

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21411&view=findpost&p=10805955

Posted by: Domenick DiMaggio CIT Aug 1 2012, 10:27 AM

visiting ATS is like directly logging onto a CIA forum to tell them you know the truth about _______ [insert topic of your choice]. the site is full of malware, spyware, and keyloggers. it is also full of people who are paid to spend their entire day there making any argument possible to attempt to discredit the user/user's message. it is total shit. i've warned as many people as i can.....you might as well be posting on the james randi forums. in fact, most of the ATS posters are James Randi members or as their known because of their indoctrination into the Randi cult - Randi's Kids.

Posted by: jimmy Aug 1 2012, 01:28 PM

I never trusted the authenticity of ATS!! To me ATS has been 'suspect' from the very beginning! I am not so sure that ATS is not infiltrated by moles! Or that it even had been set up for moles! From the beginning, I suspected ATS to be a plant to support government lies!!

Posted by: Teardrop Aug 1 2012, 02:30 PM

Outrageous stance by ATS
The likes of goodoldave and co. have always hunted in packs, to the point of it being a total obsession with them.
I`m not talking about an interest in 9/11 discussions, I`m talking a year upon year constant daily hammering,
you can`t get 5 posts into a discussion without them belittling someone, probably causing a lot of readers to move on - tired of their drivel.
Must be paid for their dedication to the cause.

for Pilots for 9/11 Truth to be treated in this way by ATS owners must be that P4T have won a battle on ATS.


Now go on and win the war P4T thumbsup.gif

Posted by: FM258 Aug 1 2012, 02:36 PM

QUOTE (Domenick DiMaggio CIT @ Aug 1 2012, 09:27 AM) *
visiting ATS is like directly logging onto a CIA forum to tell them you know the truth about _______ [insert topic of your choice]. the site is full of malware, spyware, and keyloggers. it is also full of people who are paid to spend their entire day there making any argument possible to attempt to discredit the user/user's message. it is total shit. i've warned as many people as i can.....you might as well be posting on the james randi forums. in fact, most of the ATS posters are James Randi members or as their known because of their indoctrination into the Randi cult - Randi's Kids.



Agree Dom... let them shut it down... you cant stop an idea whose time has come.

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 1 2012, 04:16 PM

Yeah well I wonder if there is really any advantage, to either board, to perpetuate the situation, and I don't even know what the real situation IS there, from a moderator standpoint. And I might point out, neither do any of you. But ATS has not auto-censored P4T material. That's an important fact, like it or not. And they have even continued to allow P4T material despite the auto censor on ats links here. If they auto-censor P4T links as a solution it is going to gut quite a few threads, and particularly a lot of my threads on the subject there- which are sourced from here. And that would totally suck, as P4T is an essential part of 9/11 Truth, in my opinion. I have no clue what they are going to do, but they have at least opened the forum back up to be viewed ONLY...no posting allowed yet. Well, at least I can't, that's for sure. I can only speak for myself. And that's all I know.

I think both boards ought to just chill the fuck out and get back to business as usual. What about the young innocent who discover this topic somewhere and end up here or over there? The board wars may just cost us an important up and coming researcher with all the vitriol going around.

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 1 2012, 04:33 PM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 04:16 PM) *
And they have even continued to allow P4T material despite the auto censor on ats links here.


ATS mods are notorious for censorship. They constantly delete member posts, wrecking their own board and continuity for the readers, they ban without warning or explanation. ATS is perhaps the most heavily censored forum on the internet, and you're worried about a link that we filter so our members don't get inundated with spyware and malware if they were to visit the link? Really?

You do know that you can post a link to ATS on this board. We do not censor anything, and we certainly don't delete member posts as does the ATS "http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803767".

OSS had to post the 9/11 Intercepted thread 3 times before their mods stopped deleting it. Then their mods deleted nearly every other post in the thread due to 'duhbunker' trolling, off topic rants, and personal attacks, completely making a mess out of it. They closed the other for "review". It is still closed.

If you want to experience censorship in all it's glory, copy/paste the following link to your browser. This is just one of many messes their mods have made on the ATS board.

CODE
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread862461/pg1



But be sure to clear your cookies after the visit, maybe scan your HD.... and perhaps take a shower.

Posted by: FM258 Aug 1 2012, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 1 2012, 03:33 PM) *
ATS mods are notorious for censorship. They constantly delete member posts, wrecking their own board and continuity for the readers, they ban without warning or explanation. ATS is perhaps the most heavily censored forum on the internet, and you're worried about a link that we filter so our members don't get inundated with spyware and malware if they were to visit the link? Really?

You do know that you can post a link to ATS on this board. We do not censor anything, and we certainly don't delete member posts as does the ATS "http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803767".

OSS had to post the 9/11 Intercepted thread 3 times before their mods stopped deleting it. Then their mods deleted nearly every other post in the thread due to 'duhbunker' trolling, off topic rants, and personal attacks, completely making a mess out of it. They closed the other for "review". It is still closed.

If you want to experience censorship in all it's glory, visit ATS. But be sure to clear your cookies after the visit, maybe scan your HD.... and perhaps take a shower.


I stopped going to ATS years ago...the trolling was out of control, and the mods in many cases sided with the trolls.

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 1 2012, 05:12 PM

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 1 2012, 04:33 PM) *
This is just one of many messes their mods have made on the ATS board.

CODE
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread862461/pg1


Jesus, I hadn't even seen that yet. My God. Well there is no question then with the amount of moderation it took in that thread to keep posters on topic and stop the personal attacks, I'd be fucking done with it too, frankly. Who the FUCK wants to moderate that bunch of shit? I sure wouldn't, if it was me. I had already seen the film, so I really hadn't even gotten to that thread yet. After looking at that, I couldn't blame them one stinking bit for wiping out the 9/11 forum altogether. It's just become too much of a hassle, and I believe they have more problems out of it than just about any other forum. Constantly, even worse than the political madness forum, I would guess.

Holy crap, that has got to be the most heavily moderated thread I have ever seen on ATS, and I've been pretty active there since 2004, and before that even as a lurker for at least a full year. But in my opinion most of it is NOT the staff's fault. It is the users fault, for not following rules and T&C. And as to all this spyware, malware and keyloggers some are claiming- I completely disagree. I've never had to worry about any of it- I have the best protection in the business. But it would still alert me on it, and can't say I've ever been even alerted. They take those issues very seriously there.

Anyway, that's my last on the subject, period. GOD I hate this BS. Can't we all just get along?

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 1 2012, 05:24 PM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 05:12 PM) *
But in my opinion most of it is NOT the staff's fault. It is the users fault, for not following rules and T&C.


It is the staff's fault for letting it get so out of hand. Any P4T topic which is posted there, 'duhbunkers' come out of the woodwork and start personal attacks, strawman arguments, and off-topic rants. The mods do nothing... The thread stretches out to pages and pages of off-topic BS.... The mods do nothing. When this happens, people start to complain why the mods aren't doing anything.... so the mods finally make a decision and start a shredding session, which makes their forum look more of a mess.

Then they close the whole forum and somehow blame it on us? Hysterical....

911analyzer, you know http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803767 that their mods delete posts related to P4T out of their bias, and then lie about the reason of deletion.


QUOTE
And as to all this spyware, malware and keyloggers some are claiming- I completely disagree. I've never had to worry about any of it- I have the best protection in the business. But it would still alert me on it, and can't say I've ever been even alerted. They take those issues very seriously there.


I get alerts all the time. You should update your database. Try this, clear all your cookies, then visit ATS, then check your cookies. It's not so much ATS itself which have the spyware and malware, it is their walls and walls of ad's.

QUOTE
Anyway, that's my last on the subject, period. GOD I hate this BS. Can't we all just get along?


If we all got along, 9/11/2001 would have been just another day, I would have had a great time flying a trip that I picked up out of open time, and none of us would be here today.

Posted by: elreb Aug 1 2012, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 11:12 AM) *
Jesus... My God...FUCK...Holy crap, GOD...

How many times can someone say…god, fuck, shit, Jesus and holy crap?

And never have a point?

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 1 2012, 11:30 PM

QUOTE (elreb @ Aug 1 2012, 08:33 PM) *
How many times can someone say…god, fuck, shit, Jesus and holy crap?

And never have a point?


About as many times as some idiot cherry picks the bad words from the point. rolleyes.gif

What's your point? Oh, you have no point. Right. I should have known better than to expect any point at all out of YOU.

I don't usually post with such language. Leave me alone. Told you, this is done. I have no idea what they are doing. I shall refrain from using such language in the future here. Wondering if this place is more hostile than ATS. I was doing great by not posting here at all, and now I remember why. And if info needed, just asking Rob.

Posted by: LambchopBob Aug 2 2012, 08:48 AM

When Does It Become a Problem?

