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Facts About The Shanksville Crater. Put Some Bad Theories To Rest., Images show that the crater was not caused by a boeing 757

WhisperingWnd
post Mar 2 2014, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 2 2014, 04:31 PM) *
Interesting. What I see on the radar ~10:35-10:45EDT is this:

There are several planes in the sky around western Erie shore.
Closest to the Toledo at higher altitude - about 10nmi SW at 10:45 is a plane coming from northwest at 31700ft.
Then there is a plane flying NWW -about 20nmi North at ~10:39 at 12200ft:

Could one of them be your plane?



well that really throws a wrench into what I thought was a resolved issue. it seems neither of them could be the plane I heard. one is 31000 feet and the other is 12000 feet. is 12000 feet a distance where one could still hear the flyover - if it wasn't a fighter jet? I thought I remember somewhere reading Ashcroft flew in a Lear jet from where he was in Minnesota that morning, wasn't he also at a school? I really should have checked for this info before replying to your question..

I watch jets sometimes coming in for landings now and at times from where i'm located wheels are down and they appear to be in slow motion approaching the airport. they seem very low
and quite loud. I try to imagine what the sound was like on the ground in NYC and if this even comes close to that. there are cargo planes that come in at night and they too are very low
and loud. I kid you not, sometimes the passenger planes I see coming in you would swear you can see in the windows of the passenger compartment.

these radar images could be fighter jets although at 12000 feet i'm sure I would recognize that sound. 10:40am is approximately 1 hour after the ground stop if i'm correct. I heard 1 plane that morning and the skies were crystal blue here as well. I saw no contrails from flights moving through the area either, and yes I was keeping my eyes out for planes and thought it strange that none seemed to be landing at Toledo express.

hearing that plane and knowing it was too high to land here and Jennings continuing to say they were worried because there were still flights out there unaccounted for finally provoked me into calling the Secret Service and reporting this flight. I told the agent I had heard this plane/jet and was only calling to report because Peter Jennings kept saying that there were planes out they couldn't account for. The Agent said "maybe it landed" and I told him exactly what I've said here, it sounded too high to land.
He thanked me and hung up.

Immediately after I hung up Jennings said "there's a plane down near Cleveland". I know the TV archives do not have Jennings saying that.

I'm beginning to feel sick to my stomach, again. It really appears that 10:40am is not the time when I heard that plane.





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tumetuestumefais...
post Mar 2 2014, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (WhisperingWnd @ Mar 2 2014, 11:36 AM) *
is 12000 feet a distance where one could still hear the flyover - if it wasn't a fighter jet?

It is if overhead, but I'm quite not sure with it if the plane is 20nmi far away.

QUOTE
these radar images could be fighter jets although at 12000 feet i'm sure I would recognize that sound.

No, fighter jets would have military identification. Which the two planes I've shown last time haven't. There are fighterjets at the pictures - the two planes around Cleveland colored green.

QUOTE
10:40am is approximately 1 hour after the ground stop if i'm correct. I heard 1 plane that morning and the skies were crystal blue here as well. I saw no contrails from flights moving through the area either, and yes I was keeping my eyes out for planes and thought it strange that none seemed to be landing at Toledo express.


There actually is also this plane:

From what I see in the radar data I can't confirm it for sure, because it doesn't see planes at lower altitudes than that 1800ft there, but well could have done U-turn over Toledo after disappearing from the long range radar and land at the Toledo Express around 10:40-45.

QUOTE
Immediately after I hung up Jennings said "there's a plane down near Cleveland". I know the TV archives do not have Jennings saying that.

That's quite sure the archives are manipulated. For example now the CBS live picture of WTC2 strike is already replaced by something else and I'm sure the "dive shot" was still there just two or three years ago.

QUOTE
I'm beginning to feel sick to my stomach, again. It really appears that 10:40am is not the time when I heard that plane.

An so when you've heard it? blink.gif dunno.gif
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WhisperingWnd
post Mar 2 2014, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Mar 2 2014, 06:16 PM) *
It is if overhead, but I'm quite not sure with it if the plane is 20nmi far away.


No, fighter jets would have military identification. Which the two planes I've shown last time haven't. There are fighterjets at the pictures - the two planes around Cleveland colored green.



There actually is also this plane:

From what I see in the radar data I can't confirm it for sure, because it doesn't see planes at lower altitudes than that 1800ft there, but well could have done U-turn over Toledo after disappearing from the long range radar and land at the Toledo Express around 10:40-45.


That's quite sure the archives are manipulated. For example now the CBS live picture of WTC2 strike is already replaced by something else and I'm sure the "dive shot" was still there just two or three years ago.


