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Was Video Fakery Used On 9/11?, Planes vs no planes

paulmichael
post Feb 20 2014, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 20 2014, 05:25 PM) *
** it is actually rather simple - there were 100+ ton aircrafts flying at 100s of m/s against just <40 tons of the wall panels covering the more or less almost perpendicular impact crossection area of <40m2 and area around it, moreover each of them connected to the rest of the wall structure literally just by <100 bolts which could snap opon the force of the impact, moreover this panels were at the same time already pulled in inward direction by statical force exerted on them by the floors hanging on them and so even facilitating the penetration, moreover ~40% of the "walls" were just windows being no significant obstacle to the penetration whatsoever anyway... -it is immediately clear that zero momentum of 40 tons can't arrest momentum of 100+ tons impacting it and it has really not much to do with what materials face each other there - and anyway a lead bullet also can penetrate inches of solid steel armor if having a sufficient speed...


Well, OK, but you are making this statement after the fact.

How could the 9/11 concoctors be confident that the aircraft penetrations would play out as the videos would have you believe?

Maybe my brother was correct. He feels that with so much filthy lucre at stake out of 9/11, the concoctors probably invested enough money to build a full scale replica of the WTC to test their proposed methods.

I personally feel that it would be much less involved to test a directed energy weapon, you know, like the one that is capable of disrupting the whole Earth's magnetic field as was the case on 9/11 at the time of the alleged aircraft strikes.

P.M. (Confidential to NP1Mike: Apparently you were never in the old WTC complex, as I was, quite frequently, in fact, because, if you were, then you would never raise the prospect of an underground evacuation as being practical and plausible on 9/11.)
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NP1Mike
post Feb 20 2014, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (paulmichael @ Feb 20 2014, 05:54 PM) *
P.M. (Confidential to NP1Mike: Apparently you were never in the old WTC complex, as I was, quite frequently, in fact, because, if you were, then you would never raise the prospect of an underground evacuation as being practical and plausible on 9/11.)


I saw it happen in a video, photos and in reports.
That's good enough for me.
But then, I'm easy to please. smile.gif
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Shallel
post Feb 20 2014, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (michael72 @ Feb 17 2014, 04:11 AM) *
Sorry, if this has been posted before. I scanned and did not see it. The person who put this together seems to be an expert on what technology can do in video. We all have seen movies with extraordinary effects, so was something like this part of the 9/11 scam? I certainly think its possible. Evidence on here alone, and elsewhere as well trashes the USG account. I won't recount them all, but we know there is lots, so were there any real highjacking or were they faked highjacks? We know it was not 19 Arabs, or at the least, if they were part of the conspiracy (the plan) they could not have flown the maneuvers into the towers. I have favored drone substitutes that were the tower hits. With no evidence of strikes at the Pentagon and Shanksville...were there no planes at the Towers? Was it a bigger psy-op than we first thought? Was imagery inserted into the newscasts we all watched? Technically, this video certainly makes a strong statement that it COULD have been done. Compared to the whole country, relatively few people were in NYC and actually would have seen planes or no planes. And of course, anyone saying they saw no planes would not be aired if it countered the planned deception.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDWP0Wn6xpo


Finally some sense! With all the ground-breaking, top notch information put out by P4T, I could never understand the resistance to the obviously faked plane crashes on 9/11. (All 4 of them.) Baker's science is the best in the field. He has proven numerous ways why and how any plane could not defy numerous laws of physics and aerodynamics.

Here are some facts: ( Some from Baker, some my own, and some from other sources. )

1. No deceleration - take any video of FL175, and step through frame. It takes the same number of frames to fly through it's own length in air as it does when it "contacts" the superstructure. F=ma=m(0)=0 Therefore there was no force on the plane or the building.

2. When stabilizing the footage, the motion of the plane becomes more unstable. Therefore the plane has been filmed by a different camera.

3. Every aircraft is constructed of parts. Every single part has a serial number. Every serial number is tracked and mapped to a specific aircraft, with a specific tail number. NONE were ever produced.

4. No wingtip vortex.

5. No shattering, no crumpling, no twisting, rotation, or alteration of trajectory when hitting massive steel structure.

6. Impossible speed.

7. Even the smallest risk of the target not being hit properly would be completely unacceptable, given the easily manageable nature of any problems associated with the alternative scenario.

