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Pentagon Damage Analysis, A closer look

onesliceshort
post Feb 25 2013, 05:05 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 25 2013, 05:54 PM) *
For the record, I'm not casting aspertions on these firefighters (I actually think Wallace was one of the most honest in detail) but on the gatecam.

@Robert

I'll post more on what he described vs what you claim to see in the videos.

Peace.


From Alan Wallace's testimony —

Regarding the 90° angle of the fire engine to the alleged impact zone


http://web.archive.org/web/20060225201958/...xts/Wallace.txt

QUOTE
Mark, Dennis, and I had our turn-out gear either on the crash truck or in the station. About 0830 I decided to pull the crash truck outside of the fire station and place it in a position more accessible to the heliport landing site. The truck was then parked perpendicular to the Pentagon with the rear of the truck 15-20 feet from the west wall of the Pentagon and the truck facing west, towards the heliport pad. The right side of the truck was approximately 30 feet from the fire station’s apparatus door opening. (I forgot to mention the Ford Van we normally use for transport between Fort Myer and the Pentagon. It is a 15 passenger vehicle which was parked west of the fire station facing north, with it’s rear about 10 feet north of the apparatus end of the fire station, approximately 6 feet from the side of the fire station.)


Wallace and Skipper statement on the alleged impact

QUOTE
So many people think Mark and I watched the plane hit the building. We did NOT. We only saw it approach for an instant. I would estimate not longer than half a second. Others didn’t understand why we didn’t hear it sooner. We did not hear it until right after we saw it. I estimate that the plane hit the building only 1½-2 seconds after we saw it. What I am saying is, immediately after we saw it, we heard the noise; the engines, I’m sure. I described that as a terrible noise – loud, scary, and horrible.



The gatecam contradiction (note - if it were a resolution issue with the camera, the figures seen running along the path beside the facade in the gatecam contradict this)

QUOTE
At the time we saw the plane I said, “LET’S GO!” and Mark and I ran away from the area. I turned and ran to my right, going north. (I do not remember which way Mark went, since I did not see him until I crawled out from under the Ford Van.)

[....]

At this time, I noticed a lot of heat and decided to crawl to the end of the van. Very soon the heat was unbearable and I decided to get out from under the van and get farther away from the impact site. It was then that I saw Mark Skipper to my left – out in the field 50-75 feet away. He was standing, looking back to the impact site and seemed to be swinging his arms. I immediately ran over to him to ask if he was OK. He said he was, and then said, “I’m glad you saw the airplane!” I said, “Get your gear on – we have a lot of work to do; I’m going to the fire truck.”


The engine of the firetruck was still operational - after allegedly being hit by an aircraft "engine"?

QUOTE
I ran about 30 yards back to the damaged crash truck, stepping carefully not to slip on the burning debris covering the ground. I arrived at the right cab door, opened it and climbed in. I grabbed the radio and put the headset on, then jumped over the radios and into the driver’s seat. I immediately pushed the 2 engine start buttons and the engine started, to my amazement. I thought if I could pull the fire truck away from the Pentagon and put it in a left turn, I could direct the roof turret nozzle into the impact site using the foam and water on board the truck. I then pushed off the emergency brake and pulled the transmission selector into the drive range and tramped on the accelerator (I still couldn’t believe the engine had started).


The alleged suspicious activity around the fire engine - was actually Wallace

QUOTE
I then began to assist the fire fighting crews. I got a larger nozzle tip for the attack team and got 50 feet of 4 inch hose off Engine 161 so we could move the deluge closer to the Pentagon. Another project I undertook was to begin removing all equipment off the crash truck: the 3rd SCBA, all the extra air bottles, power cords, flood lights, all the 1¾ inch hose (200 feet of it), tools and fire extinguishers.


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elreb
post Feb 25 2013, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE
Alan Wallace usually worked out of the Fort Myer fire station, but on Sept. 11 he was one of three firefighters assigned to the Pentagon's heliport.

Along with crew members Mark Skipper and Dennis Young, Wallace arrived around 7:30 in the morning.

After a quick breakfast, the 55-year-old firefighter moved the station's fire truck out of the firehouse.

President Bush had used the heliport the day before: he'd motorcaded to the Pentagon, and then flown to Andrews Air Force Base for a trip to Florida.

Bush was scheduled to return to the Pentagon helipad later on Tuesday

Let me get this straight.

Bush was scheduled to land at the Pentagon on 911 Practically next to the alleged crash site.

So where were all the enhanced security measures? [At breakfast?]
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onesliceshort
post Feb 25 2013, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Feb 25 2013, 10:21 PM) *
Let me get this straight.

Bush was scheduled to land at the Pentagon on 911 Practically next to the alleged crash site.

So where were all the enhanced security measures? [At breakfast?]


Exactly. This was Bush's (over exaggerated) alibi IMO.

