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The Origins Of Oil Falsely Defined In 1892

Quest
post Feb 6 2014, 11:22 PM
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Oil is not a "fossil fuel" but rather is a result of naturally occurring processes not involving "decaying matter". The term is purposely misleading to give the impression of scarcity in order to drive up prices and form foreign policy around a false construct.

The Origins of Oil falsely defined in 1892
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JI8-YzMFX4...eature=youtu.be

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SteveF
post Feb 7 2014, 12:33 AM
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"It is easy to find fault, if one has that disposition. There was once a man who, not being able to find any other fault with his coal, complained that there were too many prehistoric toads in it"
-Mark Twain
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Alan H.
post Feb 7 2014, 02:36 AM
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While it's true that scientists don't know all the answers as to the origin or supply levels of oil, they don't believe that
the oil came from dead dinosaurs, as many people seem to believe. The most common theory is that oil was/is created
from various dead organic material accumulating on the bottom of oceans & riverbeds, (which is why some oil is so deep
while other is shallow), mixing w/sand & sediment, & over a process of time (again, scientists do not all agree on the
exact span of time, but they all believe it's on the order of a hundred-thousand years or more) heat & pressure worked
together to form this material into a tarry substance called kerogen, which then yields either natural gas or petroleum.
But this is just one theory. Here's a link to an interesting article on this subject:

Mysterious Origin & Supply of Oil


Regardless of exactly how the huge pockets of oil were created, almost all scientists agree that it's a long process, & it's
not something the Earth can continue to produce at anywhere near the levels at which we use it--which is on
the order of 85 million barrels of oil a day. Also, if oil were truly so plentiful, how was it that Hubbert was about right
when he predicted that the U.S.--once the oil producing giant of the world--would reach peak oil production sometime in
the early 70s? Yeah, he was off by a couple years, but America's oil production did peak & decline and now instead of
exporting tons of oil, we're importing it. If there were a near-limitless supply, U.S. oil demand could still be supplied by
U.S. wells.

I think 1 needs to understand the relationship between steady growth & the exponential function to appreciate how
quickly a resource can be depleted. There's a great video on this I highly recommend called "Arithmetic, Population &
Energy," which is a lecture given by physics professor emeritus Albert Bartlett, from the University of Colorado. The
person who up-loaded the video renamed it "the most important video you'll ever see," and while that was hyperbole,
it certainly opened my eyes a new understanding of the exponential function. You really only need to watch the first
20-30 mins to understand the implications of what the professor explains:

Math, Population & Energy


Also, if oil were truly so plentiful, we wouldn't be resorting to risky offshore & deep-well drilling, which has already
lead to some major catastrophes for which we don't yet know all the possible consequences--like the Deep-Water
Horizon spill. And now, oil supplies are so low that we're about to okay the Keystone Pipeline deal, which will pump
this nastiest of all oils--Canadian tar-sands-oil--through the heartland of America. And Trans-Canada already has an
awful reputation for spills, and this stuff has already been spilled, and it's nearly impossible to clean-up.

There's no doubt that oil supply #s are manipulated, as they are one of any nation's greatest sources of real wealth,
considered national security secrets. But you also have to appreciate the power of petrol and the fact that for what it
does, we still don't pay that much. 1 gallon of gas will off-set 250 man-hours of labor! And yet it's not much more than
a gallon of milk, still. And yes, it was once very plentiful, & had we used it wisely, it could've lasted a very long time. Oil
is what has driven agribusiness & allowed the world's population to expand so greatly. The U.S. represents about 5%
of the world's population, yet we use an estimated 1/4 of the world's energy resources. Obviously, we've created a
completely unsustainable model which China & India are now copying. So we have an exponentially decreasing supply
of oil pitted against an exponentially increasing population (even at a modest growth rate of 2.3 percent, that means
the world pop will double every 35 years, & people are living longer) and so I hope that you're right & that oil supplies
are far greater than anyone could've imagined, because if not, then a few billion people are going to find existence very
difficult. Of course, if we do still have these huge supplies of oil hidden somewhere, we better hope that 99% of
scientists are also wrong about man-made, fossil-fuel driven global climate change.

At least this would explain why our gov't has done nothing to promote clean, sustainable energy, or supportive infrastructure.
Of course, that would be to assume these people are rational & not the greed-driven sociopaths they seem to be. It's
also quite possible that the gov't has already developed clean, sustainable energy but wants to make sure their oil
buddies (supporters) will get to sell every barrel of oil they can coax from the ground, regardless of what they need to
do to the Earth to extract it, b4 this new energy is endorsed & supported. The same is true of coal & natural gas--would
we be resorting to things like strip-mining, mountain-top removal & fracking if there was an endless supply like
many claim?
I guess we'll find out within the next decade or so. Oil is not only vital for transportation, it's also used in the production
of almost everything, so this issue will have a huge impact on the world.

