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Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum _ Religion _ Folds Of Time

Posted by: lunk May 21 2009, 04:21 PM

I mean this only in jest, but...

QUOTE
I remember reading a science fiction novel about the folds of time... or perhaps, in time. I couldn't remember the author... sorry...
But, if I remember, it was about the universe being split into two possibilities at every moment.

Every time you make a decision, one way or the other, both things happen, and another, entire universe is created, with each decisions, or possibility.

...
...
...

WELCOME TO THE lunk UNIVERSE!

I apparently own and run this universe that you have happened to arrive in.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

As I have just realized this truth, myself, this universe may seem a little messed up at the moment.
It is.
I'm trying my darndest to rectify the problems,
but, like you're trying to come to grips that "this is my universe;"
I am still trying to come to grips with "this is my universe," too.
...and that is even harder!

I mean, here I am, living in an infinite number of infinite universes, all of which are infinite on their own...but I have to be ruler, commander, and chief, of this particular one,
starting as soon as I realized it.

ugg.

All I can say, is I'll do my best, to alleviate unnecessary suffering, and do what I can to make my (this) universe to be a much better place, than it is now.


cheers, lunk

Posted by: Ricochet May 21 2009, 06:38 PM

I think the book was "A Wrinkle in Time". Sounds familiar, and by the way this is my universe ou happen to be in. Or our universes crossed paths...or no of this is really happening...

Posted by: lunk May 21 2009, 07:15 PM

I think that this is a good philosophy for everyone.

Whatever, you thought yourself to be, in this world,
is irrelevant, to what you are now, that is,
the ONE running the universe.

...of course, nobody will recognize you, for this, yet,
and that may be a good thing too.

...but if this was true, for you, and you knew that this was your very own universe, would you do things differently?

I'm still puzzling this notion.

Posted by: Omega892R09 May 22 2009, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ May 19 2009, 09:15 PM) *
I'm still puzzling this notion.

Hum! How come Dick Cheney has just re-appeared in my universe?

How dare he! How dare he!

Posted by: lunk May 22 2009, 06:06 PM

If this universe is infinite, then there would be an infinite number of universes just like it, out there with just one thing different. So there probably is a universe where a Dick is ruling it, but it probably got too many wars going on, to want to be there,
...if it still is there...

Posted by: Omega892R09 May 23 2009, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ May 20 2009, 08:06 PM) *
...if it still is there...

Probably not as it had a non-recoverable heart attack.

I don't know if the Dick had one of those so how did the doc's manage to find one to fix it?

Posted by: lunk May 23 2009, 05:25 PM

I guess, if the universe is infinite, and we are just, finite,
then, relative to the universe, we would be...
...no matter.

Either the universe is finite,
or each of us must be, in some way,
just as infinite as the universe,
or we wouldn't exist.

Perhaps there is a flaw in this logic,
but the thought, sure feels good.

Posted by: lunk May 29 2009, 07:27 PM

At any moment, one, makes a decision, like to go, left, rather than, right,
two entirely different futures could occur, depending on the decision...

...and the universe splits, again, and the two universes go expanding on,
off, in their own infinite directions.

Posted by: JimMac Jun 1 2009, 06:59 AM

ok, against my better judgement...which is never perfect at the best of times... i'm going to dig in here with a question which is metaphysical.

Have any of you cats ever had a dream which came true?

I did just one time. It rocked my world.

It was mid november 1977, so 32 years ago.

Fortunately, I had solid proof of it. I had the seeming innocent dream at about 6:20AM, and I woke up in the middle of it, which then became the end of the dream. I was a bit perplexed by the dream, and at the same moment in time, my GF, a school teacher, was awakened by my waking. So i verbalised the dream to her briefly because it was so odd, and then we both went back to sleep for about 30 min before the alarm buzzed. I think maybe that was why it stuck in my memory, the verbalisation.

