McDonnell-Douglas F4 Phantom II, Vietnam era Fighter/Bomber Options

[Omega892R09]

The Americen version J79-GE15/17s only had the lower aux doors.

Yes I knew that but was indicating the lack of aft aux-air doors, perhaps I should have been more specific. The highlighting in the image I posted was for the benefit of those not familiar with any F4 variant.

Am I correct in thinking that auxiliary air was bled out of the rear around the jet nozzles? This impractical on the F4K because of the extra diameter of the Spey AB compared to the J79.

Other differences on an F4K were the double 20 inch extension on the noseleg (40 inch in total) for catapult launch, and the consequent lesser stabilator anhedral. Also the F4K had a leading edge fixed slat, or slot, on the underside of the stabilator. Then of course the IFR was an aircraft probe into a tanker trailed basket affair. The main undercarriage wheels were also thicker in section requiring an enlarged upper wing surface fairing.

Have you ever tried to do a engine start using a cartridge?

Not on an F4 but yes several times on Hawker Hunters. These had a triple breech, as did the Avons on the Canberra, with a cartridge exhaust on the underside of the fuselage, about 6 inches away from an overboard fuel dump!



Here is a clip of a Hunter with a cartridge start:




similar for a Canberra:

Usually on the J79-GE15/17 you ended up getting at least one bad cart , so you would end up only getting one engine started. Sometimes you would get two bad carts and could not get either engine started.

That was why the Avon had a triple breech for three separate attempts, also useful if visiting a station that does not operate Hunters, although the access door for the breech carried a stowage for three more cart's. These things were like very large shotgun cartridges but brass cased. I am sure that changing these things helped to cause the shoulder troubles that I know get.

The proximity of the starter exhaust to the fuel overflow mast on the underside of the Hunter was one factor in a wild start-up. One of our units Hunters had been snagged for engine vibration. There being a couple of reasons for this, including incipient turbine failure (some checks done before this next run) or a faulty auxiliary drive, we decided to run it up and check it out. It was the turn of a colleague CPO to do the cockpit bit so I left him walking out do the cockpit checks whilst went via the hangar to collect a pair of CO2 extinguishers. As I was walking towards the Hunter I noticed that the CPO was in the cockpit and the cut down oil drum on a small four wheeled trolley used to collect overboard fuel was still underneath. Shouting to grab Chieffie's attention failed and he was not looking in my direction when I realised that he had pressed the starter tit!

Fortunately there was quite a bit of fuel in the bin and this absorbed all exhaust heat in vaporisation. A vapour cloud of fuel was sucked foreward and then straight into the intakes. I had dropped one extinguisher as I ran in towards the aircraft frantically signalling to 'cut' and ready to operate the CO2 if necessary. Chief meanwhile, probably warned by an off the clock JPT reading, had realised things were not AOK and shut down.

Cartridge starting was common to many aircraft types I recall the story about the RN Sea Hawk Squadron mass start up which caused the fire crews at a US airstation to be called out - allegedly because nobody had thought to tell the Americans what to expect!

[Omega892R09]

The Americen version J79-GE15/17s only had the lower aux doors.

Have you ever tried to do a engine start using a cartridge?

Usually on the J79-GE15/17 you ended up getting at least one bad cart , so you would end up only getting one engine started. Sometimes you would get two bad carts and could not get either engine started.

I replied to this and inserted some video links which worked fine on a preview but then I had a long pause, an unexpected caller, and when I posted the links were munged. The result is now in the Trash, for awhile anyway. WTF (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif)

[rob balsamo]

I replied to this and inserted some video links which worked fine on a preview but then I had a long pause, an unexpected caller, and when I posted the links were munged. The result is now in the Trash, for awhile anyway. WTF (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif)

fixed and merged above.

[Omega892R09]

fixed and merged above.

Thanks Rob. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I have no idea why there was a problem. I used the Embed button on YouTube and it now brings up stuff starting "<iframe title=". Right mouse click on the image and selecting Copy embed html on menu fetches the Right Stuff. SHID (shakes head in disbelief).

[ULTIMA1]

Anyone hear about the Special F-4X recon project that Israel had?

They were going to modify an American F-4 with water tanks so it could have water injection for the engines and supposidly do Mach 3.

http://acecombat.wikia.com/wiki/F-4X
It called for the development of an advanced F-4 housing the HIAC-1 reconnaissance camera

The aircraft, fitted with dual 2500-gallon conformal water tanks for increased engine efficiency, would be able to break Mach 3 and be capable of cruising speeds around Mach 2.7, allowing Israel unhindered intelligence-gathering capabilities and would bring up a contender for the formidable SR-71 Blackbird.

(IMG:http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071215155903/acecombat/images/6/6f/Image1gg7.jpg)

This post has been edited by ULTIMA1: Feb 17 2011, 12:59 AM

[Omega892R09]

Anyone hear about the Special F-4X recon project that Israel had?

Yes. It has an entry in McDonnell F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies along with other interesting proposed variants including one with a swing wing F-4J(FV)S and F-4M(FV)S.

[ULTIMA1]

Here is a photo of a German F-4 doing a cartridge start on the right side.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany---A...F-4F/1094823/L/
(IMG:http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/3/2/8/1094823.jpg)

[ULTIMA1]

For those interested there is a memorial for recon aircrews of the cold war.

The National Vigilance Park at Ft. Meade, MD (near NSA) was started to honor the sacrifices of aerial reconnaissance crews.

Crews that lost thier lives and loved ones were never told what happened to them due to classified missions.

http://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic_herit...ark/index.shtml

(IMG:http://www.nsa.gov/about/_images/aerial_recon_planes.jpg)