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Photography Buffs, Please Help Out Here, or "What's Wrong with this Picture?"

JimMac
post Feb 27 2014, 09:48 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLW0jKKRXMo

This male voice is Kevin Cosgrove. He was stuck in the tower while calling. He kept trying to get some support from the emergency services, but they did not be really helpful except try to calm him down. There are some other 911 tapes from two callers in the towers, that have been exhibited since the Moussaoui Trial. I uploaded the full tape so you can hear the whole call, even if it sounds long, you could guess it would even sound longer to that guy.

This post has been edited by JimMac: Feb 27 2014, 09:49 AM
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Tamborine man
post Feb 27 2014, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 25 2014, 09:15 AM) *
What has "life after death" got to do with this topic??


"Life after Death" has nothing to do with this topic, of course.
It would be clear to all fair minded people though, that i was obviously responding to your comment i quoted, namely:

OSS: "Nope, still no debate going on here." (See your post #52).

My comment was clearly friendly meant. Your response above was clearly hostile and disingenuous.

QUOTE
I've posted the counterarguments against NPT repeatedly, and as with JREFers, it's like trying to get blood from a stone.


Yes, and i know them all almost by 'heart'. You know my views and i know yours. What is there to further 'debate'?

QUOTE
IIRC, paranoia is of the view that floors were dropped as the aircraft struck the building.


Paranoia wrote:
"penetration explained: milliseconds before plane meets building, inside - behind the facade - multiple concrete floor pans, and at least some number of columns inside the building are dropped, clearing way for plane to penetrate the thin exterior."

And,

".... i dont think the plane could penetrate so seamlessly IF the concrete floor pans were in the way."

I speculated that paranoia perhaps was getting his idea from the "Let's Roll Forum" who believe the
towers were gutted to a certain extent. I could be wrong about that of course, but paranoia haven't
corrected me yet, so lets see if that happens!

QUOTE
My point on your "ceiling lights" remark is that you're insinuating that this would have been a risky move ....


I'm not "insinuating" anything of the kind!! Where on earth are you getting this utter rubbish from??

QUOTE
yet the less risky option for you is "better to blow the building up sans aircraft in plain day while the building next to it is being watched by millions, then send in the troops of fake witnesses, photographers, videomakers and a scripted MSM" laughing1.gif


You're dreaming up idiotic stuff again, and then present it with a silly smiley as if it's something i've said!!!! Gee whiz ....

It's noted that you don't quote me verbatim, and obviously so you can put your own spin on whatever written, spiced
of course with derision and ridicule. Why you would want to adopt the dirty tricks of the the govt loyalist site'ers, now baffles me no end???

Cheers
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onesliceshort
post Feb 27 2014, 11:40 AM
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I don't know whether you're misreading my posts or simply being hysterical TM.

I'll reply to this thread again when one of the points raised by me re NPT is addressed. Until then, I'm stepping out of here. I'm getting pissed at the constant insults from yourself while ignoring other insults (simply because they are in the NPT camp) directed at me and others who've been on this forum supporting eachother for years, fighting the good fight.

I expected more from you.
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 27 2014, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 26 2014, 11:15 PM) *
I'm of the opinion that the aircraft was a bunker buster or penetrative warhead type device. I've posted videos showing the similarities.

Here I'm a bit lost. So I address here one of your points with some questions and notes.

How a bunker buster or penetrative warhead punch an imprint similar to a big jetliner shape into a skyscraper facade?
And anyway what would one need a bunker buster or penetrative warhead for? To get through the rows of windows and the 6 milimeter structural steel the outer wall panels were likely made from (connected to rest of the wall structure just by the 84 bolts and pulled inward by the weight of the floors and their load)? Besides the problem with the many dozens of square meters hole dimensions wouldn't be penetrative warheads a bit overkill? Aren't two big jet engines, three pieces of its landing gear and wings filled with jetfuel for a transcontinental flight (so having considerable forward momentum likely up to almost wingtips) all that plus the 168 seats, whole row of dozens of fuselage frames hammering one after another in a swift destruction sequence lasting less than quarter second, oxygen tanks, APU...rest of the plane and its contents, together 115+ tons moving at several hundreds knots speed enough to punch the hole which then thousands of people have seen with their own eyes and billions on the TV? Or in other words when it comes to the WTC2 which is the topic here: Wouldn't a B767 plane apparently able to fly and make precision maneuvres at 500 kts at near sea level altitude be more than enough for accomplishing such job?*
I always thought the bunker busters are to get through heavy reinforced concrete fortification several feets thick (for it they have the heavymetal tips with certain geometry) so I would be a bit amazed somebody would use the same to get through the rows of windows and the 6 milimeter structural steel around. Wouldn't it be a bit cracking a nut with a sledge-hammer or as we say here hunting sparrows with a cannon?

