'zerozero' From Kitco Forums Make An Introduction. Options

[zerozero]

Well, I'm not really one to crash parties or rain on people's parades, but here I am, basically on a dare from the Kitco forums.

I promised I would sign up and debate the "experts" on 911.

You guys have been at this for years so don't expect me to chime in on every topic right away. I'm here for fun and in my free time.

My qualifications are listed below. I'm not too motivated to offer much personal information but I'll respond to PMs privately as long as they're professional and respectful.

I am here as a professional and I recognize the other members are professionals too, so that will always be respected. But I'm naturally skeptical of MOST conspiracy theories. I say MOST because I think this is where part of the problem comes from. I do believe there is a conspiracy to lie and cover up the gross negligence and malfeasance of the Bush admin. I'm HUGELY critical of the Bush admin and I believe first they dropped the ball, then lied about it, then exploited it for everything it was worth to justify an illegal war.

So don't badger me about defending the govt or worse, accusing me of being a govt agent posing as an airline pilot, because I'm not.

I've been in aviation since I was 17 years old when I first learned to fly. I'm now 42 and fly all over the world in one of the most beautiful airplanes ever made.

Thanks for indulging me. I expect to be banned within a couple weeks.
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[rob balsamo]

Welcome to the forum zerozero.

First please read around as Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory nor point blame at this point in time. However there is a growing mountain of conflicting data being provided by govt agencies which doesnt support their theory and they refuse to comment.

Also keep in mind the white text on the top of the forum.

You may want to first become familiar with our main site and read through some of the articles and analysis.

There is over 4 years of research on this forum and our main site, and yes, we do ban trolls who are unfamiliar with the data and information analyzed and paint with a broad brush while running in here like a bull in a china shop.

You can also check out our growing list of Core members and their quals/experience here...

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core

Perhaps you may even know some of them?

Again, welcome.

[zerozero]

I'm pretty familiar with the site, having been referred here numerous times in past discussions.

I'm also very familiar with all of the various theories.

And I'm hardly like a bull in a china shop. Like I said, I'm here in my free time.

And I've looked over the member list. I don't recognize any names there.

In fact, I don't know one aviation professional who subscribes to any 911 conspiracy theory.

But I'm hardly a troll. I'm here to speak MY TRUTH, quietly and *confidently*.

This post has been edited by zerozero: Feb 25 2011, 04:01 PM

[rob balsamo]

I'm pretty familiar with the site, having been referred here numerous times in past discussions.

I'm also very familiar with all of the various theories.

And I'm hardly like a bull in a china shop. Like I said, I'm here in my free time.

And I've looked over the member list. I don't recognize any names there.

In fact, I don't know one aviation professional who subscribes to any 911 conspiracy theory.

But I'm hardly a troll. I'm here to speak MY TRUTH, quietly and *confidently*.

Once again zerozero, Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. Please read the top of our home page and pay particular attention to the underlined sentence.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org

We have analyzed data and information, much of which was provided by the NTSB, it doesn't support the 9/11 Commission's findings or theories.

As for a 'Conspiracy Theory". You may want to become familiar with such a definition. A Conspiracy is two or more people acting together, A theory is something which hasnt been proven.

Based on data, precedent, numerous verified experts and a blatant lack of evidence, it has not been proven (and in many instances, fatally contradicts) that 19 "hijackers" took over aircraft, with zero time in type, flew them at over 130-150 knots over Vmo, pulled G's, and maintained control and stability to crash them into buildings.

So, the only "Conspiracy theory" is that being offered by the 9/11 Commission, of which, even the Commission admits they were lied to and set up to fail.

What you will find on our site are facts, data and analysis. Much of which conflicts with the 9/11 Commission's Conspiracy Theory.

You may also want to check out this site as well.

http://patriotsquestion911.com

220+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
1,400+ Engineers and Architects
250+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
400+ Professors Question 9/11
300+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals
400+ Medical Professionals

Now you know lots of people who question 9/11. And the list is growing.

By the way... I received your application from our join form to join our organization but you didn't provide a name, I'm guessing you don't want to be listed as a Core Member since you cannot be verified?

[zerozero]

Right, I mistakenly filled out that form first thinking that was how I would access the forums.

