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Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum _ Lobby _ The Best Summary Quote I Have Ever Read

Posted by: Bruce Sinclair Apr 12 2008, 12:32 AM

I would like to personally thank Lt. Col. Shelton Lankford for the best quote I have ever read which summarizes the events of 9/11:

“September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.”

My fondest hope is that every person anywhere on earth who aspires to live in a free and democratic society should read this warning. Sadly, the warnings contained in George Orwell's book "1984" are all coming true.

If there is a way someone could show me how to communicate directly with Lt. Col. Lankford, I would appreciate someone connecting us.

Regards,

Bruce Sinclair

Posted by: rob balsamo Apr 12 2008, 03:18 AM

Hi Bruce,

Good to see you.

Shelton is one of our admins. His user name is http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showuser=633. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Rob

Posted by: painter Apr 12 2008, 05:24 AM

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 11 2008, 09:32 PM) *
“September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.”


handsdown.gif

Thank you for sharing that with us and welcome to the forum!

salute.gif

Posted by: tumetuestumefaisdubien Apr 12 2008, 12:43 PM

QUOTE
"September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger."

Very well said. And we here in Europe, who know a bit what is going on, are anxious what the Americans will do about, because as I see it the US Constitution and republic I consider being one of the last torches of freedom on the Earth.

Just for the information: We also still struggle here and behind the scenes against the ratification of the outrageous Lisboa Treaty - imagine a (EU) "Constitution", of which the half is something like "federal reserve act" (European central bank and Europen investment bank statutes) and the rest legaly taking most of the soveregnity from the national states, legaly abolishing the state borders, even creating the EU citizenship (completely without any consent of the people - how could anyone vote for me becoming a citizen of a foreign empire?) + president of EU, secretary of state, new "EU governement" (so called "Commission") - with almost despotic authorities...etc.(and yet "they" still insist it is "NOT a constitution") , imagine a document comprising of 200 pages + another 300 pages of "protocols" and former EU treaty + a crazy "Bill of Rights" in style a la "Universal declaration of human rights" (almost no civil rights included - no 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Amendments..) + unknown amount of secret "appendixes" (the US Constitution has 15 pages including all Amendments, is clear, unambiquous, and one can read it in half an hour - and still is quite hard to enforce it...apparently...) The whole Lisboa Treaty (just a renamed version of the "EU Constitution" - as Czech president Klaus put it up) looks - much more than like a "Constitution" - like a charter of a monstrous corporation ...closing the ring and all of us here into a 1984 empire.

We've already lost the main freedom "ally" France (now under the rule of the exposed Mossad sayan Sakozy) - which 3 years ago refused the later "EU Constitution" in referendum - but has ratified Lisboa Treaty in parliament on 2/7 2008. (You just kick the NWO jerks from the doors and they come through the window.) Imagine - the Brussels even denied the official consolidated translation of the Lisboa Treaty to the national languages (to "avoid excessive discussion" which burried the "EU Constitution") - and yet - already 9 EU states ratified it. It defies common sense. Most probably most of the MP's haven't even read it (how they could anyway read it and understand, if there is no official consolidated translation?...), but yet voted Aye in the parliaments... Hungary12/17 2007, Slovenia 01/29 2008, Malta 01/29 2008, Romania 02/04 2008, France 07/02 2008, Bulgaria 03/03 2008, Poland 04/02 2008, Ausria 04/02 2008, Slovakia 04/11 2008...
And most of the normal people are crushed by continuous propaganda in MSM. Several weeks ago for example I asked the editor of the "most free" Czech internet journal to start a serie of articles about the Lisboa Treaty to reveal to the people, what is it all about. You know what he answered to me?: "I'm for the Lisboa Treaty." So I've asked him: "Did you read it?" ...no answer so far.

If somebody from the fellow American truthseekers wants to see what a fate the corporatists (fascists) prepare for the poor Europeans, the copy of the unconsolidated version of the Lisboa Treaty is http://bookshop.europa.eu/eubookshop/FileCache/PUBPDF/FXAC07306ENC/FXAC07306ENC_002.pdf
Just have a look...Then you could realy appreciate the US Constitution even more...

Posted by: Sanders Apr 12 2008, 01:59 PM

Of course, the EU and the Federal Reserve are not exactly unrelated. NOTHING is unrelated in my opinion. All around the world, even here in Japan, the same lame excuses, the "War on Terror" being one of them, used over and over to justify incremental changes in the system - inch by inch - toward what can only be assumed to be international government and total control of the people and total awareness of their activities. P#sses me off, because I can see it happening, the pace has picked up so markedly. And they are relentless, and they have the mainstream media on their side, and average people go about their business, complaining about taxes and the price of gasoline, but unaware of the orchestrated & tyrannical forces that are squeasing them. I guess I'm talking about Japan, which is what I know, but I imagine it's pretty much the same most of the world over.