An so when you've heard it? blink.gif dunno.gif


ok this is a possibility, I live east of the airport and this is wnw of the airport. not sure what you're saying here at the end, "An so when you've heard it"?
if it's regarding the time that I heard the plane I stated up thread I didn't know what time I heard it only that it was long after the ground stop was initiated.

it wasn't until I found that link from Woody Box with Ashcroft refusing to land in Toledo
was I able to connect a time to a plane.
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Godspeed2012
post Mar 2 2014, 09:53 PM
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thats great.

What do you think of the wings scars that are found all over the area?
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WhisperingWnd
post Mar 2 2014, 09:59 PM
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QUOTE (Godspeed2012 @ Feb 13 2014, 11:35 PM) *
These "wing scars" are not caused by wings. They are caused by water. The crater in shanksville that is claimed to be caused by a Boeing 757 was not caused by one at all but by something much smaller. If it was caused by it was caused by a cruise missile or small craft, the weathered scar was used as a target.

The fact that the crash site was meters away from Rollock Scrap yard which you can find connections there but thats another story.

Here is an image of a scar I found not too far from the crater site. Its not a rare feature.

Here is another. These scars were not caused by missiles or planes.

Here is an image of was is usually confused for a vertical stabilizer but I have yet to find a official account stating that the wing and tail scars were actually caused by a plane on 911.



This image shows you the crater that was most likely caused on 911. Too small for a Boeing 757, obviously.
I Hilighted the drainage into the "wing scar"

We can speculate about what caused the small 10 foot wide crater but whatever it was it crashed or targeted the old gash in the ground and WAS NOT A BOEING 757.


I found this interesting picture that is supposed to be from the USGS taken in 1994. if this is a valid photo from USGS I don't see how it can be from 7 years earlier than 2001,
trees don't grow that fast. Whatever year this photo was taken it does appear to show the same area and the same "scar".
I am curious what others think about this scar.







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Godspeed2012
post Mar 3 2014, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE (WhisperingWnd @ Mar 2 2014, 09:59 PM) *
I found this interesting picture that is supposed to be from the USGS taken in 1994. if this is a valid photo from USGS I don't see how it can be from 7 years earlier than 2001,
trees don't grow that fast. Whatever year this photo was taken it does appear to show the same area and the same "scar".
I am curious what others think about this scar.










Not same scar. But what caused the old ravine is what caused the new ravine was water and not a plane or bomb. The round circular crater was caused by something much smaller and not a Boeing 757.

The scar you show is not the exact one.
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WhisperingWnd
post Mar 3 2014, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (Godspeed2012 @ Mar 3 2014, 08:42 AM) *
Not same scar. But what caused the old ravine is what caused the new ravine was water and not a plane or bomb. The round circular crater was caused by something much smaller and not a Boeing 757.

The scar you show is not the exact one.



thank you very much, I did a search for this photo and many of the sites it was posted on tried to persuade readers this was a shot of the same scar.
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Obwon
post Mar 3 2014, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (amillionto1 @ Feb 14 2014, 08:16 AM) *
My USA today from September 12th quoted Carl Ray Landis, a 'contractor' from Somerset, PA, and his Nephew Carl Young, who were driving their pickup and saw the plane come straight down into the ground totally intact. Obvious BS. Paid shills. They still had an address in Somerset as of a couple years ago. Doubt that it is real.


Working from memory of the area, I don't believe that anyone on the ground had any sight lines to the actual impact. We saw the film of the lady on the road and all she could see in that direction was trees. The Arial maps, if I recall correctly, do not show any roads immediately adjacent to the crash site, which is probably the reason that site was picked. The "crater" looks more like something scooped out by a backhoe, and the grass at the edges is not singed or soot covered.

The "Jill Shively" photo of the crash plume is a fake, enlarged to a size where the pixels can be seen, the pixel blocks in the lower half do not match the pixel blocks in the sky which is smoothly pixelated. Also, again iirc the sky appears pasted in such away that at least one tree top is clearly obliterated. Not to mention that other analysts of photo data have taken issue with the nature of the plume itself.
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paranoia
post Mar 3 2014, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 26 2014, 06:31 PM) *
We now have three posters in this thread alone who have surfaced out of no where, averaging two or three posts a year, or less in the case of amillionto1.

amillionto1 (Mar '08) 2 posts total on Feb 26, 2014
Godspeed2012 (Sep '09) 14 posts total on Feb 26, 2014
WhisperingWnd (Jan '10) 8 posts total on Feb 26, 2014

What compelled them/him/her to post to this thread?