Some look at conspiracy theory websites as a joke. The fringe some would say. Folks that frequent these websites are there for a variety of different reasons; they believe in what they read and want to learn more, they are interested in certain topics, some see it as a hobby to "debunk" some of these conspiracy theories. Unfortunately, there are some that actually go one these sites (and other websites of a multitude of topics,) and just bash people. They judge them for what they believe. I guess you can say there are others that could be a mixture of all of the above.

What was happening over at AboveTopSecret was indeed a combination of a couple things. From my understanding, the management at ATS shut down the 9/11 Forum due to the consistent trolling and creation of "socks" created by PFT founder Robert Balsamo. Some people do actually make socks from time to time. This too can be for a variety of reasons: Banned accounts, wishing to post anonymously, or maybe you're just killing time? When does it become too much?

Mr. Balsamo has stated in the past that he enjoys making up a socks:

QUOTE
Granted, I love to register socks at ATS when i'm bored to kick up the hornets nest, ...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22129&view=findpost&p=10806074

So, "kicking up the hornets nest" is in fact trolling. So when does it become a problem? Mr. Balsamo has created many socks at ATS. Sometimes 3 or 4 socks in one thread. In fact, he has created approximately 30 socks at ATS! Here is a list of some of them.

CaptRalph
Cl1mh4224rd
Elnine
GayPilot
GovernmentLoyalist
HassleHoff
Hxtamper
IceRoadTrucker
IWatchyou
JohnDoex
Lachstockn2
Lord9
MrHerbert
OneOne
Oynstein
PrettyInPink
R_Mackey
Rearnakedchoke
RobertBalsamo1
Texasjack
TheFonz
TheGameIsup
ThePostExaminer
TiffanyInLA
Tony Soprano
Trioforcharity
TruthCon
TwoSheds
Weedwhacker
WetBlankey


Now, I will be called an anonymous troll, a shill, etc. It's okay though, I am not interested in any of that. I'm just trying to clear the air on what really happened at ATS. Your opinions on them are yours and I really don't care if some of you think they are somehow in with the government.


Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM

QUOTE (LambchopBob @ Aug 2 2012, 08:48 AM) *
When Does It Become a Problem?



Ha!

Not even half of those UserID's are mine. Some of them are though, and some you missed smile.gif. And if you read through some of the posts made by the above mentioned, they stick to topic, expose strawman arguments, and debate the analysis (although the ATS mods deleted many of them and lied about the reasons for deletion - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803767). Unlike the duhbunker trolls at ATS who have nothing more to offer than personal attacks and off-topic rhetoric in virtually every P4T thread started at ATS.

As i have stated many times before, anyone who defends our work is supposedly "Rob Balsamo" to these trolls. On one forum, so many people were accused of being one of my socks, they all used my http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html#Balsamo as their avatar. It was pretty funny to watch, the duhbunkers were going bizerk. That forum was shut down as well, but it was because I contacted the owners myself for the repeated libel going on. One duhbunker was so desperate to discredit me, he accused me of a very serious crime on their forum (think Sandusky). Yeah, that didn't last too long.

And as I have stated before, if ATS would have let me use my real name, I would, unlike any of you 'duhbunkers' that hide behind your masks. JREF denied my registration before I was even able to make a post under my real name. I was banned at ATS after perhaps 3 posts when using my real name, and all of the posts deleted.

Now, the definition of a sock is having more than 1 userID registered and active on a forum, such as John Farmer, aka, "911Files", aka "spcengineer", aka "GovernmentLoyalist", weedwhacker/proudbird is another one with multiple active socks on ATS.... the list goes on. Heck, Bill "Pinch" Paisley has perhaps 5 active socks on this forum alone. You are probably another one of his socks as he has such an unhealthy obsession with me that he uses my name in one form or another for his UserID's, one of his socks is trebor (Robert spelled backwards). One thing is for certain though, you do have an unhealthy obsession with me, "LambChopBob", to think of and make such a long list of my supposed socks. It's good to know I live rent free in your head.

So, by definition, i never really had a 'sock' at all on ATS, as i never had more than 1 UserID active at one time on their forum. Each time I was banned from ATS, I made another when I wanted to go in and bat around the duhbunkers. I also never hid my IP via proxy. Why waste the time? Only duhbunkers are so paranoid to hide their IP's.

Then you have people like "Capt Obvious" who has registered perhaps 10 or 11 socks at ATS. Throatyogurt/CameronFox/ImaPepper/Six Sigma.... Mr Herbert at JREF... the list goes on... goodolddave... hooper.. etc... For what? To argue day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year... with people who he thinks are nuts? He must really be having a rough time deciding what to do with his life since the ATS 9/11 board was closed. That was his whole purpose for living it seemed.

I suppose now that the ATS board is shut down, we will now get all their 'duhbunker' trolls. That's a good thing actually... At least now I will be able to address their attacks without having to type fast before being banned because some duhbunker troll cried to the mods instead of being able to debate me. If they follow the rules of this board, they can stick around.

Good for you "LambchopBob", at least you have more courage than the rest of your cohorts! Now all you need to do is use your real name when attacking me. Then perhaps I and others will have some respect for you and what you have to say.

Here is the bottom line....

"LambChopBob", there are perhaps 3 or 4 threads on the front page forum index of the ATS 911 Forum related to P4T, out of maybe 50+ which are mostly WTC collapse debate/threads. Do you feel that is a reason to shut down the whole forum and blame it on P4T? Especially for a forum which was supposedly under "Close Staff Scrutiny"? If the majority of the threads on their forum index were P4T related, perhaps i could see their point. But less than 6% of the front page content is related to P4T and ATS staff considered such a display as "organized trolling" and shut down the forum. Really?

Even if ALL P4T related threads were considered intentional and organized trolling (which it isn't).... How many forums do you know which will shut down when 6% of their content is considered trolling? ATS is a joke dude, they have had a stick up their ass for P4T for quite some time. Why, I do not know. Maybe it is because we don't push their UFO theories... who knows.

Basically, attacks on P4T (and libeling me personally) were allowed and supported by ATS staff for years at their 911 forum, even if it violated their own Terms And Conditions. When such attacks were confronted and successfully defended in the very few threads related to P4T, ATS staff shut down the forum and blamed it on us. Those are the facts.

"Artists use lies to tell the truth, politicians use lies to hide the truth..."

Posted by: Alan H. Aug 2 2012, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Aldo Marquis CIT @ Jul 30 2012, 06:08 AM) *
That's rich. ATS interested in the truth? Yeah right. They are interested in creating as many conspiracy theories as they can while they actualy label them conspiracy theories. In fact, I believe they used to call their "9/11 conspiracies" section "9/11 conspiracy theories".

ATS is a long time operation IMO. It's no surprise that they are shutting down the 9/11 forum in an attempt to link it to P4T.

It's all theater and PFT and CIT are the targets. Everywhere. Doubt and division must be created in the minds of whatever truthseekers are left out there.


We have to remember that ALL theories, including the "official" one, are, by definition, "conspiracy theories." Perhaps if more people knew what that term actually meant it wouldn't be so demonized. A "conspiracy" is just a plan by 2 or more people to commit a crime; and I think we all know the meaning of "theory," so any and all theories regarding 9/11 are conspiracy theories. The official one happens to be one of the most absurd ones, along with the people trying to claim that no actual planes impacted the towers. No plane hit the Pentagon, but these absurd theories about no planes hitting the towers actually does damage to the "truth movement," and accomplishes the above mentioned division & doubt.

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 2 2012, 06:06 PM

To update the topic, even though I am sick of this already, the deal is now that they are going to open back up the forum with minimum wats score requirements of 10 for thread starters, and minimum wats score requirements of 1.0 to post at all. In browsing around to get an idea of what that means, to start threads in there you are going to have to have roughly from 800 to 1200 posts, or a lot more, to get that wats score of 10+.

For just posting, a wats score of 1 is equal to maybe 80 to 150 posts or so. It varies widely, depending on poster stats. It could take some posters 200 posts to reach that score.

Additionally, there is now a ban on sight, ZERO tolerance policy for even the most minor insult, even by innuendo. Call anyone a shill, and you're gone. But call anyone a hair-brained truther? I dunno. It appears they will ban that person too, from the looks of it.

I found it interesting that the same requirement was not imposed for anyone calling another member a truther, seeing as that is typically used in combination with other derogatory words. So I guess you can call someone a truther, but you can't call someone a delusional truther?

This is all so strange. I have no idea how it will play out. But if they stick to their guns, which I believe they will, maybe at least those seeking the truth and who just want a respectful debate can be free of the insults from OS proponents. But truthers are going to have to give up the insults too. And I'm totally game. I am a very nice guy, until attacked.

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 2 2012, 06:12 PM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 2 2012, 06:06 PM) *
To update the topic, even though I am sick of this already, the deal is now that they are going to open back up the forum with minimum wats score requirements of 10 for thread starters, and minimum wats score requirements of 1.0 to post at all. In browsing around to get an idea of what that means, to start threads in there you are going to have to have roughly from 800 to 1200 posts, or a lot more, to get that wats score of 10+.

