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Asleep In The Control Tower?

Lasthorseman
post Apr 20 2011, 05:54 PM
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Call me a terminal cynic government and lamestream news wise but why is this now "in the news cycle" propagandawise. An attack on controllers, why. Serving what globalist corporate purpose. Countering/diverting attention from TSA groping six years olds and upsetting parents?
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tumetuestumefais...
post Apr 20 2011, 11:42 PM
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The whole story looks to me very unlikely to be true. Maybe some FBI used their new no-warrant prerogatives and found them at home in the bed. That would be maybe credible...
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IslandPilot
post Apr 21 2011, 12:42 PM
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I don't understand it either...

QUOTE (Lasthorseman @ Apr 20 2011, 04:54 PM) *
Call me a terminal cynic government and lamestream news wise but why is this now "in the news cycle" propagandawise. An attack on controllers, why. Serving what globalist corporate purpose. Countering/diverting attention from TSA groping six years olds and upsetting parents?

These are "non-events" that don't deserve to be BLASTED across the MSM... even on a "slow news day". In reality, their effect on "Aviation Safety" is negligible...

Air Traffic "Controllers" don't "CONTROL" anything, they are merely "ADVISORS" to the "Pilots in Command" of aircraft, who are ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE for their SAFE OPERATION.

Pilots are not bound by LAW to do whatever an Air Traffic Advisor "tells" them to do. The General Public doesn't understand this. They believe "Controllers" actually exercise "CONTROL" over aircraft in flight. This is not TRUE.
Having said that, I must add that, if a pilot "deviates" from ATC "instructions"... He may have some "EXPLAINING" to do afterwards... and could be subjected to further "remedial action", suspension, or loss of his License.

Exhaustion, Fatigue, and "Inattention" are common problems that have resulted in numerous FAA Regulations... especially for Pilots, relating to "flight and duty times".

It appears that Air Traffic Controllers, who are also covered under similar FAA Regulations; do not seem to have the "equivalent" of "Mandatory Rest Periods" required by the "Flight and Duty" Regs for pilots...
I believe this "issue" is now being addressed, to solve the "sleeping controller problem".

The General Public DOESN'T UNDERSTAND how our system works, to ensure their SAFETY! We use a very STRICT and WELL UNDERSTOOD SYSTEM of STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES, to accomplish this goal.

Whenever a Commercial Aircraft leaves the ground, even in zero-zero fog, it could LOSE ALL CONTACT with AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, without "endangering" its passengers. In the "worst case scenerio" that aircraft would make a normal instrument approach to land at its destination, (if weather was above minimums), or it would land at its designated Alternate Airport.
[If the pilot, never regains contact with ATC; some ATC functionality is still required to maintain "separation" of his aircraft from others in the vicinity.]

It is common to find "unmanned" "tower equipped" airports at night; with no one to issue a "clearance to land". It's no big deal for a pilot to "announce his intentions" and Land at such an airport. I realize the airport in question was "supposed" to have someone there to issue a landing "clearance"....

but "shit happens"; and that's why we have PILOTS, and CO-PILOTS to begin with!

Ultimately, whether they wanted to or not, those pilots made decisions to land safely, and "without incident"; which was the normal "expected result".

When "something" that is supposed to happen, happens; it is NOT NEWS!
So, WHO REPORTED this non-incident to the MSM... to be BECOME the INTERNATIONAL NEWS STORY of the WEEK??


Was it one of the pissed off pilots who had to "make a decision" without getting "permission" from a "Mother-may-I" controller? I would hope for them to aviod doing something to increase the ALREADY FEARFUL PUBLIC ATTITUDE toward flying.

