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Doubletree Hotel Pics And Angles Thead, for analysis of the videotape

waterdancer
post Dec 5 2006, 06:20 AM
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Alternate parking lot field of view. I don't know which is correct. I'm sure with a better quality video I could tell. Sigh.


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Drakey
post Dec 5 2006, 06:21 AM
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and, btw... your camera position is way off, its more like this:




This post has been edited by Drakey: Dec 5 2006, 06:22 AM
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waterdancer
post Dec 5 2006, 06:22 AM
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QUOTE (Drakey @ Dec 5 2006, 10:10 AM)

Nice!
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waterdancer
post Dec 5 2006, 06:24 AM
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QUOTE (Drakey @ Dec 5 2006, 10:21 AM)
and, btw... your camera position is way off, its more like this:



Could be. I can't tell for sure. Chances are you are correct. I did one for each parking lot. I can't see the flags in the video, maybe that's just my bad eyes.

This post has been edited by waterdancer: Dec 5 2006, 06:26 AM
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Drakey
post Dec 5 2006, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE (waterdancer @ Dec 5 2006, 10:24 AM)
QUOTE (Drakey @ Dec 5 2006, 10:21 AM)
and, btw... your camera position is way off, its more like this:

Could be. I can't tell for sure. Chances are you are correct. I did one for each parking lot. I can't see the flags in the video, maybe that's just my bad eyes.

the 2nd ones u posted are better, the first ones have the lines comming from a diff parking lot - which i was referring to smile.gif

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Drakey
post Dec 5 2006, 06:34 AM
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the question is now, if the tree was "put in" - which it seems likely it could of been.. how come ?

what does the tree cover ? cant we see the blast anyway ? distraction ?
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paranoia
post Dec 6 2006, 02:18 AM
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ok let me start by recanting/retracting my statement about the passerby in the video. after watching it (zoomed in) about 1 million and 1 times, it appears that the guy definitely notices the explosion. in fact it looks like he stops, turns towards it, and possibly even takes a pic of it using his phone, and then he takes off. so i was wrong about that. regarding the traffic in that area, i still maintain my assertion that it is unusual for the trucks in the vid to pass by so quickly at that hour.

in case anyone is interested and has the time to do it, you can check the vdot traffic cam on this page:

http://vupo.vdot.virginia.gov/regionalview...bcams®ion=06

to the far right, bring up camera 710, labeled "I-395 at Crystal City/Pentagon North" and/or camera 720, labeled "I-395 at 14th St. Bridge North", on any non-holiday weekday, anywhere from 9:30am to 9:40am (east coast time), and document just how much traffic there is at that location. i am personally unable to access a computer at that hour, so i cant post it myself. but im positive there is always bumper to bumper stoppage at that spot at that hour.

so the guy in the foreground is real and most likely filmed on 911 as is the explosion in the background, but the trucks moving steadily by dont fit. the camera is in such a shitty location, that even if clear, wouldnt reveal anything about the area in question (the pentagon). IF there was a plane, and it flew according to the FDR path or the "official path", then little to none of it would be visible from where this camera was filming at the time (so no need for the footage to be tampered with). BUT if on the other hand, there were other planes (or even helicopters shooting a missile as one story i've read claims) in the area, then they could have been visible from this camera's location on the original tape, thus the need to alter the footage.



i made time to go by and check the camera location out tonite, but unfortunately due to the darkness, i couldnt get a great perspective shot of what can be seen from that location.

what i did get were some shots of the camera and its exact (current) location, plus a pic of the area the guy in the video walks thru. here they are, along with some of you guys' earlier pics for referrence:






the actual cam that sits there currently:









im not sure how well the above pics depict or show it, but the way the camera sits currently appears as if it is filming much farther to the right than the viewpoint that appears in the doubletree video. the best way i can explain it is that camera is pointed in the same direction (12oclock) as the cars in the video, where the front of the cars would be considered 12 oclock on a watch dial. in the video the cam appears to be intersecting the cars at an almost 45degree angle, but as it sits now it faces forward at 90degrees.

the cam appears now to be facing people approaching the door, whereas before (according to the vid) it seems to have been pointed at the driveway opening to watch cars entering the lot. why the change? i dont know.



white arrows represent estimated path of where the guy in the vid walked by:






and here is my estimation of the cam's point of view (though i think you guys already have it figured out):






hope that helps at least a little. i will try and get some pics of what it looks like facing out from the camera's direction, but it has to be during the daytime, so we'll see if i ever make it there...