This post has been edited by Alan H.: Feb 7 2014, 02:41 AM
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nanothermite
post Feb 7 2014, 03:00 AM
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As an Environmental Scientist and Geologist I find this thread both strange and misleading. IMHO, people here are either mis-informed or shills for the Energy sector.
Fossil fuels are due to geological processes upon plant matter mainly deposited during the Carbonaceous Era. Coal and other solid fossil fuels are full of fossils - how they got the name - and the fossils date the formation period.
Oil is NOT formed by some other process - some minor amounts of methane perhaps.
Totally missing from this thread, and I fear on purpose [to mislead], is the fact that NO MATTER how formed, the continued burning of any hydrocarbon fuels put more CO2 in the atmosphere, warm the planet, create global climate change, acidify the oceans, air and water, upset the carbon and heat ballance, destroy the Ozone layer and more. We humans will either very quickly find alternatives [to hell with the profits of the evil and self-serving energy sectors] or persish very soon as a species, taking most of the larger life forms with us. The current extinction rate is about 250 species lost per DAY, every day and increasing rapidly. Humans are on that list too!
Magical science in the PR service of big Energy [tied intimately with the Oligarchy, Banksters, Military, Secret Government, Intelligence and other malfactors in US and World polity] have lied over and over....big Tobacco and big Pharma, big Chemical and Big GMO companies being only the tip of the iceberg. Crapitalism is not the answer. Buring more fossil fuels is deadly - and soon.
I question your facts and you 'agenda' for presenting them.
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Quest
post Feb 8 2014, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE (nanothermite @ Feb 7 2014, 08:00 AM) *
As an Environmental Scientist and Geologist I find this thread both strange and misleading. IMHO, people here are either mis-informed or shills for the Energy sector.
Fossil fuels are due to geological processes upon plant matter mainly deposited during the Carbonaceous Era. Coal and other solid fossil fuels are full of fossils - how they got the name - and the fossils date the formation period.
Oil is NOT formed by some other process - some minor amounts of methane perhaps.
Totally missing from this thread, and I fear on purpose [to mislead], is the fact that NO MATTER how formed, the continued burning of any hydrocarbon fuels put more CO2 in the atmosphere, warm the planet, create global climate change, acidify the oceans, air and water, upset the carbon and heat ballance, destroy the Ozone layer and more. We humans will either very quickly find alternatives [to hell with the profits of the evil and self-serving energy sectors] or persish very soon as a species, taking most of the larger life forms with us. The current extinction rate is about 250 species lost per DAY, every day and increasing rapidly. Humans are on that list too!
Magical science in the PR service of big Energy [tied intimately with the Oligarchy, Banksters, Military, Secret Government, Intelligence and other malfactors in US and World polity] have lied over and over....big Tobacco and big Pharma, big Chemical and Big GMO companies being only the tip of the iceberg. Crapitalism is not the answer. Buring more fossil fuels is deadly - and soon.
I question your facts and you 'agenda' for presenting them.


Hi Nano, I'm a long time member here, fwiw and am no shill for anyone. I posted this video to show that that oil is purposely termed a "fossil fuel" in order to promote the idea that it is scarce (like diamonds are supposedly rare) in order to charge exorbatint prices for it. The supposed scarcity of oil could also be used to help shape foreign policy and create a justification for war. I am not promoting oil nor am I saying there are not better (cleaner, more efficient, safer) ways in which to achieve energy but rather I am saying that the notion of oil is a fossil fuel is bogus and I stand on it. Oil is found in the ground, the same place fossils are found, so that makes oil a "fossil fuel"? Why not just call oil "fuel"? I am not a geologist but just because oil is made up most of mostly carbon I don't see how than means oil is a result of decaying matter. Is it possible that the truth is just the opposite, that humans and all life are a result of the same elements - hydrogen, oxygen and carbon, that created oil? That is the point of the attached video. That being said I think you make some great points but I would like to point out a few I think you missed as well.

As I understand it, the OCEANS produce most of our C02, 96-98 percent of it. I think you'll agree that if that number is accepted and there are ample articles around that state just that, that the burning of oil by mankind produces a very small amount of C02 in comparison. Btw, C02 is food to plants and without plants there would be no oxygen. As for as the ozone layer goes Chemtrails are actually doing a far greater job of destroying it than the burning of oil. In fact, that is the purpose of Chemtrails, make it appear that industry, plane travel and auto travel is making the atmosphere appear "dirty". But don't take my word for it, the media and our government tells us so all the time that our way of life is making the skies "dirty". I am not saying we should keep burning oil but rather that the topic and related issues are twisted and politicized for the benefit of the PTB. The military, and oligarchs are simply playing both sides of the fence which ultimately leaves THEM in control. We need THEM to give us energy. We need THEM to clean up the mess we've created. That is the game being played.

Chemtrails also serve the purpose of not only making the skies appear "dirty" but are in fact being used to militarize the weather and use weather as a weapon. It's all about controlling the masses and disaster capitalism.

Btw, David Keith, promoter of geoengineering and now Harvard scientist, says in a symposium that the spraying of aluminum and other heavy metals in the atmosphere can be used to cool the climate but then he goes on Stephen Colbert's show and then says sulfuric acid can be used to combat "global warming". How could Keith get it so wrong in 2 separate forums? Anyone care to take a stab at that?

This post has been edited by Quest: Feb 8 2014, 04:12 PM
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justaskin
post Feb 8 2014, 10:22 PM
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What about the helium?
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kaz
post Feb 8 2014, 11:56 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Feb 8 2014, 12:57 PM) *
Hi Nano, I'm a long time member here, fwiw and am no shill for anyone. I posted this video to show that that oil is purposely termed a "fossil fuel" in order to promote the idea that it is scarce (like diamonds are supposedly rare) in order to charge exorbatint prices for it. The supposed scarcity of oil could also be used to help shape foreign policy and create a justification for war. I am not promoting oil nor am I saying there are not better (cleaner, more efficient, safer) ways in which to achieve energy but rather I am saying that the notion of oil is a fossil fuel is bogus and I stand on it. Oil is found in the ground, the same place fossils are found, so that makes oil a "fossil fuel"? Why not just call oil "fuel"? I am not a geologist but just because oil is made up most of mostly carbon I don't see how than means oil is a result of decaying matter. Is it possible that the truth is just the opposite, that humans and all life are a result of the same elements - hydrogen, oxygen and carbon, that created oil? That is the point of the attached video. That being said I think you make some great points but I would like to point out a few I think you missed as well.

As I understand it, the OCEANS produce most of our C02, 96-98 percent of it. I think you'll agree that if that number is accepted and there are ample articles around that state just that, that the burning of oil by mankind produces a very small amount of C02 in comparison. Btw, C02 is food to plants and without plants there would be no oxygen. As for as the ozone layer goes Chemtrails are actually doing a far greater job of destroying it than the burning of oil. In fact, that is the purpose of Chemtrails, make it appear that industry, plane travel and auto travel is making the atmosphere appear "dirty". But don't take my word for it, the media and our government tells us so all the time that our way of life is making the skies "dirty". I am not saying we should keep burning oil but rather that the topic and related issues are twisted and politicized for the benefit of the PTB. The military, and oligarchs are simply playing both sides of the fence which ultimately leaves THEM in control. We need THEM to give us energy. We need THEM to clean up the mess we've created. That is the game being played.