For just posting, a wats score of 1 is equal to maybe 80 to 150 posts or so. It varies widely, depending on poster stats. It could take some posters 200 posts to reach that score.

Additionally, there is now a ban on sight, ZERO tolerance policy for even the most minor insult, even by innuendo. Call anyone a shill, and you're gone. But call anyone a hair-brained truther? I dunno. It appears they will ban that person too, from the looks of it.

I found it interesting that the same requirement was not imposed for anyone calling another member a truther, seeing as that is typically used in combination with other derogatory words. So I guess you can call someone a truther, but you can't call someone a delusional truther?

This is all so strange. I have no idea how it will play out. But if they stick to their guns, which I believe they will, maybe at least those seeking the truth and who just want a respectful debate can be free of the insults from OS proponents. But truthers are going to have to give up the insults too. And I'm totally game. I am a very nice guy, until attacked.



lol... how convoluted can it get?

How about they just adhere to their Terms And Conditions?

They can't do that, because if they did, 99% of the duhbunkers would have been banned long ago from that forum. Many of them were, when ATS was a decent place for discussion. But they all came back, with multiple socks. "LambChopBob" doesn't even have the nads to use his ATS userID here.. .that should tell you something right there. But, he is more than welcome to post here, and even start a thread.

When the forum does open back up, be sure to continue to ask goodoldave for a source of his claims of the FDR serial numbers, as well as vipertech who has claimed to have seen such data attached to 911 reports. If the ATS Staff really will adhere to their promises, both of them should be banned for posting knowingly false information, in violation of ATS T&C rule 15.

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 2 2012, 06:38 PM

Well I don't know about vipertech's specific claim, that one's a little vague.

There is no vagueness though about GoodOldDave's case, no vagueness, none. He specifically posted that FDR serial number, and even said, with the intention of seeing if anyone had the resources to actually do something with it. "Let's find out..."

So I agree, either he sources that statement with further proof, or he is busted. That's an extremely huge, misleading thing to say, knowing that would cause a scramble, and to test the waters. But ATS may not see it that way. I dunno. So far here, no one has even given that serial number a second thought. And no one has answered my direct questions about what we'd do with it, even in PM. I would appreciate some kind of answers on that, and if by PM that's fine. No sense in telegraphing moves to the public.

EDIT only to remove slight typo...wow, I can edit now, yipee!

Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 2 2012, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 2 2012, 06:38 PM) *
Well I don't know about vipertech's specific claim, that one's a little vague.


This is "a little" vague to you?

"The reports from the FDRs that were recovered after 9/11, have had the serial numbers attached." - vipertech0596, ATS Forum, 7/30/2012

Source -
CODE
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread865605/pg6#pid14659072


QUOTE
And no one has answered my direct questions about what we'd do with it


Again, why are you asking us to look for something that doesn't exist? Why are you not demanding a source from those who made the claim? Oh... that's right, ATS Staff shut down the forum before you had a chance to really hammer it home.

I found this particularly hilarious though.... from their new and convoluted "rules".

"...from the despicable sensationalist equivocators who have usurped these topics in the name of gratuitous squabbling and attention-seeking chicanery. These topics have become so irreparably polluted with the flotsam of escalating one upmanship and repugnant language that no thinking person dare consider participation. "


Source -
CODE
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread867452/pg1


Who speaks like that? I know a few pompous asses from Harvard who don't even speak like that. Whoever said the above should have his picture next to the dictionary definition of "pompous ass".

Wanna know who said that?

His name is Bill, he is the CEO of ATS, and considers himself "http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/ATS_Godlike_Staff.jpg", (apparently so "God-like" he won't even use his last name)

His UserID on ATS is "SkepticOverlord", and his UserID here on this forum is "http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showuser=6951".

Of course, it appears he also doesn't have the nads to confront us.

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 3 2012, 01:38 AM

Rob, Bill's last name is no secret, nor any of the owners.

I hear you on vipertech, and yeah, I'd like to see a source on that too. But my primary beef is with GoodOldDave. I will not promise to pursue that any further, because I may not post again in the forum. It's not worth risking my long term account there over it to me. I enjoy ATS for mostly other topics, and not for the 9/11 topics. I get nothing but grief it seems either on 9/11 topics.

My approach to solve the problem was simply to end user permissions for the 9/11 forum upon over the top infractions, but not to ban the user outright. I felt that this would have the effect of curtailing the highly offensive repeat posters there, who as you say, appear to be there for one thing only: to argue for the OS. It would also allow new members to start threads after the usual 20 posts, and do away with the new stricter posting requirements.

But they chose wats score. This will not solve that specific problem of the suspect OS agents, as all those posters have plenty enough longevity there to still post and start threads. But can they be civil? Time will tell. I am looking forward to it a bit, even though I may never post in the forum again. It would seem counterproductive for the NSA Q Group to teach any kind of civility and decorum, as the objective is disruption, confusion, and divisiveness. Gonna be interesting, that's for sure.

Posted by: 911analyzer Aug 3 2012, 05:19 AM

Why a beef with GoodOldDave?

Besides the main issue of the AA77 FDR serial number claim being unsourced, I deposit here Exhibit A:

GoodOldDave-

QUOTE
C) I actually get to practice valuable debating tactics here, like how to say things, how not to say things, how to lay traps for know it alls to step into, and so on, for reasons I won't go into.


CODE
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread859605/pg4#pid14525551


So I have produced proof now of his intent to set traps, from his own words. That's just wrong. It's immoral, deceptive, and I don't understand how ATS can tolerate a poster with this specific intent. Therefore the serial number presented should be viewed with caution. I just found this now, and it lends credence to my initial suspicion about the serial # being a trap. It probably is.

9/11 research is hard enough without people like him doing this intentionally to deceive. Makes me fricken sick is what it does.

Posted by: LambchopBob Aug 3 2012, 07:54 AM

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Ha!

Not even half of those UserID's are mine. Some of them are though, and some you missed smile.gif. And if you read through some of the posts made by the above mentioned, they stick to topic, expose strawman arguments, and debate the analysis (although the ATS mods deleted many of them and lied about the reasons for deletion - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803767). Unlike the duhbunker trolls at ATS who have nothing more to offer than personal attacks and off-topic rhetoric in virtually every P4T thread started at ATS.

As i have stated many times before, anyone who defends our work is supposedly "Rob Balsamo" to these trolls. On one forum, so many people were accused of being one of my socks, they all used my http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html#Balsamo as their avatar. It was pretty funny to watch, the duhbunkers were going bizerk. That forum was shut down as well, but it was because I contacted the owners myself for the repeated libel going on. One duhbunker was so desperate to discredit me, he accused me of a very serious crime on their forum (think Sandusky). Yeah, that didn't last too long.


The point I was attempting to make, when is it too much? I know I missed many of your fake names and yes, some of them may not have been you. You speak of (in this post as well) about unhealthy obsessions (for lack of a better term) as you claim to be taking up space in my mind. To an extent that is correct. I am interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories. You are the founder of this website. I have read your work many times and have read many of your posts here and at other forums. No, I'm not a fan of yours, sorry. Is it unhealthy, no. PFT is small part of the 9/11 CT's that I read. I don't want to come across as insulting, but you folks, to me, are the Fringe of the Fringe. Not as bad as the Hologram crowd, but a little... hmmm...more "controversial" than the Controlled Demolition crowd.

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
And as I have stated before, if ATS would have let me use my real name, I would, unlike any of you 'duhbunkers' that hide behind your masks. the govt loyalist site denied my registration before I was even able to make a post under my real name. I was banned at ATS after perhaps 3 posts when using my real name, and all of the posts deleted.


I have no idea why you are not allowed to post your real name at ATS. You created your first (I believe) account there in February of 2007 using your name JohnDoeX. You were an active member there as it states your last visit was sometime today. Interesting enough, your account was banned today. I have no idea why your were not allowed in the other forum- it's of no interest to me, frankly.

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Now, the definition of a sock is having more than 1 userID registered and active on a forum, such as John Farmer, aka, "911Files", aka "spcengineer", aka "GovernmentLoyalist", weedwhacker/proudbird is another one with multiple active socks on ATS.... the list goes on. Heck, Bill "Pinch" Paisley has perhaps 5 active socks on this forum alone. You are probably another one of his socks as he has such an unhealthy obsession with me that he uses my name in one form or another for his UserID's, one of his socks is trebor (Robert spelled backwards). One thing is for certain though, you do have an unhealthy obsession with me, "LambChopBob", to think of and make such a long list of my supposed socks. It's good to know I live rent free in your head.

So, by definition, i never really had a 'sock' at all on ATS, as i never had more than 1 UserID active at one time on their forum. Each time I was banned from ATS, I made another when I wanted to go in and bat around the duhbunkers. I also never hid my IP via proxy. Why waste the time? Only duhbunkers are so paranoid to hide their IP's.


