I Was Just Doing My Job! Options

[rob balsamo]

im sitting here watching ABC about the shock experement where they question someone strapped to a chair and if they get the question wrong. .they get zapped.. .each time the voltage progresses.

The one giving the zap doesnt know its an experiment in following orders. Im sure many of you have heard of this experiment before.. but it just goes to show how people will follow orders regardless of conscience.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx...e=ucepisodelist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[conspiracy_chest...]

Primetime: Basic Instincts is on tonight at 10:00 on ABC.

Not to be shown again. (until....?)

This post has been edited by conspiracy_chestnut: Jan 4 2007, 01:18 AM

[paranoia]

thats funny jdx, cuz i was watching it and thinking the same thing. specifically when they mentioned (and showed) the one woman who displayed/felt absolutely NO EMOTION as she followed orders to shock the testee, i thought about how some people can act without conscience when they are doing what they are told to do.

you see movies like "universal soldier" gloryifying the physical aspect of what a perfect soldier (of the future) would be, but the tomorrow's (and today's) perfect soldiers are actually those who are able to precisely follow commands without any questions/objections and without any regard for the human toll of their actions. btw- i dont necessarily mean people on the battlefront when i say soldier, i actually mean anyone who is working under the command of superiors and doing tasks that amount to the death, destruction, and oppression of the masses.

dont get me wrong, there is no room in war for insubordination or arguing with given orders, thus it is a necessary evil in maintaing the war machine that keeps the world "balanced". but it is always alarming and amazing to me how some people feel nothing when faced with the sufferring of other human beings, in this case (of the ABC experiment) where they are directly causing and privy to the suffering created by their actions.


nowhere is this more a part of everyday life than here where i live here next to the nation's capital (wash. dc) where almost everyone around me is in some way (directly or indirectly) an accomplice or working piece of that war machine. from missile salesmen, to scientists, doctors, and accountants, to everyone in between, from administrative asstistants to clerical office workers, this town is full of people following orders and not giving a sh*t about who gets hurt as a result. im not even talking about the non-civilians around here (military), cuz they afterall, are directly involved in and have a vested interest in keeping the war machine going, but even the civilians are becoming well trained, well paid, perfectly programmed, morally bankrupt, drones.


sad, scary world indeed.
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)


anyway, sorry for the rant! regarding the ABC experiment itself: it wouldnt have taken me 2 minutes to figure out that the real subject of the experiment was actually the one pressing the button, not the person being shocked. furthermore i would have known that the guy being "shocked" was faking, maybe it was his poor "acting", but it was all too obvious that he wasnt actually being electrocuted.

honestly though, i wouldnt have any issues with pressing buttons and shocking people if they were partcipating in the "experiment" on their own volition. if they signed up to be shocked, then shocked they would be! sorry pal if the electrical dose you receive is too high, but thats on you, not me. so my conscience would be at ease in the confines of ABC's poorly put together version of the experiment, no problem. but in the real world i believe in karma and consequence, so i try to never to press people's buttons or cause them pain, unless of course they are driving like idiots, especially tailgaters. but thats a whole other story.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[KILL YOUR TV!]

excerpt from "The Human Behaviour Experiments"



This post has been edited by KILL YOUR TV!: Jan 4 2007, 06:41 AM

[conspiracy_chest...]

dont get me wrong, there is no room in war for insubordination or arguing with given orders, thus it is a necessary evil in maintaing the war machine that keeps the world "balanced".

I think they have precedent and actual law now that, in the military, you do not have to obey an illegal or unlawful command.

It gets a bit sticky under "time of war", and you better be right if you refuse the order.
And even if you are right, you might 'pay the consequences', regardless.
(as in, don't plan on having a career in the military, if not worse)

This post has been edited by conspiracy_chestnut: Jan 4 2007, 07:09 AM

[Cary]

I think they have precedent and actual law now that, in the military, you do not have to obey an illegal or unlawful command.

Yes, in the Uniform Code of Military Justice a soldier is obligated to disobey illegal orders. He/she doesn't have the option of obeying or disobeying an illegal order. I was just following orders won't hunt in a Courts Martial.

http://electroniciraq.net/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/6/265

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

[tocarm]

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself (herself) THE ACCOMPLICE of liars, forgers and MURDERERS."
- Charles Peguy - French Catholic writier - 18th Century

That broadcast regarding the human responses in "following orders" in that SHOCK EXPERIMENT is currently taking place all across this US nation of ours.

