Deforestation, split topic from Mainstream Gloom and MMGW Doom Options

[lunk]

I think the pine beetle infestation is caused by the lack of sunlight getting to the forests. The trees are weaker and more prone to insects.

[JimMac]

I think the pine beetle infestation is caused by the lack of sunlight getting to the forests. The trees are weaker and more prone to insects.

Note that the pine beetle infestation in the interior of BC and Alberta has been around along time, i recall it since the '70's. Its not sunlight. The bug carries a fungus that weakens the tree species defense against the beetle.

Frequently Asked Questions

Is the mountain pine beetle new to British Columbia?

No. Lodgepole pine and the mountain pine beetle have always co-existed as a natural part of the ecosystem in British Columbia’s interior forests.



Why is British Columbia in the midst of a mountain pine beetle epidemic?

Forests of mature lodgepole pine are prime habitat for the mountain pine beetle. The beetle also thrives under warm weather conditions. The interior of British Columbia has an abundance of mature lodgepole pine, and has experienced several consecutive mild winters and drought-like summers. Beetle populations in many parts of interior B.C. have increased to epidemic levels as a result.



How exactly does the mountain pine beetle kill trees?

Beetles attack pine trees by laying eggs under the bark. When the eggs hatch, the larvae mine the phloem area beneath the bark and eventually cut off the tree’s supply of nutrients.

The beetles also carry a fungus that causes dehydration and inhibits a tree’s natural defenses against beetle attacks. The fungi stains the wood blue or grey. Despite the discoloration, the wood remains as structurally sound as unattacked pine and can still be used for high-quality products.


Does the mountain pine beetle have natural predators?

Birds - particularly woodpeckers - enjoy feasting on mountain pine beetles. Beetle larvae can also be susceptible to some parasites and insect predators. However, the current epidemic is far beyond the level at which the beetle’s natural enemies can be much help in B.C.’s battle against the beetle.

How is B.C.’s beetle epidemic being addressed?

The beetle battle is being fought on many fronts. The Province of British Columbia has a multi-faceted action plan to deal with the short-term consequences of the epidemic, while also working to sustain the well-being of the economy, environment and communities over the long term. British Columbia's Mountain Pine Beetle Action Plan for 2006-2011 guides provincial responses and helps coordinate all levels of government, communities, First Nations, industries and other stakeholders working to mitigate impacts of the epidemic.

What is the current size of British Columbia’s mountain pine beetle infestation?

The Ministry of Forests and Range estimates that as of 2008 the cumulative area of provincial Crown forest affected to some degree (red-attack and grey-attack) was about 14.5 million hectares.

The ministry also estimates that a cumulative total of 620 million cubic metres of timber have been affected since the current infestation began.

Does beetle-attack increase the possibility of wildfire?

Large areas of dead pine stands represent a potential fire hazard. The Province is directing fuel management activities in beetle areas as recommended in Filmon’s Firestorm Provincial Review report. Harvesting affected stands aids fire management by removing the hazard and breaking the continuity of the fuels.

These fuel management treatments are specifically designed to reduce interface fire threats to communities and First Nations located in the infestation zone. The interface is the area where urban development and wilderness meet.

What will be done with all this beetle-attacked timber?

Not all of the beetle timber has to be logged today. The timber is expected to retain its commercial value anywhere from five to 18 years after attack (depending on local site conditions). Research and "shelf-life" modeling continues to be conducted to help determine priority areas where more immediate harvesting is required to recover economic value.

What new and existing markets are there for beetle-attacked timber?

Beetle-attacked timber can be used for anything from standard framing lumber, to value-added wood products, to energy generation. The beetle-transmitted blue stain has no practical effect on strength properties, gluing characteristics or adhesion of furniture finishes.

What does the current beetle epidemic mean to future timber supplies?

Allowable annual cuts have been increased as an emergency measure for salvaging or recovering the greatest value possible from beetle-attacked timber. The temporary increases have resulted in a surge in harvesting activity in some areas of the central Interior. However, significant reductions to these allowable annual cuts are inevitable as timber supplies decline and the epidemic finishes running its course.

How are communities being prepared to deal with the falldown in timber supply?