Chemtrails also serve the purpose of not only making the skies appear "dirty" but are in fact being used to militarize the weather and use weather as a weapon. It's all about controlling the masses and disaster capitalism.

Btw, David Keith, promoter of geoengineering and now Harvard scientist, says in a symposium that the spraying of aluminum and other heavy metals in the atmosphere can be used to cool the climate but then he goes on Stephen Colbert's show and then says sulfuric acid can be used to combat "global warming". How could Keith get it so wrong in 2 separate forums? Anyone care to take a stab at that?



Oil is formed by fossilised hydrocarbon (a mixture of hydrogen and carbon) material such as algae put under heat and pressure over millions of years usually in shale layers. Its how elements come together that determine their existence. "all life are a result of the same elements - hydrogen, oxygen and carbon, " So why aren't we processing dead bodies of all animal/plant life into oil...it just can't be done,the heat and pressure over long periods of time make oil. What you seem to not understand is that the Earth's atmosphere and water/oceans are a closed loop system (eg:air/con). The C02 and other greenhouse gases (which help sustain life) which we burn daily are the gases that have been stored by nature over millions of years to maintain a habitable planet. And we are releasing it at a faster rate than nature can cope with. Making that small percentage amount ever larger unbalances the ocean's acidity as it can't process/absorb the extra amount. The amounts are then increased that go and stay in the atmosphere with CO2 being the longest lasting and most prevalent of greenhouse gases. If these Greenhouse gases didn't work there would be no life other than life that could survive severe cold. So before the Industrial age and our booming population nature had a fine balance. But even before Man existed over 200 million years ago we had a species killing global warming event bought on by the release of similar amounts of greenhouse gases mainly due to widespread volcanic activity. It took around 5,000 years to get CO2 levels over 800p.p.m which destroyed over 90% of all known species and eventually paved the way for Dinosaurs. We are getting to 400p.p.m in around 200 years and if nothing is done reach the 800p.p.m tipping point in another 100 years. It took the Earth 200,000 years to eventually absorb the greenhouse gases back into oceans,land and lifeforms (mostly trees). It was Carbon capture by Earth that allowed life to get back its finger hold on existence. Then 65 million years ago an Asteroid wiped out most Dinosaurs allowing Mammals to take over. We are pumping/digging up the Fossil Fuels like Oil/Coal that were stored in the ground and allowed life to evolve. We are unbalancing the closed loop eco system that sustains all present life.
If you believe THEY are controlling both sides then the best way forward would be to become a champion of Renewable,sustainable,clean energy and life practises. The more clean energy produced by small groups or individuals means decentralisation of power sources,greater independence and local decision making and the long term benefit of clean/air/water and land. No more paying for fuels sourced by Multi-nationals who ask you to go to War to keep the supply chain going. If you think its all too hard or expensive then you wouldn't be in a car driving on good roads. For around 40 years after Cars were invented they had to overcome a lack of gas stations,roads built for horses,being very uncomfortable,highly pollutant,low horse powered and very little infrastructure built for them. All the reasons given by pollution lovers as to why we can't have green power or electric cars etc.
Oh and if you think Chemtrails are putting holes in the Ozone layer and destroying our atmosphere then the criminals that are doing it will have to eventually wear Radiation suits and find an other planet to live on as underground bunkers won't cut it.
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Quest
post Feb 9 2014, 03:06 AM
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Hello, Kaz. I enjoy very much discussing this topic and I would like to address several items in your post but I would like to tackle this last statement from you 1st. You posted;

QUOTE
Oh and if you think Chemtrails are putting holes in the Ozone layer and destroying our atmosphere then the criminals that are doing it will have to eventually wear Radiation suits and find an other planet to live on as underground bunkers won't cut it.


You mean you don't think chemtrails aren't damaging the ozone and you are basing this on the reasoning that the perpetrators wouldn't do it because they would harm themselves? The perps are criminally insane in case you haven't noticed. It's almost as if they have a death wish. They put bad chemicals in their own food and home products, they built nuclear power plants that even when operating normally release radiation into the environment and we don't even need to go into Fukushima, do we? They spread depleted uranium dust all over the world, test nuclear bombs, put lead in paint, asbestos everywhere, fluoride in our/their water and on and on and on. These chemicals and pollutants go into their water and air as well. It also goes into their families' and children's food, air and water. Make of that what you will. Oh, and btw, the perps wars have gonocided over 100 million people in the last 100 years, but who's counting?

To your statement that Chemtrails aren't damaging the ozone, are you for real? Did you even bother to research your claim? DO you believe chemtrails are being used to protect us?

This from Geoengineeringwatch.org, http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/climate...f-civilization/

• Geoengineering related climate disruptions, extreme drought and deluge
Ozone depletion
Methane release
Drastic reduction in arctic sea ice
Global oxygen content reductions
Oceans on the brink of collapse
Massive fish die offs
200 species becoming extinct every single day
A drastic rise in Autism, Alzheimer’s, and Dementia
Crisis level forest reductions
The sterilization of soils making it impossible for plants to grow without Monsanto’s aluminum resistant seeds

Kaz, I don't think you get it... This is the insane perp's giant "F" you to all of us. They just plain hate us and are willing to destroy the planet so that they get to call every shot regarding our existence; what we eat, breathe, and drink....everything, and geoengineering in the form of Chemtrails and HAARP provide the plausible deniability they need to pull it off.

Just so you understand, I am NOT defending the use of oil or big oil companies. My original posting was merely to point out the fallacy of the term "fossil fuel" and the motive behind it and nothing more. In fact I consider myself an environmentalist and I do think we waste, pollute and pillage nature to our own detriment.

