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Bailey Vs. Olson Et Al, Is Bailey really unique amongst all the passengers?

NP1Mike
post Jan 6 2015, 08:34 PM
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Honoring Truthissweet’s request, I am starting a new thread on the following.

In another thread Truthissweet recently stated the following:

“I am one who feels that all 'plane' passengers are alive. The Ace Bailey mystery is unique because he was real….
Real vs. aliases is what I am discussing.”

He hasn’t explained in detail what he feels the breakdown is for all the passengers that he feels are still alive. He talks about real vs. aliases.

But since he hasn’t given a third category, one must assume at this point in time, that either the passenger is real or an alias.

Now let’s take a look once again at one of his statements from above:
“The Ace Bailey mystery is unique because he was real…. “

Unique usually means ‘one of a kind’.
So Ace Bailey was unique because he was real.

So I thought to myself, “wait a minute, wasn’t Barbara Olson also real?”
If she was, then Ace Bailey can no longer be viewed as ‘unique’ because he is no longer one of a kind (real).

And not long ago there was a poster here, I believe it was mainer, who stated that he personally knew another passenger from 9/11. So now we have two additional 'unique' real people, besides Bailey. dunno.gif



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FirstUsedBooks
post Jan 6 2015, 09:14 PM
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Because of eyewitness reports of what hit the towers, because of the engine found on Murray St., because of the damage to the Pentagon, because of lack of debris at Shanksville, it is reasonable to question whether 767s or 757s were involved. What is not reasonable is to deduce from this that passengers on these flights were spared, sent to some Gilligan's Island where they live happy ever after. Assuming that the whole thing is a hoax perpetrated by whomever, it is unreasonable to suppose that the perpetrators would have been concerned about the well-being of passengers from commandeered or replaced flights. The first principle of any such undertaking would have been to KISS (keep it simple, stupid) as much as possible, involve as few others as possible, leave as few tracks as possible.
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NP1Mike
post Jan 6 2015, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (FirstUsedBooks @ Jan 6 2015, 08:14 PM) *
...Assuming that the whole thing is a hoax perpetrated by whomever, it is unreasonable to suppose that the perpetrators would have been concerned about the well-being of passengers from commandeered or replaced flights. The first principle of any such undertaking would have been to KISS (keep it simple, stupid) as much as possible, involve as few others as possible, leave as few tracks as possible.



I agree 100%.
Why keep 200+ passengers alive (real or aliased) when all it would take is for just one of them
to spill the beans?

Far too risky in my estimation.
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Truthissweet
post Jan 7 2015, 10:19 AM
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Thanks for starting thread, NP. Prove to me Olson was real and not an alias. Show me all your evidence. Set it up like I set up Ace post. Then I will comment.

$$ keeps people quiet. Lots of it. If one thinks all passengers are dead, that is fine with me. I respect those opinions. I presented the Ace/Bavis case to try to find what could possibly been a reason for him to be on 175 other than returning to LA for traing camp. This type of reasearch has been done with each plane passenger. It is just my opinion. Nothing more. Who knows, maybe Ace was just in the wrong place in the wrong time.

One more time, it is just my opinion. The thread was about Ace/Bavis. My intent was not to start a debate on real vs. alias passengers. That is all I got to say on that.

This post has been edited by Truthissweet: Jan 7 2015, 10:40 AM
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Truthissweet
post Jan 7 2015, 02:49 PM
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Lets do this. Obviously you steered my Ace thread to Olson. Fine. Olson graduated college in '78. How could she then go to Harkness Ballet which closed in '75. Show me proof she danced with the ballet.


Harkness Ballet:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harkness_Ballet
QUOTE
The theatre was completely remodeled with state-of-the-art dance stage flooring and Spanish artist Enrique Senis-Oliver painted ceiling murals, opening with a season by the company in 1974. The company disbanded within the next year.


She also danced with the San Francisco ballet. Show me proof. I see nothing by the ballet giving a tribute to her.

