Baa Baa TrollSheep, Split from Various Threads- Merged Options

[sheeplenshills]

As of January 2010, over 1,000 architects and engineers have signed our petition demanding a real investigation into the destruction of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. This petition, along with AE911Truth literature and DVDs, will also be presented to every Member of Congress.




http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

There are about 500 signatures from "engineers" on this petition. Impressive? well not really. There are about 2,000,000 real, degree qualified engineers working in the US

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20021015S0031

The petition lists many of their 500 as retired but for simplicities sake we won't add the total number of retired engineers to our 2 million, the math is damning enough already (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

so less than 1 in 4000 engineers signed this petition and when you take into account the fact that about 1% of the population suffer from schizophrenia that means an engineer is 40 times more likely to be crazy than to sign this thing!

likewise...........


Only 170 "Architects" out of 220,000 signed the AE911Truth petition

http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

Did you know that there are about 220,000 architects in the USA and only about 170 on the petition?.....thats make it about 1 in 1000 that signed.

http://www.areforum.org/forums/showthread.php?p=923529

With the odds of anyone having Schizophrenia being about 1/100, I'm surprised so few signed the petition! Only 10% of crazy architects signed (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://www.pbs.org/inthebalance/archives/w...izophrenia.html

An architect is 10 times more likely to be mentally ill than to have signed the petition! Actually its worse than that. Many on the list are retired so don't show in the above number of architects.

Kinds of puts this AE911Truth petition into perspective doesn't it?

[sheeplenshills]

for those that could not find the video in question....

http://www.livevideo.com/video/genghis6199...7-debunked.aspx

much longer video of the same event can be found on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjRVC2-SP9g&NR=1

This was an exercise to test a new fuel additive that restricted fire in the event of an accident

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1891...pg=1381,4669836
The additive was removed by filters IIRC in the engines so that it would burn properly and when the plane crashed off line, one of the engines hit the posts that were designed to remove the wings as in a real life accident (trees buildings etc) and the filtered fuel ignited easily and then ignited the rest of the fuel in the tanks. Ironically although the fire was much less than in a normal crash (many perhaps most of the passengers would have survived) but the video killed any chance of the tech being adopted.

So for a start the resulting fire may not resemble a plane which did not have the additive. nor is it likely that the plane in question was moving anything like as fast as the 767s that hit the WTCs nor do we know the slo mo rate of the movie shown so again any comparison would be very difficult to make.

Furthermore the posts in the video were designed to remove the planes wings......the lamposts at the Pentagon were lightweight Aluminium capable of being easily lifted by two people so one cannot compare the affects of the posts in the two crashes at all.

This post has been edited by sheeplenshills: Feb 2 2010, 03:14 PM

[Carl Bank]

for those that could not find the video in question....

http://www.livevideo.com/video/genghis6199...7-debunked.aspx

much longer video of the same event can be found on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjRVC2-SP9g&NR=1

Thanks for the link!

So for a start the resulting fire may not resemble a plane which did not have the additive. nor is it likely that the plane in question was moving anything like as fast as the 767s that hit the WTCs nor do we know the slo mo rate of the movie shown so again any comparison would be very difficult to make.

Uhhhm...but - hey- there was an exit hole 3 buildings behind the impact hole. Govt. says, the plane slammed through all 3 building to leave that round hole...
Don't you think, this talks about an extreme high speed? After all, this section was just renovated and especially reinforced, so it must have been an very powerful, fast moving object
that caused that hole. So far for comparism... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/SPrestonUSA/SPUSA/C-ring_Exit_Hole.jpg)

Furthermore the posts in the video were designed to remove the planes wings......the lamposts at the Pentagon were lightweight Aluminium capable of being easily lifted by two people so one cannot compare the affects of the posts in the two crashes at all.

Furthermore... The wings of a Boeing aircraft are of course not made of lightweight aluminium, but from solid high grade steel... just like the Steel beams in
the WTC . And this time the alumninum of the poles lost the fight against the steel of the wings, while at the WTC the steel of the building of course
also lost against the aluminium of the planes...and some gallons of exploded hydrocarbon... oh my...

...sheeplenshills, I don't know if you did put in the effort to read around here, but it looks as if you didn't get the intention of this forum.
This is not (add as many exclamation marks as you like) a debate-forum. It is a research forum.