I'm torn about the Japanese, there are good and not so good things to be said about the state of things here. The Bank of Japan is not completely owned by the crooks who run the Federal Reserve, just half of it. I imagine a deal was struck many years ago - between them and who I don't know. On paper, the BOJ is half owned by the Japanese Government, or people, depending on your semantics. Another great thing about Japan - no Walmarts yet, or any signs that people would go to one to buy anything laugh.gif ... but, the Japanese are far too willing to accept invasion of their privacy, they buy with their cell-phone, they are totally used to giving out their phone number & address as identifying information pursuant to any transaction - from buying a pizza to transfering your rent payment, no one things anything of it. The "hip" car-driving people here all have a GPS device in their cars that automatically pay tolls, they sail right through the toll booth and the toll is deducted from their bank account. I think there are a lot of Japanese that are gonna think it's "cool" to have a chip implanted in their arm. Convenience. I just want to scream, WAKE UP YOU MORONS!

Then again, we have Councillor Fujita (god bless you Mr. Fujita!) smile.gif ... and, the cherry blossoms (cherry trees are blooming right now). There's one thing the Japanese will NEVER, EVER, allow to be taken from them. The chance to sit under the blossoming cherry trees in April and drink and sing and talk and enjoy life with their friends.

Posted by: Sanders Apr 12 2008, 02:04 PM

Oh, I forgot

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 11 2008, 09:32 PM) *
“September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.”


handsdown.gif

Very, very well said, Bruce Sinclair.

Posted by: jo56 Apr 12 2008, 02:28 PM

I agree! The people of the world must demand a new investigation of 911. The corrupt people running the world currently must be brought to justice, and our governments must be purged of these traitors. Only then will we really be FREE!

Well said, Bruce!

Posted by: maturin42 Apr 12 2008, 02:55 PM

QUOTE (jo56 @ Apr 10 2008, 04:28 PM) *
I agree! The people of the world must demand a new investigation of 911. The corrupt people running the world currently must be brought to justice, and our governments must be purged of these traitors. Only then will we really be FREE!

Well said, Bruce!


For the record, as you will see in the first post in this thread, Bruce was quoting me in a statement made to Alan Miller for his article "Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11". Bruce credited me in his initial message, and that got left out of subsequent quotes.
SFL

Posted by: Sanders Apr 12 2008, 03:11 PM

I should-a-known. Very well quoted, Bruce, - very well said Maturin42 thumbsup.gif cheers.gif It really is one of those snippets that consolodate and express the feelings of a 9-11 truth generation ... I wouldn't be surprised if it is repeated in a hundred years from now as those of Thomas Jefferson are this day. Wouldn't be surprised at all.

Posted by: jo56 Apr 12 2008, 07:43 PM

cheers.gif Maturing42

Posted by: Zapzarap Apr 12 2008, 08:25 PM

Maturin's statement deserves a special place on this site IMO!

What about a 'Famous 9/11 statements' - pinned topic (or sub-forum) in the Library or even on the front page of P4T?
(feedback by PM plse)



Compliments also to tume for his post on the Lisboa Treaty.

In Austria there are currently rallys with 1000s of people going on nearly every day in Vienna, demanding a national referendum.
But our complicit politicians ignore the rallys together with the National TV-Station ORF.

revealing detail:
When the public discussion and citizens' groups like http://rettet-oesterreich.at/ gained momentum, an Austrian tourist-couple was hijacked in the Algerian desert by bandits. Within hours the media echoed that the hijackers were 'members of the 'Algerian Al-Qaida'!!!

This is the classical mafia-method of warning everybody including Austrian politicians, who are in the plot:

"Don't make a wrong move and don't even think about a referendum! Al-Qaida is in position! Sure you don't want Al-Qaida to spoil your European Soccer Championship in July2008!"

Posted by: tumetuestumefaisdubien Apr 12 2008, 10:50 PM

Well put Sanders! It looks like the people in Eurasia, Eastasia etc., who know a bit what is going on, feel it almost same way. I think all over the world are some "cherry blossoms" the people would gather around, even there would be a nuclear war just behind the fence of the garden or a bunch of the CCTV in the tree top.
I think we should start to scream louder...

Posted by: Bruce Sinclair Apr 13 2008, 02:52 AM

Thanks for all the great discussions!

I feel very strongly that we need to keep the pressure on and expose (via the internet) every dirty little trick as soon as it is discovered. I fear that the secret government in the US is not going to give up power this fall easily. I feel that they have another false flag operation in the works which will probably involve a nuclear device (probably on US soil) and this will be used as a pretext for war with Iran and the declaration of Martial Law and the suspension of all remaining freedoms in the US.

