1,000+ Governmental Accomplices To 9/11? Sure, Why Not?, ... and far more from the news media! Options

[paulmichael]

In "The Third Truth" Youtube video (part 2 of 2, if I remember correctly), the interviewer raises an issue with nuclear weaponry expert Dimitri Khalezov. He, with a very shocked demeanor, brought to Mr. Khalezov's attention that he, Khalezov, was presenting a conspiracy scenario which would have taken 1,000 or more governmental accomplices… how could this be?

I will tell you how this can be: EASY!. Why, it would have been just as easy for the government to have had 100,000 such accomplices before, during, or after the fact of 9/11.

It all goes back to the employment vetting process for new hires in the government, and even more importantly, the vetting process for promotional decisions within the ranks of management.

One Youtube video is worth a thousand words, and so I refer you to the trailer, on Youtube, for the movie, "The Ides of March" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McCt-_yYLpo .

At elapsed time of 1:10 min. into the video, listen for the sentence with the keyword "loyalty."

Long ago, I learned from experience what it means when a job interviewer stresses loyalty. I learned that the interviewer is not looking to hire someone on the basis of true merit like expected work output, or intelligence, or even loyalty to one's true employer (meaning the entity which cuts the paycheck), but on the basis of the job candidate's willingness to assist in the interviewer's shady doings… or, at least, to assist in cover-ups. In other words, the ideal candidate has to show willingness (rather blind willingness) "to play ball."

The higher the rank of the job to be filled, the greater emphasis there will be on loyalty. (Let me make this perfectly clear: here I mean emphasis on loyalty to one's immediate superior, NOT loyalty to the actual employer, which, in the case of the government, would be the citizenry for whom the general welfare is to be served and advanced.)

When the ranks of management at a business organization are filled with blind loyalists, then you can imagine the culture of that business organization. The same holds true of the government, only MORE SO, and this is why…

Quite some time ago, I reduced my observations of government to writing: "The government is just one big criminal clique where everyone is holding hands with one another and covering for one another and where everyone is at the ready to do whatever they are called upon to do all for the sake of the continuance of a paycheck or for the prospect of advancement. So many government workers are like junkyard pit bulls ready to do anything or attack anything just as long as the next bowl of chow is tossed on the floor before them."

The ethicists say: if you are in a situation marked by dishonesty, you are to resign immediately and seek employment elsewhere. But, hey, if you are going to be like that, you are not going to be wanted!

Confidential to insiders at once-stellar companies like United Airlines, American Airlines and Delta Air Lines: If you have ever wondered why your companies have, over the years, gone to the dogs, there's a clue above. To repeat: When the ranks of management at a business organization are filled with blind loyalists, then you can imagine the culture of that business organization.

How do you think the government got so much 9/11 cooperation (accomplice services) from the media? It's the blind loyalist culture, of course!

While I have your attention, please read my posts under the thread entitled: " Joseph Solari, a Now-Deceased Bronx Goodfella (9/11 Connection??)" in the Alternative Theories forum. Thank you.

Paul Michael

[amazed!]

Good points all. The other word that might apply besides 'loyalty' is 'team player.'

[onesliceshort]

I was recently involved in a discussion about this at TruthandShadows blogspot

Apologies beforehand for the short story coming up but I was thinking out loud…

Please don’t confuse my “loose end” argument with the “thousands couldn’t keep a secret” spin. I totally agree with your position on this Craig. 

It’s interesting that you mentioned that your friend believed that people were caught with their trousers down and that this somehow explained away the “discrepancies” in the official story. Ironically, she is probably describing the very scenario that the perps used to cover their tracks after the event. The “thousands” that government loyalists refer to consist of “blue collar,” lower down the pegging order, nodding dogs within the bureaucratic and “security force” ranks.

Information was controlled, compartmentalized and censorship-cum-blatant lies justified to these people through one of several scenarios.