8. In an actual crash, the plane would smash itself to pieces against the building, doing little damage to the building and the wreckage falling mostly to the street.

9. The plane-shaped holes in the WTC towers (and in Shanksville and to a lesser degree the Pentagon) are not physically plausible for real plane crashes.

10. Planted evidence does not match WTC Tower. See https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/7-70...-wtc1-panel.jpg - The tire is lodged in a wall section clearly not matching the Tower's design.

"The ultimate conclusion is that the so-called “mainstream media” is a willing propaganda organ of the U.S. government, complicit in mass murder on 9/11." - Ace Baker

The Great American Psy-Opera: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEA05F393EC843D80

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paulmichael
post Feb 20 2014, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 20 2014, 06:03 PM) *
I saw it happen in a video, photos and in reports.
That's good enough for me.
But then, I'm easy to please. smile.gif

Gee, I've seen more reports about 9/11 than anyone really should have, and today is the first I am hearing of underground evacuations at the WTC. I must admit that some people may have made their way out via underground means, but certainly not great volumes of people, no way!

So, tell me. Were people herded down to the lower parking levels? How... by limited elevators which fireman would know enough not to use in an emergency?

STOP!

If the first responders knew enough to order an underground evacuation after the alleged strike on the North Tower, then they must have known what to expect at the South Tower. Huh?

CONTINUING...

Did they herd people down two stairwells in each tower only to lead them to one of two vehicle entrance/exit ramps, one being on Vesey St. which would put people on the street roughly below the north face of the North Tower which was allegedly just struck? I don't think so.

Alternatively, did the people exit the parking garage by the vehicle entrance/exit ramp on West St. which would put people outdoors in harm's way roughly to the west of the North Tower. I don't think so.

Sending people four or five levels below the concourse level to the PATH station would make no sense whatsoever. Where would they go from there... into the rail tunnels? No, I don't think so.

The last alternatives were exits to subway stations. The better alternative would have had people going to the northeast corner of the concourse where they'd do a zig and zag and reach FOUR DOORS to the platforms where the E-train tracks terminated. Just FOUR DOORS. If you could imagine the throngs of people in the concourse level, especially if additional throngs were still coming up seven or eight escalators in the central concourse from the PATH station, then you'd liken the bottleneck at those four doors to sands in an hour glass taking up the days of our lives.

The volume of people that would be able to pass through the other subway entrance (I think it was for the R train or the number 1 train) would be limited to far less than the volume capable of passing through the four doors as noted above. From there people would go up to street level...where?... right in the vicinity of the WTC.

If the first responders had no idea of the impending [alleged] strike on the South Tower, then, with just the incident at the North Tower at the northwest corner of the WTC being a concern, it would make reasonable sense to allow a street level evacuation to the south of the WTC meaning Liberty St. It would also make reasonable sense to allow a street level evacuation to the east meaning Church St.

People streaming out of the WTC onto Liberty St or Church St. would put them in great harm's way a moment or two after the alleged UA175 strike on the South Tower IF THERE WERE, IN FACT, THE BLAST OF DEBRIS AS DEPICTED IN QUITE A FEW PHOTOS AND VIDEOS. Yet, there weren't any such injuries. Why?

And let's not forget the evacuations of One Liberty Plaza just across Church St. from the WTC. Let's not forget the evacuation of the former Banker's Trust Building (Deutsche Bank Building at time of 9/11) which was just across Liberty St. from the south face of the South Tower. People streaming out of these buildings with NO underground means of egress would be put right in harm's way by debris falling a moment after the alleged UA175 strike. Yet, there weren't any such injuries. Why?

Additionally, the streets in the vicinity of the WTC would be crowded with throngs of pedestrians having nothing to do with the WTC. So, could it have been possible to clear the area of all these people and keep them far back enough to keep them out of harm's way when no further harm was really anticipated? Imagine: all this having been accomplished in about 15 minutes between the alleged strikes on the North Tower and the South Tower. I certainly can't imagine it.

I invite someone to explain how, with the huge fireballs depicted affecting quite a few occupied floors of the North and South Towers, there were only two burn victims out of all of that and at ground level no less... bogus burn victims, no less!