I would strongly encourage everyone to go to the library and get out a copy of "1984" and read (or re-read) it. It is uncanny how the world is becoming re-organized along lines predicted in the book. Also, the idea of a perpeptual war (can you say "War on Terror"?) was accurately predicted in the book. The shifting alliances were also predicted (remember who armed Saddam to fight a proxy war against Iran? - remember who funded the insurgents in Afghanistan?)

Posted by: rob balsamo Apr 13 2008, 03:12 AM

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 13 2008, 02:52 AM) *
I would strongly encourage everyone to go to the library and get out a copy of "1984" and read (or re-read) it.




http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=4746&st=0#entry7954206

wink.gif

Posted by: Omega892R09 Apr 13 2008, 07:43 AM

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 11 2008, 05:52 AM) *
I would strongly encourage everyone to go to the library and get out a copy of "1984" and read (or re-read) it. It is uncanny how the world is becoming re-organized along lines predicted in the book.

I would not be at all surprised if this book was on the list of required reading for all NWO, Bilderberg, etc., members.

There are the first indications here in the UK that authorities are considering the banning of subversive or inflammatory literature from public libraries. I would suspect that the parameters for classifying such literature would be very loose. Have you ever wondered why politics is full of lawyers?

1984 would be one of the first to be banned, and burned with all books by David Ray Griffin et. al. quickly following.

I have already noted how libraries are being dumbed down and becoming more like entertainment centres - the enfeeblement of the general population as far as education and critical thinking is concerned is a policy already well advanced.

Posted by: jadenter Apr 13 2008, 11:36 AM

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 13 2008, 06:52 AM) *
I would strongly encourage everyone to go to the library and get out a copy of "1984" and read (or re-read) it. It is uncanny how the world is becoming re-organized along lines predicted in the book. Also, the idea of a perpeptual war (can you say "War on Terror"?) was accurately predicted in the book. The shifting alliances were also predicted (remember who armed Saddam to fight a proxy war against Iran? - remember who funded the insurgents in Afghanistan?)


There is no need to go to the library to read Orwell's 1984 or Animal Farm. All of Orwells books are available for free online. And the movie "1984" posted by Rob B. is also very good and it was interesting to see Richard Burton in a staring role. There is even for those that still have prurient minds, some nudity in the film.

Complete works of George Orwell: http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/index.html

Jeff D

Posted by: Alan Miller Apr 13 2008, 01:26 PM

Shelton and ten other members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth were quoted in the article, Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 -- Official Account of 9/11: “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Total B.S.”, “Ludicrous”, “A Well-Organized Cover-up”, “A White-Washed Farce”

Powerful statements from extremely credible people who devoted large portions of their lives to defending our country.

The original article from 1/14/08 can be found on OpEdNews at http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_080112_twenty_five_u_s__mil.htm

A printable PDF of the article can be found at http://patriotsquestion911.com/#Articles

Thanks to all of you for having the courage and integrity to take a public stand on this. As Shelton said, it's "the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes."

Posted by: heliweli Apr 13 2008, 02:16 PM

A bit off topic, but I must congratulate Alan on "Patriotics Question 9/11." It is a great site to visit.

Posted by: Omega892R09 Apr 13 2008, 02:44 PM

QUOTE (Alan Miller @ Apr 11 2008, 03:26 PM) *
A printable PDF of the article can be found at http://patriotsquestion911.com/#Articles

Thanks to all of you for having the courage and integrity to take a public stand on this. As Shelton said, it's "the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes."

Thanks for that link, or rather reminder - I have visited often before - impressive. Should be made more of perhaps.

Gen. Albert Stubblebine - didn't his name crop up in discussions about GW's National Guard records?

I must track down the book I have here with that stuff in.

Posted by: Sanders Apr 13 2008, 03:25 PM

Patriotsquestion9-11 is the most important and relevant site on the entire web IMO. (barring P4T of course smile.gif )

Posted by: amazed! Apr 13 2008, 05:06 PM

Very well written.

Posted by: Alan Miller Apr 14 2008, 07:41 PM

I'd also submit the statement by Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS Aeronautical Science, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Retired U.S. Air Force command fighter pilot. Former instructor; U.S. Air Force Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program.

"After 4+ years of research since retirement in 2002, I am 100% convinced that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were planned, organized, and committed by treasonous perpetrators that have infiltrated the highest levels of our government. It is now time to take our country back. ...

We cannot let the pursuit of justice fail. Those of us in the military took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". Just because we have retired does not make that oath invalid, so it is not just our responsibility, it is our duty to expose the real perpetrators of 9/11 and bring them to justice, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how much we have to suffer to do it.

We owe it to those who have gone before us who executed that same oath, and who are doing the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Those of us who joined the military and faithfully executed orders that were given us had to trust our leaders. The violation and abuse of that trust is not only heinous, but ultimately the most accurate definition of treason!" http://patriotsquestion911.com/#Razer

Posted by: painter Apr 15 2008, 12:51 AM

Thanks, Alan. I hope everyone in the military comes to embrace Lt. Col. Razer's insight, courage and fortitude.