I said it before and I'll say it again.
Please stick around folks, I'm looking forward to more of your intellectual contributions to this forum!

Please prove me wrong; that you aren't shills/socks.

np1mike, even though i too am curious when i see new posts by seldom-posting "old" users (as in having registered a long time ago and been relatively quiet since), in this instance i find that your suspicions are misplaced. if these 3 posters were alleging that a plane had crashed in shanksville, then sure - give em hell, but it seems all 3 basically agree that the official shanksville story is bullshit. they arent pushing shoot-down theories either, so im not sure why you're being so tough on them. we welcome civil, rational, intellectually-honest debate, and even if it is perhaps a bit redundant, we dont mind the rehashing of already-known and mostly-accepted and agreed upon research (yes most of us here agree that the hole in shanksville was not caused by an aircraft having crashed there).



QUOTE (Obwon @ Mar 3 2014, 12:36 PM) *
The "Jill Shively" photo of the crash plume is a fake, enlarged to a size where the pixels can be seen, the pixel blocks in the lower half do not match the pixel blocks in the sky which is smoothly pixelated. Also, again iirc the sky appears pasted in such away that at least one tree top is clearly obliterated. Not to mention that other analysts of photo data have taken issue with the nature of the plume itself.

obwon, i believe you mean the val mcclatchey photo - jill shively is a name related to the oj simpson trial.
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NP1Mike
post Mar 3 2014, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Mar 3 2014, 06:54 PM) *
np1mike, even though i too am curious when i see new posts by seldom-posting "old" users (as in having registered a long time ago and been relatively quiet since), in this instance i find that your suspicions are misplaced. if these 3 posters were alleging that a plane had crashed in shanksville, then sure - give em hell, but it seems all 3 basically agree that the official shanksville story is bullshit. they arent pushing shoot-down theories either, so im not sure why you're being so tough on them. we welcome civil, rational, intellectually-honest debate, and even if it is perhaps a bit redundant, we dont mind the rehashing of already-known and mostly-accepted and agreed upon research (yes most of us here agree that the hole in shanksville was not caused by an aircraft having crashed there).



paranoia, I understand your take on this.
Perhaps I am just a little more paranoid than you in this respect. smile.gif

With amillionto1 (Mar '08) coming back to make just his second post, in this thread; no I don't buy it that the thread was so compelling he had no other choice but to contribute. Where is he now?

Godspeed2012 and WhisperingWnd are sticking around a bit now. Let's see how much continued interest they have for this site.

As far as judging the nature of the post to determine whether the poster is genuine or not is concerned, one has to be careful here too.
A slick operative will sometimes use poor grammar or take a pro-truther stance for a period of time.
Then they may slip in the odd anti-truther stance to confuse your take on them.

There are many variations and possibilities to a shill's work. It's not always obvious.
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paranoia
post Mar 4 2014, 02:10 AM
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np1mike - fair enough, but we try to be hospitable and accomodating until members actually do start trying to mis or disinform, lest we ward off genuine truth seekers with unearned hostility. its not a violation of the forum's rules or culture to register and not post, or to post occasionally, so that alone is not sufficient grounds for an accusatory tone (toward other posters). rest assured man, in the end most if not all of the pseudo-skeptics are transparent and expose themselves here by way of (if nothing else) their intellectual dishonesty. even then we are not in the habit of censoring or squelching them; if needed (or desired) we engage them in debate, but even if we dont, we trust in the ability of readers/members to discern what is and isnt bullshit. and unless someone is an outright disruptor, we give users a wide berth, but when its time to for the foot to come down, it will come down.

and think about this np1mike, that we dont really know you either! you taking such a hard line against other members - technically an act of provocation or disruption (albeit minor) - can itself be seen as a cause for possible suspicion, right? wink.gif i'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you mean well and are simply trying to defend the integrity of the forum, but to avoid any conflict, i ask that you please leave moderation to those tasked with it. but getting back on topic... for the record np1mike, do you agree that the hole in shanksville is staged/fabricated? and do you agree that a plane did not crash into that small hole out there?


btw - when it comes to shanksville, i'd be remiss if i didnt point the reader to the work (research / interviews) conducted by dom dimaggio, please check at least the pinned topics at the top of the pages here:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showforum=6
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showforum=2
thumbsup.gif


last note: im not trying to be condescending in repeatedly using your full screen name np1mike, its just that there are so many mikes around lately i dont want to risk any confusion! cheers.gif
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Obwon
post Mar 4 2014, 07:45 AM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Mar 3 2014, 06:54 PM) *
<snips>

obwon, i believe you mean the val mcclatchey photo - jill shively is a name related to the oj simpson trial.