That said, you will find a huge ammount of experts here, who to this point are maybe to lazy or to busy to answer your post, but if you continue
to 'debate' like our favourite fools from the J.R. Eving Fanclub, they will mst likely shortly show up here and play with you.

If this will be the case: Welcome to the real world.

Carl

[GroundPounder]

no, it doesn't.

[greenrayriver]

As of January 2010, over 1,000 architects and engineers have signed our petition demanding a real investigation into the destruction of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. This petition, along with AE911Truth literature and DVDs, will also be presented to every Member of Congress.




http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

There are about 500 signatures from "engineers" on this petition. Impressive? well not really. There are about 2,000,000 real, degree qualified engineers working in the US

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20021015S0031

The petition lists many of their 500 as retired but for simplicities sake we won't add the total number of retired engineers to our 2 million, the math is damning enough already (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

so less than 1 in 4000 engineers signed this petition and when you take into account the fact that about 1% of the population suffer from schizophrenia that means an engineer is 40 times more likely to be crazy than to sign this thing!

likewise...........


Only 170 "Architects" out of 220,000 signed the AE911Truth petition

http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

Did you know that there are about 220,000 architects in the USA and only about 170 on the petition?.....thats make it about 1 in 1000 that signed.

http://www.areforum.org/forums/showthread.php?p=923529

With the odds of anyone having Schizophrenia being about 1/100, I'm surprised so few signed the petition! Only 10% of crazy architects signed (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://www.pbs.org/inthebalance/archives/w...izophrenia.html

An architect is 10 times more likely to be mentally ill than to have signed the petition! Actually its worse than that. Many on the list are retired so don't show in the above number of architects.

Kinds of puts this AE911Truth petition into perspective doesn't it?

"People with Mental Illness Enrich Our Lives"
Information about famous people throughout history who have had a serious mental illness.


Abraham Lincoln
The revered sixteenth President of the United States suffered from severe and incapacitating depressions that occasionally led to thoughts of suicide, as documented in numerous biographies by Carl Sandburg.

Virginia Woolf
The British novelist who wrote To the Lighthouse and Orlando experienced the mood swings of bipolar disorder characterized by feverish periods of writing and weeks immersed in gloom. Her story is discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr.

Lionel Aldridge
A defensive end for Vince Lombardi's legendary Green Bay Packers of the 1960's, Aldridge played in two Super Bowls. In the 1970's, he suffered from schizophrenia and was homeless for two and a half years. Until his death in 1998, he gave inspirational talks on his battle against paranoid schizophrenia. His story is the story of numerous newspaper articles.

Eugene O'Neill
The famous playwright, author of Long Day's Journey Into Night and Ah, Wilderness!, suffered from clinical depression, as documented in Eugene O'Neill by Olivia E. Coolidge.

Ludwig van Beethoven
The brilliant composer experienced bipolar disorder, as documented in The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb.

Gaetano Donizetti
The famous opera singer suffered from bipolar disorder, as documented in Donizetti and the World Opera in Italy, Paris and Vienna in the First Half of the Nineteenth Century by Herbert Weinstock.

Robert Schumann
The "inspired poet of human suffering" experienced bipolar disorder, as discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr.

Leo Tolstoy
Author of War and Peace, Tolstoy revealed the extent of his own mental illness in the memoir Confession. His experiences is also discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr and The Inner World of Mental Illness: A Series of First Person Accounts of What It Was Like by Bert Kaplan.

Vaslov Nijinsky
The dancer's battle with schizophrenia is documented in his autobiography, The Diary of Vaslov Nijinksy.

John Keats
The renowned poet's mental illness is documented in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr and The Broken Brain: The biological Revolution in Psychiatry by Nancy Andreasen, M.D.

Tennessee Williams
The playwright gave a personal account of his struggle with clinical depression in his own Memoirs. His experience is also documented in Five O'Clock Angel: Letters of Tennessee Williams to Maria St. Just, 1948-1982; The Kindness of Strangers: The Life of Tennessee Williams by Donald Spoto, and Tennessee: Cry of the Heart by Dotson.

Vincent Van Gogh
The celebrated artist's bipolar disorder is discussed in The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb and Dear Theo, The Autobiography of Van Gogh.