"How could it have been me? I nearly died." rolleyes.gif

From the same link above

QUOTE
As I said, we were expecting President Bush about Noon, which would be a Code One Stand-By. In such situations, one of the problems I see at the heliport is that there are too many people there. Plus, there are many vehicles, including Secret Service, Pentagon SWAT, U.S. Park Police, D.C. Cops on motorcycles, and the two Presidential Limousines. And, some of these vehicles even park in front of the fire station apparatus door, blocking the fire truck from exiting the building! That is why I wanted the crash truck out of the station and parked in a good location, for easy access to the heliport in case of an emergency.


Roosevelt Roberts, the "second plane in South Parking" witness, was on his way to the heliport for Bush's alleged arrival.

Sean Boger who was actually in the heliport tower above the station recalled a "dog and pony show" in the area the day before the event. The day before, the generator trailer was also changed of position.

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Feb 25 2013, 10:06 PM
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onesliceshort
post Feb 25 2013, 10:23 PM
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Edit added — imageshack is pissing me about already. If you want to see hi res or larger images that are linked to, click on the link, click off and then click on the same link again.
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onesliceshort
post Mar 29 2013, 07:40 AM
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From another thread but very much related to the damage analysis:

QUOTE
There's another problem with the "passenger strapped to the seat" scenario (bar the claim that people were actually allowed inside a highly unstable area that was also close to collapse and which was intermittently ablaze for 72 hours).

AFAIK aircraft seats are framed in groups of two and three.



As for the alleged victim remains accumulated at the "punchout hole" this is the earliest image (that I know of) of AE Drive after the explosion



I also had a look through those gore sites where human body parts can be seen and even the recently released images of the aftermath in Manhattan on 9/11 show flesh and blood over the sidewalk and streets hundreds of feet away from the towers. I've seen no evidence of body parts or blood at the end of the 320ft path the Pentagon aircraft allegedly took.


The area where the majority of parts were allegedly found (C Ring) was also where the ASCE Report had allegedly recorded temperatures of up to 1000°C for over an hour — cremation point. And DNA was extracted from these alleged tissues in this area?


And the claims about planting or manipulating evidence is in no way unfounded (you've hit the nail right on the head P IMO). Apologies beforehand for the copy and paste fest but I had to dig hard to find these notes!

QUOTE
"Chad Stamps is a firefighter with Rescue 104 of the Arlington County Fire Department. [National Fire and Rescue, 5/2002] Along with his crew, he has been fighting fires on the second floor of the Pentagon's outer E Ring. With fires burning around him, he is astonished to see another crew walk past, carrying two packs of hose line, apparently on its way to fight fires elsewhere in the Pentagon. Describing this incident, authors Patrick Creed and Rick Newman will point out: "Firefighters are trained never to go through a fire without putting it out, since it might seal off your exit. You might as well walk into a burning room and lock the door behind you. Yet there they went." Seeing the crew passing by, Stamps thinks, "This is totally disjointed." [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 137] The odd behavior of this crew is perhaps notable because there is at least one reported incident of fake firefighters being caught at the Pentagon following the attack there: On September 12, three people will be arrested who are not firefighters, yet who are dressed in firefighting gear (see September 12, 2001). [Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 170]]



September 12, 2001: People Disguised as Firefighters Arrested at Pentagon
The Defense Protective Service (DPS)--the law enforcement agency that guards the Pentagon--arrests three people at the Pentagon who are dressed in firefighting gear but are not firefighters. Further details of who these people are and why they are at the Pentagon are unstated.
[Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 170]..



"Johnny" - Arlington firefighter Bob Gray is introduced by his colleague Bobby Beer to a man wearing a hard hat. Beer introduces the man only as "Johnny," and adds, "He's our go-between with PenRen [the Pentagon Renovation Program], and he knows some of the military guys too." Although "Johnny" is not wearing any identifying badge or ID, he seems knowledgeable, appears "taut and serious, with a purposeful military stance," and even introduces Gray and Beer to a couple of friends of his who say they work for Special Forces. Johnny says if Gray and Beer need anything from the military, he can help. As a security perimeter has now been set up around the crash site, Gray assumes Johnny must be there officially. [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 367-368]

Sept 14
Johnny's disappearance appears to follow an error he had made after firefighters discovered two bodies inside the Pentagon's E Ring. Johnny mistakenly called the truck used to remove bodies to the temporary morgue prematurely, before FBI agents had the chance to photograph and document the remains. Gray and Beer start to wonder if Johnny in fact had no official standing, and was an impostor]


Police Battalion HQs (503d MP Bn) from Fort Bragg, NC (and two active military police companies from Fort Stewart, GA, and Fort Bragg, NC). Active duty units remained in support of DPS beyond December 2001.
Another unanticipated problem which arose was the number of occupants who felt a need to get back into their areas to retrieve professional papers and personal effects. Some groups tried to circumvent the security officers to get back into their offices. Several people, including one general officer was taken into custody.