--------
* In fact the logic of the whole thing tells me that rejecting NPTs in fact directly implies that if there was indeed a B767 like plane there impacting the WTC2 as shown by the numerous videos, at the speeds implied by them and by the multiple radar records, it very likely must have been a well reinforced military version with unrestricted flight envelope, which not only would be likely able to penetrate the WTC outer wall, but even without any hypothetic bunkerbusters and penetrative warheads would imply primary principal suspect of the 911 attacks because one really hardly can imagine anybody else in CONUS teritory than the certain biggest establishment there (with acronym consisting from the initial vowel and consonants in the name Usama) could have such truly miraculous plane (already when it comes to its flight cappabilities) at its disposition ...and that's also maybe why the NPT's are such an evergreen -because it distracts from pointing to the very certain and most ominous direction - already marked by the cui bono question answer - which naturally almost everybody avoids to point to, because it literally can mean all from harrasment to death, and, frankly, you would need a whole pact of multiple nuclear superpowers on DEFCON1 like alert just to have any chance to succesfully challenge it - and succesfully I mean without inflicting nuclear WWIII on yourself, your fellow truthers and everybody else...after all the most likely primary motivation of the whole operation was indeed an attempt to start accomplishment of the compellence doctrine - to make such challenge impossible - at least without superior extraterrestrial technologies and/or supernatural powers.
Although now is already clear that the attempt was not only unsuccessful, led to severe unanticipated consequences and have undermined both western economy and spirit, but in fact led in reaction to it to such a paradigm shift in Eurasia that an accomplishment of such doctrine is no more ever possible in both military and moral sense and most likely will gradually lead to marginalization of USA and EU if they don't radically avert multiple major runaway malicious tendencies in its policies which went full blown after 9/11.
What still looked in 1990s that a kind of a partial world government would be achievable to face global challenges in globalized world and with the west in leading position, looks now - just a bit over decade later - as an absolute utopia. The elited maybe believe that every crisis can be used to advance an agenda using chaos theory. But what it they screwed up big time? What it could take to find a remedy? What could challenge such hideous, pervasive and deadly corruption?
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onesliceshort
post Feb 27 2014, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE
Wouldn't a B767 plane apparently able to fly and make precision maneuvres at 500 kts at near sea level altitude be more than enough for accomplishing such job?


Fair point Tume. Maybe I worded my opinion wrongly.

QUOTE
it very likely must have been a well reinforced military version with unrestricted flight envelope, which not only would be likely able to penetrate the WTC outer wall


I should have said that when people question the penetration of the WTC2 facade that there are alternative methods. Even if the nosecone and frame were composed of stronger alloys (for example), penetration would be almost guaranteed. We know that given the ridiculous high speed at sea level that the aircraft had to have been modified, that given the accuracy of the two hits, there was more than likely a guidance system, so why not make the penetration a certainty, you know?

There was definitely a strange feature of the impact before the engines had struck the facade pointing to such a reinforcement.

The "nose out" claim also resembles the effects of a penetrative warhead (maybe "warhead" isn't the right term?)

Edit added: my 2 cents on this issue

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10804776

QUOTE
The elited maybe believe that every crisis can be used to advance an agenda using chaos theory. But what it they screwed up big time? What it could take to find a remedy? What could challenge such hideous, pervasive and deadly corruption?


As long as they have the media, politicians and everybody within the "security services" in their pockets, coupled with the gullible masses, the elitists can adapt to any situation, IMHO.

"Thesis + antithesis = synthesis"

The f*ckers have been doing it for centuries.
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Tamborine man
post Feb 27 2014, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 25 2014, 02:40 PM) *
I don't know whether you're misreading my posts or simply being hysterical TM.