No I don't want want to be listed as a core member and no I don't want to provide my full identity.

Basically, you know, the "fine print" speech is all well and good but let's be honest about what's being advanced at this website. There's a lot of very misleading information being disseminated and being passed off as "research" to some very gullible people.

But as I said right off the bat, I'm here in my free time and it would be impossible for me to make a response to each and every discussion that's come up in the last four years. So let's just consider this an appetizer.

I'm out of time for the afternoon.

But before I go, I wonder if you could provide (a link?) your background, credentials, etc. Just so I know what segment of the industry you work in.

Best regards.

[rob balsamo]

But before I go, I wonder if you could provide (a link?) your background, credentials, etc. Just so I know what segment of the industry you work in.

Best regards.

I already did, twice above. You claimed to have already visited the link.

Here it is again.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core

I'm at the top of the list. Keep in mind I havent updated my quals since 2006 as some people have expressed they wish to harass employers, as did the Nazi's of those who questioned their govt.

You can also see my ugly mug here... along with many other pilots.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots

The above people are the ones you call "gullible".

[zerozero]

Excellent thanks for the links.

You seem a little defensive.

Don't worry. I won't eat you alive (today).

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[rob balsamo]

Excellent thanks for the links.

You seem a little defensive.

Don't worry. I won't eat you alive (today).

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You seem to be a bit overly confident considering you cant find basic information.

I like being under-estimated. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[zerozero]

I always like to have the junior guys fetch my coffee.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[rob balsamo]

I always like to have the junior guys fetch my coffee.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And he claims he is not a troll. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Careful, you are venturing into troll territory.

Anytime you wish to put some substance behind your claims of our "Conspiracy Theories" and "misleading statements", feel free. Be sure to quote and source.

[FM258]

Excellent thanks for the links.

You seem a little defensive.

Don't worry. I won't eat you alive (today).

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The very first lamb going to the slaughterhouse was confident too.

Good luck pilot, you are going to need it.

[rob balsamo]

The very first lamb going to the slaughterhouse was confident too.

Good luck pilot, you are going to need it.

The guy claims he isnt a troll and "respects" other pilots, has not provided one shred of evidence to source his claims, is unable to find basic information after already given a link and claiming to have already viewed the list.... and the only thing he has to offer is....

I always like to have the junior guys fetch my coffee.

Wow, just.. .wow.

Hey zerozero, if you really are a pilot, do you find a lot of guys calling in sick or trading trips when they see you on their schedule?

[zerozero]

Oh come on. Where's your sense of humor? These are just ice breakers; something to loosen ourselves up with. We'll take the gloves off later. I haven't even dived into the real meaty part of the forum yet. Let's just get to know each other first and then we'll get down to the brass tacks.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Whaddya wanna know about me that I didn't list down below?

[mrmitosis]

Don't worry. I won't eat you alive (today).

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

...said the bunny rabbit to the saber-tooth tiger.

Referring to the aviation professionals on this forum as "experts" (with an emphasis on the inverted commas), characterising the information presented here as "misleading", and then patronising those who subscribe to it as "gullible" isn't the most cordial way to introduce one's self.

As the least qualified member of P4T, even I can make that observation.

It strikes me as curious that someone who is so cocky about debunking the meticulous research done by P4T expects to accomplish this single-handedly and in their spare time. Somehow, I don't expect history will be written that way. Still, I will personally sleep more peacefully at night if someone can demonstrate (in a way that no-one else seems to be able) that arabs living in caves pose the most serious global terrorist threat.

And as far as forum etiquette is concerned, it normally pays to click the links provided by those with whom you are engaging. If not for the sake of common courtesy, then at least in the interests of avoiding making yourself look foolish. For example, even in the absence of a link directing you to the Core Members list, it should be patently obvious to anyone who claims to be familiar with this site that Rob is its co-founder and an experienced pilot. It's like wandering into the Playboy Mansion and saying "Who owns this place again?"

Maybe it's just me.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[zerozero]

Yeah, except those Arabs who flew those planes to their targets were not cave dwellers.

Some were engineers; most were educated. Hardly cavemen.

This is a good example of the misleading information coming out of this movement.