The $185-million Northern Development Initiative Trust (with $32 million set aside specifically for mountain pine beetle recovery projects) and the $50-million Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust have been set up to give communities the ability to pursue new opportunities for stimulating economic growth and job creation.

Many forest-dependent communities, through regional groups such as the Cariboo-Chilcotin, Omineca, and Southern Interior beetle action coalitions, have already begun planning around a transition stage for diversifying and building long-term economic sustainability.

Is the mountain pine beetle a threat to other provinces?

Scientists believe the mountain pine beetle is a tangible threat to other provinces as jackpine, found across the prairies and eastern Canada, is a potential host species for the beetle if predicted climate change expands the range of the beetle.

How is reforestation and rehabilitation being handled?

Licensees – including BC Timber Sales – are legally responsible to reforest any area that they harvest. The most productive growing sites are identified to ensure a return to fully stocked, free-growing timberlands as quickly as possible.

British Columbia has also committed $161 million to Forests for Tomorrow – the reforestation plan designed to speed the recovery of forest values in areas affected by the mountain pine beetle. Site surveys and mapping, creating better growing conditions, and research into preventing future infestations are just some of the work being done through the Forests for Tomorrow program.

Not all infested areas will be harvested, but they may need to be rehabilitated to restore forest ecosystem productivity. Discussions with various stakeholders and other government agencies are ongoing to ensure that any rehabilitation efforts are part of overall, long-term planning.

What about conservation of land use plans?

Some land use plans may need to be revisited, since the current extent of the mountain pine beetle infestation was not envisioned when those land use plans were approved. Some harvesting of beetle-infested trees may need to occur in order to reduce wildfire risks and ensure the values identified in the land use plans are protected as much as possible.

What management techniques are used to control beetles?

In addition to harvesting at the leading edges of what is known as “green attack,” a variety of other techniques can be used to manage infestations on a smaller scale. These techniques include:

* Pheromone baiting - luring beetles into trees that have been ‘baited’ with a synthetic hormone that mimics the scent of a female beetle. Beetles can then be contained in a single area, where they can more easily be destroyed.
* Sanitation harvesting - removing single infested trees to control the spread of beetle populations to other areas.
* Snip and skid - removing groups of infested trees that are scattered over a large area.
* Controlled, or mosaic, burns - burning an area where infested trees are concentrated, to reduce high beetle infestations in the area or to help reduce the fire hazard in an area.
* Fall and burn - cutting (felling) and burning beetle-infested trees to prevent the spread of beetle populations to other areas. This is usually done in winter, to reduce the risk of starting forest fires.



How is the mountain pine beetle managed in provincial protected areas?

BC Parks' conservation web site addresses some of the more common enquiries about the management of mountain pine beetle in provincial protected areas.



What can I do to try and protect my private property against the mountain pine beetle?

It's important for private landowners with mature pine stands to be vigilant against the mountain pine beetle, and aware of what an infested tree looks like. If the beetle is present in their timber, property owners have several options available for attempting to limit the spread of the beetle across their land. For a list of mountain pine beetle signs and indicators, and what private landowners can do to fight back, see the Mountain Pine Beetle in B.C. brochure on the Ministry of Forests and Range web site.

last updated: February 2008

[lunk]

Yes, lots of beetle damaged trees,
but why does a 2x4 still cost so much?

I get the impression it is mostly left standing,
just waiting for the next forest fire, to come along.

Global dimming has been measured for about 40 years.
A tree can grow for hundreds of years, this would be a drastic cut in sunlight for one.

[JimMac]

Yes, lots of beetle damaged trees,
but why does a 2x4 still cost so much?

I get the impression it is mostly left standing,
just waiting for the next forest fire, to come along.

Global dimming has been measured for about 40 years.
A tree can grow for hundreds of years, this would be a drastic cut in sunlight for one.

You mean why is the 2X4 so cheap. Firstly, 'dimensional lumber', 2X4"s 2X6, 2X8, and 2X10 are not made out of lodge pole pines. They are mainly cut from other softwood species; cut from spruce, hemlock, fir and some limited varieties of pine species. The timber that this beetle attacks, is mostly used for finishing grade wood products i.e. not structural products.