I'll reply to this thread again when one of the points raised by me re NPT is addressed. Until then, I'm stepping out of here. I'm getting pissed at the constant insults from yourself while ignoring other insults (simply because they are in the NPT camp) directed at me and others who've been on this forum supporting eachother for years, fighting the good fight.

I expected more from you.


You misquote and misrepresent me.

With mildly simulated indignation i protest at the gross "injustice".

You turn it completely around feigning yourself to be the victim.

And i end up becoming the "hysterical" villain!!

No wonder i daily despair over the state of this crazy world ......

Cheers
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tumetuestumefais...
post Feb 28 2014, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 27 2014, 11:46 AM) *
I should have said that when people question the penetration of the WTC2 facade that there are alternative methods. Even if the nosecone and frame were composed of stronger alloys (for example), penetration would be almost guaranteed. We know that given the ridiculous high speed at sea level that the aircraft had to have been modified, that given the accuracy of the two hits, there was more than likely a guidance system, so why not make the penetration a certainty, you know?

We can agree there definitely needed to be a guidance of some kind - after all to hit the two targets with such precision and especially in the 2nd case with such breakneck approach wouldn't be easy and happen by accident.
But wouldn't the penetration be possible even with a normal civilian B767 at lower speeds?
If you actually calculate how much the outer wall panel would weight if made from the 6mm steel you come to 2.6 ton and even if it would be say 1cm steel you still come to 4.3 tons. If you then look at the WTC1 and WTC2 holes and estimate how much of the steel was dislodged by the impact then for example at the WTC1 the plane impact crossection completely obliterated whole (2) or substantial parts of other (4) such panels and severely dammaged 9 other. So even if we would take into account all the 15 panels as whole and expect it was the 6mm steel it would be still just 39 tons of steel against 115+ tons of the plane at its high speed impact crossection and around. Of course the plane would be cut&shattered into pieces by the "giant steel sieve" of the outer wall, but I would bet all of it which would be in the way of the engines, landing gears and substantial part of the wings with the fuel tanks giving it high inertia through relatively small crossection would get obliterated because the weight of it would be too small to have sufficient inertia for arresting the penetration. The 6mm steel in the way simply would get deformed and broken (not "cut") at the impact points and where the engines or landing gears would impact it they would likely obliterate whole the panels ripping it from the bolt connections or at least bend or break away substantial parts of them. It was not heavily fortified bunker, it was a relatively light steel structure and 38% area of it were just windows (so there the impacting parts of the plane would not meet any resistence whatsoever, just add to the inertia of the connected parts around meeting the colums and flanges, before breaking apart).

QUOTE
There was definitely a strange feature of the impact before the engines had struck the facade pointing to such a reinforcement.

What strange feature? You mean the infamous flashes?
In any case I would think that the first having some substantial inertia there hitting the wall would be the nose gear. And I would bet it would easily break through if striking a 6mm steel box column. Then you have there the main crew oxygen bottle at the right side of the E&E compartment and portable oxygen bottle on the forward side of the bulkhead in the cockpit. Wouldn't you think any of them would violently explode and burn all around white hot if hitting something at hundreds of knots?

QUOTE
The "nose out" claim also resembles the effects of a penetrative warhead (maybe "warhead" isn't the right term?)

It maybe resembles it but there is no penetration hole and definitely not of a diameter which would be implied by the "nose out" dimensions.
There are two distinct burned spots with dislodged aluminium cladding there and inbetween, at the left side with one column visibly bent. This definitely doesn't look to me like consistent with a penetrator warhead impact. On the other hand couldn't this two spots be the points where the remains of the jet engines after passing the building impacted the opposite wall? To me it looks likely.

QUOTE

Even Blu-109 - and that's one of the bigger penetrator bombs - has only 37cm diameter, how many of them you would need to make the big holes at the entry side? Wouldn't you expect something like blu-109, able to penetrate feets of reinforced concrete, be able to do more damage on the other side than just bent one column?

QUOTE
As long as they have the media, politicians and everybody within the "security services" in their pockets, coupled with the gullible masses, the elitists can adapt to any situation, IMHO.