1) “We don’t want to cause a conspiracy theory”

2) “It’s a matter of National Security”

3) “We’re following leads that must be kept from the public”

4) “It was a sting gone wrong”

5) “That’s an order”

Mix into the above conscience soothing excuses to turn a blind eye the fear of death, losing their jobs, threats, blackmail, promises of promotion, fear of not conforming to what they were told, etc

Same goes for the middle to upper tier. The stakes may be higher. How much dirty deals go on , corners cut and backhanders slipped in the US daily (and the world for that matter)? How many military and corporate lapdogs who were unaware of what was going to go down that day were actually caught with their hand in the cookie jar and went along with the official story to cover their lying, stealing, murdering asses? 

Mix into that lot the CIA dirty secrets accumulated on these people. And the politicians. The prospect of incarceration for whatever the CIA has on them.
Multi-billion dollar deals hanging in the balance. Blackmail on an industrial scale.

The same chain of command and the same lapdogs were there when Oklahoma, Waco, TWA800, Mena and IranContra (to name but a few) were whitewashed. The same people who set up fascist regimes throughout Central and South America, as you say, but also in Europe (Gladio) and the Middle East.

Here’s my point (at last!)

9/11 was the high risk black op. It had to be approached with a black op MO. 

Compartmentalization. 

Operatives were running in cells. Each cell had their own part to play to varying degrees. Some cells were used as a distraction. No cell knew who the personnel were in others.  The personnel in each cell possibly didn’t even know who was in their own. Each cell possibly didn’t know what the end result would be that day bar the military operatives controlling the aircraft and demolitions. 

When the entire plan came together, and they saw the end result, they immediately circled their wagons and let the politicians and media take over, having already started the ball rolling by pointing the finger at OBL and insinuating that what millions had just seen was possible and which was eventually used by NIST and FEMA to explain the collapses (Harley guy for one).

From there on in, evidence was “confiscated”, tampered with and destroyed.

Media saturation. Repetition. Lies for 10 years. A gullible, apathetic and demoralized public. Money being made. Job done.

[paulmichael]

Confidential to insiders at once-stellar companies like United Airlines, American Airlines and Delta Air Lines: If you have ever wondered why your companies have, over the years, gone to the dogs, there's a clue above. To repeat: When the ranks of management at a business organization are filled with blind loyalists, then you can imagine the culture of that business organization.

It was only mentioned in passing, so many of you who have read George Orwell's novel 1984 may not remember, but in Winston Smith's world there was an emphasis on fat, slovenly, smelly, and incredibly stupid coworkers.

My, what a coincidence. I personally witnessed no shortage of such types in the behind-the-scenes white collar office environments of major corporations, not to mention totally unemployable freakish low-lives. (I never was in the employ of the government.)

Go and check the employee rant pages of the Untied dot com website at http://www.untied.com/ual/fb.shtml and you will hear accounts of some incredibly stupid supervisors at a certain major airline.

Obviously, in 1984 the emphasis was not on true worker merit like work output, intelligence, or the like, just as things are in real life in 2012.

By the way, did you ever wonder why previously bigoted companies now embrace the now-protected demographic groups, that is, protected under the equality laws? Why, it's because the now-protected demographic groups make good accomplices in "doings" simply for the sake of power and position.

Paul Michael

[SanderO]

Towing the *company line* is not confined to companies. Once there is an idea out there coming from official sources... always unnamed... there is a lemming mentality at work... the theme is repeated and enhanced and takes on a life of its own. We've seen for a long time that the media has dropped the ball on investigative reporting and simply fosters insider relationships to government sources... often with the promise of anonymity for the leaker of course.

Whether or not 911 was an inside job, the fact remains that the USA had engaged in policies in the mid East which gave rise to anti American and anti Israeli sentiment... often seeing the two as related. It is also a fact that the USA used proxies to engage the USSR during the entire post WWII period and this included the establishment and support of the Mujahadim (sp?) which was eventually tagged Al Qaeda by someone and the name stuck. AQ became the catch all name for islamics who opposed US policies and were willing to engage in assymmetrical warfare... since they could not meet the USA on a battlefield. Since WWII virtually all conflicts have either been state police/military actions usually to consolidate control over the people or seize adjacent land... or insurgencies by the indigenous peoples against a local despot... who was usually installed by the USA or supported with military aid by the USA... making the USA appear (correctly) to be their oppressor.