Hahaha... You're right of course! I don't know how I made that incorrect connection but
it's because her name stuck in my head and popped up at one point or another, instead
of the Val Mcclatchey name. In any event they were both fraudulent, OJ was never anywhere
near Bundy that night at all. So they probably reminded me of one another but the easier name stuck. Oh well.

I do remember examining several copies of that photo and blowing it up really big so
that I could examine the pixel block arrangement. The bottom half is made up of the kind
of blocks of pixels you see written by SLR digital cameras, while the top half has a very different pixel block structure that is so faint that it appears smooth. They are so different
that you can trace along the dividing line where the pictures were merged and you'll see
on the right side at the tree tops, one of the tree tops was clipped off because they weren't
too careful with the paste job. On the left side at the paste line there's another anomaly
with the fence, but I can't recall exactly what that one was, it's been so long since
I examined it.

Over all, I don't much care what they've told us, if these events were real, then there should not be even one fake photo, and/or if there was one, it should have been way out numbered by the number of real photos and videos. The science says all the videos and photos are fake.
Thus, one has no other choice but to conclude that these claimed events never happened.
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Godspeed2012
post Mar 4 2014, 12:52 PM
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On the topic of Shills, disnfo, and all that pretend you are a truther crap is quite unintelligent on this site no?

Look at all the poor attempts to derail this thread. Look at all the finger pointing yet you the evidence that FLIGHT 93 DID NOT CRASH IN SHANKSVILLE on September 11th 2001. The Crater in SHANKSVILLE WAS NOT CAUSED BY A BOEING 757 AKA FLIGHT 93 on September 11th 2001 as the images in the first page show.

Would you amateurs please start another thread rather than practice these tactics.

Check out this picture I made years ago, I am sure everyone has seen it.


As reminder to the mods if there are any, would you please moderate and keep the topic on topic and delete derailing posts?

Letsroll, cheers, lol.
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Godspeed2012
post Mar 4 2014, 12:56 PM
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This thread is not about Radars, or the twin towers, or about Val and her camera. Its about the crater and how it is only 15 feet wide and 10 feet deep, the mistake is thinking that the weathered ravine was caused by wings which it wasnt.

A 10 foot deep hole was not caused by a Boeing 757 but by something very small maybe the size of a small van as one of the last eyewitnesses saw but that is another topic.
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Scooby
post Mar 11 2014, 12:16 PM
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My two cents on the crater the official report states the plane hit at close to a 45 degree angle. If that were the case a massive amount of earth would have been launched/displaced by the impact. There should be a debris field of dirt radiating out from the impact site.

Also if it hit at a 45 degree angle the black box would not be in that hole. Strange that the bulk of the plane vanishes but the black box is in that hole.

The study showing no traces of jet fuel in the soil or ground water is IMO direct evidence no plane crashed there.
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NP1Mike
post Dec 1 2017, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Mar 4 2014, 02:10 AM) *
... but getting back on topic... for the record np1mike, do you agree that the hole in shanksville is staged/fabricated? and do you agree that a plane did not crash into that small hole out there?


Sorry for the 3+ year delay in responding to your questions. smile.gif
I have been a regular at the site since your post; I just didn't see your questions until now.

Yes the hole was obviously staged/fabricated. No plane crash at Shanksville.


QUOTE
... last note: im not trying to be condescending in repeatedly using your full screen name np1mike, its just that there are so many mikes around lately i dont want to risk any confusion! cheers.gif


No problem.


The reason I was taking a peek at these Shanksville posts now was because of some recent work done by James Perloff.
In the section where he talks about Flt 93. he references another site that links to a newspaper story discussing airplane parts/debris in the vicinity of Shanksville 'crash site'.

When I read that I immediately thought about Amazed here because he had asked me in a post at this site where there was any proof of wreckage from Flt 93 outside the crash site/hole.

Here is the newspaper article referenced.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060113181450/...ch/s_12969.html

Note the part about the engine found a considerable distance from the crash site.
Now think to yourself...

The official story is that the plane was not shot down, that it crashed intact.
So how do you get the plane to vaporize into the hole (leaving the requisite red hijacker bandanas etc.)
and have one of its engines turn up "at a considerable distance from the crash site" fully intact?




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amazed!
post Dec 7 2017, 09:10 AM
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They can't have it both ways, can they Mike?
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NP1Mike
post Dec 7 2017, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Dec 7 2017, 09:10 AM) *
They can't have it both ways, can they Mike?



Exactly.

One thing that I find most frustrating about all things 9/11-related is that there is no government spokesperson who can
answer questions or explain conflicting evidence such as that mentioned above.


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