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html

The Flight Data Recorder (FDR) was found early in the morning of September 14, 2001. Government reports indicate the FDR was found at the entrance hole of the collapsed E ring. "...the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long....
They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open. They cordoned off the area and called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board who confirmed the find: the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 77. “We wanted to find live victims,” says Burkhammer. But this was a consolation prize. “Finding the black box gave us a little boost,” he says.


Subsequently, FBI photographer Jennifer Hill finds the cockpit voice recorder in a stack of rubble while assisting searchers. Thirty minutes later, a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) expert locates the flight data recorder in the same area. [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 396-397 and 400-402].


But Allyn Kilsheimer, a structural engineer who helps coordinate the emergency response at the Pentagon, later claims he had “found the black box,” which, he says, he had “stepped on… by accident.” [GW Magazine, 3/2002; Popular Mechanics, 3/2005].


Washington FBI agent Christopher Combs says, “Somebody almost threw [the black boxes] away because they didn’t know what they looked like.” [Disaster News Network, 10/30/2002]


The Flight Data Recorder (FDR) was found early in the morning of September 14, 2001. Government reports indicate the FDR was found at the entrance hole of the collapsed E ring. "...the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long.... Pentagon officials said the recorders, also called "black boxes" were found around 3:40 a.m. under mounds of wreckage in the collapsed part of the building.." (MSNBC Sept 28). "Dick Bridges, a spokesman for Arlington County, Va...said the recorders were found 'right where the plane came into the building.'" (PBS - Sept 14).
However, The ASCE Building Performance Report and a new book published by the Dept Of Defense claims the FDR was found at the exit hole in the C-Ring. "[FDR] found in the building near the hole in the inner C Ring wall leading to A-E Drive."
Why are there conflicts in the government story of where the FDR was found? Further, where are the pictures of the '"intact cockpit seat [and] floor" where the two black boxes appeared? Flight Data Recorders and Cockpit Voice Recorders are located in the tail of an aircraft. Not the cockpit. Where are the pictures of the "black boxes" laying in the rubble prior to being removed as is with every other aircraft accident investigation?
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onesliceshort
post Mar 29 2013, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE
This was a memorial service a year after the Pentagon attack at Arlington Cemetery for the "remains of the unidentified" attended by family members amd heads of state.









What's wrong with those pictures? The casket was empty.

QUOTE
Debra Burlingame, sister of Charles Burlingame, the pilot of the plane that was driven into the Pentagon by terrorist hijackers, said she was confused by the report. She said she attended a ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery at which unidentified 9/11 remains were buried in an engraved casket.

“They were treated with great respect and great ceremony,” Burlingame said. “The Department of Defense was exceedingly sensitive and treated those unidentified remains with great respect. ... I would want to know more.”

The Abizaid report primarily focused on management reforms to a “dysfunctional, isolated” Dover mortuary chain of command. It cited the 9/11 matter while explaining the history of problems at Dover that came to light last year through complaints from whistle-blowers who revealed the mishandling of war remains.

The practice at Dover of cremating partial remains and sending them to a landfill began shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, the report said, “when several portions of remains from the Pentagon attack and the Shanksville, Pa., crash site could not be tested or identified.”


The terrorist-hijacked airliner that slammed into the west side of the Pentagon killed 184 people, and the plane that crashed in a field near Shanksville killed 40.

The Abizaid report said that in line with Dover’s policy, “cremated portions were then placed in sealed containers that were provided to a biomedical waste disposal” company under Air Force contract. “Per the biomedical waste contract at that time, the contractor then transported these containers and incinerated them.” The report said Dover authorities assumed that after incineration “nothing remained.”

But a Dover management “query” found that “there was some residual material following incineration and that the contractor was disposing of it in a landfill.” It added that use of the landfill was not disclosed in the waste disposal contract. “We don’t think it should have happened,” Abizaid told reporters.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/201...11_victims.html


One very real possibility is that an already corrupt, under extreme pressure (and more than likely infiltrated) forensics lab such as Dover was ordered to take some steam out of the pressure cooker by claiming a near 100% success rate in "identifying" alleged passenger remains that in all likelihood never existed. And that the honest, blue collar employees went with the "let's ease the family pain" angle with the only necessary planted items being "personal belongings" and/or charred remains beyond recognition which could very well have belonged to the Pentagon occupant victims.

Remember that it was claimed that no alleged passenger remains had been identified until after the FBI had taken over the process. Not so much a mass planting of body parts and tissue but a pass the buck manouevre in case the shit hit the fan. The "National Security" card.

Just look at those images above. Imagine making the claim that the casket was empty before the admission was made. It's all a facade.
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onesliceshort
post Apr 30 2013, 11:28 AM
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Just goong to bump this for the heck of it.
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