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Famous "diagonal Cut Column", Metalsmith analysis

DoYouEverWonder
post Sep 13 2009, 06:28 PM
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Here's the image in context.




Sam Hollenshead was the photographer. But the original link doesn't work any more.

http://www.lraphotography.com/essays/sep11/essay_wtc.php

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Sep 13 2009, 06:32 PM
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DoYouEverWonder
post Sep 15 2009, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Sep 13 2009, 06:28 PM) *
Here's the image in context.




Sam Hollenshead was the photographer. But the original link doesn't work any more.

http://www.lraphotography.com/essays/sep11/essay_wtc.php



In the picture above, the fireman in the middle, in front of the angle cut column is wearing a helmet with the #864.

The numbers on FDNY helmets indicate the company or battalion the fireman is from. However, I can't find any company or battalion with that number?
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elreb
post Feb 21 2010, 08:34 PM
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For the record, I am a “Union” trained/certified plumber/pipefitter; as well as a State licensed Master Plumber with over 35 years of experience in commercial construction.
As a General Foreman in the construction of these towers, my responsibilities included plumbing, heating, air conditioning and tons of pipefitting and welding.
The following web site shows most of the pictures I need to make my point from:

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index....osition=160:160

They state that:

“And before the 9-11 Truth Movement allows this individual photo to become symbolic of foul play, wouldn't someone want to ask a group of welders at the local union hall what they think of this picture”?

“It would have been a good idea, because these welders would probably tell you that this looks a lot like a cut made by an oxygen lance torch”.

My response:

No welder on earth would make such a “Great angle-cut”…period. WHY? If they were actually cutting steel this large they would require a spotter and a crane for safety. No need for a steep cut?
Even if this were actually clean-up work (after the fact) the picture is still be proof of controlled demolitions. This action would also require the supervision of the fire department. (Remember this is Union work)

Next:

If you look at the guy pictured with the dark tee shirt, he appears to be setting a “Shape Charge” as compared to the guy with the white tee shirt that appears to be placing a “Linear Cutting Charge”.

Please notice that the guy placing the “Shape Charge” is in the exact location we find the so-called “Hole Cut” of the “Great angle-cut”.

In reality, a “Shape Charge” can ignite a “Cutting Charge”. Check out how easy it is to cut up to 6” of steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNqf56AFo...feature=related

But if you are still unsure…look at this:

http://www.sonicbomb.com/xv1.php?vid=demol...w=560&h=432

Controlled demolitions can do anything.
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DoYouEverWonder
post Feb 21 2010, 11:00 PM
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Aside from the angle cut beam covered in slag, there's something else wrong with this picture. The 3 'firemen' in the foreground have been photoshopped into the picture.

If you look at this image closely, you can see that the 3 'firemen' are all the same person, in different poses and positions.
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albertchampion
post Feb 22 2010, 02:39 AM
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the sonicbomb footage is great.

if real, that in and of itself reveals the censorship that bulwarked the oct.
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elreb
post Feb 22 2010, 03:08 PM
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Did anyone watch National Geographic and the FEMA supported EMRTC “Emergetic Materials Research & Testing Center” experiments in order to show us that thermite could not have been used to destroy WTC towers?
There experiments were designed to fail from the beginning.

The Discovery Channel experiment on Shaped Charges already admitted that P4 and C4 in open air do nothing, yet EMRTC uses thermite in open air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0szjEPQsUA

But this next clip shows that thermite will cut steel and it will flow like a blow torch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0qnHlVTaVs...feature=related

EMRTC also showed a 20 foot x 8 inch steel “I” beam suspended horizontally, with its edges on concrete bases and placed it over a lake of 700 gallons of fuel. They next placed 1 ton of steel blocks in the center of the “I” beams and set the fuel on fire to prove that you could bend the beam when heated.

But wait a minute; the steel columns in the towers were 4 inch thick boxes standing vertically. It would be like proving you could crush a chicken egg when laid horizontally and not vertically.

EMRTC went so far as to blow up a plywood and DUROCK® cement board box to prove that no explosives were used in the Pentagon! Experts or clowns?
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hiram
post Feb 22 2010, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (waterdancer @ Jan 26 2007, 01:14 AM) *
Not being a metal worker, I offer no opinions on what may have cut beams in any of the following pics, just adding them in as pics showing GZ columns...










About Post # 11 by Waterdancer:

The pictures shown are clear and interesting and I am no better metal worker than Waterdancer but :

why would one cut columns at different heights and patterns ?

The last pictures where the same column seems to have been simply glued on end and with rather thin longitudinal welds -given the thickness of the steel plates is intriguing.