I also cannot understand how this can be explained away by citing the death of a fireman who was struck by a person jumping from a high floor of one of the towers. The jumpings occurred quite a few minutes after the alleged aircraft strikes. The issue here is the lack of injuries that should have been inflicted upon people at ground level by flying debris moments after the alleged strikes, particularly the one on the South Tower.

There were no fireballs. There was no flying debris immediately after the alleged impacts upon the towers.

P.M. (There were no planes.)

This post has been edited by paulmichael: Feb 20 2014, 08:58 PM
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NP1Mike
post Feb 20 2014, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE (paulmichael @ Feb 20 2014, 07:47 PM) *
If the first responders knew enough to order an underground evacuation after the alleged strike on the North Tower, then they must have known what to expect at the South Tower. Huh?


The first responders obviously didn't know that WTC2 would be struck soon after.
The underground evacuation was ordered to prevent injuries/death from people jumping from WTC1 and debris falling.

I don't know the underground system at the towers.
I don't know all the routes that were used that day for evacuation.
But if you are persistent enough, you should be able to contact some of the hundreds/thousands who were evacuated and ask them.

One famous evacuee, John Labriola, took an underground route with dozens of people, that led to WTC5.
You could try to contact him and ask him about how the group he was with got there exactly.

QUOTE
There were no fireballs. There was no flying debris immediately after the alleged impacts upon the towers.

P.M. (There were no planes.)


Thanks to your friend MikeR, I was able to watch a video he recommended yesterday with David Long
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQbEuBgAKso
where David states in no uncertain terms that he saw, firsthand, a huge fireball and flying debris.

So much for the statement you made yesterday:

"Actually, I cannot recall a single person claiming to have been an on-the-street eyewitness of the strikes on the WTC mentioning fireballs, and this would include suspected shills."


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paulmichael
post Feb 20 2014, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 20 2014, 09:05 PM) *
One famous evacuee, John Labriola, took an underground route with dozens of people, that led to WTC5.
You could try to contact him and ask him about how the group he was with got there exactly.


I don't need to contact John Labriola.

You must be referring to the concourse level of the WTC, which, at the northeast corner of the WTC complex where WTC 5 was, was one escalator flight down from street level.

At the southeast corner, the concourse was a few steps above or below street level, I don't remember. The concourse also met the first floor lobbies of the towers both of which were at street level.

If that group to which you refer exited the WTC through WTC 5, I don't really see how they would have been kept out of harm's way.

QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 20 2014, 09:05 PM) *
David states in no uncertain terms that he saw, firsthand, a huge fireball and flying debris.

So much for the statement you made yesterday:

"Actually, I cannot recall a single person claiming to have been an on-the-street eyewitness of the strikes on the WTC mentioning fireballs, and this would include suspected shills."


I maintain that I cannot recall any such person.

What I do know is a person who is so susceptible to suggestion that if she were out in California viewing the events of 9/11 unfold on T.V., then later she would swear that she had been on the streets of lower Manhattan witnessing things firsthand.

P.M.


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onesliceshort
post Feb 20 2014, 11:00 PM
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I'll throw this in for good measure (I'm hardly expecting a response going by the track record in this thread)

QUOTE
We have to remember that this aircraft was allegedly travelling at over 700 feet per second. Over 4 times its own length travelled in one second as it impacted the facade.

The length of the fuselage from the nose to the wings is 60ft. The aircraft's recorded speed would cover that 60ft distance in less than a tenth of a second.

When the 60ft of fuselage appears to penetrate the facade, this could be down to optical illusion. The event was over in one tenth of a second.

Here's a video that's as close as I could find to the collision of a hard steel object (steel sled) against a bulky object such as the fuselage. A car.

Normal speed



Slow motion (pay attention to the actual collision at the beginning of the video)



See how the car appears to "melt" or "disappear"? The actual interaction was over in a fraction of a second.
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NP1Mike
post Feb 20 2014, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (paulmichael @ Feb 20 2014, 09:44 PM) *
I don't need to contact John Labriola.

You must be referring to the concourse level of the WTC, which, at the northeast corner of the WTC complex where WTC 5 was, was one escalator flight down from street level.

At the southeast corner, the concourse was a few steps above or below street level, I don't remember. The concourse also met the first floor lobbies of the towers both of which were at street level.


Yup, that's the level I was referring to.