This post has been edited by Quest: Feb 11 2014, 11:28 PM
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kaz
post Feb 10 2014, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Feb 9 2014, 03:06 AM) *
Hello, Kaz. I enjoy very much discussing this topic and I would like to address several items in your post but I would like to tackle this last statement from you 1st. You posted;



You mean you don't think chemtrails aren't damaging the ozone and you are basing this on the reasoning that the perpetrators wouldn't do it because they would harm themselves? The perps are criminally insane in case you haven't noticed. It's almost as if they have a death wish. They put bad chemicals in their own food and home products, they built nuclear power plants that even when operating normally release radiation into the environment and we don't even need to go into Fukushima, do we? They spread depleted uranium dust all over the world, test nuclear bombs, put lead in paint, asbestos everywhere, fluoride in our/their water and on and on and on. These chemicals and pollutants go into their water and air as well. It also goes into their families' and children's food, air and water. Make of that what you will.

To your statement that Chemtrails aren't damaging the ozone, are you for real? Did you even bother to research your claim? DO you believe chemtrails are being used to protect us?

This from Geoengineeringwatch.org, http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/climate...f-civilization/

• Geoengineering related climate disruptions, extreme drought and deluge
Ozone depletion
Methane release
Drastic reduction in arctic sea ice
Global oxygen content reductions
Oceans on the brink of collapse
Massive fish die offs
200 species becoming extinct every single day
A drastic rise in Autism, Alzheimer’s, and Dementia
Crisis level forest reductions
The sterilization of soils making it impossible for plants to grow without Monsanto’s aluminum resistant seeds

Kaz, I don't think you get it... This is the insane perp's giant "F" you to all of us. They just plain hate us and are willing to destroy the planet so that they get to call every shot regarding our existence; what we eat, breathe, and drink....everything, and geoengineering in the form of Chemtrails and HAARP provide the plausible deniability they need to pull it off.

Just so you understand, I am NOT defending the use of oil or big oil companies. My original posting was merely to point out the fallacy of the term "fossil fuel" and the motive behind it and nothing more. In fact I consider myself an environmentalist and I do think we waste, pollute and pillage nature to our own detriment.


Reading your posts is like you totally ignore any evidence that challenges your fundamentalist view based on vague information. I have looked at supposed Chemtrail videos and I never see anyone collecting air samples then putting it in chain of evidence containers and taking to an independent Lab to be analysed. Ozone was being depleted by Hydro fluro carbons (HFC)found in aerosols and air/con. The "Conspiracy Scientists" told the world about this problem and action was taken to stop using HFC's with the result that the Ozone layer is almost repaired. Show some real evidence like where do these planes take-off ?exactly what chemicals are they allegedly using? What is the chemical reactions that cause all of these catastrophes ? Who owns this enormous fleet of aircraft that seemingly cover vast expanses of the earth's surface? Compare your claim to the amount of aircraft and coverage done by the US use of Agent Orange in Vietnam,Laos and Cambodia. A small area covered by many aircraft.
Oil is a Fossil Fuel made from heat compressed Hydrocarbons eg: Algae over millions of years it is not just Carbon and its not a fallacy just because you say so. If Oil was produced by nature according to the way you seem to think it is we would be making it in our own garages.
Your Doomsday Conspiracy is based on a group of Multi-national businessmen who are suicidal psychopaths who are accumulating vast amounts of wealth before they kill themselves and us all...Is that right?
Monsanto does GM seeds and tries to monopolise seed production. We have a farmer who is talking Monsanto to court because his organic Canola was contaminated by a GM crop. Forests are being cut down in record numbers as demand for farmland and living space for humans grow like our population is. By the way humans are living longer and growing in numbers so their dastardly chemtrail strategy isn't working.
Most of your other points refer to what is happening and/or will happen in the next 200 years if Fossil Fuel burning continues unabated and Global Warming gets to the tipping point of 800p.p.m of CO2 in our Single Earth's Atmosphere.
Lead is no longer in Paint or Gas, Asbestos is banned in most countries, many countries like Japan and Germany have or plan to shut down their Nuclear Power stations and above ground nuke tests no longer happen the Perps were defeated on all those. Fluoride is in most toothpastes as well (I use an Aloe Vera based one) and everywhere it isn't in the water the level of tooth decay is higher. Oh and even though you didn't mention it Combined Vaccines (MHR?) which you probably think causes Autism was withdrawn in Japan and Autism cases actually went up they have reinstated vaccines now.
The USA is about 2% of the World's surface, it has only 300 mill out of 7,000 million humans living there so not everything that happens in the USA happens everywhere else. You have an extreme cold weather event that leaves 98% of the Earth's surface experiencing something else like extreme heat/storms or droughts. Chemtrails aren't happening all around the world like HFC's were.
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Quest
post Feb 10 2014, 02:59 PM
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Kaz, let's cut to the chase here. Let me know where you stand. Do you believe there is any organized aerosol spraying program being currently conducted for any purpose? Yes or no? If you do believe there is an active aerosol spraying program underway, what do believe it's purpose to be?

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JimMac
post Feb 10 2014, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Feb 10 2014, 02:59 PM) *
Kaz, let's cut to the chase here. Let me know where you stand. Do you believe there is any organized aerosol spraying program being currently conducted for any purpose? Yes or no? If you do believe there is an active aerosol spraying program underway, what do believe it's purpose to be?


Why don't you move the chemtrails/geoengineering segment of this conversation over to the geoengineering thread, where it belongs. While you're at it, you can ask the questions about methane release in the arctic... This is a very important discussion, and not something that should be confused with some mysterious nonscientific notion that fossil fuels are somehow created by magic.
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Quest
post Feb 10 2014, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (JimMac @ Feb 10 2014, 10:04 PM) *
Why don't you move the chemtrails/geoengineering segment of this conversation over to the geoengineering thread, where it belongs. While you're at it, you can ask the questions about methane release in the arctic... This is a very important discussion, and not something that should be confused with some mysterious nonscientific notion that fossil fuels are somehow created by magic.


I agree JimMac, we'll move it. But I would first like Kaz to answer my last question and maybe with an admins help we can split the thread. Thanks

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Quest
post Feb 10 2014, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Feb 10 2014, 07:59 PM) *
Kaz, let's cut to the chase here. Let me know where you stand. Do you believe there is any organized aerosol spraying program being currently conducted for any purpose? Yes or no? If you do believe there is an active aerosol spraying program underway, what do believe it's purpose to be?


