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Religion Is Evil

painter
post Mar 30 2008, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 30 2008, 08:02 AM) *
Yes, he said in his film about religion something like, I'm paraphrasing here, "What is it in religion that takes young men with rucksacks and turns them into suicide bombers"

Inadvertently agreeing with OCT.


Well, by that way of thinking, what is true of "religion" in this sense is equally if not more true of "nationalism" and various other "isms". Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. (Voltaire) What difference does it make if you dress it up in a uniform with flags -- or a dark suit and tie or lab coat and a logo? Anyone who identifies so thoroughly with a set of beliefs or ideologies that he can be made to perceive a threat to these beliefs or ideologies as an attack upon himself can be motivated to kill in the name of whatever.

The fundamental question is, why are we human beings so suggestible? How is it our society puts us in a trance from day one and reinforces that trance through "rewards" and "disciplines" of all types, conditioning us to see our world and ourselves in it in a particular way? How is it we get so entrained in systems of belief -- regardless what category of system -- that we begin to operate as if that system is as important if not more important than life itself?
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Sanders
post Mar 30 2008, 12:55 PM
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Maaannn, I'm trying not to appear to fawn over painter's words ... I think I made a little complementary comment after another of painter's posts just yesterday ... but sheeesh. Painter, you blow me away sometimes. That above post, I think I'm gonna print it out and hang it on my wall somewhere.
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Sanders
post Mar 30 2008, 01:17 PM
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I made a mental observation today, one I wouldn't have had I not read one of those recent painter-posts. Japan, if you can imagine, is a totally different world. We have McDonalds, we have GAP, we have a lot of what the US has, we have about the same weather as many places in the US, the banks are owned by pretty much the same people, etc. etc. But jeeeez, it's like being on Mars or something. So completely different feeling than being in the US. And, for maybe the first time, I wondered "why "- and realized that it is the culture here, and the history of the country, and the way people interact and think - that permeates every nook and cranny and zoning law and traffic regulation - some things drive me completely crazy ... but, in a way, Japan is really cool. It's really, stubbornly, decentralized. The streets in Tokyo go every which way (and in fact, it was designed that way on purpose!!! - so enemies couldn't march straight into the city) and there are no street signs to speak of, so if you aren't local you won't have a clue where anything is or where to find anything. Japan is all about neighborhoods, and personal connections, and "En". En is a single character word that means .... er, um, gaaawwwd, this is the hardest word in the world to translate, yet in japanese it is written with one single simple character, and when you say the word "en", everyone knows exactly what you mean. It's something like, you have a connection to someone (or something or someplace ) - you have a history with them, or with people they and you know, or fate brought you together - maybe via those personal connections. It's like a combination of fate and common history coming together to make a connection with someone - and so you have "en".

Well, Japan can be a pain in the @ss place to live in sometimes, but it has some things going for it as well. Ooops, did I go off topic?
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painter
post Mar 30 2008, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Mar 30 2008, 10:17 AM) *
Ooops, did I go off topic?

yes1.gif laugh.gif

Kinda sorta. This "en" sounds very interesting. Japanese culture recognizes something that is invisible to our own -- and I think that part is very on-topic. Perhaps even a meta-topic.
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Sanders
post Mar 30 2008, 02:19 PM
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A little inside Japanese joke ....

In Japanese, many words are prefixed with "go", or "o". Hashi means chopsticks - in Japanese it's "Hashi". But you almost never say "hashi", you say o-hashi. When you speak about someone's family (kazoku), you always prefix it with "go" - GO-Kazoku. There is no difference in meaning between 'go' and 'o', it's just a grammatical rule that determines which prefix to use. The prefix is honorific ... water (mizu) is always o-mizu. So, "en", being a very important concept in Japan, is usually prefixed with "go" - so you say "go-en" (honorable fate-history-connection).

In english we call Japanese money "yen", but in Japan it's called "en". Same pronunciation as the "en" I have been talking about. The word for five is "go", so 5-yen is "go-en". The honorific way to talk about that other (history-fate) "en" is ... "go-en". Do you have "go-en"?? Do you have a nickel? Do you have "connection and history and fate to be here"? - same word. Sorry, it's a Japanese joke. I suspect it doesn't translate. rolleyes.gif

BUT!!! ... the Japanese are supersticious - they always want to have a nickle in their pocket - so they know they have "go-en".


I don't often talk about Japan, but my visa is up for renewal and recently I struggled with whether to stay here or return to the US - America is my country, I really miss it. But, there are so many unknowns - anyway, finally I decided to stay in Japan and keep on keeping on. I guess maybe Japan and I have "go-en"?
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lunk
post Mar 30 2008, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Mar 30 2008, 10:17 AM) *
The streets in Tokyo go every which way (and in fact, it was designed that way on purpose!!! - so enemies couldn't march straight into the city) and there are no street signs to speak of, so if you aren't local you won't have a clue where anything is or where to find anything.