Isaac Newton
The scientist's mental illness is discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr and The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb.

Ernest Hemingway
The Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist's suicidal depression is examined in the True Gen: An Intimate Portrait of Ernest Hemingway by Those Who Knew Him by Denis Brian.

Sylvia Plath
The poet and novelist ended her lifelong struggle with clinical depresion by taking own life, as reported in A Closer Look at Ariel: A Memory of Sylvia Plath by nancy Hunter-Steiner.

Michelangelo
The mental illness of one of the world's greatest artistic geniuses is discussed in The Dynamics of Creation by Anthony Storr.

Winston Churchill
"Had he been a stable and equable man, he could never have inspired the nation. In 1940, when all the odds were against Britain, a leader of sober judgment might well have concluded that we were finished," wrote Anthony Storr about Churchill's bipolar disorder in Churchill's Black Dog, Kafka's Mice, and Other Phenomena of the Human Mind.

Vivien Leigh
The Gone with the Wind star suffered from mental illness, as documented in Vivien Leigh: A Biography by Ann Edwards.

Jimmy Piersall
The baseball player for the Boston Red Sox who suffered from bipolar disorder detailed his experience in The Truth Hurts.

Patty Duke
The Academy Award-winning actress told of her bipolar disorder in her autobiography and made-for-TV move Call Me Anna and A Brilliant Madness: Living with Manic-Depressive Illness, co-authored by Gloria Hochman.

Charles Dickens
One of the greatest authors in the English language suffered from clinical depression, as documented in The Key to Genius: Manic Depression and the Creative Life by D. Jablow Hershman and Julian Lieb, and Charles Dickens: His Tragedy and Triumph by Edgar Johnson.



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[rob balsamo]

[i]

Kinds of puts this AE911Truth petition into perspective doesn't it?

Ahhh.. the good ol' "as compared to all the people in the world" fallacy trotted out ad nauseam by the ignorant peanut gallery.

We get the same crap from the GL's.

Once all the Aviation professionals, Architects, Engineers... etc.. in the world are polled after researching both sides of the issue, then you may have an argument. Until then, lets really put this into perspective.

We have hundreds of verified aviation professionals speaking out against the govt story. We been in existence a little over 3 years.

AE has over 1000 verified professionals. They been in existence a little over 3 years.

ALPA, the largest and most powerful Airline Union in the world has only 9% of the pilot population. They been in existence over 70 years. Does that mean 91% of pilots disagree with ALPA?


Those who make excuse for the govt story have ZERO verified aviation professionals speaking out in support of their theories.

Perspective....

And Shills, please read the forum rules. This will be your only warning. After that, vacation time commences.

[sheeplenshills]

...sheeplenshills, I don't know if you did put in the effort to read around here, but it looks as if you didn't get the intention of this forum.
This is not (add as many exclamation marks as you like) a debate-forum. It is a research forum.

That said, you will find a huge ammount of experts here, who to this point are maybe to lazy or to busy to answer your post, but if you continue
to 'debate' like our favourite fools from the J.R. Eving Fanclub, they will mst likely shortly show up here and play with you.

If this will be the case: Welcome to the real world.

Carl


Not entirely sure what you mean....I was merely pointing out that the video of the fuel additive test crash is a poor indication of what may or may not have happened at the Pentagon. Sorry for the exclamation marks. I'll try to resist in future.

[Carl Bank]

Not entirely sure what you mean....I was merely pointing out that the video of the fuel additive test crash is a poor indication of what may or may not have happened at the Pentagon. Sorry for the exclamation marks. I'll try to resist in future.

No, no. No pun intended. I want to believe that you just wanted to make a point, that this video don't explain anything that happened there at the Pentagon,
but I just ... well sort of ... had the feeling, that you were trying to troll a bit. Your low post rate and your nickname added to this idea, i just wanted to assure you,
that we are all more than familiar with absolutely every kind of debate style, trolls, shills and govt. loyalists can come up with.
You just reminded me of one. Not more, not less.

Terribly sorry if you are genuine, but believe me: Better Carl gives you a fair warning than Rob or Painter even Cary does.
I am from Europe, and here we got some stereotype prejudices about Americans. Guys like them are best described
as "The Truth Rednecks"... if you get my drift...