250 million US citizens are in 'The Big Room' consisting of the 48 contiguous States plus Alaska and Hawaii.

There are these AWFUL AGONIZING SCREAMS & PLEAS TO STOP THE TORTURE coming from the minds, hearts, souls and spirits of MILLIONS of people in the Middle East (e.g. Iraq & Palestine) as well as Central Asia (Afghanistan).

The 250 million US citizens 'in the room' see that the 'Voltage On/Off Switches' have been ALL turned on from left to right.

There is this 'Decider', this 'Authority Figure' who is telling 250 million US citizens that 'The Experiment' MUST GO ON - that 'The Experiment' MUST follow the course.

And these Voltage On/Off Switches are located all over the United States of America. There are On/Off Switches in the halls of the US Congress, the chambers of the US Senate. There are On/Off Switches in every State Capitol building of every last State of the USA. There are On/Off Switches at each and every TV, Radio broadcasting station's "News Anchor" desk. There are On/Off Switches in the Editor's office of every last US newspaper and magazine of ANY sorts and type.
There are On/Off Switches in the Dean's Office of every last US college and university.

Why...there are SO MANY 'ON/OFF SWITCHES' on viritually every city block of every last major metropolitan center in the USA. There are 'On/Off Switches' in every last Federal Building, every last Federal Agency, every last Coporate office of EVERY LAST US corporation listed and traded on the NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ, etc.

People are SCREAMING and PLEADING and SUFFERING and DYING minute by minute, hour by hour, day in and day out in places like Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan - and not only do the 250 million US citizens get TO HEAR these human screams, wailings, pleadings - the 250 million US citizens get TO SEE these people who are screaming, wailing and pleading for this TORTURE IMPOSED ON THEM >>TO STOP<< via regular and repeated television images on their brand spanking new plasma TV sets via their 'Nightly News Broadcasts'.

And all of these people with this Voltage On/Off Switch available TO THEM right where they are, where they work, where they play, where they dine, where they take their recreation and leisure - NONE OF THEM - will so much dare to LESSEN THE VOLTAGE by making the personal (and moral) effort of lifting so much as a finger of their to 'flip their Switch' to >>OFF!<<

And the BONEHEADS who I have to live with here in these United States of America actually have the GAUL, actually have the AUDACITY, actually have the IMPIETY to open their mouths and either say or sing the words:

>>>> "GOD BLESS AMERICA!" <<<<

Their "pastors", their "bible preachers", their "televengelists" have NO INTENTION of telling their "flocks" that 'Their Bibles' contain the following written Words:

"Whatsoever YOU DO (or DIDN'T DO) to the least of these (Iraqi children, for example) you've done it TO ME!"

Now THAT' what my very, very 'ROMAN CATHOLIC/WHORE OF BABYLON' JERUSALEM BIBLE says. Funny thing...lots and lots of Protestant/Fundamentalist bibles say that exact same thing. See?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...46;&version=31;

Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Tom & Faye Baker, Dr. Schuller, evreyone at Trinity Broadcasting Network, everyone at Christian Broadcasting Network - my, the list of "pastors galore" goes on and on with Rev. Jesse Jackson, Rev. Sharpton...makes you have to stop and think whether their title of 'REV.' doesn't stand for 'Reverend', but rather stands for "REVENUE'.

- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Jan 4 2007, 01:14 PM

[Method]

excerpt from "The Human Behaviour Experiments"

Thank you for sharing that video clip KYT.

[Slick]

I remember studying this experiment a while back.. It really puts things in perspective!

[conspiracy_chest...]

Another thought along these lines is this is what I meant when I mentioned elsewhere that, "The primary cause of war atrocities during time of war is war itself."

People like to pretend that they are civilized and pacifistic and non-violent and and good and decent. (and, to fairly high levels and degrees and in most ways, we all are)

And they don't (like to) think that they are capable of the types of actions we sometimes see in war, or on our streets every day. (in the news)

But the reality is that it doesn't really take much to put someone "over the edge."

Just the right circumstances at the right time. (and are you feeling lucky today?)