December 23rd i flew home for Christmas. Dec 26th i called a high school buddy to say hello and wish him a Merry Christmas. I told him I was flying out the next day. He said you can't. You must come to the local bar, where his band was playing on the weekend. After some convincing on his part, I called the airline, and moved my flight to the Saturday and attended the friend's performance Friday night, the evening before the flight, along with a crowd of old friends.

It was there in that bar, with buddy up on the stage wailing rockin roll tunes that the dream unfolded. The dream had been of a one-armed fellow i went all the way thru grade school with since grade one. He had a prosthetic arm due to a farm accident. I hadn't seen him in some years because he dropped out of high school early and went away somewhere to work. He was sitting with a woman i took to be his wife. It was a simple dream. I looked over at him, he looked at me. Eyes locked for a second in recognition. We did not acknowledge each other particularly more than just the look back and forth. We both looked away simultaneously. In the course of the gaze, a blonde waitress walked between our positions carrying a tray of beer. I knew the waitress well.

That was it. I sat there for a few moments staring over blankly in his direction, as if in a trance. I knew i had discussed the one-armed fellow by name and the dream with the girlfriend six weeks earlier so it wasn't just a deja vu, it was real, but the accompanying feeling was the same only magnified because it was an event i really had viewed in advance. I never forgot it. Today i hold a crystal clear memory of that 3 seconds in time even when most memories are well faded. The shock of it i think embeded the memory in a special place in my brain.

I though a lot about that dream and what it implied over the years. After that experience, I was open to things beyond the scientific method proof, when i had never before been at all open to such things.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I reasoned that my consiousness, not of matter, was able to transend time into the future time-space. No need to explain what else this implies. It was a defining moment for me i guess. But what did it define? Ultimately, I was at a loss.

My conclusion was that we all have such dreams. I couldn't imagine it to be uniquely special, more than likely a hickup of events, the waking, the verbalisation, had sealed it into conciousness before its time.

Posted by: lunk Jun 1 2009, 11:48 AM

It wasn't a dream, but yesterday, for some reason, I was thinking of story line of that old film, The Fugitive.
It is rather synchronic , that today, I am reading this post.

Weird.

You don't happen to be a doctor, Jim?

Posted by: JimMac Jun 1 2009, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 1 2009, 11:48 AM) *
It wasn't a dream, but yesterday, for some reason, I was thinking of story line of that old film, The Fugitive.
It is rather synchronic , that today, I am reading this post.

Weird.

You don't happen to be a doctor, Jim?


No, but i've been a fugitive on more than one occasion (lol..joking). So if not a dream...what?

Posted by: lunk Jun 1 2009, 05:45 PM

I think, that the dream state is the exact opposite of the waking state.

Awake, the existence of things is known to you.
Dreaming, the non-existence of things is unknown to you.

Posted by: JimMac Jun 1 2009, 06:23 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 1 2009, 05:45 PM) *
I think, that the dream state is the exact opposite of the waking state.

Awake, the existence of things is known to you.
Dreaming, the non-existence of things is unknown to you.


Ok, now i'm confused. lol.. " Dreaming, the non-existence of things is unknown to you." Do you mean unknown things that exist on another plane? are unknown? It seems like a tautologous remark.

This is the (only) one-time empirical experience i have ever had in my life with something other-worldly. I know it happened, because I experienced it. The reality was an exact replay of the dream. Exact, down to the beer on the waitresses tray, her vector of travel, etc. This happened 6 weeks into my future, and I saw it happen in my mind's eye. In other words, the future event had substance, and my consciousness saw that. The existence of the event was known before hand. The unknown part, what that I did not know then it was (or would be) a real event. Anyway, it will remain unexplained. Maybe that was the message i got. Not all things can be explained. I'll settle for that.

The most disturbing after-effect of that phenomena for me, was the issue of free will. Apparently I was destined to be there, even changed my plane ticket. That part really bugged me too. Like something or somebody was messing with my head. It raised a lot of questions.

Anyway, thanks for your comment. btw, I have TRIED to replicate the experience for buying lottery tickets. Apparently I am not destined to win a lottery. smile.gif

Posted by: lunk Jun 1 2009, 11:18 PM

Hmm, In both the dream state and waking everything seems just as real.
But once you're awake, the dream, is thought of as, non-material.
And when you're dreaming, the real world has vanished, from your awareness.