There are "normal" channels available to report such an incedent. And it's a Pilot's Responsibility to do so, and then to ensure that effective corrective action is taken. This system WORKS pretty well, even without MSM intervention. So, what "went" wrong here? I don't get it. dunno.gif
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IslandPilot
post Apr 21 2011, 02:31 PM
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FAA Regs require co-pilots in every Commercial Aircraft carrying ten or more passengers.
Ninety-nine percent of the time co-pilots aren't "necessary". But, their presence makes passengers "feel better" about flying. The presence of a Co-pilot is obviously a good thing, in case the pilot becomes incapacitated.
It can be "argued" that having TWO people in the cockpit, to keep each other awake, or to allow each other to "nap" during a long flight; is "better" than having just ONE person flying the airplane.

"Cockpit Management Procedures"; including checklist co-ordination between Pilots has enhanced aviation safety. The presence of TWO pilots, using these procedures, helps prevent ONE of them from making a "simple" stupid mistake. This is a "very good thing". And it's a good reason to justify TWO PILOTS for carrying more than 9 passengers.

So, why isn't it just as important to have TWO CONTROLLERS on the ground, to insure the same "level of safety" for those NINE passengers? dunno.gif

As the "workload" of ATC controllers decreases during "non peak" hours, ONE CONTROLLER will take on the FUNCTIONS, POSITIONS, and RADIO FREQUENCIES, of several others.
This provides the "equivalent level of safety" as having a SINGLE PILOT flying a half-dozen airplanes!

HOW is that supposed to WORK! OBVIOUSLY, IT DOESN'T!


At airports like Toledo (TOL), a SINGLE person will assume the following "responsibilities":
Update ATIS Information every hour
2 sectors of "Approach Control" for arriving aircraft beyond 5 miles
"Clearance Delivery" to transmit flight plan info and Instrument Clearances
"Ground Control" of taxiing aircraft
"Local Tower Control" of arriving and departing aircraft
2 sectors of "Departure Control" for departing aircraft...
Mandatory Aircraft Radar Advisories to aircraft on Instrument Flight Plans
Radar Advisories to transient aircraft, "workload permitting".

At other times it may take SIX PEOPLE to do these things!

Between midnight and sunrise, how many pilots and passengers will rely on the "performance" of this ONE person?? If the answer is MORE THAN NINE; how can a SINGLE CONTROLLER be justified... while TWO pilots are REQUIRED to ensure a certain "level of safety" for the SAME NINE people?

No ATC Facility should EVER BE staffed with only ONE person... Period! IMO.
"Aviation" is a 24 hour business. Always has been, always will be. This demands a lot out of people in this "weather related" business. No one knows what is going to happen. The best plans and Schedules are revised constantly. To prevent "fatigue" and "inattention" due to schedule and shift changes; and irregular work hours; the FAA has established "Flight and Duty" regulations for Flight Crewmembers. These Regulations establish MANDATORY REST PERIODS for Pilots and Flight Attendents.

I had assumed that similar FAA Regulations, applied to Air Traffic Controllers, but I was WRONG!

So, it is obvious that new FAA REGULATIONS are required to ensure MANDATORY REST PEROIDS for ATC personnel, to "ensure the same level of safety" required by our flight personnel.

That's my $ 0.02. (But, please don't notice I didn't mention Aircraft Mechanics, OK?) salute.gif
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Ricochet
post Apr 21 2011, 04:40 PM
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Well in all fairness all the vids of the child molesters in the TSA looks to require 2 perverts per grope, 1 to grope and the other to leer I mean watch. BTW what about the mechanics? How much rest between shifts are manditory? Shouldn't they be sharp and alert whilst fiddling with what makes the plane stay in the air?
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IslandPilot
post Apr 21 2011, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (Ricochet @ Apr 21 2011, 03:40 PM) *
Well in all fairness all the vids of the child molesters in the TSA looks to require 2 perverts per grope, 1 to grope and the other to leer I mean watch. BTW what about the mechanics? How much rest between shifts are manditory? Shouldn't they be sharp and alert whilst fiddling with what makes the plane stay in the air?