Kaz, would you please answer this question?

Also, please feel free to comment on posts in a similar thread.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10811246

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10811248

This post has been edited by Quest: Feb 11 2014, 11:34 PM
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kaz
post Feb 13 2014, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Feb 10 2014, 02:59 PM) *
Kaz, let's cut to the chase here. Let me know where you stand. Do you believe there is any organized aerosol spraying program being currently conducted for any purpose? Yes or no? If you do believe there is an active aerosol spraying program underway, what do believe it's purpose to be?


No. There is no worldwide aerosol spraying. I have been to Edwards airforce base and I saw various vapour trails in all manner of directions because they are constantly testing new aircraft and improving current aircraft. The reason I mention that is because its one of the photos on the Chemtrail video where the speaker basically says look at that it needs no explanation....is he giving a sermon? he certainly can't be bothered finding out what else it could be. The Air fleet needed to satisfy your aerosol theory would need to be bigger than all the world's aircraft. Commercial airlines run on a paper thin profit and can't afford to load up on chemicals in their wings/body over fuel. There is not one photo or schematic showing how these planes deliver the aerosols or how the chemicals are delivered to the planes in the first place. Also where are the enormous chemical factories needed to make this massive attack realistic? What I see in the Chemtrails video is typical of paranoid uninformed people who can't accept worldwide pollution is causing Global Warming so they try and blame it on the US Government and pretty much all the weather maps they use show the affects in North America....4% of the Earth's surface.
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JimMac
post Feb 13 2014, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE (kaz @ Feb 13 2014, 10:25 AM) *
No. There is no worldwide aerosol spraying. I have been to Edwards airforce base and I saw various vapour trails in all manner of directions because they are constantly testing new aircraft and improving current aircraft. The reason I mention that is because its one of the photos on the Chemtrail video where the speaker basically says look at that it needs no explanation....is he giving a sermon? he certainly can't be bothered finding out what else it could be. The Air fleet needed to satisfy your aerosol theory would need to be bigger than all the world's aircraft. Commercial airlines run on a paper thin profit and can't afford to load up on chemicals in their wings/body over fuel. There is not one photo or schematic showing how these planes deliver the aerosols or how the chemicals are delivered to the planes in the first place. Also where are the enormous chemical factories needed to make this massive attack realistic? What I see in the Chemtrails video is typical of paranoid uninformed people who can't accept worldwide pollution is causing Global Warming so they try and blame it on the US Government and pretty much all the weather maps they use show the affects in North America....4% of the Earth's surface.


Pure dis-info. I'm replying to this bunk in defense of those who are perhaps new to the phenomena. Let's start with 'what is a Chemtrail', shall we? I see this same phenomena as shown in the video, almost everyday, i'm also over 120km from any city and live off the flight corridor; yet observe this same phenomena horizon to horizon. There is a notable pattern to the aerosol spraying that corresponds to weather activity, having observed it for a few years. There's nothing 'to believe', its right there in front of your face. Your job is to observe, think, investigate and deduce. Be your own scientist. Don't let your awareness of your environment be derailed by those who throw bunk at you, in place of science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9vwCuaxso

Jim

This post has been edited by JimMac: Feb 13 2014, 04:20 PM
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kaz
post Feb 13 2014, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (JimMac @ Feb 13 2014, 04:15 PM) *
Pure dis-info. I'm replying to this bunk in defense of those who are perhaps new to the phenomena. Let's start with 'what is a Chemtrail', shall we? I see this same phenomena as shown in the video, almost everyday, i'm also over 120km from any city and live off the flight corridor; yet observe this same phenomena horizon to horizon. There is a notable pattern to the aerosol spraying that corresponds to weather activity, having observed it for a few years. There's nothing 'to believe', its right there in front of your face. Your job is to observe, think, investigate and deduce. Be your own scientist. Don't let your awareness of your environment be derailed by those who throw bunk at you, in place of science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ9vwCuaxso

Jim


I just posted this on the You Tube video. And tell me what did I say that was Bunk? Childish words aren't facts.

Air corridors out of Cities doesn't mean all planes stay continually in that corridor. They gain altitude then head to any point of the compass. Someone should try and match flight details and radar records to these vapour trails. Dallas/Fort Worth has planes taking off every 10 seconds going to all parts of the USA leaving vapour trails at altitude (its cold up there). "Look at that Look at that" and counting up to 6 or 7 isn't evidence nor is judging that one plane is 1000ft higher than either whilst standing on the ground.Has this guy ever bothered to analyse the pollution coming out of factories/cars and fossil fuel power plants? He may find out why asthmatics the elderly etc have breathing problems in cities amongst a number of other sickness that people get from pollution. This person should not be allowed anywhere near Jury Duty as any evidence which counters his beliefs will be dismissed with "Look at that how can you not believe". Are we getting a religious ceremony.
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Quest
post Feb 13 2014, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (kaz @ Feb 13 2014, 03:25 PM) *
No. There is no worldwide aerosol spraying. I have been to Edwards airforce base and I saw various vapour trails in all manner of directions because they are constantly testing new aircraft and improving current aircraft. The reason I mention that is because its one of the photos on the Chemtrail video where the speaker basically says look at that it needs no explanation....is he giving a sermon? he certainly can't be bothered finding out what else it could be. The Air fleet needed to satisfy your aerosol theory would need to be bigger than all the world's aircraft. Commercial airlines run on a paper thin profit and can't afford to load up on chemicals in their wings/body over fuel. There is not one photo or schematic showing how these planes deliver the aerosols or how the chemicals are delivered to the planes in the first place. Also where are the enormous chemical factories needed to make this massive attack realistic? What I see in the Chemtrails video is typical of paranoid uninformed people who can't accept worldwide pollution is causing Global Warming so they try and blame it on the US Government and pretty much all the weather maps they use show the affects in North America....4% of the Earth's surface.


A very scientific analysis, indeed. Because you said so. Because you went to an air force base. I guess we can all sleep better now.