The pineal gland, in the center of the brain, releases the chemical DMT, when in sleep, and at other moments in life. Rapid eye movement begins and one is thrown into a full blown dream state, perhaps, seemingly, more real and solid, than reality.

Posted by: truthmatters Jun 2 2009, 01:20 PM

QUOTE
The most disturbing after-effect of that phenomena for me, was the issue of free will. Apparently I was destined to be there, even changed my plane ticket. That part really bugged me too. Like something or somebody was messing with my head. It raised a lot of questions.


I don't remember ever having a prophetic dream like you described; however, I often find myself questioning the free will thing. How do we know for certain that we have it? What really motivates us to do what we do? Where the heck does motivation come from? Are we destined for particular situations? We think we're in control, making choices that we freely decide on ... but are we really? Is there something else going on?

Posted by: lunk Jun 2 2009, 02:22 PM

QUOTE (truthmatters @ Jun 2 2009, 10:20 AM) *
I don't remember ever having a prophetic dream like you described; however, I often find myself questioning the free will thing. How do we know for certain that we have it? What really motivates us to do what we do? Where the heck does motivation come from? Are we destined for particular situations? We think we're in control, making choices that we freely decide on ... but are we really? Is there something else going on?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf82QOqJTt8

...It's all in the hand, beforehand.

Posted by: Willow Jun 3 2009, 02:35 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 2 2009, 03:18 AM) *
Hmm, In both the dream state and waking everything seems just as real.
But once you're awake, the dream, is thought of as, non-material.
And when you're dreaming, the real world has vanished, from your awareness.

The pineal gland, in the center of the brain, releases the chemical DMT, when in sleep, and at other moments in life. Rapid eye movement begins and one is thrown into a full blown dream state, perhaps, seemingly, more real and solid, than reality.



But what is 'reality'? dunno.gif

(Great thread, BTW!)

Posted by: lunk Jun 3 2009, 07:12 PM

QUOTE (Willow @ Jun 3 2009, 11:35 AM) *
But what is 'reality'? dunno.gif

(Great thread, BTW!)

The environment in which one exists?

Posted by: Graeme Jun 3 2009, 08:00 PM

The Flic 'Donnie Darko' says it all to me, regarding time-loops.
ph34r.gif

Posted by: Willow Jun 4 2009, 09:00 AM

QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 4 2009, 12:12 AM) *
The environment in which one exists?


And what is that?


And does this mean that when one dreams, the dream environment is one's reality, and 'normal' waking reality ceases to exist?

And which 'one's' environment is 'reality'?


The implications here are mind blowing! wink.gif

Posted by: lunk Jun 4 2009, 12:11 PM

If you are dreaming then your reality is that dream environment.
If you are awake, then the real world is your reality.
and the dream reality, is outside of that.

Being awake, the dream world seems a fantasy.
Asleep and dreaming, the real world is mistaken for the dream.

Tough topic to comprehend.

...and how do I know that I'm not dreaming this?

Posted by: Willow Jun 4 2009, 12:15 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 4 2009, 04:11 PM) *
If you are dreaming then your reality is that dream environment.
If you are awake, then the real world is your reality.
and the dream reality, is outside of that.

Being awake, the dream world seems a fantasy.
Asleep and dreaming, the real world is mistaken for the dream.

Tough topic to comprehend.

...and how do I know that I'm not dreaming this?


laugh.gif You don't!

I guess reality is subjective then...?



...But that doesn't seem quite right as a bald statement... way too many issues... far too easy to argue against (and in danger of leading to solipsism) rolleyes.gif

It is subjective... I think the points made here show that... but it is also objective... as in we each experience it objectively.
Perhaps objective reality is part of subjective reality?


(edited to add uncertainty!)

Posted by: lunk Jun 4 2009, 01:09 PM

I can see things both ways.

