Wtc7 Southwestern Area, Source of smoke? Options

[elreb]

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OSS

It gets better…

3000 years of hidden truth will soon be exposed.

The common “Mind” will never understand...

Not now or ever...

[onesliceshort]

2,050,000+ views

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEuJimaumW4

The "mystery smoke" mentioned in the video isn't a mystery any more IMO.

Kudos to Elreb and Kawika (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[elreb]

Whether I get them or not, I ordered 12 files from NIST.

They claim that the files have to clear security or be worthless...to release the information.

Vote for Ron Paul and Jessie Ventura! [2016]

[Uneeque]

Wtc 7 deserved(s) a lot more attention and I know nyccan did a heck of a job bringing awareness to it all but for some reason not enough people care.

[onesliceshort]

Wtc 7 deserved(s) a lot more attention and I know nyccan did a heck of a job bringing awareness to it all but for some reason not enough people care.

If the general public took (and still take) what the banks and corporations have done lying down, I don't know...

I'd always thought that if NIST claimed that "office fires" brought down Building 7, one approach should have been for architects to hold their feet to the fire and demand that all steel structured buildings be torn down and rebuilt. 

I know that there are a couple of forum members here working hard in the background but yeah, it seems like the research and nailing down of NIST's lies stopped in 2008.

I'm a relative noob to Building 7 but even I know that there are still more avenues of investigation that are gathering dust.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22085

Part One--Shear Ignorance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGe0E9cjUbI
 
Part Two-- Expanding Lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvRKZO5o_dA
 
Part Three-- Tangled Webs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zsp0UcgMzs


An experiment to see if eutectic steel as found in the WTC7 rubble (and ignored by NIST) can be caused by natural events:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQDFV1HINw

Just have to keep spreading the word.

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Oct 8 2012, 05:39 PM

[Uneeque]

The official NIST conclusion was basically a new theory--that fire induced heat albeit a much lower temperature than previously calculated was responsible. It took them seven years to come up with that. I'm guessing the first 6 years, 11 months, and 3.5 weeks were spent laughing that they could sell that BS.

Thanks for the links.

[elreb]

For the non-believers like Piers Morgan…it is a sin to NOT believe the official story or have an independent investigation of 7WTC.

The building was so over built to begin with…however it just simply fell down!

It is my understanding that a blind homeless man was paid $20 to pour 5 gallons of diesel fuel on the structure.

The rest is history...

[Uneeque]

For the non-believers like Piers Morgan…it is a sin to NOT believe the official story or have an independent investigation of 7WTC.

The building was so over built to begin with…however it just simply fell down!

It is my understanding that a blind homeless man was paid $20 to pour 5 gallons of diesel fuel on the structure.

The rest is history...

At this point it is harder for some to question the OCT knowing how many lives have been lost in the aftermath, which is much higher than 9/11.

I look at it like this: when the President can openly admit we engage in international kidnapping, and the public doesn't so much as yawn, wow. How can the public be so lost? It is just bizarre.

[elreb]

Functionally, the “Red-Blood-o-Cans” and the “Dumb-o-Crats”…enjoy the bliss of ignorance.

Theoretically, patriots are not required to trust the government and have a duty to support equality to all their brothers, sisters and fellow citizens.

America needs a 3, 4, 5 party system like several other countries.

Currently, billion dollar corporations control the world.

The “Database” creates confrontation, which in turn provided an excuse for War.

[onesliceshort]

Go in to any government loyalist site and hit them up the face with any non 9/11 related proof that the world they defend is a cesspool of lies controlled by psychopaths and see them overload. Their script is not so flexible. It's like throwing a match into their twisted hillbilly barndance.

I think when approaching those in "real life" who are "on the fence" or blissfully unaware of 9/11, they should be first made aware of other atrocities/false flags that have been proven or admitted.

The truth of 9/11 has been so polluted by the mainstream "nutter" label that there's an automatic wall thrown up to any information shown.

Theoretically, patriots are not required to trust the government and have a duty to support equality to all their brothers, sisters and fellow citizens.

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[SanderO]

Why do you say... or what is the basis to say it was over built? All structures have reserve strength in their design and WTC 7 would be no exception. Developers/owners are notoriously stingy and throwing money into things like over building the structure is not something you expect to see. Weight is money in buildings.. high rise building especially.

Since we observed a 2.25 sec period of decent of about 100'... there was no structure to resist that descent... but once the descending part of the building met resistance of bedrock, for example.. it was crushed from bottom up and the frame... whatever was left of it simply came apart at the joints/seams/splices/connections.

Because of the very unique structural design for the first 7 floors a progressive failure propagating rather quickly through that structure seems to fit the observed collapse. There are no other high rise building which are built with their first 7 floors of structure resembling WTC7... It was a really odd duck. If you want to understand how it came down as it did.. look down there.

[onesliceshort]

If you want to understand how it came down as it did.. look down there.

Have you been reading this thread? There's a lot of work that has gone on in trying to find out what was going on "down there". And what the lower floors structure comprised of.

I know for a fact that there were no fires "down there" according to visual and witness evidence.

So please. Fill us in.

[elreb]

So please. Fill us in.

Same dog…different day

Both 7WTC and Con-Ed alarm reports show no fires

They did record the second crash however!

