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Pentagon Lawn Images, Chronological order

KP50
post Mar 9 2011, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Mar 9 2011, 04:06 PM) *
G'day KP!

I've been trying to gather images from around the same area and timeframe for each section of the lawn (I need more hi-res images but I'm workin on it) for before and after shots.

The one piece of "debris" in the entire southern section pops up then disappears within minutes. The helipad gradually gets cluttered but I've some good shots that clear the myth up about "scraps of aluminium".

The North contains the larger lettered debris but I'm still working on the timeframes and just where (the f***) they were originally before the FBI started pulling them out of thin air (has to be from behind the heliport AFAIK).

I'm thinking of doing a chronological set of stills in video form to gradually show "before and after". Just going to keep digging for a bit first (you know me..rip the arse clean out of it lol)

thumbsup.gif

Then you are doing good work, that was what I hoped you would say! Dig away, moleman.
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signalfire
post Mar 9 2011, 03:46 AM
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Has anyone identified this:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/SP...reliefplmw9.jpg

I'm not a pilot or an aircraft mechanic, but it looks from the picture like that thing has a wooden keel! Is there ANYthing on a large jet that would look like that after an impact?

I did some research, turns out a Global Hawk has a 'scaled composite model 396' miniature; here's the Wikipedia stub on it:

Scaled Composites Model 396
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Scaled Composites Model 396 is a derivative of the Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk aircraft. The Model 396 will be an unmanned combat air vehicle, and thus will differ from the Global Hawk in carrying a weapons load underneath the fuselage. It will also be about half the size and cost, but will be aerodynamically identical. The Model 396 is competing for USAF's Hunter-Killer project, with projected operational ability by 2007. Series production would likely take place in a Northrop Grumman facility.
[edit] External links

* "New Concepts Have Emerged for USAF Unmanned Hunter-Killer Aircraft." Aviation Week & Space Technology. September 19, 2004.
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signalfire
post Mar 9 2011, 04:07 AM
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Oh, and just as an addendum, I've been scouring every dang one of these photographs for the last hour or two. One of the things I was looking for was any body parts, anything looking even vaguely like it could have been human tissue. I only found one such artifact in one of the earlier pictures; it may have been an arm but there was nothing like clothing, joint tissue or a hand or fingers to be conclusive. It could also have been a hunk of pink insulation. Any body part will look bluish/purple after this much trauma with red at the edges where it's still oxygenated.

I cannot believe that the emergency personnel would have been so cavalier walking all over the place near the blast zone if they saw obvious body parts on the ground...

Thanks to everyone for all the work put into assembling the photos. I have Joel Meyerowitz's photographic record of Ground Zero, "Aftermath"; he was the only photographer granted unimpeded access to Ground Zero starting just a few days after the attacks. I spent dozens of hours pouring over that, looking for that one special detail that everyone else had missed that would prove the OCT the big lie I was sure it was. Finally I realized, it wasn't what I WAS seeing. It was what I WASN'T seeing... there had to have been thousands of desks, chairs, computers, monitors, room dividers, toilets, metal water fountains in those two buildings. There was literally none in any of the debris, anywhere. Like the firefighter said, 'you don't see a chair, a desk, a phone; the only piece of a phone I saw was the size of a half a key pad...'

Had to be a demolition. A 'pancake' would have left squashed but identifiable debris. Same with the Pentagon. Where the hell are the seats and luggage? In flight magazines? Food carts, hundreds of cans of soda pop? Pillows, blankets, clothes, everything that the bottom of the plane would hold on a normal flight? You'd think at least a few of these objects would be blown clear...
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dMz
post Mar 9 2011, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (signalfire @ Mar 9 2011, 12:46 AM) *
Has anyone identified this:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/SP...reliefplmw9.jpg

I'm not a pilot or an aircraft mechanic, but it looks from the picture like that thing has a wooden keel! Is there ANYthing on a large jet that would look like that after an impact?


If they're thickly and well (like in aerospace epoxy or polyurethane paints and primers) painted, most materials will look nearly identical.