And notice i didn't mention 2X12" which are not used in structural construction, but used on stairs sometimes, for treads and or stringers, and mostly come from Oregon, as we Canucks have long ago harvested our 'old-growth' Douglas Fir prior to the '70's in BC, selling it all into the hungry US export market. (the only place Doug fir grows is on the pacific west coast). The reason our lumber sold so cheap, is because the US forces the Canadian market to sell it below world market levels, and we Canadians on the west coast (B.C.) are just dumb enough to have NOT exploited European markets, and for the reason that the Russians dump their softwood lumber into Europe at uncompetitive prices. This is the west coast production i am referring to.

On the east coast, they are smarter and sell their unbelievably BEAUTIFUL Red Spruce into Europe UK and believe it or not Iceland, who re-manufactures it into furniture and the like, and then they sell manufactured products to UK and Eu. (its a big industry there). Note that Eu is a metric cut, and the mills on the East coast tooled up for the metric cut seeing the writing on the wall decades ago (smart boys)

On the west coast, they also still sell some wood to China and Japan, but these two countries want logs, not cut wood, (they have their own mills) and the US successfully through a number of different trade strategies caused (forced) the BC Forestry Ministry to outlaw the selling of uncut (logs and cants) to Asia, in order to protect their own US dimensional lumber supply. This hammer came down in Mar of 1986. The Japanese love our spruce and they pay top top dollar for it, but thats about all they buy, only the best stuff. I once cut a spruce tree that was about 700 years old, and i knew a logger that had one that was over 2,000 years old (older than Christ)

LOL..sorry for the in depth answer, but its a particular pet peeve of mine, as I used to run a small logging operation in my 20's (thirty guys) and sell logs to the Japanese and Chinese markets, until i was forced out of business and lost all my equipment, driven into BK because of what I explained above. Life went on (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by JimMac: Jun 1 2009, 09:29 PM

[dMz]

I think the pine beetle infestation is caused by the lack of sunlight getting to the forests. The trees are weaker and more prone to insects.

The trees get plenty of sunshine (plus some) in my neighborhood. Our (quite alarming) Asian? pine beetle infestation has been attributed to drought/mild winters and imported species upsetting an ecosystem. Grasshopper, etc. infestations are blamed on "warm" winters too (of course that doesn't really explain why bees would be simultaneously dying either- hmmmm....) There sure have been a sh*t-load of spiders lately, it seems (maybe here is a solution).

Lunk is correct on that 2x4 extreme fire hazard thing across much of the Western US (although fires have actually limited the spread of the beetles somewhat here... at the long-term expense of the forests). Porcupines, lightning, cigarettes, and fire were the major "forest predators" not that many years ago around here.

[Mod edit: I split out the "deforestation" posts to a different topic, since the discussion headed a slightly different direction, and probably deserves its own topic. Let me know if you would prefer a different title, lunk. Cheers]

[dMz]

Wasn't deforestation blamed for the "extinction" on Easter Island? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

[Omega892R09]

Wasn't deforestation blamed for the "extinction" on Easter Island? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

Yes. And rightly so. See Jared Diamond's 'Collapse'.

On the effects of climate how is the Maple Syrup industry along the US north eastern seaboard getting on these days? I here that the Maple is loosing out in New Hampshire, Vermont and Main etc. and the golden falls may soon be a thing of the past.

Damn that climate change as the globe warms. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) 'a different tune'.

EDIT. Insect species shift territory as the climate changes, sometimes into areas with no natural predators.

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Jun 2 2009, 06:05 AM

[JimMac]

EDIT. Insect species shift territory as the climate changes, sometimes into areas with no natural predators.

That explains the 21C financial district all too plainly.

[dMz]

... sometimes into areas with no natural predators.