For some odd reason, the fire support system had been disconnected some time before 9-11.

[SanderO]

OSS... you don't know for a fact that there were no fires... not having photos of them is not evidence that there were no fires.

The building was pretty much evacuated shortly after 9 am... and so there were very few witness after that who may have had access to and examined the mech floors, the sub station and so on. As Con Ed is clearly not wanting to admit to any sort of wrong doing, I would not rely too much on what they report from the day.

The prevailing wind would likely ventilate inward from the north side and show little to no smoke or fires from the north were observers were located. I believe the lower floors were also obscured by buildings north of the tower.

The 100' of free fall strongly suggests failures over 8 floors and the most likely 8 floors is 1-7 which had about half the columns of above which meant that the other half were supported mid span on trusses which were several stories tall and ended at the 8th floor. The 5th floor was probably *hung* from those trusses as well.

These floors are largely shrouded in mystery and there is an appalling lack of evidence about what did or didn't happened down there. Jennings and Hess offered some testimony that there were explosions somewhere on those mech floors or below. That's a start.

[onesliceshort]

Same dog…different day

Both 7WTC and Con-Ed alarm reports show no fires

They did record the second crash however!

For some odd reason, the fire support system had been disconnected some time before 9-11.

What he said SanderO.

For the record (and I think it's been discussed here elsewhere), I haven't ruled out the "dirty work" being carried out on the lower floors and the lower atrium. Kick the legs out from underneath it so to speak.

The eutectic mix uncovered points to a man-made "kick".

What there is no proof of are the raging fires on the lower floors required to make your hypothesis even a remote possibility.

I'm not going over old ground with you again. If the next post contains any proof whatsoever, I'll look at it.

[elreb]

Dream on OSS,

“SanderO” is a broken record that provides nothing!

We have files, pictures, reports, drawings, GPS and witnesses…

Anyone who is reading this, please omit and disregard this fake person [SanderO]

[SanderO]

Who said raging fires?

The nature of a truss structure is that it is made from multiple members.. top chord and diagonals and rigid connections. A truss can fail from one connection failing or one member failing and the entire truss fails. A span of the Mianus River bridge came down when one pin failed... and the bridge over I95 experience a similar catastrophic failure from a member or connection failing.

The take away is that one wouldn't need huge raging fires to take out a truss... but local concentrated *attack* of one member or one connection.

I proposed a TTF theory and I still believe this is what happened. I can't say what the actual mechanism was as there is no evidence on way or the other of how those failures were triggered. I speculated that the heat was from diesel fueled (or other oil or natural gas) fires. These accelerants might have or likely were present. We don't know more than that and so the trigger of TTF is speculative. It could be placed devices. But was there eutectic attacks/burning of the truss members or was it some other steel in the towers?

Elreb...your uncalled for insults only reflect on you. I am trying as hard as anyone to understand what happened and my intentions are the same. I don't know why you resort to ad homs but it doesn't bolster your own position.

[elreb]

Boo hoo,

You actually provide nothing…

I did not reflect an insult and you do not understand anything more than “Horse Crap”.

I do not have a position. I do not make up stories like you do.

Not one single person on this forum backs you up! Zero

[SanderO]

Understanding is not a popularity contest. I am a licensed practicing architect for over 30 years. My understanding/theory is informed by the movement of the buildings coming down and my knowledge of their structure. I have offered a mechanism to explain the collapse and stated numerous times we need to get more evidence about the event to confirm what actually happened.

I don't see any other theory which matches movement to mechanism. Most treat it like a black box called CD... That doesn't explain much. I don't think here are any structural engineers on this site either. Perhaps I am wrong. When I was working with AE911T there were almost no volunteers who had any technical background related to buildings and construction, yet they were all convinced they knew what happened.

Unfortunately, for what it's worth, the events were complex technical events to understand and beyond the grasp of the average person who tends to see the world in concepts they can easily grasp. The investigation in the the Challenger disaster was an example of applying scientific approach and technical understanding to what looked like a simple explosion (explosive demolition).

Insulting others is not impressive... nor useful.

[onesliceshort]

I don't see any other theory which matches movement to mechanism. Most treat it like a black box called CD.

You repeatedly say that if the trusses were heated, the building could come down.

If it's put to you that exotic chemicals were used in the same areas, you deny it or purposely ignore it even though there was a sample of eutectic mix found (in all likelihood a small sample of what has been withheld and carted off)

You claim that fires (not even raging fires, just "fires") could have been responsible for the steel expansion and pull out the "I'm an architect, don't question my authority" card, even though you're contradicting the physics of expansion re heat and time necessary to cause this expansion.

Just two posts after me agreeing that the legs could have been kicked out from underneath the building, using the atrium spacing in the same way that CD blows out the lower floors, you revert to your tactics in J.REF fashion, of painting all posters here as claiming that we're talking about high explosives on each floor.

Your whole argument revolves around fires on the lower floors causing the collapse. There were none. I can state that as a fact because I've looked. I've posted images from throughout the day (thanks to elreb and kawika). There's witness testimony denying these fires.

You have a theory based on wilful denial and lazy, arrogant claims.

That's not an insult by the way. It's a fact.