There were Islamic terrorists incidents in Nairobi embassy bombing, the attack of the USS Cole in Yemen and the bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. In addition there were numerous smaller Islamic terrorists actions over the past 5 decades against both Israel and other western targets. Terrorism is real. Anti Americanism is real.

The USA counter terrorism task force or equivalent was mostly about gathering intel and trying to prevent acts of terrorism. Since there was no single state for the USA to attack terrorism was seen as an international policing problem... And policing has been largely a REACTIVE tactic. But as can be seen the terrorists were able to get their hands on some serious weapons... or make some very destructive bombs. Still with the attacks not occurring on US soil there was little demand or understanding on how to respond.

It's certainly possible or conceivable that 9/11 changed all that. This was an attack on US soil, against innocents (terrorism)... making every American feel vulnerable and the need for a response and increased security. The DOD understood this and twisted this fear into pressure for several wars in the ME.. especially against Iraq which was not involved in 9/11 and was simply not a threat to the USA... as was Afghanistan. People were easily manipulated to want vengeance and the response was nothing short of racism... something which runs in the blood of Americans

The DOD, etc. were not going to let the opportunity pass... and there is reason to suspect that USA intel had wind of these attacks and simply let them happen and were poised to manipulate the response... emotional on the part of the public and political on the part of congress. 911 was a hay day for the MIC... with their wildest dreams coming true. Rather than be downsized after the Cold War ended... new life was injected into their blood... recruitments were up... money flowed to the MIC in enormous no bid contracts. They understood what a *new Pearl Harbor* would mean and it would produce exactly the same response as December 7th,a day that will live in infamy did.

No need to plan the NPH... it was simply a matter of time and sort of letting it happen... or keep pissing off these peoples and it certainly would.

So there is no doubt that the 911 story was loaded with spin... and very possibly spin AFTER the fact to manage the NPH response. Assume for a moment that 911 was not an inside job... What would the response have been? How would the DOD and the media play it? How different would it have been from what we witnessed? Would they be calling 911 a crime and calling for investigation and scientific reports and building studies? Or would they be beating the drums for war?

What may be lost in all the conspiracy theories... is that the collapse of the 3 towers exposed the fact that these buildings have some questionable aspects to their design and construction... and even planning decisions. Virtually none of this was looked at in the so called official investigations or by the 911 truth community. There seems to be a presumption that the towers could not come down as they did without assistance... according to the truth community... or that fires alone with WTC 7 and fires and a plane strike could take down 3 massive structures weighing north of a million tons. Both positions defy credibility and both of them need to be more properly explained than they have. The inside job seems to rely on a massive government conspiracy and the OCT seems to make it seem that any tower could collapse from unfought fires. But never no mind... the USA had a new enemy and mission... the never ending war against global terrorism.... exactly as described in 1984 and Brave New World.

The tragedy of 911 has now been compounded by the world that has been imposed on us. That is a political outcome not envisioned by terrorists, but by the corporatists and military. What little democracy we had has been all but destroyed post 911, not by the attackers, whomever they were... but by our own government. Look who won... the MIC... the corporations. Read The Shock Doctrine: the Rise of Disaster Capitalism.

[onesliceshort]

Just can't resist sliding the official version on the towers (especially WTC7) into the conversation SanderO can you? Ha!

And "murder of the innocents" isn't confined to non governmental groups. Don't forget state terrorism. The biggest terrorists on the planet in every sense of the word.

Whether some brainwashed or damaged dupe straps a bomb around his waist or bombs are dropped from miles up, the end result is the same. Innocent blood.

I see no distinction between the two. And in fact would go so far as to say that the majority of "terrorist attacks" perpetrated over the past few decades have been orchestrated by, paid for and/or directed by government bodies.

Some "terrorists" and terrorist states are ignored if and when it suits.

Remember who actually coined the word in the first place.

[mrodway]

There is no need to assume anything SanderO,

You can just read Sible Edmond's book "Classified Woman", she has testified and on gone on record about her experience at working at the FBI and the governments involvement in 9/11.