Fiberglass (and phenolic, too) resins can sometimes look quite similar to wood- especially with the 'darker' (but still NON-black) fiberglass reinforcement fabrics. Going back a little before my time, I think composites use in aircraft goes back at least to the 1960s from what I remember hearing the 'old timers' say and Encyclopaedia Brittanica tells us:

QUOTE
airplane
Use of composite materials


The use of composite materials, similarly assisted in both design and application by the use of computers, has grown from the occasional application for a nonstructural part (e.g., a baggage compartment door) to the construction of complete airframes. These materials have the additional advantage in military technology of having a low observable (stealth) quality to radar.

Some aircraft of composite materials began to appear in the late 1930s and ’40s; normally these were plastic-impregnated wood materials, the most famous (and largest) example of which is the Duramold construction of the eight-engine Hughes flying boat. A few production aircraft also used the Duramold construction materials and methods.

During the late 1940s, interest developed in fibreglass materials, essentially fabrics made up of glass fibres. By the 1960s, enough materials and techniques had been developed to make more extensive use possible. The term “composite” for this method of construction indicates the use of different materials that provide strengths, light weight, or other functional benefits when used in combination that they cannot provide when used separately. They usually consist of a fibre-reinforced resin matrix. The resin can be a vinyl ester, epoxy, or polyester, while the reinforcement might be any one of a variety of fibres, ranging from glass through carbon, boron, and a number of proprietary types.

To these basic elements, strength is sometimes added by the addition of a core material, making in effect a structural sandwich. A core can be made up of a number of plastic foams (polystyrene, polyurethane, or others), wood, honeycombs (multicellular structures) of paper, plastic, fabric or metal, and other materials.

The desired final shape, in terms of both external appearance and the internal structure required for adequate strength, of a component made of composite materials can be arrived at by a variety of means. The simplest is the laying up of fibreglass sheets, much as is done in building a canoe, impregnating the sheets with a resin, and letting the resin cure. More sophisticated techniques involve fashioning the material into specific shapes by elaborate machinery. Some techniques require the use of male or female molds or both, while others employ vacuum bags that allow the pressure of the atmosphere to press the parts into the desired shape.

The use of composite materials opened up whole new methods of construction and enabled engineers to create less expensive, lighter, and stronger parts of more streamlined shapes than had previously been feasible with wood or metal. Like the computer, the use of composites has spread rapidly throughout the industry and will be developed even further in the future.


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/...osite-materials

Moving on from composites, you will probably want to read this thread about that "Berkley?" part here:

Mystery Part At Pentagon Attack
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...=14744&st=0

OSS- there were a couple of things about all the "nomadic debris" you might want to read on the first 2 pages of that thread (related to this thread) too.

Also, if anyone is interested, there is more about aerospace [specialty] paints and primers at the following links:

http://hansair.com/Aerospace_coatings.htm

http://aerospacedefense.thomasnet.com/item...s-topcoats/1020

http://www2.sherwin-williams.com/aerospace/primers.asp

This post has been edited by dMole: Mar 9 2011, 07:39 AM
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Obwon
post Mar 9 2011, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Mar 8 2011, 10:06 PM) *
G'day KP!

I've been trying to gather images from around the same area and timeframe for each section of the lawn (I need more hi-res images but I'm workin on it) for before and after shots.

The one piece of "debris" in the entire southern section pops up then disappears within minutes. The helipad gradually gets cluttered but I've some good shots that clear the myth up about "scraps of aluminium".

The North contains the larger lettered debris but I'm still working on the timeframes and just where (the f***) they were originally before the FBI started pulling them out of thin air (has to be from behind the heliport AFAIK).

I'm thinking of doing a chronological set of stills in video form to gradually show "before and after". Just going to keep digging for a bit first (you know me..rip the arse clean out of it lol)

thumbsup.gif


Good work... It's rather exasperating to keep having to hear about plane parts in debates, knowing that none of them are confirmed to be from the planes cited. Worse yet, knowing that these parts weren't there 8 years ago, or they'd have been all over the news, as someone here suggested. Instead, at that earlier time, what we saw was Donald Rumsfeld standing on a rather pristine lawn, supposedly helping victims, at a time when he should have been commanding our response forces.

Never-the-less, it's still a good exercise to use parts presented, as if they tell us what likely happened to the mythological aircraft they supposedly came from. Because that creates a story that requires further "official" alterations. For example, the logo fragments on the lawn, are a very good indication (the planters didn't think of) that the tail section should be out there too. Once that explanation takes hold, I expect these logo pictures will disappear from other sites. laughing1.gif As other incriminating photos have.