QUOTE
If that group to which you refer exited the WTC through WTC 5, I don't really see how they would have been kept out of harm's way.


Take a look at a map of the WTC complex and you will see that the exit onto Church St. from WTC5 is way out of harms way from the debris falling from WTC2.
Not out of harms way for the _destruction of the towers, but that is a completely different matter from what we are discussing here.

QUOTE
I maintain that I cannot recall any such person.


Yes and literally, of course you are right.
But that's not the point.

The point is that I have NOW brought to your attention a person who did witness the fireball first hand.
And just yesterday you were thirsting for such knowledge.
Try to be happy that you have it now OK?

From this day forward you will no longer be able to state:
"I maintain that I cannot recall any such person."

And the funny thing is that this all comes courtesy of MikeR!
I wouldn't have known it myself, if it hadn't been for Mike's great work on this.

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paulmichael
post Feb 21 2014, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 20 2014, 10:25 PM) *
Take a look at a map of the WTC complex and you will see that the exit onto Church St. from WTC5 is way out of harms way from the debris falling from WTC2.
Not out of harms way for the _destruction of the towers, but that is a completely different matter from what we are discussing here.


Still pictures and (video for that matter) here on this website show debris being blasted away amid a very powerful fireball coming out of the north face of the WTC South Tower.

The bolts holding the outer framework of the towers together have been raised as issues.

If the cited photos were real, certainly smaller fragments of shrapnel like the bolts would have been blown from the South Tower to the northeast corner of the complex and beyond. People exiting WTC 5 were certainly in harm's way IF THE PHOTOS IN QUESTION WERE GENUINE. And you know what? The much larger pieces of shrapnel should have been shot that far and farther. But you did not hear of shrapnel of any size raining down on the street (if not on people) from that "blast."

QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 20 2014, 10:25 PM) *
The point is that I have NOW brought to your attention a person who did witness the fireball first hand.
And just yesterday you were thirsting for such knowledge.
Try to be happy that you have it now OK?


Hmmmmm, let's put this into perspective:

Of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people north of the WTC, west of the WTC in New Jersey, east of the WTC in Brooklyn and Queens, south of the WTC on Staten Island and on the Staten Island ferry who were observing a smoldering North Tower at the time of the alleged strike on the South Tower, you come up with a single person who avows to have witnessed fireballs at the South Tower.

Wow, I'm impressed.

To repeat: What I do know is a person who is so susceptible to suggestion that if she were out in California viewing the events of 9/11 unfold on T.V., then later she would swear that she had been on the streets of lower Manhattan witnessing things firsthand.

P.M.

This post has been edited by paulmichael: Feb 21 2014, 06:31 AM
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NP1Mike
post Feb 21 2014, 09:50 PM
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OK Paul, I shouldn't have to do your homework for you, but since I am such a kind soul,
I will do it this one time.

QUOTE (paulmichael @ Feb 21 2014, 05:28 AM) *
Still pictures and (video for that matter) here on this website show debris being blasted away amid a very powerful fireball coming out of the north face of the WTC South Tower.

... If the cited photos were real, certainly smaller fragments of shrapnel like the bolts would have been blown from the South Tower to the northeast corner of the complex and beyond...
But you did not hear of shrapnel of any size raining down on the street (if not on people) from that "blast."


... Of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people north of the WTC, west of the WTC in New Jersey, east of the WTC in Brooklyn and Queens, south of the WTC on Staten Island and on the Staten Island ferry who were observing a smoldering North Tower at the time of the alleged strike on the South Tower, you come up with a single person who avows to have witnessed fireballs at the South Tower.

Wow, I'm impressed.



PM, there were lots and lots of injuries and casualties in the streets from the two plane strikes.
Here is just a small sampling from some of the first responders on the scene on 9/11 which included, but was not limited to, FDNY Commissioners, Firefighters, Firechiefs, EMT’s, EMS workers.
They will tell you about the casualties and plane debris they witnessed in the streets.
A few will also tell you about the fireball you used to claim no one saw:


EMT-D RALPH RAMOS
The second plane hit right over top of us and all the debris started falling down on top of us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EMT ORLANDO MARTINEZ
Once the second plane hit, the shrapnel from either the plane or the building started hitting the top of the bus and the area around us. Anybody who was near the ambulance ran inside the ambulance and ducked for cover.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
CHIEF OF THE DEPARTMENT DANIEL NIGRO FDNY