The definition depends on what "online" dictionary you use.


An account made on an internet message board, by a person who already has an account, for the purpose of posting more-or-less anonymously.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sock+puppet

in an online community, a second account created by an account-holder. This second account is kept seemingly independent of the first.
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-d...-of/sock-puppet

Sock-puppet is American slang for a stupid person, especially an unoriginal one who copies other people's ideas.
http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Sock-Puppet

There are too many to list, but I think you get the idea. What I can assure you of, is that I am not Bill Paisley. With the exception of my LinkedIn account, I have and always will remain anonymous on the internet. That is a choice I made many years ago. Many of your forum members are the same way, I trust.

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Then you have people like "Capt Obvious" who has registered perhaps 10 or 11 socks at ATS. Throatyogurt/CameronFox/ImaPepper/Six Sigma.... Mr Herbert at the govt loyalist site... the list goes on... goodolddave... hooper.. etc... For what? To argue day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year... with people who he thinks are nuts? He must really be having a rough time deciding what to do with his life since the ATS 9/11 board was closed. That was his whole purpose for living it seemed.


I'm not sure who all of those people are. They, like myself choose to remain anonymous. I respect that decision from anyone. There are plenty of whack jobs out there that take personal information and like to misuse it.


QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
I suppose now that the ATS board is shut down, we will now get all their 'duhbunker' trolls. That's a good thing actually... At least now I will be able to address their attacks without having to type fast before being banned because some duhbunker troll cried to the mods instead of being able to debate me. If they follow the rules of this board, they can stick around.


No, not for me. This will be my last post here.(but I will stop by from time to time to read interesting posts) If you are interested in contacting me, you should have access to my e-mail account. For the most part, I'm not interested in the dialog here. I joined because I wanted to point out to your forum members, your behavior at ATS and what I believe was the reasoning behind the forum closure.



QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Good for you "LambchopBob", at least you have more courage than the rest of your cohorts! Now all you need to do is use your real name when attacking me. Then perhaps I and others will have some respect for you and what you have to say.


I am not attacking you, sir. Sorry that my decision not to share with anyone my name upsets you. You see, I have a great occupation and although not famous; my works are on several media outlets throughout the United States. I am not interested in anyone making lame attempts at tarnishing me or my family's name. I am not accusing you personally, Rob, but you and I both know there are plenty of people that would enjoy it.

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Aug 2 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Here is the bottom line....

"LambChopBob", there are perhaps 3 or 4 threads on the front page forum index of the ATS 911 Forum related to P4T, out of maybe 50+ which are mostly WTC collapse debate/threads. Do you feel that is a reason to shut down the whole forum and blame it on P4T? Especially for a forum which was supposedly under "Close Staff Scrutiny"? If the majority of the threads on their forum index were P4T related, perhaps i could see their point. But less than 6% of the front page content is related to P4T and ATS staff considered such a display as "organized trolling" and shut down the forum. Really?

Even if ALL P4T related threads were considered intentional and organized trolling (which it isn't).... How many forums do you know which will shut down when 6% of their content is considered trolling? ATS is a joke dude, they have had a stick up their ass for P4T for quite some time. Why, I do not know. Maybe it is because we don't push their UFO theories... who knows.

Basically, attacks on P4T (and libeling me personally) were allowed and supported by ATS staff for years at their 911 forum, even if it violated their own Terms And Conditions. When such attacks were confronted and successfully defended in the very few threads related to P4T, ATS staff shut down the forum and blamed it on us. Those are the facts.

"Artists use lies to tell the truth, politicians use lies to hide the truth..."


I don't agree with shutting down the entire forum. But it wasn't about the amount of threads, Rob. It was about the amount of "accounts" that were getting created. You were quite relentless in the amount of accounts you created in one thread. (on more than one occasion)

But really, Rob... any publicity is good publicity. You are probably enjoying some increased traffic here, so embrace it.

Good luck.


Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 3 2012, 09:09 AM

QUOTE (LambchopBob @ Aug 3 2012, 07:54 AM) *
The point I was attempting to make, when is it too much? I know I missed many of your fake names....


Many? No, maybe 1 or 2. But you also added perhaps 20+ which are not mine.

QUOTE
No, I'm not a fan of yours, sorry.


Yet you attribute nearly anyone who defends our work over a several year period as one of my 'socks'. You are obsessed with me. It is unhealthy.



QUOTE
I have no idea why you are not allowed to post your real name at ATS. You created your first (I believe) account there in February of 2007 using your name JohnDoeX. You were an active member there as it states your last visit was sometime today. Interesting enough, your account was banned today.


Actually, that account was post banned back in late 2007. That is what ATS does. They post banned the account secretly so people still think the account is active. http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=8491042&postcount=20 Then again, you already knew that, didn't you.



QUOTE
An account made on an internet message board, by a person who already has an account, for the purpose of posting more-or-less anonymously.


Yes, and by this definition, you are a sock.


QUOTE
in an online community, a second account created by an account-holder. This second account is kept seemingly independent of the first.


This is the most common definition. More than one active account. Again, such as "spcengineer" and "GovrnmentLoyalist" at ATS, both of which belong to John Farmer... and weedwhacker/proudbird. All in direct violation of ATS T&C, the mods are well aware, they do nothing.


QUOTE
Sock-puppet is American slang for a stupid person, especially an unoriginal one who copies other people's ideas.


Doesn't even apply.

So, as you can see by your own definitions, my UserID's created are as much of a sock as you.


QUOTE
What I can assure you of, is that I am not Bill Paisley.


I'll agree with that. I personally think you are Capt Obvious/ThroatYogurt/ImAPepper/CameronFox/SixSigma... +15 other some odd socks at ATS, based on your IP and your unhealthy obsession in trying to track all of my supposed socks over several years.

QUOTE
I'm not sure who all of those people are.


You put together a list of 30+ "truther" UserID's going back to 2007, claiming they are all my socks, but you are not familiar with some of the most notorious and vile 'duhbunkers' who engaged most if not all of the UserID's you listed?

Really? You really expect people to believe that? You should get a job in comedy.


QUOTE
There are plenty of whack jobs out there that take personal information and like to misuse it.


Welcome to my life.



QUOTE
For the most part, I'm not interested in the dialog here.


Says the guy who put a long list of my alleged socks together, while quoting from this site. rolleyes.gif





QUOTE
Sorry that my decision not to share with anyone my name upsets you.


Upset me? No, I said if you shared your name when you attack me (judge me, criticize me), perhaps we may have some respect for you and what you have to say. Read it again slowly. I'm not upset in the least. If you don't have the backbone to put your name to your claims (most of which are wrong), when criticizing others who do use their real name, don't expect anyone to have any respect for you. Clearly you don't have any respect for yourself or even the userID you use at ATS, combined with perhaps being a bit on the paranoid side.

QUOTE
You see, I have a great occupation and although not famous; my works are on several media outlets throughout the United States. I am not interested in anyone making lame attempts at tarnishing me or my family's name.


Whoop-de-do.... as are mine. In fact, the narrator of my last film is the voice-over for many media outlets (CNN, MSNBC, truTV, TBS... the list goes on), sports events (NFL, NCAA, ESPN).. .etc. You're not a big shot, so try not to act like one. You are paranoid.

And I suppose you fly the Space Shuttle in your spare time as well? Please.....

It's clear, you just like to tarnish others from the safety of your anonymity... making claims which are mostly false...

Again, welcome to my life. duhbunkers attack, libel and 'tarnish' me daily all over the web. You'll get no respect here.



QUOTE
I don't agree with shutting down the entire forum.


Good, we finally agree on something.


QUOTE
But it wasn't about the amount of threads, Rob. It was about the amount of "accounts" that were getting created. You were quite relentless in the amount of accounts you created in one thread. (on more than one occasion)


Oh please... I have created perhaps 7 or 8 'socks' at ATS over perhaps a 5 year period. If the ATS staff thinks that is "organized trolling" and cannot control 3 or 4 threads out of 50 on their front page, they have no business in running a forum. Again, i never hid my IP, all hey had to do was an IP ban and that would have been the end of it. Or, better yet, why not just allow me to defend myself using my real name? Ya think?

I was constantly libeled and attacked on ATS, many times in direct violation of the ATS T&C. The mods did nothing and looked the other way. The place turned into a complete romper room of duhbunker off topic rants and personal attacks in virtually every thread (not just P4T threads). ATS mods looked the other way. ATS Staff were upset because our work was being defended successfully on the very few threads related to P4T on their forum, combined with the fact that we were http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10803863 their http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10804105 http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21115&view=findpost&p=10806082 before the ATS 'Ministry Of Truth' were able to come in and sanitize the thread/delete posts.... so they found what they thought was a good excuse to shut it down and blame it on us. It backfired... go look at their business section. Read the pages we saved from their forum before they deleted the posts. Those are the facts.

