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Penny Elgas Plane Debris, Anybody know which part it is?

onesliceshort
post Nov 14 2009, 11:39 AM
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Can anybody 100% identify the piece of aircraft handed in to the Smithsonian Museum?


Detractors claim it was a wing tip, to back up the lightpole saga.
Yet in a recorded interview claims it is part of the tail.

http://www.pumpshitout.com/audio/pe_060509.mp3

QUOTE
HILL: ¨And you said you saw it... you saw it hit one of the light poles?¨

ELGAS: ¨ No, I didn't see it hit. I heard on the news that it hit a light pole. But that's how I ended up with a piece of the plane, is that it clipped the pole. The tail -- that was actually the tail that a turned into the Smithsonian. A piece of the tail.¨



Sorry I´m totally green on deciphering airplane specs though I did notice that the tail of the Boeing was a composite of ´poxies and graphite´. Are the wings ,particularly the tips, made up of the same material?
Can anybody tell by the shape and rivet holes whether it is from the wings or tail?

Is it even the correct colour? Unless the other side is blue.

I believe it could be a vital piece of physical evidence in that it could help pinpoint where the plane entered Route 27 and the fact that if it IS a tail fragment, how was it supposed to have hit the lightpoles?
I believe Penny Elgas described it as ´the tail´ because she was told so at the Smithsonian Museum yet on their site they describe it as a ´fragment´ of Flight 77.

Any info appreciated guys.
Cheers
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onesliceshort
post Dec 12 2013, 12:01 PM
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IIRC, these are the polymer composite sections of a 757(?)



We can narrow it down to those sections with multiple layers (at least three layers anyway).

The wing to body fairings are multiple layered, but they are light grey.
The nosecone is white but it only has one layer (graphite)

According to the manual linked to above "all composites" are painted with light grey protective paint.

I actually used to work with kevlar, and I think that I recognize it at the bottom left hand corner of the image (yellow).


Here are some additional images of a Boeing 767-316F flap fairing damaged by a bird strike (you can see the kevlar):

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/t...ad.main/184925/

QUOTE
Graphic pictures of a bird strike to a composite (Kevlar/aramid + nomex core) flap fairing. Damage found during walk-around.


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/miamiair/8268A.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/miamiair/8268E.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/miamiair/8268C.jpg


Repaired (note the similarity of white sheen to the Elgas piece):

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/miamiair/8268N.jpg


That piece didn't come from "N644AA" according to what I've seen so far.

But I would love a Boeing tech person to confirm it.

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NP1Mike
post Dec 12 2013, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 12 2013, 11:01 AM) *
IIRC, these are the polymer composite sections of a 757(?)



We can narrow it down to those sections with multiple layers (at least three layers anyway).

The wing to body fairings are multiple layered, but they are light grey.
The nosecone is white but it only has one layer (graphite)

...That piece didn't come from "N644AA" according to what I've seen so far.

But I would love a Boeing tech person to confirm it.


If I was contacting a Boeing tech, I wouldn't lead him/her on a wild goose chase.
The overwhelming consensus is that a 757/767 did not hit the Pentagon.
I would find the most likely drone craft(s) that would have hit it and ask if the piece matches anything on them.
A much smaller aircraft; therefore a much smaller part to search for.

However it may prove helpful if they could positively state that the piece did not come from a 757.
But if you think about it, what working employee of Boeing would stake his/her job/life by doing so?

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onesliceshort
post Dec 14 2013, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Dec 12 2013, 08:29 PM) *
If I was contacting a Boeing tech, I wouldn't lead him/her on a wild goose chase.
The overwhelming consensus is that a 757/767 did not hit the Pentagon.
I would find the most likely drone craft(s) that would have hit it and ask if the piece matches anything on them.
A much smaller aircraft; therefore a much smaller part to search for.

However it may prove helpful if they could positively state that the piece did not come from a 757.
But if you think about it, what working employee of Boeing would stake his/her job/life by doing so?


All that's needed is confirmation that this piece didn't come from "N644AA".

The aircraft seen entering the Pentagon basin was on the wrong trajectory to cause the directional damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o
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NP1Mike
post Dec 14 2013, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 14 2013, 03:09 PM) *
All that's needed is confirmation that this piece didn't come from "N644AA".

