IPBFacebook



POSTS MADE TO THIS FORUM ARE THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AUTHOR AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEWS OF PILOTS FOR 911 TRUTH
FOR OFFICIAL PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH STATEMENTS AND ANALYSIS, PLEASE VISIT PILOTSFOR911TRUTH.ORG


DIGITAL DOWNLOADS

WELCOME - PLEASE REGISTER OR LOG IN FOR FULL FORUM ACCESS ( Log In | Register )

26 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Wtc7 Demolition, Putting the pieces together

onesliceshort
post Nov 29 2012, 08:22 PM
Post #1



Group Icon

Group: Global Mod
Posts: 2,612
Joined: 30-January 09
Member No.: 4,095



QUOTE (elreb @ Nov 30 2012, 12:05 AM) *
I think that we have a substantial amount of data to start breaking things down and put a package together.

Functionally, NIST has provided a lot of useful information, yet were directed to provide inaccessible - reach less - unapproachable – unachievable conclusions.

The “you run with us or you run into us” attitude is a giveaway to self-serving interests!

The simple fact that only the WTC was harmed is a clue. What are the odds?

OSS or Kawika could start a new thread that is focused on the bottom line.

I say that because they both are sharp cookies.

KP50 will stand guard to prevent trolls or related pests.

It is my personal belief that “7WTC” will break the camel’s back.

No theory…no hypo this…no bull…just data…

Conclusions that agree with experience.


I'm all for it.

Have a look at this theory first.

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/the-ammo...-t87.html#p1140

Substitute ammonium perchlorate mentioned in the link with a sulfur based exotic chemical and it makes sense.

Easily "planted" without the need for the government loyalist "hundreds of operatives carting 100s of tons of explosives for months"

Residue that can be bullshitted away to being sourced by "building contents". If found.

No "loud bangs".

Can be blamed on fire. And be accepted by the deluded and lazy majority.

QUOTE
Ammonium perchlorate powder, probably containing manganese dioxide and other additives (e.g. nano-Al powder, HTPB, HMX, etc.), was mixed with binding agents (polysulfide and/or cement) and one or more of the five spray-on fire resistive (thermal insulation) materials used at the WTC. These materials are identified in NIST NCSTAR 1-6A as: (1) Blaze-shield Type D, (2) Blaze-shield Type DC/F, (3) Blaze-shield Type II, (4) Monokote MK-5, and (5) Vermiculite aggregate plaster.

In order to determine where and when these materials were applied to structural steel surfaces in the WTC complex we need to consider the history of “passive fire protection” practices employed by the New York Port Authority during and after the construction of the towers (and WTC 7), starting in 1970 and ending in 2001.

On April 13, 1970, New York City issued a ban on the use of all sprayed on thermal insulations containing asbestos, the notorious fibrous silicate mineral that was a major component of Blaze-shield Type D. The use of asbestos-containing insulation was discontinued at this time at the 38th floor of WTC 1. In February 1975, a fire occurred in WTC 1 that affected floors 9 to 19 and led to a review of the adequacy of the existing thermal insulation in the entire WTC. The need to upgrade the passive fire protection in the Twin Towers was finally addressed in 1995 when, after yet another study, it was decided to apply a 1½ inch thickness of an asbestos-free spray-on mineral fiber fire protection material to selected steel surfaces. Thus, between 1995 and 2001, thermal protection was upgraded specifically on 18 floors in WTC 1, including floors 92 to 100 and 102; and on 13 floors in WTC 2 including floors 77, 78, 88, 89, 92 and 97. (See NIST NCSTAR 1-6A page xxxvii).

How much thermal protection was used? A reasonable estimate would be a thickness of 2 cm over an effective area of 2500 m2 or 50 m3 per floor. If we assume the material had a density of 400 kg/m3 there would have been 20 tonnes of thermal protection per floor.

It should be noted that the specific selection of areas for insulation upgrading would have made on the basis of the need to apply fire protection material to areas that were known to be vulnerable to fire damage because of poor coverage of the original coating. However, in an "AP-conspiracy" theory, the sprayed-on fire protector was, in fact, an AP-based fire accelerant or pyrotechnic agent. Given the fact that upgrading of the passive fire protection of WTC 1 & 2 was an on-going project throughout the late 1990s, a deadly pyrotechnic coating could have been applied almost anywhere and at any time during this period. Building 7 could also have been "pre-conditioned" with accelerant coatings during the OEM diesel generator upgrades of 1999.