Prove me wrong and I will buy Olson was not directly involved in 911.

Your move, sir.

(everyone knows about the calls being b.s.)
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NP1Mike
post Jan 7 2015, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Jan 7 2015, 01:49 PM) *
Olson graduated college in '78.
How could she then go to Harkness Ballet which closed in '75. Show me proof she danced with the ballet.


She also danced with the San Francisco ballet. Show me proof.
I see nothing by the ballet giving a tribute to her.

Prove me wrong and I will buy Olson was not directly involved in 911.

Your move, sir.

(everyone knows about the calls being b.s.)



I think you have it backwards Truthissweet.
There are no indications to me at all that Barbara Olson was an alias.
I think it would be far more instructive to prove that Barbara Olson was an alias
than to prove that her true identity was someone other than Barbara Olson.

As for the pieces of her bio above that don't seem to fit;
were the sources authoritative, how far did you dig with each one?

"Politically Incorrect” was created by Bill Maher in 1993.
Barbara Olson was a regular guest and appeared on almost every show.

So Olson was already regularly in the public eye, on TV, as early as 1993.
Who was that person millions of people were viewing on TV if not Barbara?
And why were people conniving almost a decade before 9/11, prepping various future
passengers with aliases?

No, I'd rather you prove Barbara Olson was an alias than I prove it
was her true identity.

Some dancer bio that doesn't add up or make sense when weighed against a preponderance of other strong evidence showing it is her true identity won't convince many people of your theory.
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Truthissweet
post Jan 7 2015, 04:47 PM
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From Larry King
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0201/06/lklw.00.html
QUOTE
KING: How about all the lives she touched?

T. OLSON: Well, she touched lives in so many ways. It was really unbelievable. I think I've told people, and people that have watched your program, and have read her books, know that she was a ballet dancer.




From Princeton:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wik...bara_Olson.html
QUOTE
Olson was born Barbara Kay Bracher in Houston, Texas. (Her older sister, Toni Bracher-Lawrence, has been a member of the Houston City Council since 2004.) She graduated from Waltrip High School[1] and earned a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Saint Thomas in Houston.

Olson became a professional dancer, performing with the San Francisco Ballet and the Harkness Ballet in New York City. She switched careers and went to Hollywood to work as an assistant producer for television and movies.



Scroll down for Ted's take:
http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/life/spring2002/lost/
QUOTE
Barbara was a Texan, from a family whose ancestors came to this country from Germany, so she was a descendant of immigrants, like virtually all of us.
Barbara went to the University of Texas and a Catholic university, St. Thomas, in Houston. She became a professional ballet dancer in San Francisco and New York because of the beauty of dance and the rigor of its discipline, and because you have to be extraordinarily tough and ambitious to do it. And Barbara was extraordinarily tough and ambitious.
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NP1Mike
post Jan 8 2015, 01:54 PM
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“Ace was a real person. I saw him play on TV back in the day.”
“I am one who feels that all 'plane' passengers are alive. The Ace Bailey mystery is unique because he was real.”
“Real vs. aliases is what I am discussing.”

Perhaps I am just a bit dense, but I don’t see where you are going with this.
In your other post you state that the Ace mystery is unique because he was real.
Then you state that ‘real vs. aliases’ is what you are discussing.
It is reasonable to assume, according to what you have stated, that since Ace was real, and also unique because he was real, that the rest of the passengers were ‘aliases’.

I am sure you know what an alias is: a name used by someone, to take the place of their original (genuine name). Aliases are often used when someone wishes to start a new life after committing a crime or getting involved in a situation where their life is not safe under their original identity.
In addition to using an alias, people will often undergo surgery or alter their appearance in another way to avoid suspicion or detection.

In your posts here, you are implying that Barbara Olson is an alias.
That would mean that the woman who was appearing all those years up until her death, in front of millions of people, (including those years prior to marrying Ted Olson, when she was Barbara Kay Bracher) was really another person with an identity different from Barbara Olson. Let us say for the purposes of this discussion that her real name was Jane Smith.