You are very perceptive Ricochet; about the "perverts" and also the mechanics.

Since you asked about the mechanics; Shouldn't EVERYONE involved in AVIATION be subjected to the SAME REGULATIONS and Qualifications that now apply to "only" of few of the most visible participants... to ensure the "SAME LEVEL OF SAFETY" throughout the SYSTEM??

For instance;
Random Drug and Alcohol Testing:
How many TSA people could be eliminated if they were subjected to Mandatory Random Drug an Alcohol Testing Programs, as our Pilots are?

Mandatory Rest Period Requirements:
How many TSA personnel are subjected to the same Mandatory Rest period requirements, as our Pilots are? Wouldn't that tend to reduce TSA complaints, due to "cranky, overworked, and overtired personnel?

Medical Certification:
Are TSA personnel "Medically Fit" to perform their duties. Are they required to hold Medical Certificates, to maintain their employment? Medical Certification is required for pilots and Controllers for obvious reasons...
but the "Medical Certification Process" also "weeds" out other inappropriate candidates. Those who have a history of "Mental Illness", severe depression, and suicidial tendencies; a criminal record; history of traffic violations, drunk driving or Impaired driving arrests; or loss of "Drivers License"; as well as conventional medical problems... like high blood pressure, bad eyesight, bad teeth, recurring pains and aches, poor hearing, as well as "communicable diseases"... like HIV AIDS for example.... should NOT BE employed as TSA AGENTS! So why don't they have to meet Medical Certification requirements?

Initial Training and Cetification Requirements:
Pilots, Flight Attendents, Dispatchers, ATC personnel, and Airplane Mechanics must meet initial FAA Certification Requirements through; documented Hours of "training" and or "physical experience" in Training Records... followed by well defined, standardized; ORAL, WRITTEN, and PRACTICAL TESTS, administered by FAA Approved Examiners...

Since TSA personnel are required to perform "law enforcement" functions; what kind of "law enforcement" training or experience are they required by the FAA to have? And I DO MEAN the FAA here! Since they are "operating" within an AIRPORT BOUNDARY... they are UNDER the jurisdiction of the FAA. PERIOD! Especially, when one considers their "function" of ensuring the safety of passengers with the intention of "boarding an aircraft" for a flight. That is a PRIMARY FAA FUNCTION by REGULATION!

Since TSA personnel are operating sophisticated "X-ray", and other "Medical Imaging Equipment" that emit harmful "Electromagnatic and/or Ionizing Radiation"; what are their qualifications, and Certifications to operate such equipment? Would they be "qualified" to go into any nearby hospital and operate similar equipment? I don't think so.

If TSA personnel were properly "educated" as to the HAZARDOUS NATURE of their equipment, and the consequences of its "improper operation", and its possible malfunctions... would they still "Choose" TSA employment?? (Of course "getting Zapped" from constant exposure to Harmful Radiation, may ultimately "decrease" the supply of TSA workers.) We can only hope.

Recurrent Training and Certification:
Are TSA Workers subject to any "recurring" training and Certification requirements to keep their jobs? I think not. Pilots are subjected to "periodic recurrent training" in specificied subject areas, as well as "recurrent Check Rides" and in the case of Airline Pilots... Medical Re-certification every SIX months! What makes "some" Aviation workers "exempt" from ANY of these requirements?

Record Keeping Requirements:
What Record Keeping Requirements do TSA Workers have to comply with? By LAW; Pilots, mechanics, and other Aviation Personnel MUST comply with strict Record Keeping Requirements. Pilots are responsible for Aircraft Flight Records; "Flight and Duty" time records; as well as "Weight and Balance" documents; flight manifests; training records; etc... etc... Maintenance Documentation is also a tremendous task. But these "recordkeeping requirements" are a well proven means to ensure our current "LEVEL OF SAFETY". It is how we became the SAFEST AVIATION COUNTRY in the world. It is also a FEDERAL FELONY CRIME to "alter", change, or provide "inaccurate" information on these FAA required documents.