Hiram
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elreb
post Feb 22 2010, 05:26 PM
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In the fireman group photo, I count six men...can you find them all?

It took me a little while to understand that the C-4 is what actually blows the column sideways.

For you mad bombers check out the following site.
You can set off C-4 with a light bulb.


http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthr...3&tid=10575

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bobcat46
post Feb 23 2010, 11:57 AM
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It is obvious that the diagonal cut column is still in place and would have been in the basement of the WTC. Could the cutting of this beam with thermite (or thermate) have been the "explosion and fire" that Willie Rodreguez experienced right before the first plane impact? the cutting of several crucial beams in the basement would assure that the site would not be left with a very high column of the central core, which, without cutting beams in the basement, would have been expected to happen due to the tremendous strength of the 47 4" thick box beams in the lower floors. There would be absolutely no reason for that beam to have been cut at a diagonal during the removal of the debris.

It seems that each and every piece of data that I look at closely weakens the Official Story and fills in more of the missing pieces of what really happened on 9/11/2001.

Now we need justice.
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BADBURD
post Feb 23 2010, 03:46 PM
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This is a picture of 2 diagonal cut columns during search and rescue. There is NO clean up going on at this point. This is out of the Times magazine dated sept 24 2001. I'm tired of everbody saying these were done during clean up. Some of them may have. BUT NOT THIS ONE!

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DoYouEverWonder
post Feb 23 2010, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (BADBURD @ Feb 23 2010, 02:46 PM) *
This is a picture of 2 diagonal cut columns during search and rescue. There is NO clean up going on at this point. This is out of the Times magazine dated sept 24 2001. I'm tired of everbody saying these were done during clean up. Some of them may have. BUT NOT THIS ONE!


That's the key. The only pictures worth anything are the ones taken on the first day of the attack. Except for search and rescue the site was should have been designated a crime scene and the evidence should have been carefully collected and documented. That's why Rudy and Co were in such a big hurry to 'clean up' the site.

After that, the visual evidence is so disturbed that without physical evidence, there's no way to know when the cuts were made. But a picture that shows cuts made before the iron workers arrived is more evidence that the WTC was prepared in advance of the attack to be deliberately blown up.

Some of the cuts could have been made days ahead of the attack in order to prep the building. A lot of work can be covered up with a piece of drywall. Just loosening a lot of the bolts, would help things along and who would ever notice?

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Feb 23 2010, 04:08 PM
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FM258
post Feb 23 2010, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Feb 21 2010, 11:00 PM) *


Aside from the angle cut beam covered in slag, there's something else wrong with this picture. The 3 'firemen' in the foreground have been photoshopped into the picture.

If you look at this image closely, you can see that the 3 'firemen' are all the same person, in different poses and positions.


Nice job!!! Never noticed that before but its obvious now. I think the dude in the back looks chopped in also.
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DoYouEverWonder
post Feb 23 2010, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (FM258 @ Feb 23 2010, 05:30 PM) *
Nice job!!! Never noticed that before but its obvious now. I think the dude in the back looks chopped in also.

Thanks. I love the guy sitting next to the fire on the left.

If you pull this picture into a photo editing program like Photoshop, it's easy to see that the image is layered and the 'firemen' are models that were photoshopped in.

This photo was taken by Sam Hollenshead and he won a Pulitzer Prize for it, so it's not just any photo.
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Maha Mantra
post Feb 23 2010, 10:35 PM
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One question would be why a welder would cut the beam so high if the purpose was to remove the beam from the area. Welders don't really like to cut huge steel beams where the slag will fly back at their face. The slag definately is from the inside out on the lowest face. It appears that the force from the cutting jet was from top to bottom across at an angle.
Its also a rather clean cut. A torch cut with the beam pushing down on the slag would have allowed for reattachment of the molten slag. That happens to me pretty often, cutting even 3/4" plate. It seems to me there should have been broken reattachment points unless the beam was cut all the way across at once and slipped over while the steel was molten. Also like the expert says, a crane would have had to have been lifting the beam as a welder cut it.
The only thing that comes to my mind that this isn't evidence of controlled demolition is if thermate cutters were used during clean up. I mean, why not ? It would be the quickest and safest way to cut the core columns for removal.

That other guy in the picture looks pretty clean too eh ?

IF, there was some overhanging dangerous mass attached to that beam, a welder could have cut the far three sides, the beam could have bent over, and then the last, closest side could have been cut from the backside (inside) out. I'd doubt that as a thermate charge would be safer and easier, and/or cutting the upper mass apart would allow for easier clean up of the whole mess.