The aircraft seen entering the Pentagon basin was on the wrong trajectory to cause the directional damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o



I'm with you 100% on this.
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Posts in this topic
- onesliceshort   Penny Elgas Plane Debris   Nov 14 2009, 11:39 AM
- - tezzajw   Good thread. Good questions. Hopefully someone h...   Nov 14 2009, 11:06 PM
- - DoYouEverWonder   www.sott.net/signs/Pentagon_Parody.htm Supposed...   Nov 15 2009, 07:59 AM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Nov 15 2009, 12...   Nov 15 2009, 09:51 AM
- - SPreston   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Nov 14 2009, 10:39...   Nov 15 2009, 10:52 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (SPreston @ Nov 15 2009, 03:52 PM) ...   Nov 15 2009, 11:11 PM
- - onesliceshort   I checked out the site that DYEW linked to for tha...   Nov 16 2009, 08:48 AM
|- - DoYouEverWonder   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Nov 16 2009, 07:48...   Nov 16 2009, 09:29 AM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Nov 16 2009, 02...   Nov 16 2009, 08:16 PM
- - tinynate   as far as penny elgas, I edited this and posted he...   Nov 23 2010, 07:25 PM
- - 23investigator   Sorry, not certain who a fast reply goes to. Perha...   Nov 29 2010, 05:16 AM
- - onesliceshort   Going back to the original question of this thread...   Dec 9 2013, 11:46 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE Can anybody see where this alleged debris, h...   Dec 11 2013, 10:08 AM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 11 2013, 09:08...   Dec 11 2013, 05:15 PM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Dec 11 2013, 10:15 PM) O...   Dec 12 2013, 11:25 AM
- - onesliceshort   IIRC, these are the polymer composite sections of ...   Dec 12 2013, 12:01 PM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 12 2013, 11:01...   Dec 12 2013, 03:29 PM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Dec 12 2013, 08:29 PM) I...   Dec 14 2013, 04:09 PM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 14 2013, 03:09...   Dec 14 2013, 05:41 PM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 14 2013, 03:09...   Dec 14 2013, 09:24 PM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Dec 15 2013, 02:24 AM) I...   Dec 15 2013, 10:14 AM
||- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 15 2013, 09:14...   Dec 15 2013, 06:40 PM
|- - amazed!   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Dec 14 2013, 09:24 PM) I...   Dec 15 2013, 10:46 AM
- - onesliceshort   It's like talking to a fucking brick wall. ...   Dec 15 2013, 11:12 AM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Dec 15 2013, 10:12...   Dec 15 2013, 06:52 PM
- - onesliceshort   Mike, that last comment of mine wasn't directe...   Dec 15 2013, 09:23 PM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE Going back to the original question of this ...   Feb 18 2014, 12:34 PM
- - NP1Mike   I can see where you are trying to go with this OSS...   Feb 18 2014, 05:55 PM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE Given the outer white paint, this pretty muc...   Feb 18 2014, 10:06 PM
- - onesliceshort   Here's a Boeing (767) before the composites ar...   Feb 18 2014, 10:54 PM
- - onesliceshort   Here's another image of this piece without the...   Feb 20 2014, 12:28 PM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 20 2014, 11:28...   Feb 20 2014, 04:48 PM
- - onesliceshort   Hi Mike QUOTE Doesn't the nose cone in this p...   Feb 20 2014, 05:08 PM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 20 2014, 04:08...   Feb 20 2014, 05:25 PM
- - onesliceshort   The nosecone is a slightly lighter grey but it...   Feb 20 2014, 10:48 PM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 20 2014, 09:48...   Feb 20 2014, 11:12 PM
||- - 23investigator   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 21 2014, 12:42 PM) O...   Feb 21 2014, 05:52 AM
||- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (23investigator @ Feb 21 2014, 10:5...   Feb 21 2014, 08:07 AM
||- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 21 2014, 07:07...   Feb 21 2014, 09:31 PM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 21 2014, 03:48...   Mar 8 2014, 11:26 AM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Mar 8 2014, 04:26 ...   Mar 8 2014, 11:40 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (b) A Boeing expert on plane construction of...   Feb 21 2014, 10:24 PM
- - onesliceshort   I've run out of options as to where the Elgas ...   Mar 8 2014, 11:52 AM
- - kawika   My apologies if this has been covered already. Wh...   May 2 2014, 04:37 PM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (kawika @ May 2 2014, 09:37 PM) My ...   May 2 2014, 06:08 PM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 2 2014, 05:08 ...   May 2 2014, 06:15 PM
- - Alpha66   Nice work, it can be said, that at least in the Pe...   Apr 20 2015, 04:32 PM
- - amazed!   QUOTE (Alpha66 @ Apr 20 2015, 04:32 PM) N...   May 22 2015, 05:03 PM
- - Alpha66   QUOTE (amazed! @ May 22 2015, 05:03 P...   May 23 2015, 01:05 PM


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