Random Inspections and Enforcement for Compliance:
What requirements exist to ensure that TSA workers are operating in COMPLIANCE with the policies, procedures, and requirements of their "OVERSEEING" Government Authority... withing the guidlines of EXISTING REGULATIONS... that have gone through the entire "normal NPRM rule making" process??

Although my references above have been to TSA Workers... other AVIATION EMPLOYEES should still be subjected to the requirements outlined above.... as would be "appropriate" for their classification.

Mechanics, probably shouldn't be "exempt" from Mandatory Rest Period Requirements. Ramp Rats, and Aircraft Fueling personnel should be trained, certified, Drug tested, and pass Medical Requirements to stay employed. And Mandatory Rest is just as beneficial to them as anyone else.

The same thing goes for Ticket Agents, Baggage handlers and checkers, etc....
If properly Trained and Qualified people were at Gate D26 on 9/11/2001; would things have been different? Would Mulsim Terrorists been able to board airplanes? I don't know, maybe not... But at least we would have an accurate record of the passengers who DID BOARD those Aircraft; and the exact ID Number of which aircraft, departed from which Gate, at What time. Which is better than we got now!

Since the ENTIRE SYSTEM is only as GOOD AS ITS WEAKEST LINK... It might be time to make some of the "WEAKER LINKS" a LITTLE STRONGER.
I'm just sayin'... because I really HATE the idea of ever more "regulations".


It would be a lot easier to just ABOLISH THE TSA! IMO salute.gif
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elreb
post Apr 21 2011, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (IslandPilot @ Apr 21 2011, 01:33 PM) *
It would be a lot easier to just ABOLISH THE TSA!


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10797700
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amazed!
post Apr 21 2011, 09:55 PM
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I vote for diverting attention from other more serious issues.

Circadian rhythms must be respected and accomodated by government policies.

I think there should be a snooze room, just like they have for pilots at FBOs across the country. Cat naps work fine for about 95% of the population.

I am so afflicted that sometimes while driving or even flying long periods I start to nod off. A 15 minute nap and I am very refreshed. Most people are that way.

I think every FAA facility should have some kind of snooze room.
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IslandPilot
post Apr 22 2011, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Apr 21 2011, 08:55 PM) *
I vote for diverting attention from other more serious issues.

Circadian rhythms must be respected and accomodated by government policies.

I think there should be a snooze room, just like they have for pilots at FBOs across the country. Cat naps work fine for about 95% of the population.

I am so afflicted that sometimes while driving or even flying long periods I start to nod off. A 15 minute nap and I am very refreshed. Most people are that way.

I think every FAA facility should have some kind of snooze room.


Your comments about Circadian Rythms are good. Shift Changes and Irregular hours wreak havoc on them, that drinking coffee doesn't always fix. And the "legal" requirements for Mandatory Rest Periods, don't always work as one transitions between a "normal home" life and an "Aviation" Profession. Cops, Firemen, Medical Personnel, and Truckers face the same problems.

Cops and Firemen have "sleeping quarters" at their stations. Hospitals have extra "beds", and Truckers have "sleeper cabs" and rest stops. The idea of a "snooze room" for "Irregular shift" workers might be OK, provided there is MORE THAN ONE PERSON ON DUTY... to take "turns" at "cat napping".

The "sleeping controller" problem occurred when only a SINGLE ATC worker was on duty; so taking "cat naps" wouldn't solve that problem. And there is the matter of "PAYING" an employee for "sleeping on the job".

After years of "sleepless nights" and "working through the night" to keep Freight Dogs in the air; I've become "conditioned" to an irregular lifestyle. I hardly ever sleep through the night, if I ever sleep at all. Instead, I'll stay up and check out P4T, or listen to shortwave radio, or lay outside under the stars... to watch for satellites and shooting stars.