Kaz, in another post regarding geoengineering you claimed that you have seen no results of air sample tests containing heavy metals from the air. Did you not? A few questions;

1. Did you bother to look for air sample tests and results?

2. If you didn't look for air sample test results, why not?

3. What would you say if I provided you test results from the air showing high levels of aluminum, barium and strontium?

4. What would it say about your knowledge of this topic or willingness to explore it objectively if you didn't even bother to look for air sample test results that do indeed exist regardless if they proved anything or not?

5. Is there any evidence that government bodies and private corporations are interested in Geoengineering? If so, name them. If you believe there are none, please state that claim as well.

6. Are there patents on geoengineering technologies? Please list those you are aware of. If you are aware of none, please state so.

Kaz, unlike you, the woman in the below video didn't just "visit" an air force base, she actually BELONGED to the air force (9 years) where she was trained in bio-environmental engineering and her responsibility was in fact to make sure the air force was in compliance with federal safety standards. Are you aware of her? She is but one of MANY that has taken soil and air samples to discover the aforementioned metals. Comments?

Geoengineering Whistleblower ~ Ex-Military ~ Kristen Meghan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHm0XhtDyZA

This post has been edited by Quest: Feb 14 2014, 04:57 PM
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Quest
post Feb 14 2014, 05:30 PM
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Kaz, I'll spot you #6.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/links-t...eering-patents/

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kaz
post Feb 14 2014, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Feb 14 2014, 05:30 PM) *



well I looked at the Kristen sermon "who doesn't believe in Geo Engineering", don't look at any Disinformation sites (Anti-Religous) everyone is a paid shill. I have been operated on and received medical attention for the past seven years. I receive no pensions and my Wife works hard to keep us afloat. I don't get paid by anyone. But anything I source can't be read by you. But here we go. She conducted a football size test of the Air quality,presumably at an airforce base (we aren't told) where planes running on fossil fuels all soughs of chemical jobs take place and finds contaminants amazing. Based on this small area (equivalent to a grain of sand on a beach we extrapolate that the whole world is being chemtrailed. The list of patents you referred to look like a cross section of what happened in the 20th century in regards to science discovery. Science,Businesses and the Government try many varied things to bring about change and not always for the common good. Dry icing (seeding) limited helpful effects, Agent Orange spraying a War Crime and Environmental disaster. This list should be broken down into what has actually been used,what it has been used for and how widespread its use was and what were the reported affects of those patents on the Environment. No another Religious experience...it's all bad. The lady in the video is begging for evidence from as many people as possible as it would need to be a worldwide effort to even begin to get a scientifically viable thesis going. "Where are the Planes,the Pilots" another question left unanswered.
Firstly to do a proper test you would have to eliminate the following air pollution before you claim chemtrail pollution from planes.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj8vfzpt...g5mwho1_500.gif

A general classification of chemical pollutants based on their chemical structure includes:

Organic chemical pollutants – are those chemicals of organic origin or that could be produced by living organisms or are based of matter formed by living organisms. Common organic chemical pollutants include:

Crude oil and petroleum refined products (e.g., gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, mineral spirit, motor oil, lubricating oil);
Solvents (e.g., acetone, MEK, toluene, benzene, xylene) used in industry as well as in many household products;
Chlorinated solvents (e.g., PCE, TCE, 1,1,1-TCA, 1,2-DCA, 1,1,2-TCA) used in industrial degreasing processes, as well as in dry cleaning, and in various household products;
PAHs (polyaromatic hydrocarbons) are found in petroleum products, crude oil, but are also a result of burning activities (e.g., from coal power plants as well as historical manufacturing gas plants);
PCBs (polychlorinatedbiphenyl ethers) which are now banned but were used in transformers and are already present in large amounts in environment
Alcohols (e.g., ethanol, methanol, isopropanol) are used in a large variety of applications and household products;
Trihalomethanes (e.g., chloroform, dibromochloromethane, chlorobromomethane, bromoform) which are common products of water chlorination
Phenols are usually an indication of waste water and a result of industrial processes;
Plastics are a result of industrial processes as well as our daily activities involving using and disposing of a large variety of plastics (e.g., bags, bottles, containers);
Pesticides / Insecticides / Herbicides are commonly used in agriculture and may contain toxic organic chemicals and metals (such as mercury and arsenic);
Detergents (e.g., nonylphenol ethoxilate) include a variety of chemical compounds with surface activity;
Organo-metalic compounds (e.g., organo-arsenicals, organo-mercurials) are usually pesticides / insecticides / herbicides.
Inorganic chemical pollutants – are those chemicals of mineral origin in (not produced by living organisms). Common inorganic chemical pollutants include:

Metals and their salts – usually from mining and smelting activities, as well as disposal of mining wastes;
Inorganic fertilizers (e.g., nitrates, phosphates) used largely in agriculture and gardening. If present in large amounts in water they can be harmful to human health and usually trigger algae blooming events;
Sulfides (such as pyrite) are usually mined minerals and once disposed in the environment, they may generate sulfuric acid in the presence of precipitation water and microorganisms
Ammonia is a poisonous gas if released in higher amounts and may cause blindness followed by death;
The oxides of nitrogen and sulfur are very common air pollutants resulting from vehicle emissions, industrial processes and other human activities
Acids and bases are used in a variety of industrial applications as well as in chemical laboratories. These are less problematic chemicals because their effect can be easily neutralized in the environment, but if spread in large amounts they may still pose a threat to environment and human health;
Perchlorate includes the perchloric acids and its various salts. Perchlorate is used in a variety of applications including rocket fuel, explosives, military operations, fireworks, road flares, inflation bags, etc. Perchlorate is problematic because it is persistent and may damage thyroid function in humans.

