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Abovetopsecret Shuts Down 911 Forum - Blames P4t, split from "Suspected Govt Agent..." thread

rob balsamo
post Jan 9 2014, 11:33 AM
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So it appears the ATS 9/11 Forum is back open. Most of it is dead... but recently I have been receiving a few emails/questions from some people debating the reported excessive speeds at ATS (and doing it pretty successfully I might add... for laymen). The thread apparently went viral on their forum and ended up on their front page. The staff (including the owner, Bill, aka "SkepticOverlord", aka "TheSkepticGuy" on this forum) came out of the woodwork to trash the thread and gang up on the OP. I read through some of the thread and, first, I gotta say.. wow.. .that site is a mess. I had to close perhaps 3 or 4 pop-up ad's just to get the freakin page to load, then when it loaded, I was bombarded with tons of animated ad's slowing the browser down. And this was on a relatively fast pc... core i3, 4gb ram... etc.... If you decide to visit ATS, be sure to clear your cookies and perhaps run a scan afterward, that site is loaded with spyware and malware.

Anyway, Bill and his cohorts get nearly everything wrong and attack the OP and other posters who source the NTSB, ERAU, etc.... never once conceding a point.

So I send an email to Bill challenging him to debate real pilots instead of bullying laymen on a forum in which he controls the debate... instead of Bill accepting or declining the challenge, he goes crying to all his members at his forum...

Members who wish to participate in subjects such as this should be aware of recent developments.

Apparently because of my contributions in this thread, Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder of "Pilots for 911 Truth," has been sending me taunting emails with vulgarities, lies, and has even gone so far as to monitor when/if I visit their website, in order to send more taunting emails to me.

This is the unfortunate tactic of aggressive/insulting indignation for anyone who dare disagree with any portion of their stated platform. It's just more of the detestable techniques introduced into the "9/11 Truth" modus operandi by Nico Haupt more than ten years ago.

A couple years ago, we were forced to place a hiatus on new threads and posts to the 9/11 forum because of extreme incivility from various people who claimed to be from a collection of "9/11 Truth" groups (including pilots). You must ask yourself about the ethics and sincerity of such groups whose default methodology is that of insults and rage directed toward those who simply disagree… and the complete lack of professionalism exhibited by the sending of taunting emails to those who should be seen as a potentially cooperative and sympathetic partner. - Bill, aka "SkepticOverlord" aka "TheSkepticGuy"


Wow, what a drama queen. laughing1.gif

Here are the emails I sent to Bill (with Bill in cc on the first, addressee name redacted) -

Hi xxxxxx,
(with Bill in cc)
I took a stroll over to the ATS forum today. I see they are all jumping on you en masse. Why am I not surprised.

Bill (the CEO of ATS) has had a stick up his ass when he last shut down his own 9/11 Forum, because he thought members of P4T were "trolling", yet, we only had maybe 3 or 4 threads relating to P4T analysis (out of 50), on the front page of their 9/11 Forum at the time. Their mods can't handle this and instead shut down their whole 9/11 Forum?

See more here....
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10806087


Bill has a specific hatred for P4T because it is clear he cannot debate the facts and data as you have seen.

Bill and his "team" have banned every single representative from P4T, from his forum.. and since you argue the topic so well.. provide sources from the NTSB... i wouldnt be surprised you may get banned next. Bill, in this regard, is his own worst enemy.


Anytime you want to actually debate the information with actual pilots, we welcome the opportunity, Bill. But clearly you prefer to control the "debate".

I especially like how he claims you are getting information from "fringe" websites when you source the NTSB, ERAU.. etc.... What exactly does Bill think his website is?

The guy is a joke...

By the way Bill... you may want to cut back on all the ad's for guest readers... Wow.. your site is a mess...you're looking desperate.

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


...and then when I saw him browsing our forum from the member list which anyone can see on the bottom...

Hi Bill,
(with P4T members in BCC)

I see you are browsing our forum at this time with your registered screename "TheSketpicGuy".

Why not engage? Don't want to debate actual pilots? Would rather have your mods jump on a layman who understands aerodynamics and reads the NTSB reports better than you or any one of your staff?

Have you yet figured out your China Air 006 and TWA 841 comparisons actually support what we have been saying? And completely destroy your theories?