If we assume that the normal cement-based fire-resistant material was actually “spiked” with 25 wt.% of an AP-based pyrotechnic mixture, up to 5 tonnes of ammonium perchlorate could have been sprayed onto a designated floor. Furthermore, once applied to a particular floor, the coating would have remained undisturbed, unnoticed, and with no loss of potency, until it was triggered by the events of September 11th 2001.


It's a "theory" but there's evidence to support the basics of it. And it ticks the right boxes IMO.

Re: the "OEM diesel generator upgrades of 1999", wouldn't the fireproofing need to be upgraded too?

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Nov 29 2012, 08:22 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Nov 29 2012, 08:38 PM
Post #2





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



I am talking to Kawika as we speak.

He has new data...

Thanks for the new thread

Great title...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
onesliceshort
post Nov 29 2012, 10:12 PM
Post #3



Group Icon

Group: Global Mod
Posts: 2,612
Joined: 30-January 09
Member No.: 4,095



QUOTE (elreb @ Nov 30 2012, 01:38 AM) *
I am talking to Kawika as we speak.

He has new data...

Thanks for the new thread

Great title...


Good stuff thumbsup.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Nov 29 2012, 11:36 PM
Post #4





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



We can borrow from our other threads and put this puzzle together.

Forget theory…go to “Guess”…then compare the consequences to experience.

Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results!

If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed.

I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is often a step forward....

The three things that are most essential to achievement are common sense, hard work and stick-to-it-ness...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
onesliceshort
post Nov 30 2012, 11:58 AM
Post #5



Group Icon

Group: Global Mod
Posts: 2,612
Joined: 30-January 09
Member No.: 4,095



My 2cents on how part of the demolition was carried out.

QUOTE
http://science.howstuffworks.com/engineeri...g-implosion.htm

The basic idea of explosive demolition is quite simple: If you remove the support structure of a building at a certain point, the section of the building above that point will fall down on the part of the building below that point. If this upper section is heavy enough, it will collide with the lower part with sufficient force to cause significant damage. The explosives are just the trigger for the demolition. It's gravity that brings the building down.


The lower floor atriums:



Note that there was also a 2 floor mechanical space between Floors 5 and 6 to the east of the building. And that Column 79 and 2 of the trusses ran under it.



IMO the lobby and atriums were used to kick the legs out from underneath the building. Exactly what Jowenko was describing.

Full Jowenko interview:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10805945

No need to complicate matters when there were almost 6 floors vulnerable to provide the exact same effect as controlled demolition without the normal CD explosives.

Gift wrapped for those who first surveyed the building to see which sections of the structure they could manipulate.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Nov 30 2012, 12:26 PM
Post #6





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



My first guess would be “Hidden in Plain Sight”.

I must also agree with preplanning.

No one runs from a bunker that is not under attack.

Can you imagine telling General Patton to run from a German airplane?

We can only guess at what plan “A” was, yet it did not pan out.

Every building in the WTC complex was planned to be destroyed, while at the same time leaving the old historical buildings alone.

When it got down to brass tacks, plan “B” was to simply drop the structure and invent obscure answers.

NOTE: I’ll get back to the Ammonium perchlorate powder after I look at it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Nov 30 2012, 04:27 PM
Post #7





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



Ok, let’s see if I can come up with a condensed version of Christopher Bollyn.

100% of 911 events were preplanned for the expressed reason to keep the US in perpetual War and exposer to valuable land resources. Defense contractor are in hog heaven.

Military forces would be centrally located to assist both Israel and Saudi Arabia.

[Follow the money]

Saudi Arabia agrees to provide financial assistance and a dozen or so diversionary patsy’s.

Mossad agents agree to provide the real activity and classified exotic chemicals.

Next you have Mossad + CIA Cooperation = US Federal support.

Al-Mōsād and Al-Qaeda = 911; "The Institute" and “the Data Base”

For several know reasons, the entire WTC has to be destroyed, yet leaving all other historic buildings intact. This plan was worked out by the WTC players who had loyalty connections to Israel.

A more detailed examination of the insurance companies will expose their hold cards.

Some folks may not like it, however I feel a third plane was intended for 7WTC but failed to arrive.

It is my “Guess” that 7WTC was the center of operations

Several floor had under gone major remodeling including the 5th. No one would think anything unusual was going on. As stated, fireproofing mixes well with exotic chemicals.