Posted by: Bruce Sinclair May 11 2008, 03:24 PM

Is there any possibility that this thread could be "pinned"? I would like all new members to get a chance to read this very important quote from Shelton and would hate to see it disappear in the back pages!

Thanks!

Posted by: painter May 11 2008, 03:49 PM

Sure. Great idea.

Looks like someone got to it before me, though.

thumbsup.gif

Posted by: Bruce Sinclair May 11 2008, 04:09 PM

Thanks so much for "pinning" this!

Posted by: ronallen Aug 2 2011, 04:06 AM

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 10 2008, 03:32 AM) *
My fondest hope is that every person anywhere on earth who aspires to live in a free and democratic society should read this warning. Sadly, the warnings contained in George Orwell's book "1984" are all coming true.

I feel that the real downfall of the system is education and in particular education about reality. It seems to me that for a hugely vast majority of all people there is a very profound gap between the way that they think things should be or ought to be and the way things really are. The reality of what is is that we are far less free-willed than nearly all people want to believe. There are certain aspects of human nature, particularly the nature of certain individuals, that seemingly can't be avoided. It is in the nature of some people to have an insatiable longing for power or control even at the expense of pretty much all others.
Any long term successful system of governance should and has to be created from a sound understanding of the reality of all relevant things. And everyone under the umbrella of that system needs to be educated as to the realities and the real consequences of the actions of those who would gain important policy making positions within that system.
One thing for sure is we cannot have too much faith in the system being fair on its own with the expectation that it will be self correcting. Real action is ALWAYS needed to maintain a system that is beneficial to all or nearly all within. Talk and words alone don't really qualify...ironicly enough.

Posted by: Bruce Sinclair Oct 8 2011, 11:48 PM

This is why we need a return to the rule of law, and a restoration of the checks and balances of the 3 levels of government. I'm not hopeful that this can happen now.

Posted by: Pointer Dec 13 2011, 01:07 PM

QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Apr 12 2008, 05:43 PM) *
... Just for the information: We also still struggle here and behind the scenes against the ratification of the outrageous Lisboa Treaty - imagine a (EU) "Constitution", of which the half is something like "federal reserve act" (European central bank and Europen investment bank statutes) and the rest legaly taking most of the soveregnity from the national states, legaly abolishing the state borders, even creating the EU citizenship (completely without any consent of the people - how could anyone vote for me becoming a citizen of a foreign empire?) + president of EU, secretary of state, new "EU governement" (so called "Commission") - with almost despotic authorities...etc.(and yet "they" still insist it is "NOT a constitution") , imagine a document comprising of 200 pages + another 300 pages of "protocols" and former EU treaty + a crazy "Bill of Rights" in style a la "Universal declaration of human rights" (almost no civil rights included - no 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Amendments..) + unknown amount of secret "appendixes" (the US Constitution has 15 pages including all Amendments, is clear, unambiquous, and one can read it in half an hour - and still is quite hard to enforce it...apparently...) The whole Lisboa Treaty (just a renamed version of the "EU Constitution" - as Czech president Klaus put it up) looks - much more than like a "Constitution" - like a charter of a monstrous corporation ...closing the ring and all of us here into a 1984 empire. ...

While I completely agree with the opening statement of this topic, I have to take distance from unrelated discussion about the European Union and the Lisbon Treaty. Nevertheless some qualifications are partially right, e.g. the Treaty isn't a European "Constitution." It is in fact a bundled treaty, because it summarizes all the former treaties, adding some new and more democratic controls, especially empowering the European parliament. The members of this parliament are chosen by direct elections in all the member-states and represent the supreme power of the European people over the European Commission - they can send the Commission, appointed by the gathering of heads of states and approved by the parliament, home by a single majority. My statement here will reject the Brave New World conspiracy and the virtual New World Order with the proper information.

You have to understand, that the commissioners are not and can't be despotic rulers, because they are first not despotic and second they execute the existing rules and laws that are agreed on in the democratic process by the European parliament and the parliaments of all the member states. The procedure is more a look alike the constitutional procedure in the USA, that needs agreement of the 50 states to become the law of the land, like the Amendments of the Constitution. All national parliaments have the right to veto. That is meant to secure that only the necessary rules become invoked. So, to call the European Commission a European government is not correct, because the Commission is not a legislative body, but an executive administration. It's only executing existing laws and rules, as found in the existing treaties, we all agreed on by majorities of the voters and, in some cases, by national referendums. The legislative procedure is a very complicated and deeply rooted in the will of the people. While the Lisbon Treaty is confusing by its nature of a bundle the underlying rules and laws are not ambiguous, but clear texts. If you have to bundle all that texts it becomes somewhat fuzzy and that's why you can't call it a Constitution like the Dutch and American constitutions, that are as short as clip and clear in themselves. It has made the whole concept an example of bad communications, hard to oversee and understand, but that doesn't effect the rightness of tits meaning and content. As a Dutchman and an European I have to apologize for that.

