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Question's Regarding Colgan Air #5930 / Us Airways Express., Colgan Air #5930 / US Airways Express

SeekingC40
post Feb 13 2014, 11:55 PM
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First of all THANK YOU to everyone who created and maintain this site. I prefer hard facts and scientific method over blind speculation any day. So thanks again.

Ok, sorry to clutter up the message board with these probably simple questions but I can't find clear answers on the web, so I figured I would ask here.

On the morning of 9/11/2001 two of the "hijackers" boarded Colgan Air flight #5930, from PWM to BOS apparently operated under the US Airways Express flag.
My questions are: Should this flight although flown by a contracted regional airline show up as a US Airways flight in the BTS.gov database? How would ATC read a flight such as this?
Do contracted / codeshare flights flown under a national carriers flag get tracked as the national carrier, the regional carrier or both?


The reason I ask is because I can not find any PWM departures or BOS arrivals matching what is known about this flights scheduled times. I searched the BTS database for all flights out of Portland ME, on 9/11/2001 and into Boston
including US Airways, United, Delta and Continental who all at some point contracted Colagan to fly their express flights. The closest I came was an American Eagle flight but the times are nowhere close to the story and I really want to
know if this flight actually existed and if it was bound for BOS. The story indicates the check-in was preformed at a US Airways counter. Unfortunately Colgan is now pretty much defunct from what I understand.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything like that i'm just trying to figure out if it is normal for a flight like this to not be recorded in BTS database and how the process works for these types of flights.

I live in Maine and pass through the Jetport occasionally and the whole story still feels a bit off to me. All I know about aircraft and their operation is as a general passenger and any insight into this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by SeekingC40: Feb 13 2014, 11:57 PM
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amazed!
post Feb 14 2014, 04:46 PM
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I wish I could help answer your question, but I cannot. Welcome to the forum.

Apparently there are several problems with BTS data that contradict the official story.
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paulmichael
post Feb 14 2014, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (SeekingC40 @ Feb 13 2014, 10:55 PM) *
The reason I ask is because I can not find any PWM departures or BOS arrivals matching what is known about this flights scheduled times. I searched the BTS database for all flights out of Portland ME, on 9/11/2001 and into Boston including US Airways, United, Delta and Continental who all at some point contracted Colagan to fly their express flights. The closest I came was an American Eagle flight but the times are nowhere close to the story and I really want to know if this flight actually existed and if it was bound for BOS

DulceDecorum, in reply #9 entitled "No evidence of a Portland connection: VERIFED by BTS Stats" in a thread started July 23, 2004 and entitled, "Mystery: Why Portland? (re:Atta and 9/11)" in another forum at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ress=102x704315 , wrote:
QUOTE
If you check the BTS stats for Portland Jetport and Logan, you will find that it was PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for Atta/Bukhari/Alomari/Whoever to have caught a US Express/Colgan Air flight out of Portland and then hijacked Flight 11.

There is, of course, more content in DulceDecorum's reply.

P.M.
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paulmichael
post Feb 14 2014, 08:36 PM
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I'd be remiss if I did not mention a reply to DulceDecorum in another tread in the other forum at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...p;mesg_id=14299 .

In reply #35, dated July 10, 2004 LoneStar states that "U.S. air carriers that have at least 1 percent of total domestic scheduled-service passenger revenues" are required to report on-time data to the BTS. Colgan air was not required to do so.

P.M.
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SeekingC40
post Feb 15 2014, 10:20 PM
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Thank you for the reply. I should have looked into all this years ago but honestly I never expected the "official story" to hold up as well as it has.

If I could also ask, and I have tried to look this up but I keep getting conflicting answers.

Is it the aircraft itself that reports data such as airborne time and wheels off tines? or is this information entered by operators on the ground that fill in the data to go to BTS?
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poppyburner
post Feb 15 2014, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (Stephen C. Atkins NASA Ames Research Center)
The Department of Transportation (DOT) collects ASQP data to assess the on-time
performance of the major airlines; only the top ten airlines submit data to the DOT. ASQP
data contains a record for every flight the participating airline operates, including the flight
number, origin, destination, date, scheduled departure and arrival times, and the actual OUT,
OFF, ON, and IN (OOOI) times. The OUT time is the time at which the aircraft pushes back
from its gate; the OFF time is the time at which the aircraft takes off; the ON time is time at
which the aircraft lands, and the IN time is the time at which the aircraft reaches its gate. For
aircraft with ACARS datalinks, these times are recorded automatically (e.g., the OFF time is
recorded automatically using a weight-on-wheels sensor)
. For other aircraft, these times are
recorded manually, with less precision and accuracy.