NO NATURAL PREDATORS?!!! NO NATURAL predators?!!! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/lolabove.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/buzz.gif)

http://www.desertusa.com/mag01/sep/papr/thawk.html
Tarantula Hawks
http://www.desertusa.com/mag01/sep/papr/photos/thawk.jpg
(IMG:http://www.desertusa.com/mag01/sep/papr/photos/thawk.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5fDTABsn5Y

Yellow Desert Scorpion
http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Yellow-Deser...s_i3546897_.htm
http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pi...ast-Posters.jpg
(IMG:http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/PTGPOD/OSKEB-00000352-001-FB~Yellow-Desert-Scorpion-Androctonus-Australis-Venomous-Africa-Middle-East-Posters.jpg)

Fire Ant
Solenopsis xyloni
http://www.desertusa.com/mag01/aug/papr/ants.html

Yellow jacket or yellow-jacket is the common name in North America for predatory wasps of the genera Vespula and Dolichovespula.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5...espula_0078.JPG
(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Vespula_0078.JPG)

Tarantula
http://www.desertusa.com/july96/du_taran.html
http://www.desertusa.com/july96/photos/Tar...stucco-wall.jpg
(IMG:http://www.desertusa.com/july96/photos/Tarantula-on-stucco-wall.jpg)


Black Widow Spiders
Latrodectus hesperus
http://www.desertusa.com/july97/du_bwindow.html
http://www.desertusa.com/july97/bwidow_02.jpg
(IMG:http://www.desertusa.com/july97/bwidow_02.jpg)

Does anyone else want to play "snakes and other nocturnal creepy-crawlies" with me? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

[lunk]

Yes, we got em all here, black widows, scorpions, and the occasional tarantula that gets shipped in with the bananas to Safeway.

They are now selling very expensive pine beetle hormone that is found in infected trees, that tells the beetle to try a different tree.
The pine beetle will even move to fruit trees, if it runs out of pine.

I think that 40 years is a long time for a human, but not long for a tree.
So a decrease of 22 percent sunshine, would likely, much more affect a tree, and go unnoticed by people.

[Omega892R09]

NO NATURAL PREDATORS?!!! NO NATURAL predators?!!! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/lolabove.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/buzz.gif)

I am so pleased to have provided you with so much fun but was my statement that crass?

Note the word 'sometimes' used!

Edit. Something weird just happened. I hit preview and having spotted a typo on the way canceled and edited only to then find it double posted. Must be the heat. Had an unusual insect in the garden this morning, a Red Belted Clearwing formerly more common in Southern Europe. Not the first arthropod species that I have noted moving its territory north.

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Jun 2 2009, 12:15 PM

[Omega892R09]

I took a picture of that Red Belted Clearwing:

(IMG:http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/Misc/RedBeltClearWings.jpg)

[dMz]

Yes, we got em all here, black widows, scorpions, and the occasional tarantula that gets shipped in with the bananas to Safeway.

Thanks for that lunk. I had no idea that the Northern Scorpion ranges all the way up there (or even scorpions at the latitude that I am currently sitting at up through Montana), but I don't need to drive very far to find some Yellow Desert Scorpions (or rattlesnakes galore). I have found several native Tarantulas around here over the years, and the ant lions are quite an interesting creature to watch. There is also an extremely agressive large, fat native insect? that we always just called a "sand puppy." I'm not even sure what genus or species those things are, but they aren't nice, and they loosely resemble a land crab. Our "free range" toxic Hobo Spiders (common agressive house spider) are very agressive too, and they hunt rather than making webs (which makes them actually more dangerous than Black Widows, since you have to go look for a Black Widow in her "web.")

EDIT: "Sand puppy" apparently is a Jerusalem Cricket (but the ones I found looked quite different from this)
http://entmuseum.ucr.edu/insect-faq-pictur...alem-half-3.jpg
(IMG:http://entmuseum.ucr.edu/insect-faq-pictures/jerusalem-half-3.jpg)
http://entmuseum.ucr.edu/faq_erm.htm

http://www.insects.ucr.edu/ebeling/figures/fig362.jpg
(IMG:http://www.insects.ucr.edu/ebeling/figures/fig362.jpg)
http://www.insects.ucr.edu/ebeling/ebel12....lmatus%20fuscus

Here's something I found while searching for those Canadian scorpions:
http://people.uleth.ca/~dan.johnson/scorpi...scorpion_dj.pdf

My question is how many species of insect, fish, bird, etc. are just being "discovered," and how many "extinct" species have been "re-discovered" over the years by the "experts?" I find much of the "science" to be more than a little arrogant myself. Man gets to arbitrarily decide/define what an insect's "home range" is based on his traditional "field work" or lines someone once drew on a map?