At some point after our arrival and after we had moved to the west side of West Street, I heard a loud roar of a jet, looked up and saw the second plane impact the south tower. At that point it was clear to me it was a terrorist attack. We stepped over small airplane aviation parts, on Vesey, continued west, continued looking at the building.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTAIN MICHAEL DONOVAN FDNY WTC2 2nd plane hits
We were actually still on Church Street. We heard the plane briefly, the earth shook, the buildings shook, a tremendous fireball overhead.
I thought there was a bomb or an explosion. A tremendous fireball, flaming debris, pieces of the airplane, fuselage, landing gear, pieces of the building.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER PETE GUIDETTI
I was right on Broadway when the second plane hit . Shit and debris flying all over the place, people screaming, running for their lives.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
CHIEF ALBERT TURI FDNY
WTC2 plane
I turned around to assess the situation, and the fireball had pretty much dissipated, and what I actually thought at that time, and mistakenly so, was it's not as bad as it looks; most of the fuel was expended on the exterior of the building. So we ran back to the car and laying right in back of my car was a large object which I thought was probably part of one of the aircraft turbines.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH CASALIGGI
It was at that time when I saw the second plane hit the building. I called a mayday. I told them the second plane hit the south tower of the building. I wasn't sure which floors it was, but I knew it hit the upper floors of the south tower. Debris was falling, body parts were falling. We ducked for cover inside Engine 7, but the rig was getting bombarded with debris from the building, debris from the plane. We saw bodies crash landing right next to the rig. So we couldn't stay there.
------------------------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER STEVE PICCERILL
All of a sudden i turned away and heard a tremendous explosion and turned around that was the second plane hitting the trade center. We were driving out of the tunnel up west street and we re seeing body parts in the street torsos chunks of flesh parts of the airplane landing gear car fires everywhere it was like war zone.
-----------------------------------------------------------
EMS DIVISION CHIEF JOHN PERUGGIA (Battery tunnel & West)
I passed over some pieces of what appeared to be aircraft wreckage, fuselage, whatever, some body parts and bodies in various states, either people from the building or the airplanes. You couldn't tell. They weren't intact.
--------------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER ROBERT NORRIS (Battery tunnel & West)
From the brooklyn battery tunnel as regular engine company not the squad or any other companies and there was number of airplane parts throughout the street littering the streets as well considerable amount of body parts that were all over the street that were guess either from the airplane passengers orthat might have been up on the tower working.
----------------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MCCABE West below Liberty
heading north on west street i’m looking ahead i remember kind of leaning forward and looking up and seeing the smoke in the buildings. i remember at one point seeing what looked like piece of an airplane. That piece of plane looked like it crushed half that car.
--------------------------------------------------
EMT STEPHEN HESS West below Liberty
Came through the tunnel, and our initial response was seeing body parts and airplane parts all over the west side. West HW
-------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL HAZEL jet engine on West near Liberty
But we eventually got through the tunnel, and at first we started seeing bits and pieces, when we turned up West Street, of the plane and of what turned out to be body parts. But the closer we got, the bigger the parts got, the plane parts and the body parts, That's when he started trying to snake his way up West Street. There was a lot of debris in the street and I We just passed a compact car where the engine was running and the door was open, which looked to me like the driver had escaped, but from the back seat to the trunk was crushed by a jet engine. We started going up West Street. I believe that's when Smitty ran over the part of the plane, but he did that to avoid the bodies because there were obviously bodies in the street
---------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH SULLIVAN West below Liberty
As we were riding in, we must have ran over some debris from the plane. We saw debris all over the floor. We saw a wheel. There was cars that were flattened. It was obvious that heavy things had fallen on them.
---------------------------------------------------
EMS ROGER MOORE body parts on West below Liberty
While we were walking we noticed three blocks away from the trade center that there were body parts scattered all over the roadway and that there were police officers trying to safeguard the body pieces.
Q. Were they civilians or you think they were from the aircraft?
A. Unknown.
---------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER HUGH METTHAM
Debris from plane crash on West below Liberty
It was just south of liberty on west street that we first encountered debris from the plane crashes.