~ http://www.aviationsystemsdivision.arc.nas...tkins_07_02.pdf

QUOTE
ASPM: Data Sources and Update Cycle

Data Source
ARINC

Content
OOOI Data.

Update Cycle
Updated Daily.

Purpose
Source of actual flight times for ACARS-equipped aircraft for eight airlines: AAL, ACA, DAL, FDX, SWA, UAL, UPS, and USA.


~ http://aspmhelp.faa.gov/index.php/ASPM:_Da...nd_Update_Cycle

QUOTE
Airline on-time data are reported each month to the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) by the 14 U.S. air carriers that have at least 1 percent of total domestic scheduled-service passenger revenues, plus one other carrier that reports voluntarily.


~ http://apps.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystati...s/src/index.xml

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=29

This post has been edited by poppyburner: Feb 16 2014, 12:01 AM
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SeekingC40
post Feb 16 2014, 12:03 PM
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Cool thanks for the clarification, I had heard all kinds of different stuff in other forums and sites.
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SeekingC40
post Feb 16 2014, 07:07 PM
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One more question if someone could, I don't think this is worthy of a new thread so I'll just change the subject here.

As far as N numbers go, Once a N# is registered, if it is then moved from one craft to another should there be a deregistration certificate attached for the craft it came from when looking up the number on the FAA site?

I ask because of a note regarding N7601S a Sikorsky helicopter being near the WTC on 9/11 just beforeall hell broke loose.

The search pulls up a certificate for the same type of craft manufactured in 2005 and issued in 2013.

I found a picture of the exact craft mentioned dated 09/2003, N7601S.
http://helimage.foxalpha.com/picture.php?id=74&size=L


So ideally I'm asking if this is normal, should there still be a record of the change? Or is moving these numbers between craft common place and lacks a paper trail?

I did read all the documentation on the FAA site but it only talks about what to do when reserving and registering numbers and so on not what happens to the records when this happens.

This post has been edited by SeekingC40: Feb 16 2014, 07:11 PM
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paulmichael
post Feb 17 2014, 02:10 PM
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Perhaps two Arab types' flying from Portland, Maine to Boston, Massachusetts is one of the few "real" things about 9/11.

In other posts, I stated that it would not take a large number of real people to be passed off as passengers of the "doomed" 9/11 flights to give the world-at-large the false impression that the entire passenger lists of those flights were genuine.

And I similarly stated that it would not take a large number of real people to be passed off as crew members of the "doomed" 9/11 flights to give the world-at-large the false impression that the entire crew lists of those flights were genuine.

And, so, if two Arab fools and patsies were induced for lord-knows-what reasons to fly on 9/11 from Portland to Boston and ended up lord-knows-how, then this would tend to give the world-at-large the false impression that 19 alleged Arab hijackers were very real people on 9/11. (Alternatively, maybe a couple of Arab impostors took that Colgan flight from Portland to Boston on 9/11 for the same false impression reason.)

P.M.
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amazed!
post Feb 19 2014, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (SeekingC40 @ Feb 16 2014, 07:07 PM) *
One more question if someone could, I don't think this is worthy of a new thread so I'll just change the subject here.

As far as N numbers go, Once a N# is registered, if it is then moved from one craft to another should there be a deregistration certificate attached for the craft it came from when looking up the number on the FAA site?

I ask because of a note regarding N7601S a Sikorsky helicopter being near the WTC on 9/11 just beforeall hell broke loose.

The search pulls up a certificate for the same type of craft manufactured in 2005 and issued in 2013.

I found a picture of the exact craft mentioned dated 09/2003, N7601S.
http://helimage.foxalpha.com/picture.php?id=74&size=L


So ideally I'm asking if this is normal, should there still be a record of the change? Or is moving these numbers between craft common place and lacks a paper trail?

I did read all the documentation on the FAA site but it only talks about what to do when reserving and registering numbers and so on not what happens to the records when this happens.


Not exactly sure of your question here, but "moving numbers between aircraft" can be accomplished only if both owners agree to the change, or if one registered owner owned several aircraft I suppose he could move registration numbers around within his fleet.
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