QUOTE
But really, Rob... any publicity is good publicity.


Finally, you get something right! smile.gif

So "LambchopBob", why not tell us your userID from ATS? Or, are you so paranoid that you have to double up on your anonymity? If your posts here are any indication, I'm thinking your ATS userID is probably so discredited at this point that you needed to create a new one to come here and make more false claims.

Posted by: Aldo Marquis CIT Aug 3 2012, 11:37 PM

QUOTE (LambchopBob @ Aug 3 2012, 11:54 AM) *
PFT is small part of the 9/11 CT's that I read. I don't want to come across as insulting, but you folks, to me, are the Fringe of the Fringe. Not as bad as the Hologram crowd, but a little... hmmm...more "controversial" than the Controlled Demolition crowd.



What an ignorant and pompous ass.

I guess government data that is incompatible with an impact at the pentagon is part of your 9/11 "CT"? I guess the NTSB and FBI refusal to comment is all "CT". Topography and 757 limitations... Lemme guess... "CT". Radar data that doesn't support what witnesses are corroborated in seeing... all "CT". Right?

Can you explain exactly what is "fringe conspiracy theory" about anything that PFT presents? Or is your two post rule indicative of your cowardly hit and run style?

Posted by: elreb Aug 4 2012, 12:44 AM

QUOTE (LambchopBob @ Aug 3 2012, 01:54 AM) *
I don't want to come across as insulting, but you folks, to me, are the Fringe of the Fringe. Not as bad as the Hologram crowd, but a little... hmmm...more "controversial" than the Controlled Demolition crowd.

I specialize in 7WTC and do not understand this comment.

Never published "NIST" records show different results.

Posted by: onesliceshort Aug 4 2012, 01:00 AM

QUOTE (LambchopBob @ Aug 2 2012, 01:48 PM) *
When Does It Become a Problem?

Some look at conspiracy theory websites as a joke. The fringe some would say. Folks that frequent these websites are there for a variety of different reasons; they believe in what they read and want to learn

So, "kicking up the hornets nest" is in fact trolling. So when does it become a problem? Mr. Balsamo has created many socks at ATS. Sometimes 3 or 4 socks in one thread. In fact, he has created approximately 30 socks at ATS! Here is a list of some of them.

CaptRalph
Cl1mh4224rd
Elnine
GayPilot
GovernmentLoyalist
HassleHoff
Hxtamper
IceRoadTrucker
IWatchyou
JohnDoex
Lachstockn2
Lord9
MrHerbert
OneOne
Oynstein
PrettyInPink
R_Mackey
Rearnakedchoke
RobertBalsamo1
Texasjack
TheFonz
TheGameIsup
ThePostExaminer
TiffanyInLA
Tony Soprano
Trioforcharity
TruthCon
TwoSheds
Weedwhacker
WetBlankey


Now, I will be called an anonymous troll, a shill, etc. It's okay though, I am not interested in any of that. I'm just trying to clear the air on what really happened at ATS. Your opinions on them are yours and I really don't care if some of you think they are somehow in with the government.


Yo, my nick at ATS is The PostExaminer. And I know who "wetblanky" is. It isn't Rob.
And how the fuck can Rob be accused of hiding his identity with the nick "RobBalsamo1"??

When I was posting there last week I reported every single insult (all of them) and I got banned.

And it doesn't surprise me that somebody allegedly involved with the "media" would look at evidence of mass murder by somebody other than "19 muslims with boxcutters" on 9/11 as a "joke".

Can't say I'm surprised given the fact that Throat Yogurt/Mr Herbert defends all OCT lies under the banner of "9/11 victims" while pissing on their memory.

Stay and debate the "fringe elements". "Last post here" = "These guys will eat me for breakfast"

I'm sure those obsessive weirdos at ATS are going cold turkey right now.

Man, these John Wayne wannabes.

Posted by: amazed! Aug 4 2012, 09:16 AM

Cognitive dissonance and wilful ignorance are all that drive defenders of the OCT.

Posted by: rob balsamo Sep 9 2012, 08:57 PM

I've had some email exchanges with the CEO of ATS regarding this issue.... this is his last...


From: Bill Irvine <bill@theabovenetwork.com>
To: Pilots For Truth <pilotsfortruth@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: It's real simple Bill

As has been promised, the forum is now re-opened.


This is my reply....


From: Pilots For Truth <pilotsfortruth@yahoo.com>
To: Bill Irvine <bill@theabovenetwork.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: It's real simple Bill

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully this time your staff can adhere to your T&C and purge the real trolls instead of blaming it on us...

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org

BCC:
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


Just an FYI...

Should we have any more problems with ATS blaming P4T, i'll be happy to share the full email exchange that I have had with Bill.... here, as well as bulk email a link to this thread to our 3000+ members. Then I suppose Bill and ATS will understand what it feels like to be 'trolled" by P4T. smile.gif

In short , Bill wanted to shut down their 9/11 Forum long ago... he feels their 911 Forum is a nuisance to ATS as a whole and feels that their 9/11 Forum is in no way one of their popular forums... (despite their http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/ATS_Stats.jpg) and even gave me an excel spread sheet to prove his point. But for some reason, they blamed their closure on us.... and now re-opened with stricter guidelines as compared to their other forum sections.... from what i understand.

In other words, if it were up to the owners and staff at ATS, they would rather not have a 9/11 Forum. Apparently, they would much rather discuss UFO's and other topics.... But since many of their members have complained, they re-opened the 9/11 forum section with Police-State type rules.

If anyone would like the full email exchange between Bill and myself, feel free to email me and i will forward it to you...

Posted by: onesliceshort Sep 10 2012, 11:40 AM

I tried to post there today....



pilotfly.gif

Posted by: 9/11 Justice Now Sep 11 2012, 12:53 PM

QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Aug 4 2012, 03:00 PM) *
Yo, my nick at ATS is The PostExaminer. And I know who "wetblanky" is. It isn't Rob.
And how the fuck can Rob be accused of hiding his identity with the nick "RobBalsamo1"??

When I was posting there last week I reported every single insult (all of them) and I got banned.

And it doesn't surprise me that somebody allegedly involved with the "media" would look at evidence of mass murder by somebody other than "19 muslims with boxcutters" on 9/11 as a "joke".

Can't say I'm surprised given the fact that Throat Yogurt/Mr Herbert defends all OCT lies under the banner of "9/11 victims" while pissing on their memory.

Stay and debate the "fringe elements". "Last post here" = "These guys will eat me for breakfast"

I'm sure those obsessive weirdos at ATS are going cold turkey right now.

Man, these John Wayne wannabes.


I would be careful posting this if i where you, they are probably reading this forum, and you might find your account unexpectadly banned on ATS if you are not careful.

Posted by: rob balsamo Sep 12 2012, 12:37 AM

QUOTE (9/11 Justice Now @ Sep 11 2012, 12:53 PM) *
I would be careful posting this if i where you, they are probably reading this forum, and you might find your account unexpectadly banned on ATS if you are not careful.


"They" are definitely reading this forum. In fact, the CEO of ATS is a registered member here... although he has yet to make his first post. He has read this thread... yet deletes posts at ATS of any member who links to this thread, and bans them.

ATS is not interested in Truth, they are interested in the control of information and in fact promote ignorance through deleting posts daily (they even have cute little banners to replace posts when their staff delete a member post), meanwhile they saturate anyone who reads their forum, including forum members... with walls of ads, some of which have been proven scams and flagged for spyware/malware.

For example... "http://www.bbb.org/us/article/make-money-from-home-with-google-not-so-fast-warns-bbb-13245" was one of their biggest ads for quite some time, after it was well known as a scam.

ATS is a joke... just the fact that they had to shut down their 9/11 Forum and blame it on us, when not even 6% of the content in their 911 forum relates to us... just shows how mismanaged their forum is.... and how powerful the P4T analysis can be....

I suppose this is the reason why Bill Irvine, CEO of ATS, refuses to debate us here. But he won't have much of a choice when cameras are in his face held by real aviation professionals.

Posted by: onesliceshort Sep 12 2012, 10:44 AM

QUOTE
I would be careful posting this if i where you, they are probably reading this forum, and you might find your account unexpectadly banned on ATS if you are not careful.


I'm already banned. No reason given.

I was always careful to abide by their rules and never resorted to insults.
As Rob said above, the Pilotsfor911Truth info is solid (as is CIT's) and they can't stand it. Those who run ATS and those government loyalists paid to post there 24/7 thrive on muddy water.

Must be doing something right when they do a "911blogger" on us wink.gif

Posted by: KP50 Sep 13 2012, 12:44 AM

QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Sep 13 2012, 02:44 AM) *
I'm already banned. No reason given.

I was always careful to abide by their rules and never resorted to insults.
As Rob said above, the Pilotsfor911Truth info is solid (as is CIT's) and they can't stand it. Those who run ATS and those government loyalists paid to post there 24/7 thrive on muddy water.