Hey, maybe someone can do a video of these 'nomadic' plane parts? Have them dancing and whirling around the lawn set to music, preferably played/led by the NTSB/FBI marching bands? thumbdown.gif
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onesliceshort
post Mar 9 2011, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE (dMole)


Hi dMole!

Thanks for the link mate and good to see you back! thumbsup.gif

Yeah, 2 main points made there that I'd been thinking about.

1. Why wasn't this paraded on every government site regarding the Pentagon or by duhbunkers?

2. How could it have been deflected around 70 away in the opposite direction from the alleged "penetration", unscorched?

...and why does it appear in some shots and not in others.

@signalfire...

Where did you think you saw a body part??

Peace

OSS
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onesliceshort
post Mar 9 2011, 12:25 PM
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Now I know this whatever it is, doesn't appear to be the "mystery part", but these pre to post collapse images may show something weird. Note the piece in relation to the green and white signs within the fenced off generator area.



Middle image taken from this unsourced (news footage?).



I know the "mystery part" was allegedly on the southern area of the lawn but where exactly? Did they remove the lawn border fence to accomodate rescue workers/vehicles? I don't see it in the image.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj16/st...Mysterypart.jpg

Hmm...
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signalfire
post Mar 9 2011, 03:24 PM
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@signalfire...

Where did you think you saw a body part??

Peace

OSS
[/quote]

RE possible bodypart:

Geeze, it took me all morning to find it again. That'll teach me to take notes...

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/Still/2...D-02-03897.JPEG

Blow the picture up. Above the large airplane part, pretty much dead center, there's something that looks like a pink roll with yellow ends, approximately arm sized. There's neither clothing on it or identifiable end parts (shoulder tissue or hand); it could also be a leg piece or a piece of pink insulation. I presume this photo is pre-collapse, so any Pentagon insulation pieces would be few and far between. Do planes have pink insulation in them?

Nice 'action' photo of the Green Berets, though. :-/ Looking at these, I'm amazed at the amount of standing around and useless activity I see. The FBI had time, only an hour or two into this, to calmly pick up pieces of debris and put them into brown paper bags? Really? Without tagging them, putting them into individual evidence bags, or putting the human tissue into individual plastic bags???? Where the hell is the forensics?

Oh, and another question. In one of the first taken photos, there's a truck near the helipad building that has a lot of green 5 gallon barrel looking jugs or containers on the top of it. In the "FBI picks up stuff" photo, those green barrels are now unloaded and on the ground, looking like they're being used for something. So WTF are those and why were they, 1: on the truck in the first place, and 2: now unloaded and in an evidence-strewn area?
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onesliceshort
post Mar 11 2011, 10:00 AM
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Further confirmation that the "mystery plane part" was nowhere to be seen south of the lawn allegedly within a couple of minutes of the explosion:



And the smaller piece that keeps appearing and reappearing is not "debris" judging by the FBI line "searching" in this video, stepping around it and leaving it there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=941n61XoTAA...feature=related

(Note: Does anybody know when this was broadcast?)





Also found this postcollapse image of the same area:

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kawika
post Mar 12 2011, 11:20 AM
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THE CONSTRUCTION FENCE IS BLOWN AWAY FROM THE WALL.

If a plane went in there it would have grabbed the fence and dragged it inside the building. The wing would have clipped the two parked cars.

http://www.twf.org/Gallery/911f/Pentagon91...pact%20Zone.jpg

And what happened to the two long construction trailers that were right in the path?
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kawika
post Mar 12 2011, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 10 2011, 02:20 PM) *
THE CONSTRUCTION FENCE IS BLOWN AWAY FROM THE WALL.

If a plane went in there it would have grabbed the fence and dragged it inside the building. The wing would have clipped the two parked cars.

http://www.twf.org/Gallery/911f/Pentagon91...pact%20Zone.jpg

And what happened to the two long construction trailers that were right in the path?



THE TRAILER?? Might be what we see between the equipment dolly and the fireman w/hose. Looks like a trailer frame and wheel on fire.

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/Still/2...D-02-03896.JPEG

Also pretty good detail on the fence blown to the front of the white car.
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23investigator
post Mar 12 2011, 05:31 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 13 2011, 02:03 AM) *
THE TRAILER?? Might be what we see between the equipment dolly and the fireman w/hose. Looks like a trailer frame and wheel on fire.