In historic order you had first the European Coal-and-Steel Community (ECC) that became later on the European Economic Community (EEC) (with by then until now also Norway as a full member). Furthermore evolved the European (Economic) Monetary Union (EMU) and by the Lisbon Treaty the European Union (EU). Since 1992 the Eurozone came in shape within the European Union, with the common euro as its currency, effected 1999 and in full practice since 2001. The euro is used by 500 million Europeans but not by all of them because the United Kingdom, Denmark, Sweden and some new member-states did (until now) not participate in the final Eurozone. They are free to do that, but in the meantime still participating in the EMU, so all the European currencies are coupled. Also all the Central National Banks are unified under the European Central Bank (ECB), that is a politically independent institute. Central banks serve the interests, liability and safety of all the private banks in their territories and the European Central bank is coordinating that. But unlike the Federal Reserve the ECB is not owned by private banks. It is not owned by any entity. Apart from that, most member-states also do have a financial authority, an institute that protects the interests of consumers. That kind of functions with anti-trust rules are also integrated in the European Commission and it is comparable with the American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Consumer_Financial_Protection_Bureau.

The growing European unity is based on bargaining treaties between sovereign states under the democratic control of the parliaments of those states or by people's referendum. There is no and will not be treaties without consensus, but as usual, all treaties in history and the world are actions of give and take, that effect the sovereignty of the states involved, just like the results of bargain at the kitchen table at home. The results and agreements are binding for all sides. It is a good custom to act according those agreements, you are obliged too by free will, even when it turns out to be not in your interest at a certain moment. It shapes stability and security as a main goal for all and regarding economic issues that's a huge benefit. So the EU and especially the Eurozone, did very well, but, as you know, trust is beautiful, but control is better and a lack of control led first to the banking-crisis and lastly to the current debt-crisis in the Eurozone. France opposed that control of an European financial authority to guard the agreement that no member-state should have a larger national debt than 60% of their GDP and no larger budget-deficit than 3% of their GDP. By now France gave up this opposition against guarding the financial agreements and that will lead tot the new institution of a independent European Budget Authority. It doesn't change the rules of the game but it delivers the effective arbitration we need.
This does not mean that the Budget Authority has the power to direct how member-states have to furnish their budgets, because that is regarding the political process and relations inside that sovereign state and there are of course different ways to keep national debts and national deficits within the agreed borders.

In the same time we see the growing globalization teaching us that we are all close together on a small sphere and all the people on it share the same desire of freedom and prosperity, some (the 1%) focused on their greed and most (the 99%) focused on their need. That's not new, but not all of us could see that during the times of the past. That changed since pilots ship us around over the globe in their planes. So we contact and see each other to learn that we are all more divided than different. So instead of fighting each other by war, nations are more and more grouping together, founding democratic controlled institutions that serve us all. It's not a coordinated plan of action of the few "elites" and it can't be something like that, because that "elites" of the 1% are divided too with conflicting interests and with all the small steps we count the votes. Our game of European unity will be a standard for a better world, still different people but not divided anymore.
But as long as people believe to belong to the one and only country, blessed under a virtual supreme being, God, Allah or JHW, there will always remain a motive to destruction. Perhaps some time all humans will understand that religion and ideology are the forces to divide the world. Building European unity has nothing to do with that.

Posted by: GroundPounder Dec 13 2011, 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Pointer @ Dec 11 2011, 04:07 PM) *
While I completely agree with the opening statement of this topic, I have to take distance from unrelated discussion about the European Union and the Lisbon Treaty. Nevertheless some qualifications are partially right, e.g. the Treaty isn't a European "Constitution." It is in fact a bundled treaty, because it summarizes all the former treaties, adding some new and more democratic controls, especially empowering the European parliament. The members of this parliament are chosen by direct elections in all the member-states and represent the supreme power of the European people over the European Commission - they can send the Commission, appointed by the gathering of heads of states and approved by the parliament, home by a single majority. My statement here will reject the Brave New World conspiracy and the virtual New World Order with the proper information.