Must be doing something right when they do a "911blogger" on us wink.gif

Emerging from my long silence to say - spot on. The evidence has been there for a while now, it is clear and easy to understand. But it is very uncomfortable for all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons not least because 9/11 being an inside job effectively says "politics is all bollocks" and many, many people love their right or left leanings.

Posted by: SeniorTrend Sep 15 2012, 06:40 PM

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Jul 31 2012, 10:17 PM) *
There is what, 3 or 4 threads pertaining to P4T out of what... 50+ on the first page of their 911 forum index? And they shut down their forum?

Please be sure to thank them for the added publicity.

smile.gif

My oh my, what ever will their regular trolls do with their days and nights? People like GoodOlDave will be lost...lol


P4-911T keeps putting the screws to the lies, demanding real answers to absurd anomalies, excising blame, and doing so with impecable credentials they can not refute - so P4T makes the kitchen a little too hot. I have not been on ATS so I have no idea who runs it, or what their agenda might be (obviously its not the TRUTH!), and they would not know what Top Secret was if it bit them in the butt - .......and I have no intention of viewing ATS - the name already turns me off as one who has been cleared for and has handled and protected TS/SCI. Further they are not equiped to deal with the physics of aviation, nor avionics, nor RF in general...... The sad thing is that people who may be just opening their eyes to the lies arrive with a skewed view.. and therefore, are less likely to dig further, which is, I believe the intention. The exception I think might be the new person, who has an aviation background and already smelled a skunk.....

Posted by: rob balsamo Jan 9 2014, 11:33 AM

So it appears the ATS 9/11 Forum is back open. Most of it is dead... but recently I have been receiving a few emails/questions from some people debating the reported excessive speeds at ATS (and doing it pretty successfully I might add... for laymen). The thread apparently went viral on their forum and ended up on their front page. The staff (including the owner, Bill, aka "SkepticOverlord", aka "TheSkepticGuy" on this forum) came out of the woodwork to trash the thread and gang up on the OP. I read through some of the thread and, first, I gotta say.. wow.. .that site is a mess. I had to close perhaps 3 or 4 pop-up ad's just to get the freakin page to load, then when it loaded, I was bombarded with tons of animated ad's slowing the browser down. And this was on a relatively fast pc... core i3, 4gb ram... etc.... If you decide to visit ATS, be sure to clear your cookies and perhaps run a scan afterward, that site is loaded with spyware and malware.

Anyway, Bill and his cohorts get nearly everything wrong and attack the OP and other posters who source the NTSB, ERAU, etc.... never once conceding a point.

So I send an email to Bill challenging him to debate real pilots instead of bullying laymen on a forum in which he controls the debate... instead of Bill accepting or declining the challenge, he goes crying to all his members at his forum...

Members who wish to participate in subjects such as this should be aware of recent developments.

Apparently because of my contributions in this thread, Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder of "Pilots for 911 Truth," has been sending me taunting emails with vulgarities, lies, and has even gone so far as to monitor when/if I visit their website, in order to send more taunting emails to me.

This is the unfortunate tactic of aggressive/insulting indignation for anyone who dare disagree with any portion of their stated platform. It's just more of the detestable techniques introduced into the "9/11 Truth" modus operandi by Nico Haupt more than ten years ago.

A couple years ago, we were forced to place a hiatus on new threads and posts to the 9/11 forum because of extreme incivility from various people who claimed to be from a collection of "9/11 Truth" groups (including pilots). You must ask yourself about the ethics and sincerity of such groups whose default methodology is that of insults and rage directed toward those who simply disagree… and the complete lack of professionalism exhibited by the sending of taunting emails to those who should be seen as a potentially cooperative and sympathetic partner. - Bill, aka "SkepticOverlord" aka "TheSkepticGuy"


Wow, what a drama queen. laughing1.gif

Here are the emails I sent to Bill (with Bill in cc on the first, addressee name redacted) -

Hi xxxxxx,
(with Bill in cc)
I took a stroll over to the ATS forum today. I see they are all jumping on you en masse. Why am I not surprised.

Bill (the CEO of ATS) has had a stick up his ass when he last shut down his own 9/11 Forum, because he thought members of P4T were "trolling", yet, we only had maybe 3 or 4 threads relating to P4T analysis (out of 50), on the front page of their 9/11 Forum at the time. Their mods can't handle this and instead shut down their whole 9/11 Forum?

See more here....
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=22131&view=findpost&p=10806087


Bill has a specific hatred for P4T because it is clear he cannot debate the facts and data as you have seen.

Bill and his "team" have banned every single representative from P4T, from his forum.. and since you argue the topic so well.. provide sources from the NTSB... i wouldnt be surprised you may get banned next. Bill, in this regard, is his own worst enemy.


Anytime you want to actually debate the information with actual pilots, we welcome the opportunity, Bill. But clearly you prefer to control the "debate".

I especially like how he claims you are getting information from "fringe" websites when you source the NTSB, ERAU.. etc.... What exactly does Bill think his website is?

The guy is a joke...

By the way Bill... you may want to cut back on all the ad's for guest readers... Wow.. your site is a mess...you're looking desperate.

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


...and then when I saw him browsing our forum from the member list which anyone can see on the bottom...

Hi Bill,
(with P4T members in BCC)

I see you are browsing our forum at this time with your registered screename "TheSketpicGuy".

Why not engage? Don't want to debate actual pilots? Would rather have your mods jump on a layman who understands aerodynamics and reads the NTSB reports better than you or any one of your staff?

Have you yet figured out your China Air 006 and TWA 841 comparisons actually support what we have been saying? And completely destroy your theories?

C'mon Bill... if you are so confident.. why not debate real pilots? Why do you call on all your mods to gang up on a layman?
Yeah.. we know Bill....lol

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


I guess Bill thinks "stick up his ass" is too vulgar.. oh the horror! (and irony...) rolleyes.gif

Bill, again, anytime you wish to debate the topic with real pilots, your account is active here (since you have banned virtually every rep from P4T at your forum). Then again, I don't blame you for evading such a challenge, since it is clear laymen are able to destroy your arguments decisively and rather easily with actual sources from the NTSB, ERAU, Boeing.. .etc.


For those unfamiliar and who haven't read from the beginning of this thread. Bill shut down his whole 9/11 forum a few years back, blaming P4T for the shutdown, due to what he believed to be "trolling". Perhaps 3 or 4 threads out of 50 on their first page were related to P4T analysis during such time. Trolling? Really? Wow....


Posted by: onesliceshort Jan 9 2014, 12:39 PM

QUOTE
insults and rage directed toward those who simply disagree


rolleyes.gif

I know I speak for Rob, Craig, Aldo and many more when I say that the incessant, childish and at times downright nasty comments directed towards us at any sites where these alleged "skeptics" appear (when the dreaded "pilotsfor911truth" and "noc evidence" appear lol) are so commonplace that I don't even register it!

Just before I was banned at ATS, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Just one or two researchers (or people with the research at their disposal) can stand their ground there no problem against multiple "skeptics". If you look at any of the threads there, you'll see 5 or 6 off topic, insulting, troll posts to every post that actually debates the evidence.

What a crock.

Posted by: rob balsamo Jan 9 2014, 12:50 PM

QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jan 9 2014, 11:39 AM) *
What a crock.


Exactly...

I sent one last email to Bill after I made the above post...

Subject: Bill, you really should tell your people the truth...

Because we will.......
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=22131&view=findpost&p=10810558

(with P4T members in BCC)

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


Bill responds playing the victim card (as if somehow his email address is some big secret...lol) while threatening the ban hammer at his forum....

And the above post somehow inspired what looks to be an attempt at a "board war," with another email to me, this time with my email address copied to an unknown number of "P4T" members.

These tactics are sad. AboveTopSecret.com has been a sympathetic partner to various 9/11 groups over the years, but because some of our staff and members disagree with their methods and portions of their "platform," aggressive attacks and unprofessionalism is the chosen response.

I will remind all members that "Board Wars" are against our Terms and Conditions. Feel free to participate in any discussion anywhere off ATS, however, if your actions are seen as antagonizing other forum operators/members on behalf of ATS, your account here may be in jeopardy.


I would have to say, this guy is rapidly creeping up to take the "Ultimate Tool" title from "Pinch" Paisley....lol

"Sympathetic partner"? Really? No Bill, pathetic is more like it.

I have tried to speak with you civilly the last time you blamed us for shutting down your forum. You turned a blind eye and in fact told me you feel it "causes the most stress" for your staff (your words, and I have the emails to prove it). Then you went on to tell me how "unpopular" your 9/11 Forum is despite your own stats which proved otherwise (before the shut down. I am sure it is very unpopular now).

Bill, this is not about a board war... this is about a debate challenge. But clearly you decline and would rather bully laymen at your forum, albeit poorly.