So - Welcome to the forum. Read around, see the entire picture and get familiar with some of the most ambitiouse, intelligent, fearless
patient, dedicated and hardest truthers of the world.


And with me: Carl

[sheeplenshills]

"Terribly sorry if you are genuine, but believe me: Better Carl gives you a fair warning than Rob or Painter even Cary does.
I am from Europe, and here we got some stereotype prejudices about Americans. Guys like them are best described
as "The Truth Rednecks"... if you get my drift...

So - Welcome to the forum. Read around, see the entire picture and get familiar with some of the most ambitiouse, intelligent, fearless
patient, dedicated and hardest truthers of the world."


Carl, I am a confirmed skeptic as regards CTs is general and the 911 one in particular. I came to get interested after reading and seeing so many errors in fact, math and physics in another forum that I felt compelled to answer them. That forum led to here and I see the same thing. I've since learned via Rob that some of these threads are for debate (always fun) and others for "research". My only question is if one sees errors in a "research" post....where is the right place to point these out?

I can add this research data point. The furthest lamp pole from the pentagon from was about 930 feet from the point of impact. If the plane was traveling at say 350mph (as reported by Mr Morin) reported it would have been travelling at about 513 ft per second so would have hit the building in about 1.8 seconds. Even if the flight from this point was completely ballistic only (no lift, no thrust) it would only have dropped only 16m (52ft) feet in that distance so would have hit the pentagon or the ground very close to it irregardless of any damage done to it by the poles (thats assuming horizontal flight which isn't quite right but you get the point)

[rob balsamo]

I can add this research data point. The furthest lamp pole from the pentagon from was about 930 feet from the point of impact. If the plane was traveling at say 350mph (as reported by Mr Morin) reported it would have been travelling[sic] at about 513 ft per second so would have hit the building in about 1.8 seconds. Even if the flight from this point was completely ballistic only (no lift, no thrust) it would only have dropped only 16m (52ft) feet in that distance so would have hit the pentagon or the ground very close to it irregardless of any damage done to it by the poles (thats assuming horizontal flight which isn't quite right but you get the point)

Shills,

Your numbers are wrong.

If you are going to argue in support of the govt story, you may want to research what the govt has to say and the data they provide.

Start here.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7163

The above is a great example of why your posts are moved to the Debate section of this board. Your research is piss poor and mostly wrong. You have zero expertise on the matter, and quite frankly, i dont want you mucking up threads with your false information.

If you feel something is wrong in our research, Start a thread in the debate section, title it as appropriate, link it to a thread you dispute elsewhere on the forum, and then rant till your hearts content.

Keep in mind, there is over 3 years of solid research on this forum. If you are coming in here with less than 3 months of solid research under your belt regarding the topics on this board, you will find yourself way out of your depth and league.

If you continue your rants which are patently false and filled with logical fallacies, you will be sent on vacation in hope that you use the time to study and come back more prepared.

[sheeplenshills]

ALL 4 INVOLVED IN SENATE HOMELAND SECURITY BREAKIN ARE CIA “N-O-C” AGENTS

By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

Last week’s breakin at Senator Mary Landrieu’s office in the New Orleans Federal Building was more than it seemed, much more. All of the 4 arrested had been trained by the CIA and, possibly, Israel. One arrested, Stan Dai, is listed as an Operations Officer of the Department of Defense Irregular Warfare Program and a known expert and lecturer on, not only surveillance but explosives training, assassinations and “false flag operations.” If you wanted a plane to crash, an enemy to get sick and die or a building to blow up, Dai would be the man to know how to make it happen. Problem is, his skills were being used as part of a criminal conspiracy inside the United States against members of our own government.

full article: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/01/30/se...-team-arrested/

Why should we believe that source? do you have independent verification of what he says is actually true??

[sheeplenshills]

Hold on if wtc 7 was on fire at 9:30 am before either of the twin towers collapsed at 9:59 am this means that
the collapse of the north tower did not start the fires in wtc 7 as the result of falling debris from the North tower
hitting wtc 7 so this means NIST could be lying about the cause of fires, and doesn't this mean that there
is a high probability that the fires in wtc 7 might have been deliberately light?

Is there any other evidence that would indicate that that wtc 7 was on fire at 9:30 am
any other reports anything?