C'mon Bill... if you are so confident.. why not debate real pilots? Why do you call on all your mods to gang up on a layman?
Yeah.. we know Bill....lol

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


I guess Bill thinks "stick up his ass" is too vulgar.. oh the horror! (and irony...) rolleyes.gif

Bill, again, anytime you wish to debate the topic with real pilots, your account is active here (since you have banned virtually every rep from P4T at your forum). Then again, I don't blame you for evading such a challenge, since it is clear laymen are able to destroy your arguments decisively and rather easily with actual sources from the NTSB, ERAU, Boeing.. .etc.


For those unfamiliar and who haven't read from the beginning of this thread. Bill shut down his whole 9/11 forum a few years back, blaming P4T for the shutdown, due to what he believed to be "trolling". Perhaps 3 or 4 threads out of 50 on their first page were related to P4T analysis during such time. Trolling? Really? Wow....

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onesliceshort
post Jan 9 2014, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE
insults and rage directed toward those who simply disagree


rolleyes.gif

I know I speak for Rob, Craig, Aldo and many more when I say that the incessant, childish and at times downright nasty comments directed towards us at any sites where these alleged "skeptics" appear (when the dreaded "pilotsfor911truth" and "noc evidence" appear lol) are so commonplace that I don't even register it!

Just before I was banned at ATS, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Just one or two researchers (or people with the research at their disposal) can stand their ground there no problem against multiple "skeptics". If you look at any of the threads there, you'll see 5 or 6 off topic, insulting, troll posts to every post that actually debates the evidence.

What a crock.
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rob balsamo
post Jan 9 2014, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Jan 9 2014, 11:39 AM) *
What a crock.


Exactly...

I sent one last email to Bill after I made the above post...

Subject: Bill, you really should tell your people the truth...

Because we will.......
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10810558

(with P4T members in BCC)

Regards,
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
Full member list at http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core
Photos here http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots


Bill responds playing the victim card (as if somehow his email address is some big secret...lol) while threatening the ban hammer at his forum....

And the above post somehow inspired what looks to be an attempt at a "board war," with another email to me, this time with my email address copied to an unknown number of "P4T" members.

These tactics are sad. AboveTopSecret.com has been a sympathetic partner to various 9/11 groups over the years, but because some of our staff and members disagree with their methods and portions of their "platform," aggressive attacks and unprofessionalism is the chosen response.

I will remind all members that "Board Wars" are against our Terms and Conditions. Feel free to participate in any discussion anywhere off ATS, however, if your actions are seen as antagonizing other forum operators/members on behalf of ATS, your account here may be in jeopardy.


I would have to say, this guy is rapidly creeping up to take the "Ultimate Tool" title from "Pinch" Paisley....lol

"Sympathetic partner"? Really? No Bill, pathetic is more like it.

I have tried to speak with you civilly the last time you blamed us for shutting down your forum. You turned a blind eye and in fact told me you feel it "causes the most stress" for your staff (your words, and I have the emails to prove it). Then you went on to tell me how "unpopular" your 9/11 Forum is despite your own stats which proved otherwise (before the shut down. I am sure it is very unpopular now).

Bill, this is not about a board war... this is about a debate challenge. But clearly you decline and would rather bully laymen at your forum, albeit poorly.

And get rid of those ads! All you are doing is telling people you do not want them to re-visit. You wanna talk about "professionalism"? Your site is a mess!
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rob balsamo
post Jan 10 2014, 02:42 PM
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Now this takes the cake... a perfect example of ATS bias completely absent of their motto, "Deny Ignorance".

I took a stroll over there to check and see if Bill is still crying due to being challenged to a debate... he had a few more whimpers here and there. Then he dried his eyes and moved the whole thread to the "Hoax" bin based on a post which states -


QUOTE (some anonymous ATS member)
Ok i had a friend find what im looking for hes a flight engineer so let me post it!
heres the link www.flyingtigersgroup.org...
2.3 The Boeing 767 – 200ER Sample Vref Speeds (Flying Tigers)
...
7. Normal Operating Speed True Vno = 460 – 490 kts

Now notice in what i posted the VNO is 490 knots but on your vg diagram you have it at 360 knots. So your VG diagram is wrong right from the start.