It's all there for anyone who cares to look. It also neatly explains how the whole 'Accomplices' thing works.

[SanderO]

mrodway,

I am in the process of reading Sibel's book. There is no doubt that gov was certainly involved in the post 911 event or actually as it was unfolding... the so called *response* came immediately as that is what government does. As I stated there is reason to believe that 911 involved a certain level of what is called MIHOP. And Edmonds, Rowley and others have pointed out that there was intel that something was going to happen. Sibel was a translator and she didn't learn of insider planning or chatter but she did learn of corruption by insiders and was silenced for this. My take away from Ms Edmonds experiences is that at best she learned of how insiders were abusing the system for their own benefit or even acting as agents for other governments, such as the Turks and Israelis.

OSS,

Of course state terrorism exists as well. The USA is a state terrorist when they bombed Dresden in WWII and dropped the nukes on Japan. The USA calls the killing of innocents collateral damage but this amounts to terrorism. And the US has supported numerous insurgencies who engage in what is called terrorism such as the the Contras or anti Castro groups who have blown up airplanes. By the numbers state terrorism as practiced by the USA dwarfs that of the non state terrrorist in terms of destruction and loss of human life. And it continues today on a small scale with drone attacks... and so called targeted killings of even American citizens... torture in prisons such as Abu Graib and Gitmo... and perhaps even super max prisons within the USA. One could even classify the many killings by police over the years (of usually people of color) as a form of state terrorism... or even the stop and frisk polices of the NYPD as a form of terrorism. The USA is a militarized society and as such it use fear and what amounts to terrorism practices on populations inside and outside the USA.

One might even say the OCT - the official spin on 911 advanced the terrorists nature of the event. It certainly was not treated as a crime, with evidence preserved, fact finding and discovery, then a trial to establish innocence or guilt of the perpetrators. Instead the OCY quickly was put out branding the event a terrorist attack, naming the perps and using the event to garner support for hegemonic polices in the ME which were certainly not possible if was deemed merely a crime perpetrated by some crazy nuts.

The recent killings in Colorado were not labeled as terrorist. But the effect of this was to instill fear and terror in the public whether that was the main intent of the shooter or not. Colorado will be treated as a crime and investigated as such.

It's important to understand how this use of force by the state and by non state actors has changed the way people see the world and the role of government in maintaining security. And it is important to understand how the agencies within local, state, federal government provide security to the citizens and the nation. The meme is that basically there are all sorts of bad actors out there, from individuals to groups, to nations even. There are rules and laws which exist to define right conduct and when the laws are broken the state acts to sanction those who step outside these rules and laws. These sanctions are within the criminal justice system for domestic crime and international law and foreign policy practice outside our borders.

An act of war as defined by 18 USC § 2331

(1) the term “international terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
© occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;
(2) the term “national of the United States” has the meaning given such term in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act;
(3) the term “person” means any individual or entity capable of holding a legal or beneficial interest in property;
(4) the term “act of war” means any act occurring in the course of—
(A) declared war;
(B) armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations; or
© armed conflict between military forces of any origin; and
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
© occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

One can see how the umbrella term terrorism has been morphed into an act of war. Acts of wars are not of the same nature as domestic crimes. There is much confusion of how the justice system responds to what are deemed acts of terrorism. And as a result of this confusion and murkiness the National Security state has taken an ad hoc approach. In some cases it conducts wars... even undeclared ones such as Iraq or Afghanistan... in other cases it has used intel to support and state *black ops* such as assassination attempts on Castro. The state has also engaged in rendition, in classification or people as enemy combatants depriving them of any rights with the justice system and allowing the state to ignore all laws of the Geneva convention, not to mention the US Constitution Bill of Rights.

One needs to ask, Why? The simple answer is that powerful corporate interest find it expedient to not be confined by domestic or international law in their conduct and this applies to the branches of the government itself especially those engaged in national security and policing including all the intel agencies, the DOD, and the various police departments. And what is *their conduct* about? One can see that the agenda of the corporations is amassing wealth, control of resources and limiting others who appear to be impediments to this agenda. The US government has evolved into a structure not to protect and foster the well being of the citizens but to advance and protect the corporations and their capitalist agenda. And while the laws and constitution exist, they are not applied with liberty and justice for all. The laws and constitution are ignored when it is expedient for corporate and powerful interests in pursuit of their agendas.