Now after sifting through that list lets just briefly focus on Coal(Fossil Fuel) power plants and see what they do for the atmosphere etc. We get CO2, SO2,NOx,CO,Sulfates,Nitrates Uranium,Thorium One large Coal Power station releases 150 times more radioactivity in the air in one year than the Three Mile Island Nuclear Accident. Dumped Coal Ash Contaminates Land and Water with Arsenic,Lead and Mercury (by far the largest source of Mercury) which causes many cancers and brain disfunction. Chemical Plants do a good job of providing the rest. So long before Chemtrails and Jets this toxic mix of chemicals was being pumped into the air causing long term health effects,acid rain destroying forests,poisoning of land,water,plants and animals and climate change caused by global warming of the atmosphere. As I pointed out before just the vapour trails left by Planes causes enough problems with the upper atmosphere by trapping more of the Sun's Radiation than it reflects. The best thing Americans can do is take back their Government by getting everyone to vote for people outside the 2 corporate lackey parties and get agencies like the EPA to start cleaning up Big Business Pollution which is being pumped out right in front of your faces. As I said before all the damage you claim Chemtrails maybe doing is already being done in the name of profit margins hence the corporate blitz to discredit clean,sustainable renewable energy.
Geo engineering as is Germ warfare takes or has taken place since man could think. Burning forests to clear land for hunting or crop growing to aerial spraying fertilisers or weedkillers to boost productivity. Its NO secret. Military,Science and Governments write papers on pretty much any scenario you can think of...even Alien landings its called theorising,forward planning for any eventuality. That's why I think the Chemtrail people need to show hard evidence such as actual planes that can spray being loaded up with chemicals and their source, as well as distribution patterns and what affects each chemical mentioned in the video actually has on the environment.
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Quest
post Feb 15 2014, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (kaz @ Feb 15 2014, 02:40 AM) *
well I looked at the Kristen sermon "who doesn't believe in Geo Engineering", don't look at any Disinformation sites (Anti-Religous) everyone is a paid shill. I have been operated on and received medical attention for the past seven years. I receive no pensions and my Wife works hard to keep us afloat. I don't get paid by anyone. But anything I source can't be read by you. But here we go. She conducted a football size test of the Air quality,presumably at an airforce base (we aren't told) where planes running on fossil fuels all soughs of chemical jobs take place and finds contaminants amazing. Based on this small area (equivalent to a grain of sand on a beach we extrapolate that the whole world is being chemtrailed. The list of patents you referred to look like a cross section of what happened in the 20th century in regards to science discovery. Science,Businesses and the Government try many varied things to bring about change and not always for the common good. Dry icing (seeding) limited helpful effects, Agent Orange spraying a War Crime and Environmental disaster. This list should be broken down into what has actually been used,what it has been used for and how widespread its use was and what were the reported affects of those patents on the Environment. No another Religious experience...it's all bad. The lady in the video is begging for evidence from as many people as possible as it would need to be a worldwide effort to even begin to get a scientifically viable thesis going. "Where are the Planes,the Pilots" another question left unanswered.
Firstly to do a proper test you would have to eliminate the following air pollution before you claim chemtrail pollution from planes.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj8vfzpt...g5mwho1_500.gif

A general classification of chemical pollutants based on their chemical structure includes:

Organic chemical pollutants – are those chemicals of organic origin or that could be produced by living organisms or are based of matter formed by living organisms. Common organic chemical pollutants include:

Crude oil and petroleum refined products (e.g., gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, mineral spirit, motor oil, lubricating oil);
Solvents (e.g., acetone, MEK, toluene, benzene, xylene) used in industry as well as in many household products;
Chlorinated solvents (e.g., PCE, TCE, 1,1,1-TCA, 1,2-DCA, 1,1,2-TCA) used in industrial degreasing processes, as well as in dry cleaning, and in various household products;
PAHs (polyaromatic hydrocarbons) are found in petroleum products, crude oil, but are also a result of burning activities (e.g., from coal power plants as well as historical manufacturing gas plants);
PCBs (polychlorinatedbiphenyl ethers) which are now banned but were used in transformers and are already present in large amounts in environment
Alcohols (e.g., ethanol, methanol, isopropanol) are used in a large variety of applications and household products;
Trihalomethanes (e.g., chloroform, dibromochloromethane, chlorobromomethane, bromoform) which are common products of water chlorination
Phenols are usually an indication of waste water and a result of industrial processes;
Plastics are a result of industrial processes as well as our daily activities involving using and disposing of a large variety of plastics (e.g., bags, bottles, containers);n
Pesticides / Insecticides / Herbicides are commonly used in agriculture and may contain toxic organic chemicals and metals (such as mercury and arsenic);
Detergents (e.g., nonylphenol ethoxilate) include a variety of chemical compounds with surface activity;
Organo-metalic compounds (e.g., organo-arsenicals, organo-mercurials) are usually pesticides / insecticides / herbicides.
Inorganic chemical pollutants – are those chemicals of mineral origin in (not produced by living organisms). Common inorganic chemical pollutants include:

Metals and their salts – usually from mining and smelting activities, as well as disposal of mining wastes;
Inorganic fertilizers (e.g., nitrates, phosphates) used largely in agriculture and gardening. If present in large amounts in water they can be harmful to human health and usually trigger algae blooming events;
Sulfides (such as pyrite) are usually mined minerals and once disposed in the environment, they may generate sulfuric acid in the presence of precipitation water and microorganisms
Ammonia is a poisonous gas if released in higher amounts and may cause blindness followed by death;
The oxides of nitrogen and sulfur are very common air pollutants resulting from vehicle emissions, industrial processes and other human activities
Acids and bases are used in a variety of industrial applications as well as in chemical laboratories. These are less problematic chemicals because their effect can be easily neutralized in the environment, but if spread in large amounts they may still pose a threat to environment and human health;
Perchlorate includes the perchloric acids and its various salts. Perchlorate is used in a variety of applications including rocket fuel, explosives, military operations, fireworks, road flares, inflation bags, etc. Perchlorate is problematic because it is persistent and may damage thyroid function in humans.