If I'm not otherwise occupied, I can fall asleep just about anywhere. Noise and people don't bother me.

Fifteen to Twenty minutes of "rest" without "sleeping" is beneficial... but if I "konk out" and actually loose "conciousness" by sleeping... it doesn't matter for how long... when I "wake up" I'm usually "good to go" for several hours.

But, I'm not really worth a shit just before dawn; or just after lunch... and Never have been. I could NEVER STAY AWAKE, or ATTENTIVE in school after lunch, and it's still a problem today.

And then there is the problem of "JET LAG" after Eastbound "Red Eye" Long Distance Flights! Those are a real problem for Circadian Rythms,... especially if you happen to be in Italy, and drink some of their "coffee" to compensate! But ATC Workers don't have to worry about "jet lag" in their positions.
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Ricochet
post Apr 22 2011, 12:54 PM
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I have managed long distance trucking for over 20 years and I always tell my drivers if they are tired, pull over. Drive by the rules don't over extend, log book rules only. No load is worth rolling over for. If the public only knew what some truckers do such as running 2 log books they would shit themselves. These are 80 thousand pounds (in Canada up to 115,000) of moving machines screaming down the same roads as the you take to go work, mall whatever. Fatigue hits everyone. We are all built the same, no one is exempt. Tired is tired. Sleep.
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Lasthorseman
post Apr 22 2011, 09:24 PM
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Laugh or cry
Air traffic controllers of the post Reagan Charolette Iserbyte dumbed down not on strike air traffic controllers?
Excellent discussions from all. I wonder about the very continuation of excellent people doing what they do in the high caliber the aviation industry demands. Can that continue to function in this new corpo-fascist clockwork orange world or do many of these idiot/parasitic for profit only seven billion dollar a year guys have to go to give real working people an even chance.
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Tamborine man
post Apr 23 2011, 10:44 AM
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Could this be a world-wide problem??:

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/ECE12594...-pilot-fatigue/


Sounds scarry!
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albertchampion
post Apr 23 2011, 09:26 PM
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it is a worldwide problem.

the atc system was broken by ronnie raygun. and the us populace was propagandized into believing that the "breaking" of patco was a desirable objective.

perhaps that was because so few of the citizenry traveled on a regular basis. for a living.

or perhaps it was because dementia is a communicable disease, and the usa has been experiencing that unacknowledged plague.

i liken the atc system since ronnie raygun to a railway system where crossbucks are removed from grade crossings, leaving it to the motorist to determine whether to cross the tracks without any semblance of a warning.

i label ronnie and his myrmidons "decivilizers". the most extraordinary aspect to all of this is that the citizenry appears to welcome "decivilisation".

which just goes to indicate that the citizenry is seriously brain-damaged. how can it be that they think a restoration of frontier justice, frontier standards, will be benefiting them?

do they really understand their situation in the world of the gunsells, the law south of the picket wire? the world administered by liberty valance?

apparently not.
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IslandPilot
post Apr 24 2011, 03:35 AM
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Yup, RONNY RAYGUN put one of the NAILS into the Coffin of the BEST AIR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM the WORLD WILL EVER KNOW!

Sure, PATCO was getting a little "difficult". They were trying to make the CASE for ATC CONTROLLER FATIGUE, and the STRESSFUL nature of their job. It's no different than Flight Instruction, or hauling FREIGHT... 99% percent of the time it's sheer boredom, between periods of STARK TERROR! (Except Flight Instructors have regular Rest.) But Ronnie "butted in"; and really fuked it up, just to "save" a few bucks.

They could have gone on strike for a couple of weeks, and it wouldn't have screwed up the SYSTEM for the next TWO years. We got "all new green" inexperienced ATC people, as they reduced staffing, system wide. Flight Service Stations were consolidated and closed. Airport Control Towers got reduced hours and staffing, while some were closed.