Unless you wanted the beam to shoot out or slide to one side, it would have been easier to cut with a torch the connecting points which were probably bolts or rivets where the beam had its seperating joint above.
Demolitions will cut the beam at a slant in two places to allow for an instantaneous slipping out from under the load to allow for a near free-fall speed to give the collapsing mass the most accelleration to gain the most kinetic energy to demolish the structure below and the mass itself.
The speed at which destruction below the collapse zone progressed downwards indicates a need for very fast dislodging of beams which would require slant cuts. But there should be a lot of slant cuts, not one or two. Unless a few slant cuts were used for guiding the collapse and for downward acceleration, and some kind of joint dismemberment was used to seperate the columns at the joints to be flung apart by the kinetic mass generated by the slant-cut sections.
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elreb
post Feb 23 2010, 11:11 PM
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Trying to stay on topic “Famous diagonal Cut Column”:

I think it is only fair to understand the relationship between Ironworkers and structural steel.

Ironworkers…sometimes called “I” beam cowboys; they are masters at walking and working the high steel. Most steel is bolted or riveted together and there is some welding and cutting involved. Most Ironworkers are not required to be certified, they are what we Pipefitters call “Rod Burners”. (Very few use eye protection)

On the other hand:

No UA welder can work on a job site until he/she passes a weld test called a “Coupon”. They must pass this test for every material they desire to work on.

When proven to be an “Expert” this may lead to the "Golden Arm Syndrome" which results in:

1. Starched Khaki (Car hart) shirts, and spit shined boots that prevent burning.

2. Red bandannas with $100.00 worth of 316L Swagelok fittings holding it together, and matching welder skull caps to protect the ears.

3. Tungsten holders and belt buckles fabricated out of various alloys with more Swagelok fittings.

4. The inability to weld on anything that is not round with a hole in it.

5. The constant belief…that the last job and the next job are better than the one you are on.

On the other hand:

To an Ironworker…assembly is an “Art” which is not the same as disassembly.

Cutting stuff up, or off or down is nothing more than a pay check. Who cares what it looks like…these guys are not lumber jacks chopping down trees.

After the fact it is nothing more than clean up and removal, which does not require perfection.

WHY BOTHER WITH PERFECT CUTS?

The perfect diagonal Cut Column is proof of foul play.Kinetic energy is only need to bring the top to the bottom.

It has the signature C-4 provided “Boring Hole” and the deep cut of a “Linear Cutting Charge”. Who cares about thermite. RDX works just fine.

In fact, all four planes could not bring down one tower. If for some freak of nature, they could…you would still have 36 tons of titanium on the ground. Even if they were made of lead…where is the mass?

Check out this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Mohamed

I would put my money on him!
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onesliceshort
post Feb 24 2010, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (DoYouEverWonder @ Feb 22 2010, 04:00 AM) *


Aside from the angle cut beam covered in slag, there's something else wrong with this picture. The 3 'firemen' in the foreground have been photoshopped into the picture.

If you look at this image closely, you can see that the 3 'firemen' are all the same person, in different poses and positions.


The other guy doesn´t seem to quite "fit" either.
Look how WHITE that shirt is and what is he actually standing on?

Weird.
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RickMason
post Feb 24 2010, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (FM258 @ Jan 17 2007, 06:21 PM) *
Ahhhh I remember this one well....being that I am in the precision metal trade and know quite a bit about steel columns and how they are cut, and the characteristics that go with that...I will say that with 100% assurance, that was not cut with a torch, in fact, it is impossible to make a cut like that with a torch, or any other hand held instrument.

That I am sure of.


I, too, have many years(25) of mfg./fab. experience in the aerospace industry, and know this isn't a man made cut. Oxy-acet. torches do not leave slag, and there is absolutely no reason to make a diag. cut. It takes twice as long, and is potentially dangerous as the column could easily slip given any lateral pressure placed on the beam. Time, especially when conducting rescue/recovery activities as on 9/11, is the determining factor to consider when discussing this cut relating to c.d.
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RickMason
post Feb 24 2010, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (FM258 @ Jan 17 2007, 06:21 PM) *
Ahhhh I remember this one well....being that I am in the precision metal trade and know quite a bit about steel columns and how they are cut, and the characteristics that go with that...I will say that with 100% assurance, that was not cut with a torch, in fact, it is impossible to make a cut like that with a torch, or any other hand held instrument.

That I am sure of.


