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Peak Oil Revisited

Timothy Osman
post Jan 18 2008, 04:59 AM
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I have trouble understanding this whole Oil thing in a geopolitical way, On the one hand you have the West behaving in a way that would make peak oil seem definite, on the other hand you have the Russians seemingly oblivious to it and happily pumping away.
This article from the Asia times makes sense to me.

QUOTE
The 2003 arrest of Russian Mikhail Khodorkovsky, of Yukos Oil, took place just before he could sell a dominant stake in Yukos to ExxonMobil after a private meeting with Cheney. Had Exxon gotten the stake, it would have had control of the world's largest resource of geologists and engineers trained in the abiotic techniques of deep drilling.

Since 2003, Russian scientific sharing of knowledge has markedly lessened. Offers in the early 1990s to share knowledge with US and other oil geophysicists were met with cold rejection, according to American geophysicists involved.

Why then the high-risk war to control Iraq? For a century, US and allied Western oil giants have controlled world oil via control of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Nigeria. Today, as many giant fields are declining, the companies see the state-controlled oilfields of Iraq and Iran as the largest remaining base of cheap, easy oil.

With the huge demand for oil from China and now India, it becomes a geopolitical imperative for the United States to take direct military control of those Middle East reserves as fast as possible. Cheney came to the job of vice president from Halliburton Corp, the world's largest oil-geophysical-services company. The only potential threat to that US control of oil just happens to lie inside Russia and with the now-state-controlled Russian energy giants.

According to Kenney, Russian geophysicists used the theories of brilliant German scientist Alfred Wegener fully 30 years before Western geologists "discovered" Wegener in the 1960s. In 1915, Wegener published the seminal text The Origin of Continents and Oceans, which suggested an original unified landmass or Pangaea more than 200 million years ago that separated into present continents by what he called continental drift.

Up to the 1960s, supposed US scientists such as Dr Frank Press, the White House science adviser, referred to Wegener as "lunatic". Geologists at the end of the 1960s were forced to eat their words as Wegener offered the only interpretation that allowed them to discover the vast oil resources of the North Sea.

Perhaps in some decades Western geologists will rethink their mythology of fossil origins and realize what the Russians have known since the 1950s. In the meantime, Moscow holds a massive energy trump card.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/II27Ag02.html
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amazed!
post Jan 18 2008, 08:21 PM
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Massive energy trump card INDEED!
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CocaineImportAge...
post Jan 19 2008, 01:17 AM
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...i read somewhere... that Venezuela has more oil reserves now... than they estimated the whole planet had in 1984!... peak oil is a myth!

War and "Peak Oil"
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lunk
post Jan 19 2008, 01:26 AM
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Ugh. Oil is carbon and hydrogen chemically combined.
You don't need a dinosaur as a precursor to create it.
Crude oil is made in the Earth under great pressure and
temperature. South africa used to "crack" coal to make
gasoline. You don't need life to make methane, it is a
naturally made substance.

This being the case, the only reason to war in the middle
East would be to make crude oil, precious. A commodity
that has value only in it's controlled rarity.

from my humble research...
lunk
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painter
post Jan 19 2008, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Jan 18 2008, 09:26 PM)
<s>
from my humble research...
lunk

I want to believe peak is bunk, too. Market control as the underwriter of western capital currency markets makes a lot of sense to me. However, my most knowledgeable science friends insist that however much we may wish oil to be abiotic in origin, the science says we're wrong. I'm not qualified to have an informed opinion.
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amazed!
post Jan 19 2008, 10:42 AM
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That's where I'm at too, Painter.

Standing on the sidelines watching how this plays out.
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Timothy Osman
post Jan 19 2008, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE
Standing on the sidelines watching how this plays out.