And get rid of those ads! All you are doing is telling people you do not want them to re-visit. You wanna talk about "professionalism"? Your site is a mess!

Posted by: rob balsamo Jan 10 2014, 02:42 PM

Now this takes the cake... a perfect example of ATS bias completely absent of their motto, "Deny Ignorance".

I took a stroll over there to check and see if Bill is still crying due to being challenged to a debate... he had a few more whimpers here and there. Then he dried his eyes and moved the whole thread to the "Hoax" bin based on a post which states -


QUOTE (some anonymous ATS member)
Ok i had a friend find what im looking for hes a flight engineer so let me post it!
heres the link http://www.flyingtigersgroup.org/Files/Manuals/CPAVA_767_manual.pdf...
2.3 The Boeing 767 – 200ER Sample Vref Speeds (Flying Tigers)
...
7. Normal Operating Speed True Vno = 460 – 490 kts

Now notice in what i posted the VNO is 490 knots but on your vg diagram you have it at 360 knots. So your VG diagram is wrong right from the start.


First, there is so much wrong with the above quote I don't know where to begin. When I first read it, I felt it may have been written by some kid playing Microsoft Flight Simulator.

And sure enough... I click on the source link... and it says on the top/first page of the "manual" -


Edition:
FS2002 Boeing 767 – 200/300ER
Effective:
February 12, 2003
Copyright:
The Flying Tigers Group


The Flying Tigers Group is a Virtual Airline! They are sourcing a manual created by Microsoft Flight Sim pilots! (who obviously do not know the real definition of Vno)..

laughing1.gif

But wait, it gets better. The reason Bill moved the thread is because he cannot find "Vno" in the Boeing 767 Type Certificate Data Sheet... and even quotes it himself with a screenshot.



He thinks that because it says on the bottom "For other airspeed limits, see the appropriate FAA-Approved Airplane Flight Manual." that he will find "Vno" in a B767 AFM. Well, no, he won't. He will find other airspeed limitations for flaps, windshield, icing, rough air penetration.... etc. Vno is no longer in use by jet aircraft, it has been replaced with Vmo!

If Bill and his members (and his members "friend") really knew anything about aviation or had any aeronautical knowledge whatsoever... they would know Vno/Vne hasn't been used in Jets since the 1960's, and was replaced with Vmo.


NASA VGH (velocity,load factor and altitude) recorders were installed on 12 types of turboprop and turbojet aircraft during the period 1960-61. Analysis of these data showed that the operation speeds Vno were being exceeded significantly more frequently than had been experienced in operations of piston-engined transports.
Because of the structural implications of these studies, the regulatory agencies and industry dropped the use of Vne for commercial transports certified under FAR 25. In 1964 the maximum operating limit speed Vmo was introduced in FAR 25.1505; i.e., “Vmo Speeds; The maximum operating limit speed (Vmo/Mmo airpseed or Mach number, whichever is critical at that particular altitude) is a speed that may not be deliberately exceeded in any regime of flight (climb, cruise, or descent), unless a higher speed is authorized for flight test or pilot training.” Source - http://books.google.ca/books?id=ltx92YbEMWMC&pg=PA249&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false


(note again the source is not from some kids playing FS2000)



It is also apparent that Bill did not read anything from this page which was sourced for him many times, because if he did, he would perhaps take pause before placing his own foot into his mouth thinking a "Normal Operating" speed could be greater than Vd.

The dive speed [Vd] is the absolute maximum speed above which the aircraft must not fly. Typically, to achieve this speed, the aircraft must enter a dive (steep descent), as the engines cannot produce sufficient thrust to overcome aerodynamic drag in level flight. At the dive speed, excessive aircraft vibrations develop which put the aircraft structural integrity at stake. Source - http://theflyingengineer.com/tag/vdmd/


(note the source is from real pilots, not some kids playing FS2000)



Basically what happened with regard to the FS2000 "manual" is that the kids playing FS2000 used "Vno" because they saw it meant "Normal Operating Speed". They interpreted this to mean normal operations at cruise... at altitude. And in this instance, they would be correct based on True Airspeed. (somewhat). Notice they use the words "Normal Operating Speed True" in their "manual".

But their use of the term "Vno" is inaccurate.

This is where Vno is on a real Airspeed indicator. (note it is below Vne, and also note it is used for slower aircraft)


(Just a quick search I did, note the source is actually from a Flight Instructor and not some kids playing Microsoft Flight Sim)

And this is what it looks like on a Jet after the 1960's rules change described above - (note, Vno was replaced with Vmo and Vne was removed)



So, to sum up, ATS CEO Bill Irvine whose motto is "Deny Ignorance" thinks a "manual" written by some kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator takes precedent over the Boeing 767 Type Certificate Data Sheet. And to top it off, all his minions, some of perhaps the most notorious P4T haters come running as cheerleaders to support Bill.

laughing1.gif

Man... it doesn't get any better than that....

Congrats Bill, you have just taken the "Ultimate Tool" title away from http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21900&view=findpost&p=10810012.

And to many of Bill's minions who I know read this forum obsessively, don't worry, I won't be emailing Bill to correct him. I actually want him to leave it the way it is! So that any real Jet pilot reading it will know that Bill Irvine is in fact.. a tool.


Flight Training Education: 50 - 75k
Cost of Flying for a living: Two marriages, a house and 3 cars (satire, but many pilots do experience such issues when flying for a living)
Watching ATS CEO Bill Irvine place his own foot firmly into his mouth: Priceless

For everything else, there is P4T. (real analysis provided by real and verified pilots, aero engineers, and other aviation professionals)

Posted by: rob balsamo Jan 10 2014, 04:00 PM

Awww.. it looks like one of his "members" has corrected him after reading the above post. I wonder how long it will take for Bill to admit he is the polar opposite of his own motto. They should change it from "Deny Ignorance" to "Embrace Ignorance!".

laughing1.gif

And for Ben, since I know you are reading here. Anytime you wish to directly ask me your questions, feel free to sign up! And then you too will understand where you have gone wrong. Same goes for "choos".

Posted by: onesliceshort Jan 10 2014, 11:05 PM

QUOTE
The Flying Tigers Group




biggrin.gif

Posted by: EagleEye Feb 3 2014, 01:37 AM

They ended up having to close the thread, because the conversation shifted to people asking why it was placed in the hoax bin, with even the detractors rushing to the defense of the thread author in refutation of the ADMIN NOTICE inserted by the site owner, which was highly ironic.

Here's where the fun is. (enjoy)

http:// www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread990280/pg1 (remove space before www)


The thread author has since been banned for very minor T&C infraction, silencing his right to freedom of speech and the ability to share his research with likeminded people in a CONSPIRACY FORUM. It's absurd unless the forum itself functions as a type of "honey pot" who's aim it is to remove such information from the public's consumption and awareness or to keep people in the dark regarding one of the most vital issues facing the USA and the whole world in which case it's worse than absurd; it's an act of cowardice, and betrayal based on nothing more than a false assumption based and rooted, in ignorance which ATS's own motto USED to be "deny ignorance".

So instead of showcasing the research on a 9/11 Conspiracy Forum, and even applauding the efforts of the Thread Author, the thread was moved to the hoax bin under false pretenses (a "hoax" in and of itself) and the thread author himself (moi) later banned outright on the basis of a very minor T&C violation, but it was inevitable once the target was on him for having tangled with the ATS staff and ownership who piled on in the thread like a gang on a mission.

Principals.

They sure are worthy of getting banner at ATS to uphold.

Now i know better where Jesus was coming from. The sad irony being the nature of the "double-bind" that binds itself, even in it's own outrage and fury where there's always a bill to be paid so to speak.

But oh to be the one who misaligns themselves and their consciousness and their hardened will, with a convoluted and twisted agenda, now that's a whole tangled network of lies all bound up on the wrong side of history.

Which is probably why Jesus asks us to pray for our enemies, because they are in dire need of help.


Read through to the end of that thread in the ATS HOAX BIN - you'll be rewarded with something both surprising and humorous, imho.


Best Regards,

EagleEye


Posted by: rob balsamo Feb 6 2014, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (EagleEye @ Feb 3 2014, 12:37 AM) *
So instead of showcasing the research on a 9/11 Conspiracy Forum, and even applauding the efforts of the Thread Author, the thread was moved to the hoax bin under false pretenses (a "hoax" in and of itself) and the thread author himself (moi) later banned outright on the basis of a very minor T&C violation, but it was inevitable once the target was on him for having tangled with the ATS staff and ownership who piled on in the thread like a gang on a mission.



No one here is surprised of the outcome. I tried to warn you what will happen when you first expressed your desire to post our work on ATS.

As I explained, anyone who posts our work on ATS will be virtually gang raped by the staff, the CEO will come out of the woodwork, they will move and close your thread, and you will eventually be banned.