(edit) added
Here is an interesting take on objective/subjective thinking:

Derren Brown - the System (6 parts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_0b4dkmD0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB8eDEHcGjs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT8nIr7C0iY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAiBdiqVjvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALS0xdvhqxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta-0kTUOygM

Posted by: Willow Jun 5 2009, 02:23 PM

QUOTE (lunk @ Jun 4 2009, 05:09 PM) *
I can see things both ways.


I think it is both ways... and isn't that the case with most things?

We spend so much time arguing over seemingly opposing dualities, when both are merely extreme interpretations/perspectives of the same thing.

Posted by: lunk Jun 5 2009, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (Willow @ Jun 5 2009, 11:23 AM) *
I think it is both ways... and isn't that the case with most things?

We spend so much time arguing over seemingly opposing dualities, when both are merely extreme interpretations/perspectives of the same thing.


I've noticed that.

People that seem at odds with each other,
tend to have ignored, similarities,
much greater than their differences.

Posted by: lunk Jul 11 2009, 02:53 AM

More pondering.
I keep thinking of the series, The Matrix and how the story is written to make Agent Smith, look like the bad guy, who eventually takes over the minds and bodies of everybody in the Matrix.
My spin is that Agent Smith is a Truther, who turns everybody else in the Matrix, into a Truther too. Neo Anderson, of course, translated, is the "New son of Man" that is to replace the inhabitants of the Matrix, who are now all turned into Agent Smiths. Neo is helped by the Renegades who have a line into the inner workings of the Matrix, that created the Matrix, and burnt the sky, fighting the Matrix...a ruling elite class, trying to hold onto control?
You see, the movie is not written from the perspective of the inhabitants of the matrix but portrays the "Elite Resistance" as the underdogs.
Talk about religious overtones.

Christianity talks about the Second coming, among many other things. Prominent people in the movement have sometimes, came out and said that they were the Second coming, like David Icke and David Shayler, I even heard Alex Jones once say that he was spreading the Truth to the people like Jesus did in his day.
It makes one wonder just how many Jesus's are there?

Well perhaps, using the Christian analogy, lots.
Perhaps the Second coming is a mindset that takes people over and turns them into an "Agent Smith", and in a way, another Jesus.

I like Alan Watt. He seems to think that all this was planned long ago, written into the symbols of astrology and added to all the religions, from ancient Greek myths to modern novels. A plan for the never ending continued rule of a small group of families over the rest of humanity.

still, just lunk

Posted by: BarryWilliamsmb Jul 12 2009, 09:25 PM

As a person understanding nothing about actuarial science and being a difficult to predict human being myself, I resemble your remarks about being suggestable. And that's precisely the reason why I won't be commenting on this comment...

Posted by: BarryWilliamsmb Jul 12 2009, 10:19 PM

Wow! I figured the Darren Brown thing out just before he revealed it and I bet (pun intended) he placed a 4 thousand pound wager on every horse in that race.

Excellent point, lunk.

Posted by: lunk Jul 13 2009, 12:28 AM

QUOTE (BarryWilliamsmb @ Jul 12 2009, 07:19 PM) *
Wow! I figured the Darren Brown thing out just before he revealed it and I bet (pun intended) he placed a 4 thousand pound wager on every horse in that race.

Excellent point, lunk.


Probably, that's why he asked her how much she bet on the horse, before the race, and bought the ticket(s) himself.
...but then, how did he switch her ticket, for the winner?

Posted by: lunk Jul 15 2009, 11:52 PM

OK, thought of the day.

Each of us is an expression of life,
in our own unique way.
No different, than a particular cat or flower.
But, we, as human beings, have the ability to consciously change our future,
beyond that of a plant or bug.

A human can solve a problem,
that most other life forms would just have to live with.
In this sense, people are above the plant, animal, and bug kingdoms,
yet, fundamentally, a result of it.
There is a natural place for everything, and purpose, for every things' existence, in the sense, it was necessary for everything else to exist,
where it does exist.

An eco-system that deemed it necessary,
to create you, to somehow carry on its' existence.

That's the puzzle.

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