Since the FAA "thought" it was a "good idea" to have TWO PILOTS in any Commerical airplane carrying more than 9 passengers, it became an FAA Regulation. This was "easy" to implement, because no one could argue against that "logic"... especially when the FAA didn't have to pay the "extra" pilot's salary.

The same "logic" would dictate having at least TWO people in a Control Tower during the "Midnight" shift; but this situation was "different" because the GOVERNMENT would have to PAY for the "extra" person. So, no FAA Regulations about ATC staffing wire implemented.

The "second NAIL" into the Coffin came when Jimmy Carter (I think) put the DOT in charge of the FAA. Then we had Elizabeth Dole making decisions about our Air Transportation System. The "original" mission of the FAA was to PROMOTE and also REGULATE our Air Transportation.

Which brings us to the Third NAIL. Under the Department of Commerce, The FAA was doing a pretty good job in their "Dual" role. But the PTB in the DOT claimed those "roles" were in "conflict" with each other... so they "separated" them... and the FAA became responsible for "ENFORCEMENT" only. The "role" of PROMOTING AVIATION disappeared as the "product liability crisis DESTROYED our General Aviation Industry.

The FOURTH NAIL to Kill Air Transportation was the CENTRALIZED STANDARDIZATION of EVERYTHING FAA related. It was TERRIBLE and still is. It treats "people" like ROBOTS, incapable of independent "THINKING"! The "first" application of this "stupidity" concerned how flight instructors were supposed to "instruct" their students down to the last detail.

The "Power Controls Altitude" and "Pitch controls Airspeed" during a descent and vice-versa "arguments" were just as absurd as they were endless. But they GOT WHAT THEY WANTED!... Clueless BORG-LIKE pilots, acting like "robots" incapable of THINKING. All learning now became "ROTE" learning... there was only ONE CORRECT way of teaching or DOING anything in an aircraft.

The FOURTH NAIL also includes the "STANDARDIZATION" of everyone and everything else FAA Related. EVERYTHING was RELOCATED to OKLAHOMA CITY. The MEDICAL CERTIFICATION office is there. ALL TRAINING FOR FAA AIRWORTHINESS and OPERATIONS INSPECTORS is done at OKC. AND the ONLY THING these guys do, is to check their email every day; and do what their "ORDERS" from OKC tell them to do; and then fill out their forms; and return them to "Big Brother" in OKC. They cannot "think", act, or make any "decisions" and recommendations on their own, like they used to do. During this time the FAA lost a lot of experienced people... and replaced them with "minorities" through an "affirmative action" program. By the 1990s, the FAA was pretty well "dumbed down".

Aviation Safety isn't something that just "happens" all by itself. It's not "one size fits all" in every situation. To fly "SAFE" requires cognitive THINKING and REASONING at all times... not just for pilots, but also for Mechanics, and ATC personnel, as well as everyone else involved in AVIATION.

The FIFTH NAIL into the coffin of flying safety was the "Freedom of Information Act". In the early 1980s, the FAA had STANDARDIZED WRITTEN TESTS to ensure that an applicant had the knowledge to qualify for an "airman certificate"; as a pilot, mechanic, flight instructor, etc... Prior to 1980, one had to do some serious "book learning" and studying to pass those tests. They weren't easy. After the FOIA passed; the publishers of Aviation study materials obtained copies of ALL FAA WRITTEN TEST QUESTIONS; which they also published, along with the ANSWERS to the test questions!

Many of the guys I went to A&P Mechanics School with in 1980 studied ONLY the TEST QUESTIONS and ANSWERS to pass their WRITTEN TESTS. They "knew" the "right" answers even though they didn't understand HALF of the QUESTIONS! Some of them got Airline jobs when they "graduated".

FAA Office Security, and Airport Security became a big deal in the 1990s, after the OKC bombing (I think).. That's when they started putting fences around our Airports, and began to limit access and checked our IDs. That's when they installed the first "metal detector" lanes for departure gates. These measures did NOTHING to enhance AVIATION SAFETY IMO.