[rob balsamo]

Yeah, except those Arabs who flew those planes to their targets were not cave dwellers.

Some were engineers; most were educated. Hardly cavemen.

This is a good example of the misleading information coming out of this movement.

How many have flown an aircraft 130-150 knots over Vmo, maintained control, remained stable, pulled G's, while rolling on G's, without shedding one part, when even their "most experienced" couldnt control a 172 at 65 knots....?

Are ya familiar with a V-G diagram? Boeing Type Certificate Data Sheets?


Please let us know when you find one aircraft which has been positively identified to exceed it's Barber pole by such excessive speeds at any altitude, or any evidence for any of your claims for that matter.

If you're looking for a social network, Facebook is thataway... ~~~~`>

Dont waste our time, nor bandwidth. It's known as trolling.

Be sure your next post contains some evidence or source for your ad hom claims against this organization. Dont worry about bringing me the coffee, i already have a cup.

[mrmitosis]

Yeah, except those Arabs who flew those planes to their targets were not cave dwellers.

Some were engineers; most were educated. Hardly cavemen.

This is a good example of the misleading information coming out of this movement.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

"Arabs living in caves" was just an exaggeration - I think I have an adequate understanding of the supposed hijacker profiles. But thanks for correcting me * on that relatively trivial detail, and congratulations for so transparently avoiding the thrust of my post *.

You're off to a "flying" start * (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) * I'd say you're chances of contributing anything substantial here are next to zero, zerozero.

(* denotes more sarcasm)

[zerozero]

Good job.

I appreciate quality wit and repartee. Something most Truthers lack.

At any rate, the point remains: It's often said the attacks could never have been pulled off due to the lack of ability of the Arab hijackers. But I disagree.

Boeing builds superior aircraft. Very easy to handle in all regimes. And it was a beautiful clear day with light winds.

So simple even a caveman could do it.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[rob balsamo]

Good job.

I appreciate quality wit and repartee. Something most Truthers lack.

At any rate, the point remains: It's often said the attacks could never have been pulled off due to the lack of ability of the Arab hijackers. But I disagree.

Boeing builds superior aircraft. Very easy to handle in all regimes. And it was a beautiful clear day with light winds.

So simple even a caveman could do it.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yet you still refuse to provide any evidence for your attacks on this organization.

Why is that?

Also, if Boeing build such "supperior" planes, why did one of their 767's suffer in flight structural failure 5 knots above Vd? Just as they were designed and the reason for such limitations....

Do you know why manufacturers set airspeed limitations for Aircraft? Do you know what Vd is?

And no Mr Skygod, it's not some STD in this case.

Let us know when you get some evidence for your claims, so far, you fail.

Normally someone like you would be gone already for your attacks while refusing to provide source. You are a troll zerozero.

But i'll keep you around for a little longer as it's fun to have a toy to bat around every once in awhile.

[zerozero]

How many have flown an aircraft 130-150 knots over Vmo, maintained control, remained stable, pulled G's, while rolling on G's, without shedding one part, when even their "most experienced" couldnt control a 172 at 65 knots....?

Are ya familiar with a V-G diagram? Boeing Type Certificate Data Sheets?


Please let us know when you find one aircraft which has been positively identified to exceed it's Barber pole by such excessive speeds at any altitude, or any evidence for any of your claims for that matter.

If you're looking for a social network, Facebook is thataway... ~~~~`>

Dont waste our time, nor bandwidth. It's known as trolling.

Be sure your next post contains some evidence or source for your ad hom claims against this organization. Dont worry about bringing me the coffee, i already have a cup.

So touchy Rob.

You know, let's assume for one second that the aircraft did exceed Vmo by whatever figure you prefer. Who cares? What difference does it make? They never intended to use those airplanes for the ride back to Afghanistan. As you're quite familiar with the V-G diagram you'll know that aircraft are OVERBUILT by certain margins just in order to survive an overspeed. That's called MARGIN. Would the airframe get bent and twisted and suffer structural compromise? SURE. You bet! That's why WE as professionals don't operate jet aircraft like that. But guess what? These guys were TERRORISTS. They don't care about book limitations. They were literally hell bent on destruction.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

I owe you a cuppa Joe for my little jab. Maybe one day in the terminal. Where's your base?