That's why I thought I would put it in the Alt theories section, to cut out the middle man moderators. wink.gif

The thing is the Earth is just a lump of stardust ejected from somewhere else. At one stage this planet may have had a hydrocarbon soup on the surface just as Titan, one of Saturn's moons does today where it rains Methane. Dead Dino's don't cut the mustard in a lot of ways but who in their right mind would argue against what we're seeing. It does make you wonder if they, us are a long way behind the Russians geologically and this makes the control of known reserves strategically vital to the West. The Russians would have no hesitation in turning off the tap to their advantage methinks.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

This post has been edited by Timothy Osman: Jan 19 2008, 11:31 AM
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lunk
post Jan 19 2008, 03:12 PM
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Science has proven that hydrocarbons can
be produced without organic material.

Now, an interesting point is that Carbon is
found to be less than 1 percent of the Earths crust,
thus making it quite rare. We are Carbon-based
lifeforms. Life needs carbon to grow. Most Carbon,
is locked away in the Earths crust, inaccessible to most
life forms...except humans. I am beginning to wonder if
we are here just to extract as much Carbon as possible from
the Earth and pump it into the atmosphere where it will be
readily available to future life forms.

I wonder too much..
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bill
post Jan 19 2008, 03:54 PM
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http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=10225


This is the first of a series of 8 vids about oil politics and wars/currencies


worth watching before it 'disappears'



This post has been edited by bill: Jan 19 2008, 04:09 PM
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lunk
post Jan 19 2008, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (bill @ Jan 19 2008, 11:54 AM)
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=10225


This is the first of a series of 8 vids about oil politics and wars/currencies


worth watching before it 'disappears'


Must see!
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painter
post Jan 19 2008, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Jan 19 2008, 01:32 PM)
QUOTE (bill @ Jan 19 2008, 11:54 AM)
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=10225


This is the first of a series of 8 vids about oil politics and wars/currencies


worth watching before it 'disappears'

<s>

Must see!

I agree. Working on #5 right now. Definitely a must see.
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lunk
post Jan 19 2008, 10:27 PM
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I found the full length video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147
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Timothy Osman
post Jan 20 2008, 08:11 AM
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Interesting video, my only question would be why this guy makes the distinction between the World Bank and these huge Oil companies including Halliburton, they work hand in glove IMO.
The Oil companies profit when oil is high and when it's low, they must be the only industry which passes price rises onto the consumer the instant their raw products price rises. The price of sugar goes up and down and yet we don't have people changing the price of soft drink on vending machines overnight. These Oil corps make a killing on the way down too as the price never seems to be adjusted down too quick.
At the moment we have some good old oil boys in the White house, is it so strange to see that the oil business is making a killing worldwide. The World Bank is a facilitator, It's not as if Halliburton can loan money to a third world country to build a pipeline. That just wouldn't look proper. IMO the their is no need to pretend their is some hidden force of evil doer's, It's a question of Quo Bono.

QUOTE
Of the world's largest 150 economic entities, 95 are corporations (63.3%) according to data released this month by Fortune Magazine and the World Bank. Wal-Mart, BP, Exxon Mobil, and Royal Dutch/Shell Group all rank in the 25 largest entities in the world, above countries that include Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Norway, Denmark, Poland, South Africa, and Greece.



http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0718-worlds_largest.html

This post has been edited by Timothy Osman: Jan 20 2008, 08:21 AM
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lunk
post Jan 20 2008, 10:20 AM
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OK, I'm trying to get my head around this.
Oil costs between 3 to 5 dollars/barrel to
pump from the ground. US oil companies
buy this crude oil for aprox 100 dollars/barrel.
A large portion of this 100 dollars is used
to service the national debt of the States.
The 100 dollars/barrel is reflected in the price
at the pumps, plus additional taxes.

So if it turns out that crude oil is as abundant
as salt water...

The price drops at the pumps and the US debt
is no longer getting its' interest paid, as a result,
the US dollar tanks.

So in order for the "bucky" to maintain its' value
It is necessary for the price of gasoline, at the pumps,
to continuously rise. Of course, this will eventually
eat into the lifestyles of everyone in North America,
and maybe the whole world.