And the CREATION of the HSA and it's illegitimate child the TSA... are just the LAST NAILS into our GREAT AIR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM. Kiss it Goodbye, it is GONE FOREVER.

QUOTE
Excellent discussions from all. I wonder about the very continuation of excellent people doing what they do in the high caliber the aviation industry demands. Can that continue to function in this new corpo-fascist clockwork orange world?


Very Excellent discussions from all! thumbsup.gif Excellent High caliber people in this Clockwork Orange World?? I don't think so, "Droogie"... which makes things pretty "Horrorshow" (scary). I think you might find them dumbing down at the "Karova Milk Bar, Alex". cool.gif

QUOTE
Could this be a world-wide problem??:
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/ECE12594...-pilot-fatigue/
Sounds scarry!

Excellent article above... world-wide problem?? You Betcha X 2!

The way current FAA and ICAO Regs are written (if they haven't changed lately)... the REST PERIOD REQUIREMENTS for "International Flights" are different from "domestic" ones. The local FSDO made us listen to a surviving Copilot of a DC-8 that crashed on approach to GITMO. He had flown "all day" the previous day, just within the "domestic" rest period requirements; when they got the call to go to Cuba. Since it was an "International flight", it was "legal" for them to fly for an additional FOUR hours. The crew was fatigued when the captain "elected" to make a tight turning approach over CUBA in VFR conditions, rather than an easier straight-in approach. He got too low and slow turning to final, and it cost him his life....

Otherwise that article pretty much was "telling it like it is"... but also "same as it ever was"... Crewmember fatigue can be more common than most people suspect. Scheduled Airline operations, may be better than Non-scheduled or Overnight Freight haulers... but THINK ABOUT IT! Sure TWO pilots are marginally better than one... one can rest, while the other flies... but if they are equally fatigued... it "sometimes" doesn't work.

If they were a "husband and wife" trucker team... they could take "turns" sleeping for a little while... and pull off at the next rest stop, without incident. Pilots cannot pull over on the next cloud.
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IslandPilot
post Apr 24 2011, 03:55 AM
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QUOTE (albertchampion @ Apr 23 2011, 08:26 PM) *
it is a worldwide problem.
the atc system was broken by ronnie raygun. and the us populace was propagandized into believing that the "breaking" of patco was a desirable objective.
perhaps that was because so few of the citizenry traveled on a regular basis. for a living.
or perhaps it was because dementia is a communicable disease, and the usa has been experiencing that unacknowledged plague.

i liken the atc system since ronnie raygun to a railway system where crossbucks are removed from grade crossings, leaving it to the motorist to determine whether to cross the tracks without any semblance of a warning.
<snip>

Dementia is a communicable disease?? Maybe that plague is in the water? I like that comment.

It's funny that you should mention railroads, albert.
As a kid I always wanted to be a LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEER... but they did away with STEAM ENGINES.

When these awesome behemouths were repalced with diesel-electric units... they retained their TWO MAN crews. It took them a LONG TIME to get rid of the FIREMAN, whose only purpose became to keep the captain awake, I imagine.

So, TODAY the ONLY thing the RAILROAD ENGINEER has to do to "drive" the TRAIN... is to PUSH the BUTTON after the LIGHT FLASHES, or the GONG goes OFF, to indicate that he is STILL AWAKE... to some track Controller down the line. That's it!

Is that in our future for Aviation? WOOOO WOOOOO WOOOOOOOOO! salute.gif
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paranoia
post Aug 8 2011, 06:47 PM
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i know its old news, but i wanted to add 2 things to this thread. first, for posterity:

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/head-faas-air...ory?id=13373917

QUOTE
April 14, 2011

The head of the Federal Aviation Administration's Air Traffic Organization resigned Thursday, the day after another air traffic controller was caught napping while planes were trying to land.