Is it not quite possible that part of the second plane (engine?) struck WT7 prior to the WTC collapses........the picture of WTC7 is interesting with what could be a fire but without the hi res original we can't know if it has been tampered with or not or even if that is a fire and not a reflection of another reflection.

[sheeplenshills]

While the Port Authority was telling people in Tower 2 to go back to their offices, WTC 7 was being evacuated. From what I recall, WTC 7 was empty by 9:30 AM.

There were things falling off the WTC, including jumpers so it was not safe to exit the other building.....at that time no-one there thought this was anything other than a one off accident or that the building would collapse so easily.

[rob balsamo]

Why should we believe that source? do you have independent verification of what he says is actually true??

Shill, why not try to click the link and view their sources?

(I love the fact you chose that name by the way... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

WASHINGTON -- Two of the three men arrested on Monday along with "ACORN pimp" James O'Keefe for "maliciously tampering" with Sen. Mary Landrieu's (D-LA) phones in her New Orleans office have ties to the United States intelligence community. The three accused by the FBI of "aiding and abetting" O'Keefe are Stan Dai, Robert Flanagan and Joseph Basel. O'Keefe is 25, and the other three are 24.

Dai's links to the intelligence community appear to be particularly strong. He was a speaker at Georgetown University's Central Intelligence Agency summer school program in June 2009, and is also listed as an Assistant Director at the Intelligence Community Center of Academic Excellence at Trinity in D.C.

http://rawstory.com/2010/01/men-charged-at...lligence-links/

Also, here, let me google that for you...

Was that so hard?

If you have more questions, why not email the author directly?

gpduf@aol.com

I found his email address and all of the above in less than 2 mins.

[KP50]

Is it not quite possible that part of the second plane (engine?) struck WT7 prior to the WTC collapses........the picture of WTC7 is interesting with what could be a fire but without the hi res original we can't know if it has been tampered with or not or even if that is a fire and not a reflection of another reflection.

Mods - can you please move these posts somewhere else, I feel this person has nothing to offer in this area.

[sheeplenshills]

Mods - can you please move these posts somewhere else, I feel this person has nothing to offer in this area.

I'm starting to see how this forum works......If you are only interested in comments that reinforce your version of events then you should say that upfront. The research side I can understand....debate gets a little lively sometimes but this sort of harrassment in a debate forum is unforgivable.

[sheeplenshills]

Shills,

Your numbers are wrong.

If you are going to argue in support of the govt story, you may want to research what the govt has to say and the data they provide.

Start here.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7163

The above is a great example of why your posts are moved to the Debate section of this board. Your research is piss poor and mostly wrong. You have zero expertise on the matter, and quite frankly, i dont want you mucking up threads with your false information.

If you feel something is wrong in our research, Start a thread in the debate section, title it as appropriate, link it to a thread you dispute elsewhere on the forum, and then rant till your hearts content.

Keep in mind, there is over 3 years of solid research on this forum. If you are coming in here with less than 3 months of solid research under your belt regarding the topics on this board, you will find yourself way out of your depth and league.

If you continue your rants which are patently false and filled with logical fallacies, you will be sent on vacation in hope that you use the time to study and come back more prepared.

[sheeplenshills]

[quote name='greenrayriver' date='Feb 2 2010, 04:41 PM' post='10782349']
"People with Mental Illness Enrich Our Lives"
Information about famous people throughout history who have had a serious mental illness.

Indeed, my Father suffered from Depression too and my Brother killed himself aged 18. Question, do you think Van Gogh was percieving thing accurately?

[lunk]

A crazy person does not know that they are crazy.

The insane think they are just as sane as any,
of the spotted green unicorns cartwheeling around me.

[rob balsamo]

A crazy person does not know that they are crazy.

The insane think they are just as sane as any,
of the spotted green unicorns cartwheeling around me.

You know what is Crazy?

Getting in an aluminum tube and taking it more than 5 miles above the Earth accelerating it to more than 500 mph. Only a crazy person would do that! What is even more crazy, are those who would sit in the back of that tube....

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/pilotfly.gif)

What is even more "crazy"?.... is questioning the United States Govt, their policies, and their motivation.

Yep folks... call me "crazy". I'll agree...

History will judge.... as was said for Bush Jr. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)