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/Still/2...D-02-03896.JPEG

Also pretty good detail on the fence blown to the front of the white car.


Dear Kawika

It certainly looks like something -or bits of the thing- was heading North in a big hurry doesn't it.

I think I read one of the "stories" was that the construction 'trailers' -buildings- were moved away the day before the event.
It is one of the accounts given in a big list of witnesses, by the manager or supervisor of the work going on there.
Interesting they pulled down the fence in such a hurry isn't it.
It seems as though the firemen were more interested in doing things like that, than putting the fires out.
The 'generator burning for ages, the S/wagon next to the white car allowed to catch fire, the white car itself allowed to be burnt out when at first it was not seriously on fire.

Anything that would generate lots of smoke was allowed to keep burning.

Santa's little helpers strolling along with their pull down tools.

Too bad about the people trapped in the building, that could have been accessed from the front.

There are a lot of people who at the least should be held culpable for Man --and woman slaughter.

Regards

Robert

ps they would not want to come eyeball to eyeball with me I can assure you.
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onesliceshort
post Mar 12 2011, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 12 2011, 04:33 PM) *
THE TRAILER?? Might be what we see between the equipment dolly and the fireman w/hose. Looks like a trailer frame and wheel on fire.

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/Still/2...D-02-03896.JPEG

Also pretty good detail on the fence blown to the front of the white car.


Nice catch Kawika.

I'd never noticed the gurney before.



Here's another image by the same guy.

EDIT:

EXIF DATA

WILL MORRIS

"September 11, 2001 12:00:00AM (timezone not specified) - 11AM (??)



This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 22 2011, 11:15 PM
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kawika
post Mar 12 2011, 06:59 PM
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Anybody know the name of the photographer in white, far left?

PHOTOG

He'd be in a good position to capture the fine details.

This post has been edited by kawika: Mar 12 2011, 07:03 PM
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onesliceshort
post Mar 12 2011, 07:06 PM
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They say images speak louder than words...








http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/asce_en.htm
^^^Recommended reading..




^^^Remember ASCE claim the aircraft was "tilted"..







And...






rolleyes.gif
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onesliceshort
post Mar 12 2011, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 12 2011, 11:59 PM) *
Anybody know the name of the photographer in white, far left?

PHOTOG

He'd be in a good position to capture the fine details.


He may be this guy (Will Morris)..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo.../pentagon/2.htm
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onesliceshort
post Mar 12 2011, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE
They say images speak louder than words...


No they don't ... yahn.gif doh1.gif...
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onesliceshort
post Mar 12 2011, 10:04 PM
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Propane gas container from "gurney" image (bottom left):

http://i.imgur.com/9JLx0.jpg

Postcollapse. Notice the incline just before the facade.
Now imagine the ASCE "tilt" and the alleged first floor "penetration".

http://i.imgur.com/WRBEe.jpg

The "gurney" (immediate right of burnt out car)?

http://i.imgur.com/X8mYb.jpg

And this (immediate right of burnt out cars)?

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/Still/2...D-02-03905.JPEG

And the source of this pile of rusted aluminium, labelled as "aircraft debris"?



From here (left hand side - what was once wrongly described as an "engine")?

http://i.imgur.com/oI1Ji.jpg

And where were these pulled from?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...agon_rubble.jpg

It would also be interesting to compare the tyre rims on the gurney and some of those vehicles in the other pics to the alleged "757 wheels"...but it's kinda late here..


ETA: Editted for clarification.

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 13 2011, 09:44 AM
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kawika
post Mar 13 2011, 12:45 AM
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Oneslice, could we get you to put red boxes around your items. I don't see them readily. Thank you

I do see a NISSAN forklift truck layiing on its side, propane tank facing camera. With chain link fence bunched up around it. Where did this fork truck come from?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...agon_rubble.jpg
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onesliceshort
post Mar 13 2011, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE (kawika @ Mar 13 2011, 05:45 AM) *
Oneslice, could we get you to put red boxes around your items. I don't see them readily. Thank you

I do see a NISSAN forklift truck layiing on its side, propane tank facing camera. With chain link fence bunched up around it. Where did this fork truck come from?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...agon_rubble.jpg


Post editted for clarification.

Yeah, I don't see the forklift in any other images (as yet).

http://www.asia.ru/en/ProductInfo/1349744.html

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