I guess, if martial law is declared here, (N. America)
it might be an idea to take down all the
local street signs in my neighborhood.

On the road of de-creation, lunk
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Devilsadvocate
post Apr 15 2008, 09:18 AM
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The human mind has both a capacity for kindness and for evil at the same time;
In the same way, it also possesses the capacity for deep rationality and complete irrationality at the same time.
To deny the existance of one of those opposing principles- no matter how contradictory they may be in themselves- would ultimately mean denying our very humanity itself.
Irrationality may well be a very negative property; but if it is not contained in some way, it tends to take on a life of its own.
That was the role which religion once was supposed to play:
To provide the irrational element within the mind with a place where it could exist without doing damage.
Things which can not be seen with the (physical) eye must be rendered visible by way of symbols; sometimes that's the only way in which a particular concept can be understood by a mind which, due to the limitations hoisted upon it by the physical aspect of existance, would not be able to grasp a non-physical concept easily.
Unfortunately, that can end up defying the original purpose for using those symbols:
The moment the original meaning is lost, people all too often end up worshipping the very symbols whose original meaning they have forgotten...
With disastrous results.
It can mean a situation were "...My symbol is more sacred than yours...";
and when that happens- we tend to end up with crusades...
In antiquity, science and spirituality were tied together.
They were simply seen as two different sides of the same thing.
When those two principles became separated from each other, we ended up with a god-centered universe as prescribed by the medieval church.
The resulting imbalance was followed by an anti-reaction: The renaissance, and the reformation, which brought a new openness to a more rational approach.
That in turn lead to plenty of positive developements- but it also brought an almost superstitious belief in science as the measure of all things, and the solution to all problems.
We may very well end up with a new wave of irrational superstitious ideas, and if only as an anti-reaction to the negative aspects of the science-and-rationality-centered universe.
Unless we manage to tie those two principles back together.
After all, our shortcomings are a part of ourselves- and unless we provide a space where they can exist without doing damage, they end up running riot...
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Sinewy
post May 7 2008, 08:24 PM
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Why is Religion EVIL?

Typical response: It has caused many wars and deaths...blah blah blah.

That is not why Religion is EVIL.

So again, why is Religion EVIL?

Corruption and misinterpretation (which again is an extension of the SELF). So the conclusion is that RELIGION is not EVIL.
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UnderTow
post May 8 2008, 05:11 PM
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You don't have to ask why it is evil. Because it just is.

There is no God, GOD, or god. Religious Myths are tools created by men, to control men. To control wealth, knowledge, and power.

It is Evil.
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Sinewy
post May 8 2008, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (UnderTow @ May 8 2008, 09:11 PM) *
You don't have to ask why it is evil. Because it just is.

There is no God, GOD, or god. Religious Myths are tools created by men, to control men. To control wealth, knowledge, and power.

It is Evil.



That is not me asking "Why"? That is the common atheist question and response.


If religious myths are tools created by men, to control men, then that should hold true for all ideologies.
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UnderTow
post May 9 2008, 09:24 AM
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You are lost and pointless.

You are trapped within your religious infused false mind set.

It's is like trying to explain color to a blind person.
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UnderTow
post May 9 2008, 09:27 AM
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Re:Atheist

Try this thread on for size Sinewy.

10 Myths -- And 10 Truths -- About Atheism

In case you don't read, here's a choice quote:
As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts (1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
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Sinewy
post May 9 2008, 11:01 PM
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QUOTE (UnderTow @ May 9 2008, 01:24 PM) *
You are lost and pointless.


Buddy, how am I lost? So I shall assume that you are lost because you are an atheist?!

QUOTE
You are trapped within your religious infused false mind set.


Now you assume I am trapped, but can it be that you are trapped?!

QUOTE
It's is like trying to explain color to a blind person.


Bad analogy. See the argument from your side clearly stems from denying anthropomorphism with regards to God. I agree, I am against that as well.
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Sinewy
post May 9 2008, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (UnderTow @ May 9 2008, 01:27 PM) *
Re:Atheist

Try this thread on for size Sinewy.

10 Myths -- And 10 Truths -- About Atheism

In case you don't read, here's a choice quote:
As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts (1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


I think I will keep it to one thread UnderTow since it follows on the same lines and themes.

And to mention, I have read those "10 myths-10 truths" before. Those are nothing new, as it exhibits fallacies regarding religion and makes some hasty generalizations. Similar arguments have been made throughout the human lifespan.

With regards to the quote of Robert's, it seems he is an agreement with what I had mentioned. There are zealots who attribute an anthropomorphic nature of "a God", and this is very repulsive to people and may lead people to atheism.
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lunk
post May 16 2008, 09:41 AM
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Doesn't the word evil come from religion?
Evil is an idea that came from religion.
I think that it is better to think of the word "evil" as
the words "in error" as they are less confounding and divisive.
An error can usually be corrected,
where as evil, it seems, can't be...
without causing more errors.

imo, lunk
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