You have to understand, that the commissioners are not and can't be despotic rulers, because they are first not despotic and second they execute the existing rules and laws that are agreed on in the democratic process by the European parliament and the parliaments of all the member states. The procedure is more a look alike the constitutional procedure in the USA, that needs agreement of the 50 states to become the law of the land, like the Amendments of the Constitution. All national parliaments have the right to veto. That is meant to secure that only the necessary rules become invoked. So, to call the European Commission a European government is not correct, because the Commission is not a legislative body, but an executive administration. It's only executing existing laws and rules, as found in the existing treaties, we all agreed on by majorities of the voters and, in some cases, by national referendums. The legislative procedure is a very complicated and deeply rooted in the will of the people. While the Lisbon Treaty is confusing by its nature of a bundle the underlying rules and laws are not ambiguous, but clear texts. If you have to bundle all that texts it becomes somewhat fuzzy and that's why you can't call it a Constitution like the Dutch and American constitutions, that are as short as clip and clear in themselves. It has made the whole concept an example of bad communications, hard to oversee and understand, but that doesn't effect the rightness of tits meaning and content. As a Dutchman and an European I have to apologize for that.

In historic order you had first the European Coal-and-Steel Community (ECC) that became later on the European Economic Community (EEC) (with by then until now also Norway as a full member). Furthermore evolved the European (Economic) Monetary Union (EMU) and by the Lisbon Treaty the European Union (EU). Since 1992 the Eurozone came in shape within the European Union, with the common euro as its currency, effected 1999 and in full practice since 2001. The euro is used by 500 million Europeans but not by all of them because the United Kingdom, Denmark, Sweden and some new member-states did (until now) not participate in the final Eurozone. They are free to do that, but in the meantime still participating in the EMU, so all the European currencies are coupled. Also all the Central National Banks are unified under the European Central Bank (ECB), that is a politically independent institute. Central banks serve the interests, liability and safety of all the private banks in their territories and the European Central bank is coordinating that. But unlike the Federal Reserve the ECB is not owned by private banks. It is not owned by any entity. Apart from that, most member-states also do have a financial authority, an institute that protects the interests of consumers. That kind of functions with anti-trust rules are also integrated in the European Commission and it is comparable with the American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren#Consumer_Financial_Protection_Bureau.

The growing European unity is based on bargaining treaties between sovereign states under the democratic control of the parliaments of those states or by people's referendum. There is no and will not be treaties without consensus, but as usual, all treaties in history and the world are actions of give and take, that effect the sovereignty of the states involved, just like the results of bargain at the kitchen table at home. The results and agreements are binding for all sides. It is a good custom to act according those agreements, you are obliged too by free will, even when it turns out to be not in your interest at a certain moment. It shapes stability and security as a main goal for all and regarding economic issues that's a huge benefit. So the EU and especially the Eurozone, did very well, but, as you know, trust is beautiful, but control is better and a lack of control led first to the banking-crisis and lastly to the current debt-crisis in the Eurozone. France opposed that control of an European financial authority to guard the agreement that no member-state should have a larger national debt than 60% of their GDP and no larger budget-deficit than 3% of their GDP. By now France gave up this opposition against guarding the financial agreements and that will lead tot the new institution of a independent European Budget Authority. It doesn't change the rules of the game but it delivers the effective arbitration we need.
This does not mean that the Budget Authority has the power to direct how member-states have to furnish their budgets, because that is regarding the political process and relations inside that sovereign state and there are of course different ways to keep national debts and national deficits within the agreed borders.

In the same time we see the growing globalization teaching us that we are all close together on a small sphere and all the people on it share the same desire of freedom and prosperity, some (the 1%) focused on their greed and most (the 99%) focused on their need. That's not new, but not all of us could see that during the times of the past. That changed since pilots ship us around over the globe in their planes. So we contact and see each other to learn that we are all more divided than different. So instead of fighting each other by war, nations are more and more grouping together, founding democratic controlled institutions that serve us all. It's not a coordinated plan of action of the few "elites" and it can't be something like that, because that "elites" of the 1% are divided too with conflicting interests and with all the small steps we count the votes. Our game of European unity will be a standard for a better world, still different people but not divided anymore.
But as long as people believe to belong to the one and only country, blessed under a virtual supreme being, God, Allah or JHW, there will always remain a motive to destruction. Perhaps some time all humans will understand that religion and ideology are the forces to divide the world. Building European unity has nothing to do with that.



you really need to lay off the kool-aid.

Posted by: beijingyank Nov 15 2013, 12:06 PM

QUOTE (Bruce Sinclair @ Apr 11 2008, 11:32 PM) *
I would like to personally thank Lt. Col. Shelton Lankford for the best quote I have ever read which summarizes the events of 9/11:

“September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.”

My fondest hope is that every person anywhere on earth who aspires to live in a free and democratic society should read this warning. Sadly, the warnings contained in George Orwell's book "1984" are all coming true.

If there is a way someone could show me how to communicate directly with Lt. Col. Lankford, I would appreciate someone connecting us.

Regards,

Bruce Sinclair

Here! Here! Great post!

Posted by: 23investigator Nov 16 2013, 12:20 AM

QUOTE (beijingyank @ Nov 16 2013, 01:36 AM) *
Here! Here! Great post!