Now after sifting through that list lets just briefly focus on Coal(Fossil Fuel) power plants and see what they do for the atmosphere etc. We get CO2, SO2,NOx,CO,Sulfates,Nitrates Uranium,Thorium One large Coal Power station releases 150 times more radioactivity in the air in one year than the Three Mile Island Nuclear Accident. Dumped Coal Ash Contaminates Land and Water with Arsenic,Lead and Mercury (by far the largest source of Mercury) which causes many cancers and brain disfunction. Chemical Plants do a good job of providing the rest. So long before Chemtrails and Jets this toxic mix of chemicals was being pumped into the air causing long term health effects,acid rain destroying forests,poisoning of land,water,plants and animals and climate change caused by global warming of the atmosphere. As I pointed out before just the vapour trails left by Planes causes enough problems with the upper atmosphere by trapping more of the Sun's Radiation than it reflects. The best thing Americans can do is take back their Government by getting everyone to vote for people outside the 2 corporate lackey parties and get agencies like the EPA to start cleaning up Big Business Pollution which is being pumped out right in front of your faces. As I said before all the damage you claim Chemtrails maybe doing is already being done in the name of profit margins hence the corporate blitz to discredit clean,sustainable renewable energy.
Geo engineering as is Germ warfare takes or has taken place since man could think. Burning forests to clear land for hunting or crop growing to aerial spraying fertilisers or weedkillers to boost productivity. Its NO secret. Military,Science and Governments write papers on pretty much any scenario you can think of...even Alien landings its called theorising,forward planning for any eventuality. That's why I think the Chemtrail people need to show hard evidence such as actual planes that can spray being loaded up with chemicals and their source, as well as distribution patterns and what affects each chemical mentioned in the video actually has on the environment.


Kaz, I'm not sure why the burden of proof is on "chemtrail believers" as you call them as opposed to people like yourself and the government who dismiss the phenomenon. After all, the PTB (NWO) carried out 911 (you do believe that, correct?), they nuked Japan, spread depleted uranium all over the middle east and much of Europe during two wars and are doing the same in Afghanistan, tested radioactive devices on our own soldiers and general population and are responsible for wars infinitum. Oh, and let's not forget about the fluoride in your drinking water, mercury in your fillings and the GMO products you eat. Do you REALLY thing the PTB cares about the environment? Or, is it possible you are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and are merely kissing the butt of your NWO abusers? That being said, your post doesn't begin to address what I asked you, other than an out-of-hand dismissal of the whistleblower Kristen's test results. I don't see where you checked to see how her test results compared with tests from say wooded areas in the Pacific Northwest where there is very little industry. People have done tests in that area. Did you bother looking? So, I'll ask you once again to answer the questions you've ignored in my previous post along with a few new questions. Please answer each question.

1. Did you bother to look for air sample tests and results? (prior to my post of the air force whistle blower) I am sure you are aware of their existence so if you are going to make an argument why not post them here and point out the tests fallacies as I am sure you see them?

2. If you did search for air and soil test results did you also look for samples around the country for comparison?

3. If you didn't look for air and soil sample test results, why not?

4. What would you say if I provided you test results from around the country showing high levels of aluminum, barium and strontium?

5. Are you aware of the fact that many people around the country are doing oil and air sample tests for aluminum, barium and strontium?

6. What would it say about your knowledge of this topic or willingness to explore it objectively if you didn't even bother to look for air sample test results that do indeed exist regardless if you felt they proved nothing?

7. Is there any evidence that government bodies and private corporations are interested in Geoengineering? If so, name them. If you believe there are none, please state that claim as well.

8. Are there patents on geoengineering technologies? Please list those you are aware of. If you are aware of none, please state so. Btw, you still haven't fully answered this question because you haven't stated "there are no such patents that could be used for geoengineering" if that is indeed what you believe.

9. Does the government keep records on levels of metals in air and soil for safety standards?

10. Are you are of the Club Of Rome and their willingness to contrive issues that will be used to control the masses?

11. What to you have to say about the following statement from the Club Of Rome whose membership includes Al "global warming" Gore? (Now, don't think that I am claiming there is no global warming currently. What I DO believe is that the meme of "global warming" is being pushed as a cover story for Geoengineering the weather as a tool to help usher in the New WOrld Order and it's police state and any serious warming taking place is caused by geoengineering itself. In other words, when a geoengineered flash flood hits a town or area that has become a political force aware of 911 truth, Agenda 21, etc, the PTB and their media will blame the disaster on "global warming". "Global warming" will also be the cover story for Geoengineered droughts in Africa and Iran. That's the beauty of weather as a weapon; plausible deniability).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26753034/The-Fir...Revolution-Text Page 75
QUOTE
“In searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill…. All these dangers are caused by human intervention… The real enemy, then, is humanity itself,” states the report, which can be read in full at the end of this article.


12. How do you feel about private companies that try to get laws passed that they will in turn profit from?
Obama Intimately Tied To Carbon Trading Scam - President helped fund profiteers of carbon tax program he is now seeking to implement

http://www.prisonplanet.com/flashback-obam...ading-scam.html

13. Do you believe our news media to be free of government/military/corporate pressure?

14. Are you aware of Evelyn de Rothschild's recent purchase making him the majority stake holder of Weather Central news reporting? I'm sure it's just a coincidence. rolleyes.gif
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/01/31/roth...eather-central/

QUOTE
Evelyn de Rothschild and Lynn Forester de Rothschild said they are buying a majority stake in weather-data service Weather Central L.P., marking a significant expansion of the Rothschilds’ investments into media and information.


QUOTE
The couple’s private-investment company, E.L. Rothschild LLC, is slated to acquire 70% of Weather Central, which provides weather forecasting services and graphics to local television stations and TV programs such as ABC’s “Good Morning America.”


15. Has our government ever used weather as a weapon?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/weather-warfa...ic-warfare/7561
QUOTE
Environmental modification techniques have been applied by the US military for more than half a century. US mathematician John von Neumann, in liaison with the US Department of Defense, started his research on weather modification in the late 1940s at the height of the Cold War and foresaw ‘forms of climatic warfare as yet unimagined’. During the Vietnam war, cloud-seeding techniques were used, starting in 1967 under Project Popeye, the objective of which was to prolong the monsoon season and block enemy supply routes along the Ho Chi Minh Trail.


This post has been edited by Quest: Feb 16 2014, 01:26 AM
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