What proof do you have that this was the case?
All of Barbara Olson’s bio history makes sense; is quite ordinary.
Apart from the part about her being a ballet dancer, which you seem to think is important, do you have anything else that you find really strange about her past?
To me, whether she was or wasn’t a ballet dancer is quite trivial.
People will from time to time embellish or be creative with their resumes or bio’s.
They do it for different reasons.
If Ted Olson was defending Barbara’s story of being a dancer (and it turns out she wasn't really), it had to have been based on what Barbara had told him, since he didn’t know her at the time she was purported to be a dancer.

Please help me with this TruthIsSweet. I don’t see where you are going with this, nor do I see the basis upon which you believe Barbara Olson is an alias.
It makes no sense whatsoever to me.
It would mean that in her very early childhood, Jane Smith’s new alias (Barbara Kay Bracher) was created.
Again, what proof do you have of this, and what would a very young Ms. Smith have gained from it?
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Truthissweet
post Jan 9 2015, 01:09 PM
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Nothing more from me until you show me proof she danced with Harkness and SF ballet.
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paranoia
post Jan 9 2015, 02:58 PM
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dig deeper
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http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/life/spring2002/lost/
QUOTE
Barbara went to the University of Texas and a Catholic university, St. Thomas, in Houston. She became a professional ballet dancer in San Francisco and New York because of the beauty of dance and the rigor of its discipline, and because you have to be extraordinarily tough and ambitious to do it. And Barbara was extraordinarily tough and ambitious.

-ted never cites/mentions the Harkness Ballet



the source you quoted (the harkness claim) from is this:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wik...bara_Olson.html

but according to them:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wik...cs/warning.html
QUOTE
This content of this page is taken from Wikipedia, and may not be up-to-date. The objective of this website is NOT to provide information, but to demonstrate an automatic document organizer and browser. Please visit the original Wikipedia page if you're interested in content.



over at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Olson
-there is no mention of barbara olson as a ballerina, much less what companies she may have performed with. i briefly checked the history of that wiki page but was unable to find when that specific allegation (of harkness) had been added or removed from the page.


sidenote - though it isnt sourced, wiki claims she graduated in 77 not 78:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of...homas_(Houston)
QUOTE
Barbara Olson c. 1977 - author and political commentator[citation needed]


although the harkness claim was parroted by multiple news outlets and websites, the earliest source making the specific claim that barb olson "performed with the San Francisco Ballet and the Harkness Ballet in New York" is this:

http://ww2.fairfaxtimes.com/cms/archivestory.php?id=140558
QUOTE
Tuesday September 18, 2001

McLean neighbors lament loss of Barbara Olson
Barbara K. Olson, 45, of Great Falls was eulogized Saturday by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as a woman who went "boldly through life, shying from no challenge."

Marcia McAllister

Olson was among those who died when American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon after being hijacked Sept. 11.

She was married to Theodore B. "Ted" Olson, Solicitor General of the United States.

Olson, a legal analyst for CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, was a partner in the law firm of Balch & Bingham.

Thomas, speaking at a memorial mass for Olson at the Cathedral of Saint Thomas More in Arlington, said Olson had defended him during his difficult confirmation hearings when he was appointed to the court, even though he didn't know it at that time. She later told him.

He said Olson was that kind of person, "giving much, expecting nothing."

The Olsons were close friends for "many, many years" to McLean residents Kenneth and Alice Starr.

"To Ken and me, Barbara was larger than life," Alice Starr said. "She was fiercely loyal, compassionate, a great friend to us."

"Barbara was a wonderful wife to Ted, they were totally devoted to each other," Alice Starr also said.

Thomas described the Olsons as "two hearts beating as one."

Barbara Olson was the author of the bestseller, "Hell to Pay." She also had written "The Final Days," a book that is expected to be released later this year.