Either way, it seems the existing system is doomed.

imo, lunk
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painter
post Jan 20 2008, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Timothy Osman @ Jan 20 2008, 04:11 AM)
Interesting video, my only question would be why this guy makes the distinction between the World Bank and these huge Oil companies<s>

Yeah, I was having a discussion with a friend about this last night. The WB and IMF are conduits for economic policy, not necessarily policy makers themselves. Of course there are individuals who DO make these decisions and they may sit on many boards of directors.

I still can't quite get my head wrapped around all this, either.

I'm quite willing to accept that there is plenty of hydrocarbon energy -- that what all this is about is control of the energy market. Whoever controls the energy that enables civilization to do work controls the wealth of the planet. So-called "renewable" energy sources have been on the horizon for a generation now and the petroleum lords -- tied as they are to global banking and finance -- have fought the emergence of these technologies because they are inherently decentralizing. If every nation -- indeed, every citizen -- begins generating more than enough energy to meet its own needs, then they are not only out of business, they can no longer control the global money markets. One of their ways of forestalling the emergence of these technologies was to buy their patents and suppress their development -- which they have because they can't figure out a way to centralize the control of production.

If we could ever wrap our heads around the whole economic energy/capital equation and begin to see it in a new way we might be able to truly bring these fuckers down. Imagine what would happen if we all started generating our own energy? Or started generating our own wealth!

The answer is in there somewhere. I can feel it.
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lunk
post Jan 20 2008, 11:04 AM
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QUOTE (painter @ Jan 20 2008, 06:43 AM)
Imagine what would happen if we all started generating our own energy? Or started generating our own wealth!

The answer is in there somewhere. I can feel it.

YES!!!

Move to the country side.
Get yourself off the grid.
Grow your own vegetables.
Raise 3 hens.
Try to be as independent of the "system"
as possible.
Stockpile food.
Store away seeds.

Think like the powers gone out.

imo, lunk
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Timothy Osman
post Jan 20 2008, 09:13 PM
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I think you would need more than three hens to become a successful Chicken Rancher. Unless you were talking in some secret society code in which 3 really meant 3 billion and you were going to stash 2 billion 999 million 999 thousand and 997 hens on the North slope of your property and cause a global hen shortage. That I would understand. smile.gif
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lunk
post Jan 20 2008, 09:21 PM
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No code, it's quite simple
3 hens will give you 3 eggs a day.

most of the time.
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Timothy Osman
post Jan 21 2008, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE
If we could ever wrap our heads around the whole economic energy/capital equation and begin to see it in a new way we might be able to truly bring these fuckers down. Imagine what would happen if we all started generating our own energy? Or started generating our own wealth!

The answer is in there somewhere. I can feel it.


Bringing the fuckers down only creates another problem, what to replace them with.
I found this article on 911 Blogger, it seems we're not the only ones who have reached this conclusion.

QUOTE
The most appropriate way to describe the junta currently in control is corporatism. Mussolini would have been in awe of the Bush/Cheney puppet-headed oil and war cartel. This is not libertarian free market capitalism. I think it is its right wing authoritarian opposite. Oil companies use government levers to gain access to the people's treasure to kill competition literally and figuratively.

In terms of tyrannies or authoritarian states, you have:

the Left (where the many tends to take precedence over the one) example of totalitarian Communism (Dictatorship of the Proletariat), where the State and Industry are merged with the State bureaucracy in the position of power

and

the Right (where the one tends to take precedence over the many) example of Fascism, articulated most famously by Mussolini as Corporatism, where Industry and the State are merged with Industry (or corporations) taking the driver's seat.

Interestingly enough, they end up looking very similar to each other, mangled messes of tyrannical overreach that serve to hinder the human quest for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, or as I would say, life, liberty and the embrace of meaning in all its forms, happiness, sadness, confusion, inspiration, despair, hope, love... except for state-sponsored fear, war and madness of course.

Tyranny of all sorts-mental, physical, emotional and spiritual- are what we are clearly opposed to.