People such as Edmonds, Rowley, McGovern and Agee decades before have essentially naively believed that government was of, for and by the people and that we were a nation of laws and the constitution was immutable. They learned that this was an illusion... clever that it is. No need to have a coup d'etat and toss out the laws... just leave them in place and ignore them! So we've had a slo mo coup d'etat where our nation has been slowly transformed over the decades since the close of WWII into what amounts to a fascist state posing as a democracy. While fascism is hard to define... " ...originally, "fascism" referred to a political movement that was linked with Corporatism that existed in a single country.... Most scholars prefer to use the word "fascism" in a more general sense, to refer to an ideology (or group of ideologies) that was influential in many countries at many different times. For this purpose, they have sought to identify a "fascist minimum" - that is, the minimum conditions that a certain political group must meet in order to be considered fascist. Several scholars have inspected the apocalyptic, millennial and millenarian aspects of fascism.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the "far right" or "extreme right...."

Note the association with *corporatism* and *once in power*. It's not hard to see the influence of corporations in the American zeitgeist and see who is *in power* in the USA. Of late *the powers that be* (TPTB) been tagged the 1% and some even call it the 0.1%. With so much power and control in so few hands it is hardly necessary these days to stage false flags when the system has generated so much animus around the world... in people and groups who feel that they have nothing more to lose and will resort to terrorism as their only means to strike back. And this provides the national security state with its raison d'etre. If there was not perceived threat there would be no need for a national security state. More perceived threat... large franchise for the national security state. And so while China represents perhaps a tangible strategic threat to the USA.. militarily and economically... it is still our trading partner and almost everything we use is made in China and their banks are financing the US government debt. THAT sort of vulnerability and threat does not excite or disturb the people of the congress... random acts of violence do. Terrrorism Works for the national security state better than an army of corporate lobbyists.

The entire world has now become a battlefield for the struggle of the corportists and the oppressed. We inhabit a brave new world.

This post has been edited by SanderO: Jul 25 2012, 10:24 AM

[paulmichael]

Let me tell you about my experiences, albeit a good number of years ago, with International Business Machines as an employee and with the Ford Motor Company as a customer.

I wasn't on board with I.B.M. for long, but while there, I learned that every single I.B.M.'er was true blue to Big Blue's cause like lying, lying automatons. Why, you'd think that they were all under the influence of some mind-controlling drug. Those true bluers were wormy, treacherous, boldfaced LIARS, and this included an individual whom I knew from college and who, I thought, was a friend. You can imagine my feeling of betrayal.

I had a Ford product which needed some minor service under the warranty, and when you present such a case to them, they will grandstand and provide fine service with a smile. However, my next Ford product was much more of a challenge for them, a vehicle that was "hard to love," as you may say. Actually, this second car needed so much unaddressed and major repair under the warranty that it really should have been repurchased under Ford's repurchase program, but, boy, oh, boy did they ever resist this, AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON WITH WHOM I INTERACTED AT FORD WAS A THICK-AS-A-BRICK BOLDFACED LIAR ever ready to support the dishonest enterprise of their employer. Not only was this the case on the manufacturer's level, but every single person at six Ford dealerships to which I brought the car, likewise, were boldfaced liars. It was very disheartening to say the least. After much effort on my part, only a small percentage of my concerns were addressed, and only the minor ones at that.

If you see so, so many loyal organization men totally devoid of ethics and human sensibilities in the private sector, then why not a parallel situation in the public sector?

It was only mentioned in passing, so many of you who have read George Orwell's novel 1984 may not remember, but in Winston Smith's world there was an emphasis on fat, slovenly, smelly, and incredibly stupid coworkers.

My, what a coincidence. I personally witnessed no shortage of such types in the behind-the-scenes white collar office environments of major corporations, not to mention totally unemployable freakish low-lives. (I never was in the employ of the government.)