A native of Houston, Olson had performed with the San Francisco Ballet and the Harkness Ballet in New York. She also worked in Hollywood as a production executive.

Olson was Assistant U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia from 1992 to 1995. She was principal assistant general counsel and solicitor for the House of Representatives in 1995 and was the chief investigative counsel for the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight from 1995 to 1996.

She had been general counsel to assistant Senate Majority leader Sen. Don Nickles, a Vienna resident, from 1996 to 1998.

In addition to her husband, she is survived by a stepdaughter, Christine Olson, of Phoenix, Ariz.; a stepson, Kenneth J. Olson, of Ashburn, and his wife, Laura Olson, and their three children; a brother, David Bracher Sr., of Houston, and his wife, Sharon Apel, and their four children; and a sister, Antoinette Lawrence, of Houston, and her husband and son.

She was preceded in death by her father, V. C. Bracher, and mother, Louise Bracher.

-since the article is about barb's eulogy - as given by Clarence Thomas - is it possible he was the one to say she danced with the harkness ballet? or someone else attending, AND speaking at the funeral, made that assertion? to find out, you should probably ask the source, this lady:


http://ww2.fairfaxtimes.com/cms/archivestory.php?id=195806
QUOTE
Wednesday April 13, 2005
Fairfax division of Times Community Newspapers wins 33 VPA awards
Fourteen reporters and editors and three photographers from Times Community Newspapers' Fairfax Division took home 33 awards from the annual Virginia Press Association competition for 2004
-Marcia McAllister named as writing award recipient several times


i could only find this one marcia mcallister in northern virginia currently, so this MAY BE her but it is not confirmed:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/marcia-mcallister/12/bb0/625
Washington D.C. Metro Area - Communications Manager at Dulles Rail Project


if it IS the same person who was the author of the september 18th (of 2001) article, then maybe she can be reached here:

CODE
http://www.dullesmetro.com/news/index.cfm.html
Ms. Marcia McAllister
Communications Manager
Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project
Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority
Tel: 703.572.0506
Fax: 703-572-0510
Email: marcia.mcallister@dullesmetro.com



-TS i recommend you contact her for clarification and hopefully are able to obtain her original source for the Harkness Ballet claim. til then, the claim itself is not sufficiently established as fact. keep in mind that even ted olson never made that specific claim. also, there is a gap in her bio from time of college graduation (77 or 78) til the 1990's when she began working in hollywood, a gap during which she may have been trying to succeed (professionally) as a ballerina, though not necessarily with the harkness ballet.

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NP1Mike
post Jan 9 2015, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Jan 9 2015, 01:58 PM) *
http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/life/spring2002/lost/

-ted never cites/mentions the Harkness Ballet


...although the harkness claim was parroted by multiple news outlets and websites, the earliest source making the specific claim that barb olson "performed with the San Francisco Ballet and the Harkness Ballet in New York" is this:

...-since the article is about barb's eulogy - as given by Clarence Thomas - is it possible he was the one to say she danced with the harkness ballet? or someone else attending, AND speaking at the funeral, made that assertion? to find out, you should probably ask the source, this lady:


...-TS i recommend you contact her for clarification and hopefully are able to obtain her original source for the Harkness Ballet claim. til then, the claim itself is not sufficiently established as fact. keep in mind that even ted olson never made that specific claim. also, there is a gap in her bio from time of college graduation (77 or 78) til the 1990's when she began working in hollywood, a gap during which she may have been trying to succeed (professionally) as a ballerina, though not necessarily with the harkness ballet.


Thanks for taking the time to do this extra research Paranoia.

I have nothing to prove here, as I am making no special claims.
TruthIs is claiming that Brabara Olson was not real (was an alias).
The onus is on him to prove his claim.

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Truthissweet
post Jan 10 2015, 10:06 AM
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Someone gave me a tip last night. Barbara Olson was a dancer. She was really Chris Farley!



NP, I will contact the the name mentioned by paranoia via email. Hopefully she replies back.
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