It is much beyond a great post, it is a petition to all decent humanity, which could be started by the signature of every member of this forum, then proceeded to the international stage.

Here is my signature. Robert Douglas Sheehan, South Australia, Australia.

Posted by: Rearden Mar 21 2015, 01:50 PM

You know what I dont understand. When you point out to the deniers that admittedly there were 9 cell phone calls from flight 93 made from passengers phones not the planes phone system, and point out that it was impossible for that to have happened for another 3 years all you get is crickets.
http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040716/news_1n16phones.html

"At 25,000 feet, Qualcomm tests its cell phone plans for planes

By Kathryn Balint
STAFF WRITER

July 16, 2004


MICHAEL AINSWORTH / Dallas Morning News
Qualcomm Chairman Irwin Jacobs made the first cell phone call on yesterday's test flight.
Aboard an American Airlines flight from Dallas yesterday, nearly five dozen passengers whipped out their cell phones and did the unthinkable: made calls. Among them was Qualcomm Chairman Irwin Jacobs, who made the first call............"

Posted by: Rearden Mar 21 2015, 01:55 PM

Something else that I find baffling is the "jet fuel down the 54 elevator shafts" claim. Clearly only 1 elevator went top to bottom.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/structural/wtc2.htm

Posted by: Truthissweet Mar 22 2015, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Rearden @ Mar 21 2015, 12:55 PM) *
Something else that I find baffling is the "jet fuel down the 54 elevator shafts" claim. Clearly only 1 elevator went top to bottom.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/structural/wtc2.htm


The WTC was built to contain any fuel from going floor to floor. People who still think jet fuel flowed downward need to get a life. I am speaking about a complete bullshit artist named Willie Rodriguez.

Posted by: amazed! Mar 24 2015, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Mar 22 2015, 10:33 AM) *
The WTC was built to contain any fuel from going floor to floor. People who still think jet fuel flowed downward need to get a life. I am speaking about a complete bullshit artist named Willie Rodriguez.


Where and when did Rodriguez say jetfuel flowed down?

Posted by: Truthissweet Mar 24 2015, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 24 2015, 08:24 AM) *
Where and when did Rodriguez say jetfuel flowed down?



Amazed, I consider you a good poster but Willie is a complete fraud.

https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/home
QUOTE
"The fire, the ball of fire, for example, I was in the basement when the first plane hit the building. And at that moment, I thought it was an electrical generator that blew up at that moment. A person comes running into the office saying 'explosion, explosion, explosion.' When I look at this guy; has all his skin pulled off of his body. Hanging from the top of his fingertips like it was a glove. And I said, what happened? He said the elevators. What happened was the ball of fire went down with such a force down the elevator shaft on the 58th (50A) – freight elevator, the biggest freight elevator that we have in the North Tower, it went out with such a force that it broke the cables. It went down, I think seven flights. The person survived because he was pulled from the B3 level. But this person, being in front of the doors waiting for the elevator, practically got his skin vaporized." Read his entire statement here.

Posted by: NP1Mike Mar 24 2015, 07:11 PM

QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Mar 24 2015, 02:03 PM) *
Amazed, I consider you a good poster but Willie is a complete fraud.

https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/home


Truthissweet, I have read the page you linked to and many others about Mr. Rodriguez.
I have a different take on the man than you do.

The page you linked to was written by a "debunker". He believes the OCT.

In all the research I have done about 9/11, I have only discovered a few people who don't believe Mr. Rodriguez's story.

It's a pity you are one of them.

Could he have been mistaken on 9/11 and for a while after that about certain events from the day?
Absolutely!

Have you ever been mistaken about something that occurred on 9/11?
I know I have, many times.

Once again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.


Posted by: excontroller Mar 24 2015, 11:09 PM

QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Dec 13 2011, 12:16 PM) *
you really need to lay off the kool-aid.


I tend to agree...with this guy from The Netherlands. I think people need to hold their own beliefs, regarding GOD, but it SEEMS to me, that when WE humans get together and ORGANIZE religions, in the NAME of GOD, we mess things up really well! But as far as getting Europeans together in one union......GOOD LUCK with that. It might be akin to thinking Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland will someday show love and respect for each other and MEAN IT! Or Arabs and Jews....I do NOT think it has much potential.

Posted by: Truthissweet Mar 25 2015, 08:08 AM

Willie is a fraud. Enjoy. Read that article again above. I can't believe anyone takes Willie at face value.

http://letsrollforums.com/willie-rodriguez-community-expose-t26116.html

http://letsrollforums.com/willie-dove-under-fire-t25129.html

http://letsrollforums.com/press-release-william-rodriguez-t24680.html

http://letsrollforums.com/911-hero-lies-willie-t26491.html

http://letsrollforums.com/story-stairwell-b-story-t27086.html

http://letsrollforums.com/william-rodriguez-x-hero-t24726.html

http://letsrollforums.com/super-xclusivo-tv-interviews-t26404.html

Posted by: amazed! Mar 25 2015, 08:23 AM

Truthiss

I must agree with NPMike. You offer as support for you claim against Rodriguez the rantings of a person who believes the OCT, and there might be some significance to that, don't know for sure.