First, there is so much wrong with the above quote I don't know where to begin. When I first read it, I felt it may have been written by some kid playing Microsoft Flight Simulator.

And sure enough... I click on the source link... and it says on the top/first page of the "manual" -


Edition:
FS2002 Boeing 767 – 200/300ER
Effective:
February 12, 2003
Copyright:
The Flying Tigers Group


The Flying Tigers Group is a Virtual Airline! They are sourcing a manual created by Microsoft Flight Sim pilots! (who obviously do not know the real definition of Vno)..

laughing1.gif

But wait, it gets better. The reason Bill moved the thread is because he cannot find "Vno" in the Boeing 767 Type Certificate Data Sheet... and even quotes it himself with a screenshot.



He thinks that because it says on the bottom "For other airspeed limits, see the appropriate FAA-Approved Airplane Flight Manual." that he will find "Vno" in a B767 AFM. Well, no, he won't. He will find other airspeed limitations for flaps, windshield, icing, rough air penetration.... etc. Vno is no longer in use by jet aircraft, it has been replaced with Vmo!

If Bill and his members (and his members "friend") really knew anything about aviation or had any aeronautical knowledge whatsoever... they would know Vno/Vne hasn't been used in Jets since the 1960's, and was replaced with Vmo.


NASA VGH (velocity,load factor and altitude) recorders were installed on 12 types of turboprop and turbojet aircraft during the period 1960-61. Analysis of these data showed that the operation speeds Vno were being exceeded significantly more frequently than had been experienced in operations of piston-engined transports.
Because of the structural implications of these studies, the regulatory agencies and industry dropped the use of Vne for commercial transports certified under FAR 25. In 1964 the maximum operating limit speed Vmo was introduced in FAR 25.1505; i.e., “Vmo Speeds; The maximum operating limit speed (Vmo/Mmo airpseed or Mach number, whichever is critical at that particular altitude) is a speed that may not be deliberately exceeded in any regime of flight (climb, cruise, or descent), unless a higher speed is authorized for flight test or pilot training.” Source - Structural Loads Analysis for Commercial Transport Aircraft: Theory and Practice - Ted L. Lomax - Google Books


(note again the source is not from some kids playing FS2000)



It is also apparent that Bill did not read anything from this page which was sourced for him many times, because if he did, he would perhaps take pause before placing his own foot into his mouth thinking a "Normal Operating" speed could be greater than Vd.

The dive speed [Vd] is the absolute maximum speed above which the aircraft must not fly. Typically, to achieve this speed, the aircraft must enter a dive (steep descent), as the engines cannot produce sufficient thrust to overcome aerodynamic drag in level flight. At the dive speed, excessive aircraft vibrations develop which put the aircraft structural integrity at stake. Source - The Flying Engineer


(note the source is from real pilots, not some kids playing FS2000)



Basically what happened with regard to the FS2000 "manual" is that the kids playing FS2000 used "Vno" because they saw it meant "Normal Operating Speed". They interpreted this to mean normal operations at cruise... at altitude. And in this instance, they would be correct based on True Airspeed. (somewhat). Notice they use the words "Normal Operating Speed True" in their "manual".

But their use of the term "Vno" is inaccurate.

This is where Vno is on a real Airspeed indicator. (note it is below Vne, and also note it is used for slower aircraft)


(Just a quick search I did, note the source is actually from a Flight Instructor and not some kids playing Microsoft Flight Sim)

And this is what it looks like on a Jet after the 1960's rules change described above - (note, Vno was replaced with Vmo and Vne was removed)



So, to sum up, ATS CEO Bill Irvine whose motto is "Deny Ignorance" thinks a "manual" written by some kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator takes precedent over the Boeing 767 Type Certificate Data Sheet. And to top it off, all his minions, some of perhaps the most notorious P4T haters come running as cheerleaders to support Bill.

laughing1.gif

Man... it doesn't get any better than that....

Congrats Bill, you have just taken the "Ultimate Tool" title away from "Pinch" Paisley.

And to many of Bill's minions who I know read this forum obsessively, don't worry, I won't be emailing Bill to correct him. I actually want him to leave it the way it is! So that any real Jet pilot reading it will know that Bill Irvine is in fact.. a tool.