Wasn’t the bunker completed in 1998? [Great timing]

A “New Pearl Harbor” June 1997 "Statement of Principles" and proceeds "from the belief that America should seek to preserve and extend its position of global leadership by maintaining the preeminence of U.S. military forces.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 3 2012, 11:29 PM
Post #8





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTER:

During major emergencies and special events, OEM activates the City's Emergency Operations Center (EOC). With space for more than 130 representatives from local, state, and federal agencies and private and non-profit entities, the EOC functions as a central clearinghouse for information coordination, resource requests, and decision making.

The Emergency Command Center was on the 23rd floor 7WTC.

At 9:03 am, the doors to the command post were locked…no one could get in.

At approximately 9:44 a.m., after the report of a “third” aircraft heading into the city and news that the Pentagon had been attacked, a Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of 7WTC.

For some odd reason, the fire suppression system had been deactivated…in spite of the fact that NYFD was using its standpipes.

It seems rather “Irresponsible” to draw conclusions without first reviewing the “Facts”.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 9 2012, 06:50 PM
Post #9





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



If you reread Shyam Sunder’s report slowly and completely then

Include the 3 steel analyst reports showing sulfur and Iron Oxide embedment then

Study the several dozen pictures of “Vaporized” steel then Add in eye-witness accounts

You get a “Man-made” disaster.

We even have 4 rolls of “A” drawings from Skidmore, Owings & Merrill dated 1986.

SOM received a gold LEED rating for its sustainable design components on 7WTC.

These guys also did the new 7 WTC, 1WTC and the Sears tower

"Even though Building 7 didn't get much attention in the media immediately, within the structural engineering community, it's considered to be much more important to understand," said William F. Baker, a partner in charge of structural engineering at the architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill.

"They say, `We know what happened at 1 and 2, but why did 7 come down?' "

Engineers and other experts have already uncovered evidence at the collapse site suggesting that some type of foul played a significant role in the building's demise, but they expect to spend months piecing together the picture of what remains a disturbing puzzle
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 24 2012, 10:57 PM
Post #10





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



The entire WTC complex had to be destroyed...it is just that simple.

This was accomplished. Party time.

The following insurance companies were liable to Silverstein's compensation demand:

Swiss Reinsurance Co. [lead insurer] [Warren Buffett invested $2.6 billion]

Chubb Corp.,

Lloyd's of London,

Employers Insurance of Wausau

XL Capital Ltd.

St. Paul Travelers,

Industrial Risk Insurers [a former General Electric Co]

Allianz SE

Zurich American Insurance Co.

Royal Sun Alliance Insurance Group's Royal Indemnity Co

Note:

Warren Buffet was at Offutt Air Force Base on 911 entertaining quite a few VIP's from WTC.

You know…the same place where Bush 43 landed that day.

Oh, and Bush 41 was drinking champagne with the Saudi Arabians…

Here is an example of “Meat on the Bone”

The Oracle of Omaha is unlikely to have predicted this. Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffett's holding company, said that it would pour an extra $2.6 billion into Swiss Re to prop up the company's capital base after the reinsurer posted an $861.3 million loss .


Remember…Swiss RE was the lead company to pay for the 911 WTC.


For the record, Berkshire owns 13% of American Express. American Express is connected to Solomon Brother thru Citigroup.

5 largest reinsurance companies

1. Munich Reinsurance Company—$31,280 [Berkshire owns 10.5%]

2. Swiss Reinsurance Company Limited—24,756 [Berkshire investment]

3. Hannover Rueckversicherung AG—15,147

4. Berkshire Hathaway Inc. —14,374

5. Lloyd’s—12,977

Now…when US corporations need money, they get TARP funds. Therefore thru a maze of mind-blistering banking moves…in the end…the American tax payer gets the bill.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 24 2012, 11:00 PM
Post #11





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



A section of an A36 wide flange beam retrieved from the collapsed World Trade Center Building 7 was examined to determine changes in the steel microstructure as a result of the terrorist attack on September 11, 2001.

This building was not one of the original buildings attacked but it indirectly suffered severe damage and eventually collapsed.

While the exact location of this beam could not be determined, the unexpected erosion of the steel found in this beam warranted a study of microstructural changes that occurred in this steel.

Examination of other sections in this beam is underway.

ANALYSIS

Rapid deterioration of the steel was a result of heating with oxidation in combination with intergranular melting due to the presence of sulfur.