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waterdancer
post Dec 6 2006, 05:51 AM
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Great pics, paranoia! Here's a smaller version of the satellite image with some rough camera perspective angles drawn in in red. They are tough to see, even with the thick lines I used on the original because of the compression of the image. Basically, it looks to me like the camera would have shown two full Pentagon's worth of view (more or less) to the right of the imact point. Of course, nearly all of that is obscured by our tree. The line between the camera and the area of impact seems to intersect the middle of the road sign visible over the freeway in the video. On the left side of the video, we can only see about as far back along the supposed flight path as the cloverleaf, i.e. not very far at all... As you can see, our tree covers up a lot of airspace. Simply put, the camera looks like it would have tracked about half the distance between the area where the Pentagon was damaged and what looks to me to be a runway for Reagan Intl. airport, had that tree not been in the way.



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paranoia
post Dec 7 2006, 07:58 AM
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here is an overview map to give you a frame of referrence for the pics (travelling from left to right):

the red rectangles are roughly where the pics were shot from...





by chance on my way to the hotel i saw a plane landing at national:





it had to be landing at one of these 2 runways:


measuring from where i took the pics (red rectangle) to the plane, is almost equal in length to the distance from the doubletree cam to the pentgon impact point (depends which runway the plane in the pics was headed). Anyway, my hope is that you might get some idea of what a plane should look like from that distance.


while at the light waiting to turn left on to Army Navy Drive, i noticed VDOT cam 710:


here is its view on a tuesday (of this past week) at 6:30 am (traffic just beginning):





moving (left) on to Army Navy Drive towards the hotel i see the building adjacent to it has 2 rooftop dome-style cameras mounted at its corners:








too bad thats not the footage that was released. it might help see what really happened.




continued on next post...
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paranoia
post Dec 7 2006, 08:01 AM
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arrive at the doubletree:


camera:





now, there was a dude in a suit standing near this door (just out of camera view, straight ahead) on the phone, and my presence seemed to unnerve him, so i also got nervous, and instead of getting out of my car, i simply parked and took the pics from there. so most of these next shots come from near this spot (red rectangle):



this is where it appears the camera is currently pointed (though it has a wider field of view than my cam does):






the above pics show the area where the big TREE in the video appeared to be.
btw- the cut out areas in the pics are the hood of my car (done to maintain anonymity)



the next couple pics are my attempt to capture roughly the same perspective as the one in the released video:





this one is taken with my car in the driveway (on my way out) at the spot where the guy on the phone in the video was standing, but looking further left than the released video shows:



continued on next post...
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paranoia
post Dec 7 2006, 08:02 AM
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and back out on to Army Navy Drive, here is my return route (travelling right to left) with more points-of-referrence pics (the red rectangles are the locations (roughly) from where the rest of the pics were photographed):



the pics:

(note the 3-tiered metal sculpture is a tribute to the airforce, and it stands between the Navy Annex and the Pentagon on almost the exact area of the final approach of the “official” flight path)





NOTE:
If the official flight path is true, and a plane (allegedly77) passed the Columbia Pike area (note the Sheraton in full view), then it would/should have been visible from this road as well. You can see in the pics that both the Navy Annex and the Sheraton can be seen clearly from here.



After taking a right and getting on the Washington BLVD exit, the airforce memorial comes into better view:




SO there you have it, a little field trip to the DoubleTree and back. I hope the pics help figure out the “true” perspective of the released video, so that it can be ascertained whether or not the plane could even be visible and how much of it could/should have been seen and taped by the camera in question.


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rob balsamo
post Dec 7 2006, 10:38 AM
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Good stuff paranoia.. thanks for posting this..

Did you happen to talk with people at the Double Tree to see if that tree was there on 9/11? (sorry if i missed it in your above post)
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Tarya
post Dec 8 2006, 04:42 AM
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According to Judicial Watch:
QUOTE
Overall, Judicial Watch received 37 hours of tape in DVD format from the FBI, including ten different Doubletree Hotel security camera recordings.  The video footage obtained by Judicial Watch has been made available in full to major media outlets.

Judicial Watch obtained the Doubletree Hotel videos in response to an August 14, 2006 “Stipulation and Order” in Judicial Watch’s lawsuit against the FBI (Judicial Watch v. FBI, Civil Action No. 06-1135).  Judicial Watch filed its original Freedom of Information Act request on December 15, 2004, and amended the complaint on June 29, 2006 to include the Doubletree Hotel video.

According to a letter from FBI Section Chief David Hardy accompanying the camera recordings, “These DVDs were reproduced from cameras 1-9 and 11 comprising the Doubletree Hotel’s surveillance system. Originally, it was thought that the system contained eleven cameras; however, it was later determined that a camera was not connected to the #10 input of the system.”