Capitalism, or a free market system based on profit, is linked to what I see as an inherent thrust or instinct in human beings, namely, the deep desire to compete. Whether looking at the evolution of species (whether or not you see design in that process and its resultant forms) or the play of youngsters on a playground, the human desire to compete as an individual and as a team is powerful. I see the better qualities of a capitalist free-market system as related to sublimating, transmuting or focusing this urge to compete into a game that can have benefits for human life; for competition can take the form of sports, b-boy/MC/DJ battles, the upkeep of Moore's Law of doubling micro-processor speeds, or tribal warfare and nuclear proliferation.

However, it must be recognized that while the surface of capitalism is competition, directly beneath that is a vast and deep network of interdependence and cooperation, which is also a deep, deep human instinct. While the NYSE daily delivers a battle for investment and stockprice, the infrastructure depended upon for the traders and bankers to both get to work (streets/powergrids/trains) and be able to have the capacity to work (read/write/rithmatic, let alone biological sources of food) is a work of finely tuned cooperation. The same thing can be said about the evolutionary process. Too much has been made of crude Darwinian "natural" selection. Operating right beneath the surface of the ecological law of the jungle as a battle to the death or "eat or be eaten," is, literally, the underground law of the rhizomatic, cooperative, internodally-communicative ecosystem as a "humming being", further expanded into the living, breathing panetary being of the "Gaia Hypothesis" (co-conceived by 9-11 truther Lynn Margulis).

So, to me, the question is how then to facilitate the creation and nurturing of an economic set-up that properly balances these two crucial forces and gives to them their proper place?



http://www.911blogger.com/node/13456

I don't see the Greed word in there which is a bit of a concern.
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painter
post Jan 21 2008, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Timothy Osman @ Jan 20 2008, 11:48 PM)
<s>
Bringing the fuckers down only creates another problem, what to replace them with.
I found this article on 911 Blogger, it seems we're not the only ones who have reached this conclusion.
<s>

http://www.911blogger.com/node/13456

I don't see the Greed word in there which is a bit of a concern.

I saw and read that article, too, Timothy. It is long but a good read.

It is interesting and appropriate that many people are beginning to ask these questions and discuss them openly. What this says is that we've begun to think differently about the social reality we're in. We no longer see it the way we once did -- the way corporate media wants us to see it. The more people begin to wake up, see what is going on and how they are implicated in it and begin to take some responsibility for their participation, the sooner things will change. How many of us here today "grocked" this a few years ago? How many of us understood that much of the more important things going on in the world are operations being run by a criminal class? Operations which have a cover story (often more than one) so they appear, superficially, to be doing one thing while they are in actuality accomplishing other objectives not spoken about in polite society -- not taken responsibility for by the body politic?

This model describes the "War on (some) Terror" and explains why it can never effectively achieve its touted aims just as it explained the "War on (some) Drugs," which was the model upon which the WoT is based.

The WoT has several different but interrelated purposes. Chief among them is to make acceptable the concentration of more and more domestic power and authority in Fascist/Federalist hands. What can they not do to us now if they so choose? They've gotten clean away with mass murder in broad day light -- and everything that has followed from it including for all practical purposes the nullification of the Constitution. At the same time the WoT acts as a cover for criminal foreign policy actions for the purpose of sustaining a bloated, immoral, unethical and bankrupt hierarchical social/financial system. Worse, it is establishing itself as a criminal global Empire -- a New World Order -- with total centralized control for the macro and micro management of just about everything and just about everyone just about everywhere. All this not to accomplish anything altruistic for humanity but to consolidate and perpetuate the control of a few over the many into historical perpetuity.

The very idea that we can "see" any of this, even in broad outline, is significant. There may be a lot about it we do not yet understand but we 'get' the general picture. We have begun to 'get' that, although specific individuals and groups play significant roles within it, it is the hierarchical system itself that is the true tyranny.

The question is, is their a real alternative? And, even if there is, how does one get from here to there? I don't have the answers but I do know that 'waking up' to what is going on, beginning to see that the way things actually are is not they way we're being told -- and therefore our consent to be so governed is not only compromised but nullified -- is an important first step. Beyond it we begin to ask the fundamental question: What else is possible?
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