I, too, have many years(25) of mfg./fab. experience in the aerospace industry, and know this isn't a man made cut. Oxy-acet. torches do not leave slag, and there is absolutely no reason to make a diag. cut. It takes twice as long, and is potentially dangerous as the column could easily slip given any lateral pressure placed on the beam. Time, especially when conducting rescue/recovery activities as on 9/11, is the determining factor to consider when discussing this cut relating to c.d.
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bobcat46
post Feb 24 2010, 01:57 PM
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In reviewing literally hundreds of pictures from Ground Zero, I have seen many of the box beams that were cut in a diagonal manner, some right next to ones cut horizontally (which I can't explain). However, there is a mountain of evidence that there were many cut diagonally.

BTW, I have a new neighbor that just moved onto my street. He is a retired B-727 pilot (laid off many years ago before 9/11) that got involved in the cleanup at Ground Zero. He now is suffering from respiratory problems due to exposures during the cleanup. I still find it hard to believe that the Bush Crime Family White House changed the recommendations of OSHA and the EPA and allowed workers to be on the site without respiratory protection. Just look at the above photographs......not one of those workers are using protection and there is still a lot of dust and fumes in the air. That really shows how cold and heartless those Bushie bastards are.........they really need to be punished for their crimes.

This post has been edited by bobcat46: Feb 24 2010, 01:59 PM
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Christophera
post Feb 24 2010, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (bobcat46 @ Feb 22 2010, 04:57 PM) *
I still find it hard to believe that the Bush Crime Family White House changed the recommendations of OSHA and the EPA and allowed workers to be on the site without respiratory protection. Just look at the above photographs......not one of those workers are using protection and there is still a lot of dust and fumes in the air. That really shows how cold and heartless those Bushie bastards are.........they really need to be punished for their crimes.


I agree wholeheartedly with the issue of the environmental status change. Pre evasion of liability on a mass level.

As for the cut. It is a salvage cut configured as a special safety cut to facilitate a secure removal by an excavator with a grapple.



The size of the kerf is definately an oxygen lance. The height of the cut is because the operator was in a basket suspended by a crane. The angle has 2 tabs on the left that show fracture surfaces from being broken off by machinery.

This page has my take on the image and its misinterpretations.

http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11disinfo-rense.html

Here is the text on that page I wrote to describe exactly how the cut was made and why.

Shows a steel column with a salvage torch cut not a thermite cut. Thermite cuts are smooth, rounded, non linear events lacking all control. I do not know what kind of expert the article author consulted with, but I am my own expert having been involved with salvage and welding for 35 years.

I will explain exactly how the column was cut with a torch and provide another image showing the method used where it is more easily seen.

The image in the article shows a beam having a special salvage cut done on an angle which facilitates a hinging action. The remnant, not cut, in the upper left hand corner is the hinge point, The angle of the cut allows the beam to be tilted to the left as we see it supporting the weight until the hinge snaps off. This keeps the weight from being solely supported by the grapple of the excavator that is removing the piece. The weight of the column can cause it to slide from the grapple into the area below where retrieval would be difficult if not impossible until much later. The idea is to keep and get the iron away from the hole. the angled cut allows a semi horizontal swing away from the hole by the excavator, a fairly difficult move as the grapple has to turn, the boom has to go down a little and the crowd has to go out while the tracks move in the direction the column is going to lay in while the excavator re grabs the piece to carry it away. The uncut hinge point also keeps the column in place while the salvage worker completes his cuts.

How the worker does the cuts is as follows.
On the back top left of the beam is seen the primary entry point into the hand fabricated tempered steel column. It is a slight dip, 1/2 of a hole about the same basic size as the one seen below. A torched entry hole, second image down, upper column, left side, in another column that was cut square.

http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/PictureTours/beams.html
With the standing column in the top image the entry hole is cut first in the upper back and an oxygen lance is inserted into the hole until it reaches the inside of the opposite side, the side facing the camera. The worker, on his side, can clamp a straight edge to the column or prop up some pieces of steel to give a horizontal guide for the torch to slide on while pivoting the torch in the hole causing the cutting tip to travel across the inside of the opposite side. In making this cut the masses of slag dribble down the face we see. After that cut is made, the most difficult one, the worker gets along side with another guide rail and completes the side cuts blowing the slag inside. Then the back cut is made.

With a piece of tube, when you cannot access to the face of opposite side, this is the only way to complete this cut.

Thermite leaves an amorphous edge that is rounded in all directions, not following any line whatsoever. In 2002 I actually saw a photo from freshkills landfill of a thermite cut column, but failed to copy it. The image is long gone.




Thermite needs a fixture with a ceramic liner for use on columns because it is liquid when burning

Now this image shows a column cut with an absolutely inexplicable type cut and shape. It has "high performance cutting charge" written all over it.

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