Among the freakish ones that I've observed at companies, there were a good number of totally insane ones whose behavior should have qualified them for being wrapped in straightjackets and sent off to bounce around in a rubber room. But, time and time again, I've seen insane ones being treated like indispensable golden boys and girls and being retained and even elevated.

I've also taken note that superiors like to have something in addition to paychecks and advancement to hold over the heads of subordinates in order to control them… in other words, have something "on" the subordinates. And so you will see jaw-dropping promotions for people who should have been fired for various forms of misconduct!

On the flip-side of things, just go into a place of employment these days, and put your best foot forward as a model employee, and see what happens to you. You will be treated like the bee that entered the wrong hive. For those of you who do not know what happens to the bee that enters the wrong hive: IT GETS STUNG TO DEATH.

And so, I say, it should come as no surprise to me OR YOU that the government had 100,000+ accomplices involved in the big lie known as 9/11.

And, you know, in Meth Nation, meth use and abuse raises things to a whole new level, because it's been said on a couple of websites (before sanitizing) that meth makes a user totally AMORAL. Based on my observations of [less than proper] conduct at the D.E.A., the F.B.I., the N.Y.P.D and other governmental agencies, I'd say that meth use in those places must, must, must be a condition of employment! (See my other posting in the Debate forum entitled: "Can Methamphetamine Or Ecstasy Use Explain The Brazen Acts Of 9/11?" Thank you.

Paul Michael

This post has been edited by paulmichael: Jul 25 2012, 09:32 AM

[onesliceshort]

Well said.

No need to have a coup d'etat and toss out the laws... just leave them in place and ignore them!

Exactly.

Agee's video (and further research) on the CIA and global fascism had me engrossed. I'll have to post a thread on that.

[SanderO]

Paul Michael,

I think you are not assessing why people act with perceived loyalty in most cases. It is simply self preservation. If they don't, they are out of a job and black listed in the job market... and face economic hell. Be a team player and work your way up the corporate latter... in the process amassing more power and wealth (compensation) and at the same time becoming more indoctrinated to the corrupt way corporate players behave... until you reach the upper echelons of the corporate pyramind and you are now without morals or ethics and simply a machine skilled at deception and self aggrandizement.. absent a conscience and capable of ignoring laws and breaking them to advance personal and corporate agendas. Look at the examples of Jamie Dimon of Jow Paterno, or Key Lay... or virtually any CEO today likely has many skeletons in their closet. It's part of the franchise to wield power in the crony capitalist system we live UNDER.

911 or the BP oil spill or Fukishima or Katrina are not orchestrated plots by TPTB... they are likely simply opportunities... disaster capitalism at work where all the *bots* fall in line and simple do as their are expected or are told. The military DEMANDS this sort of behavior... and this has confused many a soldier faced with carrying out an illegal (unethical and immoral) order. Within the military the soldiers are trained to FIRST obey not to think of the legal, ethical or moral ramifications of a command. This is precisely how it is possible to have a soldier obey the orders to drop an atom bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki... or drop napalm in Vietnam... or *pilot* drones or launch cruise missiles. The military will claim that this sort of loyality and obeisance is essential to their mission. I suppose it is because the mission of the military is more often than not illegal, immoral and unethical. And it is no wonder that soldiers are torturing and raping and wantonly killing anyone. They've been given license to do this. No the brass will not admit to this... but this IS military culture... drilled into every soldier from the day they begin boot camp.

Not only was there no need to orchestrate a plot of thousands... it never would work because of the complexity. Once the ball is rolling in one direction (the OCT being floated minutes after the first plane hit) everyone in the national security state and media was on autopilot (response).