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NP1Mike
post Feb 21 2014, 09:54 PM
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I didn't want to overwhelm you with too much to read at once PM.
Here are more first responders who witnessed casualties and plane debris:


FIREFIGHTER CRAIG MONAHAN airplane parts on West below Liberty
That was before we got to the south pedestrian bridge, before Liberty Street . You could see airplane parts just littered across the street , across the highway
---------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MURRAY
pieces of plane on West below Liberty
We got under the bridge that goes from the FDR into West Street and there was -- it was unbelievable. There was jumpers everywhere, there was bodies everywhere, pieces of plane everywhere.
--------------------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER ARTHUR RICCIO Vesey near Church St
We walked down Vesey Street, and it was like total silence, nothing. It was eerie. There were police cars all parked on angles, metal going through their hoods. There was a tire of a plane on top of one.
---------------------------------------------------
EMT RICHARD ZARRILLO Vesey near Broadway
Captain Nahmod and I were running down Vesey Street stepping over airplane pieces, several bodies and whatnot. There was what looked like the front wheel assembly of an airplane. Unknown the size of the plane that had hit, it just looked like it was one pair of wheels on an assembly, pieces of metal with rivets in them, a few body parts scattered around.
----------------------------------------------------
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER JAMES DRURY FDNY airplane debris on Vesey near WTC7
You could see airplane parts on the ground and although I didn't realize it at the time, I later realized there were body parts, both on the concourse and on the street. (some of these might have been jumpers) I now made a left on Vesey and walked down the street on the 7 World Trade Center side, where I could see more airplane debris
-----------------------------------------------
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER THOMAS FlTZPATRlCK FDNY near WTC7
Various pieces of the plane were falling on the street. As we went down the street you could see parts of aircraft with stencil numbers on it and things like that. There was a wheel, or like a wheel housing or something else there in the street.
-------------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER PAUL HYLAND
Church and Vesey. We were coming across and we walked down. We had to go down to the command center. We carried all our tools, the bottles, everything, and as we're walking down, part of the plane engine was sitting right in the street, still burning. I said, look, this is the plane.
-----------------------------------------
FIREFIGHTER ROBERT HUMPHREY
When I was on Church Street, I saw a lot of bodies laying all over the place
--------------------------------------------
BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN DIXON FDNY piece of a plane
I continued down Liberty, just west of 10 and 10. As I got down a little farther, there was what looked to be a piece of the cabin of the airplane, I guess. It looked like a piece of it about maybe six foot long. It looked like the windows.
-------------------------------------
CAPTAIN RAY GOLDBACH
The four of us got out of the car, we started to cross Broadway, and the second plane went into the other tower. I don’t know what time it was, but Tom McDonald yelled something like “Holy Shit, oh, fuck!”. He hit the ground out on the street. We all got up. We kept walking.
I believe we went down – I don’t know whether it was Dey or Cortlandt Street. We walked down that block. It was littered with airplane parts, pieces of the building.


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paulmichael
post Feb 21 2014, 10:18 PM
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Confidential to You Know Who You Are:

It bears repeating: "If you are going to be a liar, then you'd better have a good memory."

What should be remembered are the following two proverbs:

1.) When you are deep in a hole, it would be wise to stop digging; and

2.) Oh, what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive.

P.M.
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paulmichael
post Feb 24 2014, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 21 2014, 08:54 PM) *
I didn't want to overwhelm you with too much to read at once PM.
Here are more first responders who witnessed casualties and plane debris:


FIREFIGHTER CRAIG MONAHAN airplane parts on West below Liberty
That was before we got to the south pedestrian bridge, before Liberty Street . You could see airplane parts just littered across the street , across the highway
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FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MURRAY
pieces of plane on West below Liberty
We got under the bridge that goes from the FDR into West Street and there was -- it was unbelievable. There was jumpers everywhere, there was bodies everywhere, pieces of plane everywhere.
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FIREFIGHTER ARTHUR RICCIO Vesey near Church St
We walked down Vesey Street, and it was like total silence, nothing. It was eerie. There were police cars all parked on angles, metal going through their hoods. There was a tire of a plane on top of one.
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EMT RICHARD ZARRILLO Vesey near Broadway
Captain Nahmod and I were running down Vesey Street stepping over airplane pieces, several bodies and whatnot. There was what looked like the front wheel assembly of an airplane. Unknown the size of the plane that had hit, it just looked like it was one pair of wheels on an assembly, pieces of metal with rivets in them, a few body parts scattered around.
----------------------------------------------------
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER JAMES DRURY FDNY airplane debris on Vesey near WTC7
You could see airplane parts on the ground and although I didn't realize it at the time, I later realized there were body parts, both on the concourse and on the street. (some of these might have been jumpers) I now made a left on Vesey and walked down the street on the 7 World Trade Center side, where I could see more airplane debris
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DEPUTY COMMISSIONER THOMAS FlTZPATRlCK FDNY near WTC7
Various pieces of the plane were falling on the street. As we went down the street you could see parts of aircraft with stencil numbers on it and things like that. There was a wheel, or like a wheel housing or something else there in the street.
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FIREFIGHTER PAUL HYLAND
Church and Vesey. We were coming across and we walked down. We had to go down to the command center. We carried all our tools, the bottles, everything, and as we're walking down, part of the plane engine was sitting right in the street, still burning. I said, look, this is the plane.
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FIREFIGHTER ROBERT HUMPHREY
When I was on Church Street, I saw a lot of bodies laying all over the place
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BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN DIXON FDNY piece of a plane
I continued down Liberty, just west of 10 and 10. As I got down a little farther, there was what looked to be a piece of the cabin of the airplane, I guess. It looked like a piece of it about maybe six foot long. It looked like the windows.
-------------------------------------
CAPTAIN RAY GOLDBACH
The four of us got out of the car, we started to cross Broadway, and the second plane went into the other tower. I don’t know what time it was, but Tom McDonald yelled something like “Holy Shit, oh, fuck!”. He hit the ground out on the street. We all got up. We kept walking.
I believe we went down – I don’t know whether it was Dey or Cortlandt Street. We walked down that block. It was littered with airplane parts, pieces of the building.


Well, if you are looking for some kind of rebuttal to your prior reply, I'll just have to provide it in the form of insight which is found in a policy statement for this forum.

It follows having been borrowed from a pinned post in the Debate subforum, composed by painter.

The first three sentences applies to me and the rest applies to___.

"I want to be very clear: I DO NOT KNOW PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11! I do not claim to know... BUT IF YOU ARE HERE TO DISRUPT UNDER THE FALSE PRETENSE OF POLITE MANNERS AND ASKING QUESTIONS WHICH SIMPLY GET PEOPLE TO ARGUE INDEFINITELY ABOUT THINGS THAT CAN NEVER BE PROVEN ABSENT A GENUINE INVESTIGATION WITH SUBPOENA POWER IN A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE OR A COURT OF LAW, THEN KNOW THAT I WILL BAN YOUR ASS WHEN I GET TIRED OF KICKING THE HELL OUT OF IT."

I refer you to painter. Take the matter up with him.

Goodbye.

P.M.

This post has been edited by paulmichael: Feb 24 2014, 03:26 PM
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Truthissweet
post Nov 3 2014, 11:43 AM
Post #34





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Was this the start of media cover-up on TV?
(not sure if this has been covered on forum. Didn't see anything in a search.)
Check the time clock on a couple of the weather broadcasts.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xWjdYnpxUg

HAARP?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=13-0HrV0pqs

There is a HAARP in Quebec. Something to think about on a boring Monday in early November.
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ogrady
post Jan 15 2015, 10:10 PM
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Sorry to be coming into this conversation a bit late but for some reason I can't access the original video you mention in the first post. I want to see it. Does anyone know if it's been removed?
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Truthissweet
post Feb 6 2015, 03:35 PM
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Group: Private Forum Pilot
Posts: 245
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QUOTE (ogrady @ Jan 15 2015, 09:10 PM) *
Sorry to be coming into this conversation a bit late but for some reason I can't access the original video you mention in the first post. I want to see it. Does anyone know if it's been removed?


The video in post #1 of this thread is no longer available because the Youtube is no longer active. There are quite a few 911 Youtube videos posted thru the past years that are no longer available. I wonder why?
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amazed!
post Feb 21 2015, 11:43 AM
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The internet sure makes it easy for the bad guys to write history. Remove any reference to facts that contradict the official narrative, and voila, history according to Dubya.
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