Flight Training Education: 50 - 75k
Cost of Flying for a living: Two marriages, a house and 3 cars (satire, but many pilots do experience such issues when flying for a living)
Watching ATS CEO Bill Irvine place his own foot firmly into his mouth: Priceless

For everything else, there is P4T. (real analysis provided by real and verified pilots, aero engineers, and other aviation professionals)
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rob balsamo
post Jan 10 2014, 04:00 PM
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Awww.. it looks like one of his "members" has corrected him after reading the above post. I wonder how long it will take for Bill to admit he is the polar opposite of his own motto. They should change it from "Deny Ignorance" to "Embrace Ignorance!".

laughing1.gif

And for Ben, since I know you are reading here. Anytime you wish to directly ask me your questions, feel free to sign up! And then you too will understand where you have gone wrong. Same goes for "choos".
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onesliceshort
post Jan 10 2014, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE
The Flying Tigers Group




biggrin.gif
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EagleEye
post Feb 3 2014, 01:37 AM
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They ended up having to close the thread, because the conversation shifted to people asking why it was placed in the hoax bin, with even the detractors rushing to the defense of the thread author in refutation of the ADMIN NOTICE inserted by the site owner, which was highly ironic.

Here's where the fun is. (enjoy)

http:// www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread990280/pg1 (remove space before www)


The thread author has since been banned for very minor T&C infraction, silencing his right to freedom of speech and the ability to share his research with likeminded people in a CONSPIRACY FORUM. It's absurd unless the forum itself functions as a type of "honey pot" who's aim it is to remove such information from the public's consumption and awareness or to keep people in the dark regarding one of the most vital issues facing the USA and the whole world in which case it's worse than absurd; it's an act of cowardice, and betrayal based on nothing more than a false assumption based and rooted, in ignorance which ATS's own motto USED to be "deny ignorance".

So instead of showcasing the research on a 9/11 Conspiracy Forum, and even applauding the efforts of the Thread Author, the thread was moved to the hoax bin under false pretenses (a "hoax" in and of itself) and the thread author himself (moi) later banned outright on the basis of a very minor T&C violation, but it was inevitable once the target was on him for having tangled with the ATS staff and ownership who piled on in the thread like a gang on a mission.

Principals.

They sure are worthy of getting banner at ATS to uphold.

Now i know better where Jesus was coming from. The sad irony being the nature of the "double-bind" that binds itself, even in it's own outrage and fury where there's always a bill to be paid so to speak.

But oh to be the one who misaligns themselves and their consciousness and their hardened will, with a convoluted and twisted agenda, now that's a whole tangled network of lies all bound up on the wrong side of history.

Which is probably why Jesus asks us to pray for our enemies, because they are in dire need of help.


Read through to the end of that thread in the ATS HOAX BIN - you'll be rewarded with something both surprising and humorous, imho.


Best Regards,

EagleEye

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rob balsamo
post Feb 6 2014, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (EagleEye @ Feb 3 2014, 12:37 AM) *
So instead of showcasing the research on a 9/11 Conspiracy Forum, and even applauding the efforts of the Thread Author, the thread was moved to the hoax bin under false pretenses (a "hoax" in and of itself) and the thread author himself (moi) later banned outright on the basis of a very minor T&C violation, but it was inevitable once the target was on him for having tangled with the ATS staff and ownership who piled on in the thread like a gang on a mission.



No one here is surprised of the outcome. I tried to warn you what will happen when you first expressed your desire to post our work on ATS.

As I explained, anyone who posts our work on ATS will be virtually gang raped by the staff, the CEO will come out of the woodwork, they will move and close your thread, and you will eventually be banned.

Again....The Staff at ATS is not interested in the truth. .and in this case in particular, are more interested in a flight manual written by some kids who fly Microsoft Flight Simulator.

You have an excellent understanding of our work, EagleEye,... I recommend you take your argument to a more objective forum. You have proven your point at ATS. Good job!
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EagleEye
post Feb 10 2014, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 6 2014, 06:43 PM) *
No one here is surprised of the outcome. I tried to warn you what will happen when you first expressed your desire to post our work on ATS.