We are just lucky that we are able to exist in a country and culture and society in the U.S. and some/many other countries where we are rarely, if ever, put into the right circumstance.

It's like most police officers never even draw their weapon during the 20+ years on the job. And if they do, they never fire it. And even fewer actually hurt or kill someone. (that's kind of an aside example)

And that kind of messes with our minds, giving us false sense of who and what we are and what we are all capable of.

Like I always point out to people — we all think that stuff "happens to the other guy."

But someone has to be the other guy, and the people that things happen to also used to think that it would only happen to the other guy, until they became the other guy. (whatever events may happen to someone under this general circumstance)

There are also similarities to things like "mob rule", "mass hysteria", etc.

It's really important for people to understand these basic psychological traits of the human animal so we better understand ourselves and other people and so the reason why they do (or say) things makes more sense and isn't so mysterious.

This post has been edited by conspiracy_chestnut: Jan 6 2007, 04:43 AM

[waterdancer]

I read an interesting (to me at least) article in Scientific American awhile back. The Psychology of Tyranny (archive). The authors figured out a way to redo a variation of the infamous Stanford Prison experiment in a way that would be ethically safeguarded. Interesting results.

[Sanders]

This thread Linked
Library topic:Detainment & Torture
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...dpost&p=4988659

interesting thread

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/teach.gif)

[e-dog]

im sitting here watching ABC about the shock experement where they question someone strapped to a chair and if they get the question wrong. .they get zapped.. .each time the voltage progresses.

The one giving the zap doesnt know its an experiment in following orders. Im sure many of you have heard of this experiment before.. but it just goes to show how people will follow orders regardless of conscience.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx...e=ucepisodelist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

LOL this was used in my Previous exam... We got to read a article about someone who wanted to test how easy it was to let ppl follow your orders.

The question was "why do you think ordinary people follow orders so easily even if it involves hurting other human beings"


IT--

This post has been edited by e-dog: Jan 6 2007, 10:18 AM

[tocarm]

"Am I my brother's keeper???" - Cain to God after murdering his brother Abel.

250 million US citizens as well as the other 5.75 human beings on planet earth need to understand that the CORRECT ANSWER is simply a resounding 'YES!'

My own trite saying (to myself) when considering/contemplating these "deep, dark, mysterious" things regarding such things as 'religion' and 'politics' and 'philosophy' and 'theology' and virtually anything else I try to come to understand goes like this:

"The MORE OBVIOUS something is, the more likely it will be OVERLOOKED."

Take our crazy, royally screwed up US Nation. If we were to ask 100 Senators and 435 Members of US Congress the simple civics question:

"What are the (proper/correct) FUNCTIONS OF THE STATE??" (As a 'low life rank and file' US citizen, I can tell them!)

With what has/is/will be going on with respect to the PURPOSE and DIRECTION of our 'U.S. Nation STATE' - it should be rather 'OBVIOUS' that the entire US Government and all those directly associated with it HAVEN'T THE FOGGIEST CLUE!

And FORGET even attempting to ask all of them the One Essential Question of any and all human beings alive on planet earth:

"What is the MEANING and the PURPOSE FOR living this human life of ours?

Would anyone go in for 'BRAIN SURGERY' to a person, to any people, who hadn't the FOGGIEST CLUE as what is SUPPOSED to be in your head, in your skull???

- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Jan 6 2007, 11:07 AM

[gideon524]

Another example of people behaving like sheep, kind of similar to the shock experiment, is the line test. In don't remeber the specific details as I learned this back when I was in college, but a group of people were shown two lines, one longer than the other. The control group of the experiment were told before hand to say the short line was actually longer than the other. The rest of the people were not told to say this, and instead were asked to say what they truly believed. I think the ratio of controlled subjects to regular participants was like 3:1. Amazingly, under the influence of the control group saying the short line was longer, many of the regular participants, due to peer pressure, even though the short line was obviously shorter than the other, and even though they knew better, said that the short line was actually the longer of the two. Just because the majority of the group said the short line was longer, the others followed suit. It is a perfect example of the sheep syndrome and how people desire to be just like everybody else in order to fit in. Add that same scenario in with just doing your job or following orders and you've got a literally deadly combination. Case in point, the holocaust.