Again....The Staff at ATS is not interested in the truth. .and in this case in particular, are more interested in a flight manual written by some kids who fly Microsoft Flight Simulator.

You have an excellent understanding of our work, EagleEye,... I recommend you take your argument to a more objective forum. You have proven your point at ATS. Good job!

Posted by: EagleEye Feb 10 2014, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 6 2014, 06:43 PM) *
No one here is surprised of the outcome. I tried to warn you what will happen when you first expressed your desire to post our work on ATS.

As I explained, anyone who posts our work on ATS will be virtually gang raped by the staff, the CEO will come out of the woodwork, they will move and close your thread, and you will eventually be banned.

Again....The Staff at ATS is not interested in the truth. .and in this case in particular, are more interested in a flight manual written by some kids who fly Microsoft Flight Simulator.

You have an excellent understanding of our work, EagleEye,... I recommend you take your argument to a more objective forum. You have proven your point at ATS. Good job!


I discovered that the staff and ownership of ATS, with the exception of maybe one among them, are.. not very nice people, especially the CEO.

They're on the wrong side of history, the poor bastards.

There are many who just don't know lacking in information, they can be excused, but then there are also those who do, and who nevertheless persist in trying to defend the wrong side and for all the wrong reasons, i sure don't envy them when the truth comes home to roost which it's already doing everywhere.

Some of the others just can't believe what the government is capable of, but there's an inner circle there who do know better.

ATS is a honey pot. If a truth emerges there, they work very actively to shut it down and remove it from public consumption, it's the pattern.

What a disgusting and disgraceful thing that is when you really think about it.


Posted by: rob balsamo Feb 12 2014, 09:57 PM

QUOTE (EagleEye @ Feb 10 2014, 08:30 PM) *
I discovered that the staff and ownership of ATS, with the exception of maybe one among them, are.. not very nice people, especially the CEO.


I think the most hilarious part is that the CEO of ATS moved your thread to the hoax bin due to a "rebuttal" document provided by some anonymous member of ATS, in which has been proven to be written by kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, in lieu of actual documents provided by Boeing.....

As if the CEO of ATS couldn't reduce his credibility even further.... he outdoes himself once again.... what an idiot. laughing1.gif

And yes, now that you have been banned from ATS, EagleEye, (as predicted)..... I will email this post to Bill Irvine (the CEO of ATS).... because I know he and his cronies read this forum, but at times need to be prompted.

Keep an eye on "TheSkepticGuy" profile registered at this forum, and note his last login after this post. I give it less than two hours after this post that he checks this post....

:-)

Posted by: tumetuestumefaisdubien Feb 12 2014, 11:11 PM

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 12 2014, 02:57 PM) *
I think the most hilarious part is that the CEO of ATS moved your thread to the hoax bin due to a "rebuttal" document provided by some anonymous member of ATS, in which has been proven to be written by kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, in lieu of actual documents provided by Boeing.....

Well, we know here why we call it Above Top Sh*t for years. Even just by simple using Googleleaks with right keywords I was at the time able to find more above top secret (and beyond N.S.A. classified) stuff in couple of seconds than ever at the ATS... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: 23investigator Feb 13 2014, 06:18 AM

QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 13 2014, 12:41 PM) *
Well, we know here why we call it Above Top Sh*t for years. Even just by simple using Googleleaks with right keywords I was at the time able to find more above top secret (and beyond N.S.A. classified) stuff in couple of seconds than ever at the ATS... rolleyes.gif



Dear 'tume-------'

What a lovely smile, I am listening to Matt Munro at the moment, what a wonderful world.

That is the big difference in this world, and we don't need GOOGLE to find that out.

Robert S

ps missed you from here!!

Posted by: tumetuestumefaisdubien Feb 13 2014, 06:17 PM

QUOTE (23investigator @ Feb 12 2014, 11:18 PM) *
Dear 'tume-------'
What a lovely smile, I am listening to Matt Munro at the moment, what a wonderful world.
That is the big difference in this world, and we don't need GOOGLE to find that out.
Robert S
ps missed you from here!!

Thanks Robert
cheers.gif
not easy years behind...nor ahead...
There are precious things in this world one can't google at all.
But I sometimes google music and I'm amazed what one can find.
I'm not sure if it makes me smile always, but at least not sick&tired.
Which one can't say about the ATS stuff - either the real, or the braiwash sold under that trademark or many other trademarks registered by theyTMTM
Sometimes one would want to cry: "You thought TV is ultimate way how to destroy peoples minds? Think twice. TV could be a stoneage of braiwashing in comparison with the global scale laundromat people could create for themselves using internet and all that fancy online, on-air, on-whatever gadgets often never seeing the faces, nor hearing voices of those unleashing the demons instead of learning something"
Or just :"stick your smartphone ya' know where.." (before one realizes it could be a ditty abused by militaryhiphopindustrialcomplex in starshiptroopersX without even paying royalties)

One rarely has simple human feeling with all this, so missing sometimes.

Once over a decade ago I knew a girl, she had multiple mobilephones...then she disposed them, fled to an island in the middle of the pacific the express mail is reaching in month, even with email it is in simmilar ratio to usual standards and never really came back.

How to not get crazy, mad or simply thoroughly alienated...

Recently I again encountered a guy here who apparently thinks that repeated insults to people trying to talk with him and to common sense help his "truth" cause and I wanted to leave again as some years ago after trying to talk to another such and learned among other things I'm agent of idontrememberwhat (unfortunately without the beautiful asian girl, copter and yacht the guy Rooks from the Cypher had).

So many thanks again. Really. Sorry for me lacking English skills to find more appropriate words perhaps, but it's like a fresh blue lagoon encountered on the sad journey through the desert.
- which after all one at least still can walk on and that's maybe why the deserts somehow frighten me less than oceans, although we're made of water and I like whales and dolphins and I suppose they would have opposite opinion...and we need a bird to add the third ..so we are at P4T.
- at least we somehow deeply sense it weren't aliens who did it so for now we don't really need the fourth although it is not really comforting and it falls in my mind what the little girl told to that pathetic lone gunman in the group therapy standoff scene of the Spielberg's monstermovie Taken...although frankly my favorite scene is the uncle Chet's last message. thumbsup.gif
I wondered what a buddhist would really do if encountering the bettle scuttling across his meditation footpath, then I realized human is though one perhaps wishes him not to underfoot it and say hello one doesn't really know, but wonders and asks.
But to get back to the aged thread topic and after experience I bet that in this Xth-generation (dis-)information age one should again better watch out what and who offers the "answers".

Posted by: paulmichael Aug 7 2014, 09:25 AM

QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 12:15 AM) *
it is because of associates of P4T making a mockery of those interested in the truth.


The moderators of Above Top Secret (ATS) are fine ones to be casting aspersions on others for making a mockery of the truth considering the way in which those ATS moderators censor the truth by deleting posts... a most hypocritical way, I might add.

Oh, they are kind enough to inform you of a deletion by stating that the post on which you had worked rather hard and in good faith has been "moved to the trash bin." How insulting!

Recently a message went to ATS participants regarding shills.

I don't know if this was a broadcast message to everyone or just to certain individual like me.

It was labeled "Community Announcements," but there is no "Community Announcements" forum so I cannot retrieve that message by digging through a forum nor by way of the ATS search feature.

This is a problem because I don't remember the exact wording of the message, but I came away with the impression that if anyone so much as intimates that ATS is infested with shills – and I am of the firm belief that it is – then his account will be terminated.

To be quite honest, I don't know who is worse: the ATS shills or the ATS moderators.

One thing to be sure is that ATS is advertising-sponsored, and, like the mainstream media, ATS has to be careful about not offending its advertisers lest accounts and revenues be lost.

However, since ATS is a "conspiracy forum" I don't understand how they can keep from being controversial with such controversy posing a risk of offending sponsors. I think there is a major flaw in the business model of ATS, but somehow it managed to be around for a good amount of time.

P.M.

Posted by: paulmichael Dec 24 2014, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (paulmichael @ Aug 7 2014, 08:25 AM) *
To be quite honest, I don't know who is worse: the ATS shills or the ATS moderators.

One thing to be sure is that ATS is advertising-sponsored, and, like the mainstream media, ATS has to be careful about not offending its advertisers lest accounts and revenues be lost.

However, since ATS is a "conspiracy forum" I don't understand how they can keep from being controversial with such controversy posing a risk of offending sponsors. I think there is a major flaw in the business model of ATS, but somehow it managed to be around for a good amount of time.



In a reply in Above Top Secret thread #1046859, dated December 17, 2014, SkepticOverlord states, "We've passed on several direct-buy campaigns (big advertisers paying to run specifically on ATS) because they wanted certain topics removed or suppressed."

The main topic of the thread was how ATS has resorted to fund-raising to cover the costs associated with a denial of service attack plus the loss of Google's AdSense advertising revenues.

See, I told you that there were flaws in their business model.

P.M.


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