"Hank Krakowski has submitted his resignation and I have accepted," FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt said in a statement. "Hank is a dedicated aviation professional and I thank him for his service."

Krakowski had held the position since 2007 and prior to joining the FAA had worked for United Air Lines for nearly 30 years, says his FAA bio.

Krakowski's resignation comes as the FAA investigates five incidents in recent weeks of air controllers possibly sleeping on the job.


and was replaced with:
http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-...nization-30565/
QUOTE
FAA Appoints Former Counsel To Lead Air Traffic Organization
July 18, 2011

Nearly three months after Henry “Hank” Krakowski was forced out as head of the FAA’s Air Traffic Organization (ATO), the agency named acting head David Grizzle permanently to the post. Krakowski resigned as ATO COO on April 14, following a series of highly publicized incidents in which air traffic controllers were found sleeping on duty.

...Like Krakowski, Grizzle, who served as FAA’s chief counsel for two years before Babbitt tapped him to lead the ATO, comes from an airline background. Before joining the FAA, he worked for Continental Airlines and its affiliates for 22 years, retiring in 2008 as senior vice president for customer experience. He took a leave of absence from Continental in 2004, serving 14 months with the U.S. State Department in Kabul, Afghanistan, as a senior advisor for transportation and infrastructure.

The cultural divide between FAA executives with backgrounds in airline management and unionized air traffic controllers has been cited as contributing to Krakowski’s undoing.

Babbitt also came from an airline; he flew 25 years as a pilot for Eastern Airlines. But he also has labor credentials, having served as president of the Air Line Pilots Association. Months after being sworn in as administrator in June 2009, Babbitt brokered a new contract with Natca, ending a three-year stalemate during which controllers worked under imposed work and pay rules.

Natca has not yet made a statement regarding Babbitt’s appointment of Grizzle.




***


separately, there is an interesting footnote about the controller who fell asleep at DCA:

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/03/abc7-f...leep-57262.html
(link contains video of wjla's news team surprising mr.creedon as he pulls out of his driveway)

QUOTE
In an exclusive, ABC7 has the first look at the air traffic controller who fell asleep while on the job at Reagan National Airport and prompted staffing changes.

ABC7 caught Dan Creedon as he was leaving his Alexandria home Friday afternoon.

Creedon, a supervisor with about 20 years experience was suspended after sleeping on the job at Reagan early Wednesday morning. Authorities said Creedon admitted that he fell asleep.

“I have no comment,” he said. “I'm sorry.”

Creedon fell asleep while on his fourth consecutive overnight shift, leading two airlines to land without help from the tower.

Creedon was at work on 9-11, coordinating controllers and warning of catastrophic danger involving airplanes. One colleague describes him as reliable and one of the best supervisors around.

Air traffic controllers said they need back-up not only to deal with fatigue but also in case of emergency.

“I don't see why--how this could possibly happen,” said Bob Richards, a former air traffic controller.



creedon marked "flight77" as "LOOK" on 9/11:
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?e...y=dan_creedon_1

QUOTE
Reagan Airport controller Dan Creedon checks his radar screen and sees the aircraft’s target about 10 miles west of the White House. The radar track is untagged, so he attaches a data box to it with the word “LOOK” in it. This will allow other controllers to quickly spot the aircraft. It also causes its ground speed to appear on the screen. According to author Lynn Spencer, the aircraft is shown to be flying at 290 miles per hour. [Spencer, 2008, pp. 146] But other accounts will claim it is flying at between 400 and 500 mph as it approaches Washington. [CBS News, 9/21/2001; ABC News, 10/24/2001; USA Today, 8/13/2002; 9/11 Commission, 7/28/2003 Creedon then calls out to Victor Padgett, the operations supervisor in the TRACON, and tells him about the aircraft heading their way. [Federal Aviation Administration, 9/14/2001; Spencer, 2008, pp. 146]


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