[paranoia]

i think a distinction is necessary here, between "accomplice" and "accessory after the fact". i believe that in order to minimize loose ends, the perps compartmentalized as much as possible the execution of the various individual physical missions. wether it was the planting of bombs in the towers or the staging of the cab and poles in arlington, those footsoldiers were kept in the dark about each other. very few people would have had an overview of the entire day's objectives and knowledge of the individuals tasked with completing them, so these actual ACCOMPLICES are low in quantity/number. otherwise cleaning up liabilities in the aftermath would have been a whole new mission (a complex and risky one at that) with many loose ends to worry about and with many people to silence (im sure that still happened, but i believe that if for nothing other than logistics, the number of people with inside knowledge AND complicity was kept to a minimum).

on the other hand, the aiders/abettors in the aftermath, the press and most of the politicians, are not accomplices in the act itself. their reasons and motivations for towing the party line in the aftermath probably vary - some may have done it because of misled patriotism, some for personal gain, some from fear (sending anthrax to the news agencies and the heads of congress surely got the message across), but all of these entities were only a part of the cover-up, not the act itself imo.

[mrmitosis]

Slice, I think you summed it up best.

COMPARTMENTALISATION.

People like Chomsky reject alternatives to the official 9/11 narrative on the basis of the topic at hand. But a carefully delegated plan, chopped up into thin layers of complicity where those involved are oblivious to the grand objective is not difficult to imagine. In fact, it's the only way I can conceive of a plot as ambitious as 9/11 succeeding in any other way.

[SanderO]

COMPARTMENTALISATION.

People like Chomsky reject alternatives to the official 9/11 narrative on the basis of the topic at hand. But a carefully delegated plan, chopped up into thin layers of complicity where those involved are oblivious to the grand objective is not difficult to imagine. In fact, it's the only way I can conceive of a plot as ambitious as 9/11 succeeding in any other way.

MrM,

Yes and no. Correct that a huge plan requires and large organizations always have enormous compartmentalization as an artifact of their size. There would and could be no way for every person in a large organization or project to be up to speed on the entire thing. Compartmentalization is not planned as a means necessarily of concealing crimes... though it does function that way.

For example.... Imagine that the president and his advisers decide to attack some country. They will call in the Joint Chiefs and say for example... we need to support the rebels in Rondonia. The POTUS does not develop a detail plan of how to do this though he may be involved in discussions of whether to land troops from sea, drop them in choppers, use cruise missiles or carpet bombing and so forth. He's CIC and so he can veto the war plans the JCs come up with. They likely have people who produce war plans and so they simply report them to the POTUS. When the plan is agreed upon they JCS go to the various DOD branches and issue orders to prepare for the attack and the orders work their way down the chain of command until it reaches to foot soldier who is simply told to get ready to deploy... the mechanics ready the weapons and so forth and do not know or why or maybe even where the plans and weapons will be deployed to. They follow orders The chaion of command pyramid is what facilitates a huge organization to carry out what is a complex plan involving thousands of participants. There is no other way.

Now to circle back to the inside job theme of 911. The orders coming from the top seems to set off red flags... all the way down... if it were to destroy the WTC and attack the pentagon. Some orders.. such as staging a war exercise would be no problem and readily followed. But how do you compartmentalize the placing of bombs or faking a crime scene as any sort of normal activity? More red flags? Would loyalty trump receiving such bizarre and clearly illegal orders? I doubt it. It seems to me a bridge too far.

Could a order appearing lawful insert targets into the ATC system (part of a lawful war exercise)? Could a stand down order to not attack commercial flights seem lawful and hold for further orders? I think so. Such a stand down order could come from quite high up in the chain of command and reach the air defense pilots almost instantly. Such an order appears to make no sense. But perhaps since hijackers had not used a plane as a weapon the response to such was not *gamed* or prepared for... though it should have been. And how would the DOD know the intent of the hijackers at that time?

With hindsight it seems bizarre that the air defenses were not used to respond. Was that intentional to assist the attacks? Was it planned to assist them? Or was it incompetence? Or was it driven by confusion and unpreparedness?

What we do know is that the post investigation failed to properly explain how the DOD failed us or how they participated if they did. We've also not seen any real evidence of insiders actually participating in CD or staging of evidence. So if the poles were placed there.... who did it and how was it done? How do we get from the gross statement of an inside job directed from the top of a chain of command pyramid to the foot soldiers who executed the complex event? When was Silverstein and Guiliani et al read into the plot? Well in advance.... or as it was happening or after the event? How was the media scripted in their responses or the planted witnesses?