So where's the footage from the other 9 cameras?
@Paranoia:
Did you notice where the other cameras were located?

Also, something else I was wondering about. If an explosion happened at 9:32 (supported by the clocks that stopped and 2 FAA documents), wouldn't it be useful to see what these cameras recorded minutes before? unsure.gif
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Dec 8 2006, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Dec 5 2006, 12:51 AM)
another thing that is odd:

the dc-bound traffic on the highway is moving at a steady pace (note the truck(s) cruising by unimpeded), where as at 9:30 to 9:40 a.m. of any given monday thru friday traffic is always bumper to bumper at that location. that is a FACT. All the traffic headed into DC during rush hour ALWAYS bottlenecks on the 14th street bridge, and just prior to it (the area in the videotape). In fact, traffic usually backs up much further (south) than just there, it can start as far back as glebe rd or even duke st, it just depends. but traffic is ALWAYS slow with people on their brakes at that location, M-F from 6:30 am to 10:30am.

my conclusion: the tape is not only not from 911, but it is also NOT from morning rush hour, but sometime (est.) after 11am.

Paranoia,

This is true, and in fact, Northbound 395 was supposed to be in a traffic jam..see Gary Bauer, Phillip Thompson, others.

But isn't that an exit or transition ramp?
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Dec 8 2006, 05:45 PM
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P,

what up with that shot from the train?

Any score?
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midwestzero
post Dec 10 2006, 05:11 AM
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Hats off once again to you guys, I have been busy doing duplcatiion for alot of 9/11 Truth groups, I just learned a few days of the "new" released video, I mean come on if they are gonna put fake trees why did it take them 5 years to do that, I could have put a fake tree in a pretty "CRAPPY" video in a bout 15-20 minutes, there are so many unanwsered questsions about this, hopefully something SOLID will pop up sometime soon
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paranoia
post Dec 10 2006, 08:25 AM
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sorry peeps, time has been a rare commodity for me this past week, i didnt mean to leave the thread hanging. but im back....


jdx, i did NOT ask anyone at the dueltree hotel any questions. to be honest im not sure they wouldnt look at me like im crazy if i went in there asking about a tree from 2001. furthermore, i doubt i would find anyone there who could answer the question beyond any reasonable doubt. plus, the whole place is always crawling with "them" (military and dod peeps) all the time, so im freaked out about showing my face around there too much. the building next to the duel tree (the one with the roofcamz i posted pics of), at 400 armynavy dr. houses the OIG (office of the inspector general) of the dod, as well as several other gov. entities, so again, im paranoid about openly seeking information re:911 from anyone in that locale.

btw (not really relevant but inetersting)- just around the corner from there is the BOEING headquarters (check it and the other buildings out here: http://www.boeing.com/ids/stratarch/docs/wdc_maps.pdf )


but what i did do is some research and i found that arl. takes major pride in their trees and i was led to believe (by this document: http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/Park.../UFMP_Final.pdf ) that they actually keep an EXACT inventory of how many there are, so hopefully somewhere there is a record of the info we seek. i also researched who would/should officially have information about the trees/forestry in arl. county, a position known as "County Urban Forester". i just emailed the current person in that position (minutes ago), so i will hopefully hear something by monday/tuesday when the county offices open back up. i also found the name and some (possibly outdated) contact info for the person who occupied that job/post back as early as spring of 2001. but im hoping the current guy will be able to hook me up so i dont have to go digging up the ex-forester. we'll see what kind of response i get, and i will keep u guys posted...



re: 9 other cameras, im not sure where they all are. the ones i posted pics of are highly visible, so they stood out readily. i'm sure almost all the buildings lining up with armynavy dr. (runs parallel to the pent.) have cameras mounted (either at ground and/or rooftop level), and some are more visible than others. if i get some time (and a sunny day) i will go back and try to document some of these other camz and their locations. im pretty sure that if nowhere else, pentagoncitymall has several rooftop and parking lot security camz that have the area in question in view, but their footage will likely be as limited and grainy as the dueltree vid.

anyhow, no footage has been (or will be- imo) released that is of any real value. you might get another below street level camera view from one of the other buildings, though i doubt it. notice the dueltree hotel is at the FARTHEST end of the armynavy dr. strip? the other buildings on that road are all much closer to the area in question and thus they should/could contain views of the "flight path", and thats exactly why they released the dueltree vid and not the others, and they likely WONT release any other vids.