As I explained, anyone who posts our work on ATS will be virtually gang raped by the staff, the CEO will come out of the woodwork, they will move and close your thread, and you will eventually be banned.

Again....The Staff at ATS is not interested in the truth. .and in this case in particular, are more interested in a flight manual written by some kids who fly Microsoft Flight Simulator.

You have an excellent understanding of our work, EagleEye,... I recommend you take your argument to a more objective forum. You have proven your point at ATS. Good job!


I discovered that the staff and ownership of ATS, with the exception of maybe one among them, are.. not very nice people, especially the CEO.

They're on the wrong side of history, the poor bastards.

There are many who just don't know lacking in information, they can be excused, but then there are also those who do, and who nevertheless persist in trying to defend the wrong side and for all the wrong reasons, i sure don't envy them when the truth comes home to roost which it's already doing everywhere.

Some of the others just can't believe what the government is capable of, but there's an inner circle there who do know better.

ATS is a honey pot. If a truth emerges there, they work very actively to shut it down and remove it from public consumption, it's the pattern.

What a disgusting and disgraceful thing that is when you really think about it.



This post has been edited by EagleEye: Feb 10 2014, 09:34 PM
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rob balsamo
post Feb 12 2014, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (EagleEye @ Feb 10 2014, 08:30 PM) *
I discovered that the staff and ownership of ATS, with the exception of maybe one among them, are.. not very nice people, especially the CEO.


I think the most hilarious part is that the CEO of ATS moved your thread to the hoax bin due to a "rebuttal" document provided by some anonymous member of ATS, in which has been proven to be written by kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, in lieu of actual documents provided by Boeing.....

As if the CEO of ATS couldn't reduce his credibility even further.... he outdoes himself once again.... what an idiot. laughing1.gif

And yes, now that you have been banned from ATS, EagleEye, (as predicted)..... I will email this post to Bill Irvine (the CEO of ATS).... because I know he and his cronies read this forum, but at times need to be prompted.

Keep an eye on "TheSkepticGuy" profile registered at this forum, and note his last login after this post. I give it less than two hours after this post that he checks this post....

:-)
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 12 2014, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 12 2014, 02:57 PM) *
I think the most hilarious part is that the CEO of ATS moved your thread to the hoax bin due to a "rebuttal" document provided by some anonymous member of ATS, in which has been proven to be written by kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, in lieu of actual documents provided by Boeing.....

Well, we know here why we call it Above Top Sh*t for years. Even just by simple using Googleleaks with right keywords I was at the time able to find more above top secret (and beyond N.S.A. classified) stuff in couple of seconds than ever at the ATS... rolleyes.gif
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23investigator
post Feb 13 2014, 06:18 AM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Feb 13 2014, 12:41 PM) *
Well, we know here why we call it Above Top Sh*t for years. Even just by simple using Googleleaks with right keywords I was at the time able to find more above top secret (and beyond N.S.A. classified) stuff in couple of seconds than ever at the ATS... rolleyes.gif



Dear 'tume-------'

What a lovely smile, I am listening to Matt Munro at the moment, what a wonderful world.

That is the big difference in this world, and we don't need GOOGLE to find that out.

Robert S

ps missed you from here!!
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 13 2014, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (23investigator @ Feb 12 2014, 11:18 PM) *
Dear 'tume-------'
What a lovely smile, I am listening to Matt Munro at the moment, what a wonderful world.
That is the big difference in this world, and we don't need GOOGLE to find that out.
Robert S
ps missed you from here!!

Thanks Robert
cheers.gif
not easy years behind...nor ahead...
There are precious things in this world one can't google at all.
But I sometimes google music and I'm amazed what one can find.
I'm not sure if it makes me smile always, but at least not sick&tired.
Which one can't say about the ATS stuff - either the real, or the braiwash sold under that trademark or many other trademarks registered by theyTMTM
Sometimes one would want to cry: "You thought TV is ultimate way how to destroy peoples minds? Think twice. TV could be a stoneage of braiwashing in comparison with the global scale laundromat people could create for themselves using internet and all that fancy online, on-air, on-whatever gadgets often never seeing the faces, nor hearing voices of those unleashing the demons instead of learning something"
Or just :"stick your smartphone ya' know where.." (before one realizes it could be a ditty abused by militaryhiphopindustrialcomplex in starshiptroopersX without even paying royalties)

One rarely has simple human feeling with all this, so missing sometimes.