Sure one can conceive of the need for a huge compartmentalized plan. But can one conceive of how it was actually enacted? You can't have the former without the latter.

[onesliceshort]

1) “We don’t want to cause a conspiracy theory”

2) “It’s a matter of National Security”

3) “We’re following leads that must be kept from the public”

4) “It was a sting gone wrong”

5) “That’s an order”

Think of each scenario above and see if any question falls under those categories.

If we're talking about the actual perps whose actions enabled the 9/11 ops, people actually on the ground who planted devices, staged the areas and who were prepared to implement "Plan B" (or C or D or...), the argument about the very existence of people willing to carry out these orders or whether loyalty is a factor, is a non runner for me personally. These people have no qualms about the murder of millions, of seeing human beings as expendable on a biblical scale. 

From starting wars for profit, manufactured "terrorism" to industrial scaled child abuse (for blackmailed "loyalty") and experimentation on their own citizens (MKUltra, radiation experiments,etc), there is no shortage of takers.

The main advantage these people have is that people like us try to evaluate them and study their mindset when in reality we're dealing with psychotics, sociopaths and narcissists whose gods are money and control.

[DoYouEverWonder]

1) “We don’t want to cause a conspiracy theory”

2) “It’s a matter of National Security”

3) “We’re following leads that must be kept from the public”

4) “It was a sting gone wrong”

5) “That’s an order”

Think of each scenario above and see if any question falls under those categories.

If we're talking about the actual perps whose actions enabled the 9/11 ops, people actually on the ground who planted devices, staged the areas and who were prepared to implement "Plan B" (or C or D or...), the argument about the very existence of people willing to carry out these orders or whether loyalty is a factor, is a non runner for me personally. These people have no qualms about the murder of millions, of seeing human beings as expendable on a biblical scale. 

From starting wars for profit, manufactured "terrorism" to industrial scaled child abuse (for blackmailed "loyalty") and experimentation on their own citizens (MKUltra, radiation experiments,etc), there is no shortage of takers.

The main advantage these people have is that people like us try to evaluate them and study their mindset when in reality we're dealing with psychotics, sociopaths and narcissists whose gods are money and control.

Humans are a nasty bunch.

[onesliceshort]

Humans are a nasty bunch.

You can say that again...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22124 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

[SanderO]

Chris Hedges:

"The greatest crimes of human history are made possible by the most colorless human beings. They are the careerists. The bureaucrats. The cynics. They do the little chores that make vast, complicated systems of exploitation and death a reality.

They serve the system. The god of profit and exploitation. The most dangerous force in the industrialized world does not come from those who wield radical creeds, whether Islamic radicalism or Christian fundamentalism, but from legions of faceless bureaucrats who claw their way up layered corporate and governmental machines. They serve any system that meets their pathetic quota of needs.

These systems managers believe nothing. They have no loyalty. They are rootless. They do not think beyond their tiny, insignificant roles. They are blind and deaf. They are, at least regarding the great ideas and patterns of human civilization and history, utterly illiterate. And we churn them out of universities. Lawyers. Technocrats. Business majors. Financial managers. IT specialists. Consultants. Petroleum engineers. “Positive psychologists.” Communications majors. Cadets. Sales representatives. Computer programmers. Men and women who know no history, know no ideas. They live and think in an intellectual vacuum, a world of stultifying minutia.

These armies of bureaucrats serve a corporate system that will quite literally kill us. They are as cold and disconnected as Mengele. They carry out minute tasks. They are docile. Compliant. They obey. They find their self-worth in the prestige and power of the corporation, in the status of their positions and in their career promotions. They assure themselves of their own goodness through their private acts as husbands, wives, mothers and fathers. They sit on school boards. They go to Rotary. They attend church. It is moral schizophrenia. They erect walls to create an isolated consciousness.

They feel nothing. Metaphysical naiveté always ends in murder. It fragments the world. Little acts of kindness and charity mask the monstrous evil they abet. And the system rolls forward."