personally, im willing to dismiss the tree as a non-issue, since it does not obscure the would-be flight path. to be honest, im not even convinced that it is in fact a tree we are looking at. what appears to be the base and trunk of the tree is actually (by my estimations) a "NO PARKING" sign (check my earlier pics). That leaves us with what appear to be leaves dangling without any base/trunk. i didnt take pics, but i did look closely at the ground and sidewalk of the exact area in question, and there is no trace of where a tree could/should have been planted. there isnt any dirt-area or cutout in the sidewalk for a tree to have been planted in. they would not have planted the tree in the street, but either way, there is no sign of any place to plant a tree (in the street or on the sidewalk). maybe the tree was planted in the planter (where the hedges are now), but again i cant seem to find a base/trunk of a tree in that planter, in the video. at one point (while watching the clip for the 2millionth time) i began to wonder if maybe there is some dirt or birdshit covering the camera lens. of course the actual lens is behind a protective glass in the encasement, so that glass is what i think might have some sh*t on it. look at the video and see what you think. just remember, the reason i dont think its a big deal is because there isnt anything to hide in the area obscured by the tree. due to where the explosion is, the tree area could not have contained any object (even a missile fired from a helicopter- for example).


if anything the most suspicious part of the video is the rectangular "help" box they used to "highlight" the explosion area. im not saying it explicilty implies wrong-doing, but it makes it harder to see wtf you are looking at. without it, we might be able to figure out if that is or isnt a tree we are looking at it. without it, maybe the "flight path" area would be clearer. so for me that box is what stands out as most questionable. that and the fact the the explosion seems like it is too far to the right in the field of view. but im wondering if thats the result of some sort of light-bending camera angle. im hoping to actually get in that building and gets some shots from the windows above the camera (it is a stairway with one window per floor). This should help get pics from the exact angle as the camera, and to see above and over the highway, to see exactly where the explosion should line up in the field of view.


so im not entirely convinced the tape is 100% legit, but its not the tree that i base my suspicions on. soon enough i will have an official answer for the tree hopefully, so at least that can be put to rest.

merc,
it is indeed an on-ramp, but even then the truck should not go unimpeded. it would eventually have to merge and hit a dead stop, but it does not appear to. plus the vehicles in the background, which appear not to be in the merge lane lane but in the regular traffic lanes, they also appear to moving at cruising speed. so something about the traffic does not seem right. im never near a computer at the hour in question so i cant document the VDOT cam (and the tarffic at that location), so the invite is still out there for anyone who can to please do so and post it.

as far as the pic from the train, sorry i havent had the time to get on the metro merc. it requires parking and riding the train to the airport and then back to where i parked. my bigger concern is security at the airport station. i dont want to stand out, since everyone who arrives at that stop usually catches plane, but i would instead be getting off one train and getting on another headed back away from the airport. im concerned that i might fit the profile of a would-be terrorist (im middle eastern) and that if they wanted to, they could claim that im staking out the place for an upcoming "plot". maybe my fears are unfounded, but in the immortal words of kurt cobain:

"just because you're paranoid, dont mean they're not after you..."


anway, im working on it (the pic from the train), and i may solicit some help to get it done, but just so you know, i havent/didnt forget about it. i'll be in touch...

peace.


wink.gif

p.s. i have to run (its 723am and i havent slept yet), but i did not get a chance to proofread this post. i will be editting it for content and clarity later, so please forgive any errors and or confusion caused as a result. thanx
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Dec 10 2006, 01:27 PM
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Excellent, P.

Good job on everything.

Honestly, whatever that thing is, it had to have made it easier to hide the flyover.

Yes, if you can get a shot from the train & platform asap, it will be used in the information we are presenting.

We might even be able to use a few other location shots if you'd like to help.

Lyte Trip has made a contact and even interviewed an employee with the Doubletree. He used to be a DoD employee, and worked in the B-ring on 9/11. He saw the fire and debris shoot out fromt the C-ring hole. Anyways, I told Lyte to get in touch with him and see if he can get in touch with the Doubletree landscaping staff or contractor and see if they can shed any light on the matter. But it looks like you have a good lead as well.

PLEASE stay in touch...and stop being so paranoid wink.gif...the worst is now over.
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paranoia
post Dec 11 2006, 07:14 AM
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re: the tree, who would be in charge of it, depends on where it was planted. if it was in the planter, it would belong to the hotel and they would be responsible for it. if it was on the county's sidewalk or street, they would be in charge of it. so between the two avenues we are pursuing, we should be able to come to a definitive conclusion regarding this tree, one way or another.


but anyway, pm me about the location shots you need, and i will do my best to oblige.



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Ashoka
post Dec 12 2006, 07:50 PM
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Hi,

before refreshing the webpage, Judicial watch showed this image



It's not another cam but the same they released before cropping the video (it only shows the high left angle) and darkening that rectangle around the "Pentagon"

Ashoka
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