Once over a decade ago I knew a girl, she had multiple mobilephones...then she disposed them, fled to an island in the middle of the pacific the express mail is reaching in month, even with email it is in simmilar ratio to usual standards and never really came back.

How to not get crazy, mad or simply thoroughly alienated...

Recently I again encountered a guy here who apparently thinks that repeated insults to people trying to talk with him and to common sense help his "truth" cause and I wanted to leave again as some years ago after trying to talk to another such and learned among other things I'm agent of idontrememberwhat (unfortunately without the beautiful asian girl, copter and yacht the guy Rooks from the Cypher had).

So many thanks again. Really. Sorry for me lacking English skills to find more appropriate words perhaps, but it's like a fresh blue lagoon encountered on the sad journey through the desert.
- which after all one at least still can walk on and that's maybe why the deserts somehow frighten me less than oceans, although we're made of water and I like whales and dolphins and I suppose they would have opposite opinion...and we need a bird to add the third ..so we are at P4T.
- at least we somehow deeply sense it weren't aliens who did it so for now we don't really need the fourth although it is not really comforting and it falls in my mind what the little girl told to that pathetic lone gunman in the group therapy standoff scene of the Spielberg's monstermovie Taken...although frankly my favorite scene is the uncle Chet's last message. thumbsup.gif
I wondered what a buddhist would really do if encountering the bettle scuttling across his meditation footpath, then I realized human is though one perhaps wishes him not to underfoot it and say hello one doesn't really know, but wonders and asks.
But to get back to the aged thread topic and after experience I bet that in this Xth-generation (dis-)information age one should again better watch out what and who offers the "answers".
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paulmichael
post Aug 7 2014, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE (911analyzer @ Aug 1 2012, 12:15 AM) *
it is because of associates of P4T making a mockery of those interested in the truth.


The moderators of Above Top Secret (ATS) are fine ones to be casting aspersions on others for making a mockery of the truth considering the way in which those ATS moderators censor the truth by deleting posts... a most hypocritical way, I might add.

Oh, they are kind enough to inform you of a deletion by stating that the post on which you had worked rather hard and in good faith has been "moved to the trash bin." How insulting!

Recently a message went to ATS participants regarding shills.

I don't know if this was a broadcast message to everyone or just to certain individual like me.

It was labeled "Community Announcements," but there is no "Community Announcements" forum so I cannot retrieve that message by digging through a forum nor by way of the ATS search feature.

This is a problem because I don't remember the exact wording of the message, but I came away with the impression that if anyone so much as intimates that ATS is infested with shills – and I am of the firm belief that it is – then his account will be terminated.

To be quite honest, I don't know who is worse: the ATS shills or the ATS moderators.

One thing to be sure is that ATS is advertising-sponsored, and, like the mainstream media, ATS has to be careful about not offending its advertisers lest accounts and revenues be lost.

However, since ATS is a "conspiracy forum" I don't understand how they can keep from being controversial with such controversy posing a risk of offending sponsors. I think there is a major flaw in the business model of ATS, but somehow it managed to be around for a good amount of time.

P.M.
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paulmichael
post Dec 24 2014, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (paulmichael @ Aug 7 2014, 08:25 AM) *
To be quite honest, I don't know who is worse: the ATS shills or the ATS moderators.

One thing to be sure is that ATS is advertising-sponsored, and, like the mainstream media, ATS has to be careful about not offending its advertisers lest accounts and revenues be lost.

However, since ATS is a "conspiracy forum" I don't understand how they can keep from being controversial with such controversy posing a risk of offending sponsors. I think there is a major flaw in the business model of ATS, but somehow it managed to be around for a good amount of time.



In a reply in Above Top Secret thread #1046859, dated December 17, 2014, SkepticOverlord states, "We've passed on several direct-buy campaigns (big advertisers paying to run specifically on ATS) because they wanted certain topics removed or suppressed."

The main topic of the thread was how ATS has resorted to fund-raising to cover the costs associated with a denial of service attack plus the loss of Google's AdSense advertising revenues.

See, I told you that there were flaws in their business model.

P.M.

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