The formation of the eutectic mixture of iron oxide and iron sulfide lowers the temperature at which liquid can form in this steel.

This strongly suggests that the temperatures in this region of the steel beam approached ~1,000ºC, forming the eutectic liquid by a process similar to making a “blacksmith’s weld” in a hand forge.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 24 2012, 11:01 PM
Post #12





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



June 3, 1997 “Statement of Principles”

American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge.

We are living off the capital -- both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

We need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global Responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• We need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• We need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• We need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.


Note: To some degree, Building 7 may have been the original target…


"All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran -- the number three guy in that office.

"We lost our network, we lost all our computers, we lost all the equipment that we use as Secret Service Agents.”

“Everything from machine guns to our shotguns to our electronic equipment that we use."

“A lot of cases had to be closed as a result of losing that building.”
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 25 2012, 12:35 AM
Post #13





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



Patsy UA 93 was to leave around 08:01 but was delayed until 08:42.

Newark International Airport is about 9 miles from WTC.

Patsy AA 11 took off around 07:59 made it to WTC by 08:46.

Logan is 190 miles from WTC

This is what caused things to go wrong.

I’m still guessing that 7WTC was the original [first] target.

The timing was just a little off…
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ricochet
post Dec 25 2012, 08:15 AM
Post #14





Group: Active Forum Pilot
Posts: 746
Joined: 25-April 08
From: Canada
Member No.: 3,225



If WTC 7 fell straight down how could it damage the top of the Fiterman building across the street?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SanderO
post Dec 25 2012, 10:15 AM
Post #15





Group: Troll
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 23-December 09
From: NYC
Member No.: 4,814



What does "fell straight down" mean? And who said it?

Wasn't something similar said about the twin towers? Their debris was scattered out to 400+ feet from each tower.

Language is not precise... and it's hard to know what people mean by what they say. And then when others repeat something they often add or alter the language and the meaning.

It's pretty clear that researchers working with limited resources are limited in what they can know with 100% certainty/accuracy.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 25 2012, 12:09 PM
Post #16





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



QUOTE (Ricochet @ Dec 25 2012, 02:15 AM) *
If WTC 7 fell straight down how could it damage the top of the Fiterman building across the street?

Fiterman Hall was a 15-story building at 30 West Broadway (also called 81 Barclay Street).

Actually, Bldg 7 was said to have fallen into its own footprint.

In reality it rotated and fell North West.

The West Broadway subway tunnel on the South East corner was heavily damaged.

Think about that…the building fell away from the subway.

Note in the picture that there was lots of water and meat on the Bone.

The picture also shows that the building did not fall on West Broadway.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kawika
post Dec 25 2012, 05:32 PM
Post #17





Group: Active Forum Pilot
Posts: 475
Joined: 16-August 07
From: Upstate NY/VT border
Member No.: 1,719



QUOTE (elreb @ Dec 23 2012, 02:09 PM) *
Fiterman Hall was a 15-story building at 30 West Broadway (also called 81 Barclay Street).

Actually, Bldg 7 was said to have fallen into its own footprint.

In reality it rotated and fell North West.

The West Broadway subway tunnel on the South East corner was heavily damaged.

Think about that…the building fell away from the subway.

Note in the picture that there was lots of water and meat on the Bone.


To be absolutely clear, just the east face of WTC7 rotated and fell NW. If you look closely in the videos you can see it falling last. It separated from the north and south walls and clipped the Fiterman Bldg.

The west wall ended up on top of the pile, due east, no rotation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 25 2012, 05:47 PM
Post #18





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



Kawika is one of the best examples of a “Team player”.

He always adds positive information.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 25 2012, 09:36 PM
Post #19





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



More data: Please note that the data comes from Elreb and the Team...

South looking north...

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elreb
post Dec 26 2012, 07:11 PM
Post #20





Group: Extreme Forum Pilot
Posts: 2,589
Joined: 31-December 07
From: Maui
Member No.: 2,617



“What little damage that the Verizon building received”…came from the demolition of 7WTC.

The picture indicates one phase of destruction was from floors 5 to 7.

I would “Guess” that demolition came from 3 levels with one final kicker at the end.

You know…the “Pull. The building had been weakened by 30% early in the morning.

Now that I have the prints, I can put together a good “guess” of progression of events.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

26 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
3 User(s) are reading this topic (3 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 




RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st August 2019 - 11:34 PM