But aside from that, I'm here to say that I've personally watched 3 or 4 different interviews with Willy, and speeches by Willy, including 1 in Europe. He is not a fraud, and his telling the story is very consistent. That his testimony at the 911 Commission was taken behind closed doors and NOT included in the final report is strong testimony to his truth telling. His testimony so contradicted the OCT that they could not include it in the sham final report.

I do not recall hearing him refer to jetfuel or elevators, but if he did (as mentioned in your post above) it is possible that in the context he was speaking, he was speculating as to cause. Making an error in speculation does NOT qualify one as being a fraud.

As I recall, Willy simply told the story and did not speculate.

The record shows that Willy's story was a threat to the OCT, in a big way. That is good.

Posted by: Truthissweet Mar 25 2015, 10:53 AM

QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 25 2015, 07:23 AM) *
Truthiss

I must agree with NPMike. You offer as support for you claim against Rodriguez the rantings of a person who believes the OCT, and there might be some significance to that, don't know for sure.

But aside from that, I'm here to say that I've personally watched 3 or 4 different interviews with Willy, and speeches by Willy, including 1 in Europe. He is not a fraud, and his telling the story is very consistent. That his testimony at the 911 Commission was taken behind closed doors and NOT included in the final report is strong testimony to his truth telling. His testimony so contradicted the OCT that they could not include it in the sham final report.

I do not recall hearing him refer to jetfuel or elevators, but if he did (as mentioned in your post above) it is possible that in the context he was speaking, he was speculating as to cause. Making an error in speculation does NOT qualify one as being a fraud.

As I recall, Willy simply told the story and did not speculate.

The record shows that Willy's story was a threat to the OCT, in a big way. That is good.


That is what WRod is supposed to do. Convince people like you he is against the OCT. HE HAS ALWAYS CHANGED HIS STORY. He is a fraud. Wake up. I feel sorry for people like you that do not read all that has been researched about him. He can't say he was trapped under a firetruck for 4-5 hours then be on CNN at 1:30 PM. Read the threads I posted. Take your time. This is so sad you and others are so afraid to look at how he had changed his story. My final post. I am outta here. Again, read the threads I posted. So obvious. One more time, THE GUY IS A GODDAMN FRAUD.

Posted by: NP1Mike Mar 25 2015, 01:35 PM

QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Mar 25 2015, 09:53 AM) *
HE HAS ALWAYS CHANGED HIS STORY. He is a fraud. Wake up. I feel sorry for people like you that do not read all that has been researched about him. He can't say he was trapped under a firetruck for 4-5 hours then be on CNN at 1:30 PM. Read the threads I posted. Take your time. This is so sad you and others are so afraid to look at how he had changed his story. My final post. I am outta here. Again, read the threads I posted. So obvious. One more time, THE GUY IS A GODDAMN FRAUD.



Truthissweet, it is a pity that your main source of proof that WR is a fraud is the LRF.

PJ of LRF got into a personal spat with WR and as a result has plastered his website with a load of bunk about him.

Again, as I have stated, there are only a handful of people on the net who openly criticize/question his honesty.
The vast majority of people believe his story.

PJ is obsessed with tearing apart WR's timeline. Like WR was walking around with a stopwatch on 9/11, making logs into his notebook about where he was at this or that time, and how long he stayed here and there. whistle.gif









Posted by: Truthissweet Mar 25 2015, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Mar 25 2015, 12:35 PM) *
Truthissweet, it is a pity that your main source of proof that WR is a fraud is the LRF.

PJ of LRF got into a personal spat with WR and as a result has plastered his website with a load of bunk about him.

Again, as I have stated, there are only a handful of people on the net who openly criticize/question his honesty.
The vast majority of people believe his story.

PJ is obsessed with tearing apart WR's timeline. Like WR was walking around with a stopwatch on 9/11, making logs into his notebook about where he was at this or that time, and how long he stayed here and there. whistle.gif


Read the threads. Read the evidence. WRod has changed his story. List those who believe WRod. You are in the minority. Are you backstopping Willie? Sure sound like it. I hope not.

Posted by: NP1Mike Mar 25 2015, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Mar 25 2015, 01:37 PM) *
Read the threads. Read the evidence. WRod has changed his story. List those who believe WRod. You are in the minority. Are you backstopping Willie? Sure sound like it. I hope not.


The only ones I have found who don't believe WR are PJ at LRF, his small set of disciples and yourself.


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