Didn't the Darwins associate with elitist proto-eugenicists in their "Societies" back in the day ("social darwinism" anyone)? Could it be an updated manifestation of "divine right of kings?" Yet another control mechanism...

Of course, I'm still waiting for a non-broken definition of electric charge, and I frequent some places very far off the "beaten path"...

We have insects here that migrate (sometimes in swarms) for hundreds or even thousands of miles (like the Monarch Butterflies and Canada Geese that Lunk and I share). Others are very cyclic in their nature (like our 20 year drought cycle, and we had a nearly 25-year record snowfall this past winter). When I was skiing up near the Canadian border early this year, the Ski Patrol guy couldn't remember a year where they had received so much snow at that resort (but he only moved there from Europe about 14? years ago he told me). Skiers watch the recent (and annual) snowfall quite carefully BTW. Theirs was nearly double than the year before.

It wasn't that many years ago (5-6 maybe) when I was out manning a remote work location (with a full weather station) about 2 hours from here, and one night I got a long distance call from my supervisor to go out and check the [automated] weather station because the -48F "couldn't be" a valid reading. I told him, "Well it will need to wait until about noon tomorrow because it's damn near 50 below out there right now!" I had verified nearby airport weather stations online and with an analog thermometer (since the digital ones would NOT work), and I was staying inside and not going up on any alumin(i)um ladders in the middle of that night. For the rest of you, -48 F is approx -44.44C. +40C in the summers here is actually a little cool if you check the almanac.

Fires and this beetle thing are causing the majority of the local "desertification" that I have seen (although I am so accustomed to "extremes" of temperature I may not notice a 1 deg_C difference from season to season, and "average" can mean many things). The fires and beetles appear to have a strong correlation as well- then there is no more forest (but the wildflowers appear to do extremely well in all the ash).

That is a very nice photo of O892's "bug" on the flower though.

[lunk]

My friends dog got bitten by a rattle snake last year, the anti-venom would have cost over $1000 Canadian/dose, He went with the antibiotics, instead, that cost him $800...it's sort of a good dog, I guess.

I haven't seen a scorpion, but others I know, have found them in their houses, like under the drip coffee machine!
Use to have to spray my shoes for them in Africa.

A healthy tree is less prone to insect infestation.
The sterile insect release program works.
Well, it has worked, in the past.
I think the program was used with success, to get rid of the screw fly, in Libya, some time ago.
They got one going on here, for the coddling moth,
government make work project.
They could totally get rid of the moth,
but that would put thousands out of work,
so, every year, they somehow must find a way,
to never quite succeed, in their purpose.

Great entertainment,
...though, not cheap.

[Omega892R09]

My question is how many species of insect, fish, bird, etc. are just being "discovered," and how many "extinct" species have been "re-discovered" over the years by the "experts?" I find much of the "science" to be more than a little arrogant myself.

The reductionism that comes from those too focused within their own line of research and who neglect obtaining a broader view and of the place of their research within the wider scheme of things is just as you remark.

I found Freeman Dyson's remarks in a recently cited video clip where he was on about the 'flux' of CO2 up and down was just that. Clearly what he needed was a 'flux capacitor' for he would then have been able to see the future and how erroneous he was.

Freeman Dyson is a clever man, much as Edward Teller was in his prime but Teller came off the rails a bit as he aged.

The looking at ecosystems in the round and as just one part of a global, or even universal for that matter, system is emerging strongly. Life on earth has been influenced by geological processes and in turn provides feedback. The two, the inner workings of the earth and the earth's surface environments and life on earth is the correct way of looking at things.

How many times in the history of science and technology has the person with a broader perspective managed to provide the next big advance in thinking about a process or mechanism. One big problem today is that research is so driven by money down specific routes that little room is left for for serendipity.

On ecology etc., this may be of interest:

Guide to the Millennium Assessment Reports

I am just in the process of reading James Lovelock's 'The Revenge of Gaia'. I have been looking for a copy for some time.

Lovelock may have bees in his bonnet but overall he is correct IMHO with Gaia as a name for the concept of the connectedness that I described above. Reading this reveals that Lovelock is not above reviewing his previously expressed opinions, which is of course what an honest scientist should do in the light of new discoveries or re-framing of old concepts.

Find a copy and give it a go. What have you to lose?