I would be not so sure. How they adapt to situation whole the high energy consuming technological civilization of the west runs out of the resources and at the same time other superpower (SCO/CSTO) emerges, without any doubt already cappable to absolutely deny access to any further resources from Eurasia except the ones on Arabian peninsula they have been already developed?
OK, they could go nuclear to overcome this problem and there definitely are possibilities to become fully independent on the overseas energy resources, such plans were there since 1960s and politically promoted at least from the Nixon's energy independence project in the 1970s. But so far it looks the elited using the Club of Rome rigged environmental/eugenic/malthusian agenda paid by fossil robberbarons did exactly the oposite. And as decades went the plans from the 1970's aren't viable anymore, because the resources of the U235 powering the past and contemporary generation nuclear plants are depleting even faster than fossil fuels. So it is no more a viable option even in just mid-term prospect and that's why I'm mainly against building of more 3rd generation LWR/PWR nuclear powerplants - they are still quite dangerous and there maybe isn't enough fuel for them anyway. One clearly needs thorium based 4th generation nuclear with closed cycle for overcoming the problem in the long run, and my informations from the field tell me that this was known by tops in the US civilian nuclear research at least since the end of 1960s! But now and in fact since years only China, and to lesser extent also Russia, India and Czech Republic are seriously doing some R&D on the thorium 4th generation (all because they have vast resources of it) - and all this countries except Czech Republic are already more or less outside western-empire power projection. It is paradox, because initially the pioneer of the 4th generation was USA (also having vast resources of thorium), but unfortunately all promissing projects in this field were killed one after another already since the beginning of 1970s using the Club of Rome rigged environmentalist/eugenic/malthusian ideology and even then contemporary nuclear technologies development was more or less completely stalled - there for example wasn't any nuclear powerplant projected and built in USA since the beginning of 1980s! Now the US under auspices of Haliburton drills like crazy for shale gas, but there is real danger that this can irreparably polute and destroy underground water resources and render so whole vast areas practicaly unhabitable, while the possible energy extracted this way could cover the energy needs for well less than decade according to sober estimates of minable shale reserves there. It's maybe nice boom now that it makes the natgas prices drop, and certain pockets again stuffed, but how long will it last, how much damage is done and especially how much more time is lost before somebody will start to take the general fossil peak threat really seriously and take off for solutions viable in long run? Good to note that development of every new technology into commercial stage takes considerable time together with implementing it into existing infrastructure. Wouldn't it be already too late for saving the western technological civilization from economic catastrophe when theyTM eventually wake up?

QUOTE
The f*ckers have been doing it for centuries.

They do, but only since less than 70 years they have technologies cappable to completely destroy life on this planet and use it as ultimate deterrent of taking any action against their corruption.

This post has been edited by tumetuestumefaisdubien: Feb 28 2014, 12:36 PM
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paranoia
post Mar 1 2014, 01:33 PM
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TM - im not sure i understand what you mean about the lights - why would they have to stop working? the entire towers were rigged yet lights and other electrical stuff was working there that day. im not sure why you suppose the lights have to be turned off... the connections of the floors to the facade and to the core would not be visible and would likely be hidden behind drywall and/or ceiling tiles. given the way the concrete (of the floors) later blew apart, my guess is that the floors were rigged along entire horizontal lengths with low explosives, this above ceiling tiles but below the floor of the next story above. the coming undone ("pulverization") of the concrete floors was part of the full collapse sequence. as far as my pre-impact demo theory goes, only the connections of these floor pans to the building would need to be "undone" and the floors/pans could more or less just pancake down seconds before nose of plane meets glass, so long as the floors were out of the way of the plane.

i do not subscribe to the theory that the towers were empty or "hollow", though i would not object to the suspicion of there being unoccupied spaces in the towers that were supposed to be filled by commercial tenants. but where my preimpact demo theory is concerned it would help but the towers do not need to be gutted, though after it of course, multiple floors across a wide and tall space would indeed be gone and thus "gutted". but the same way that access was gained to the entire structure enough to rig it with the necessary explosives for a full collapse (without somehow being detected or caught by tenants and or security), is the same access needed to make sure a certain number of floors fall out of the way of the plane so that it can fully penetrate. this means that under the guise of "construction" demo-riggers rigged these and all the other floors for a proper full-scale top down demo. but at some of these higher floors some kind of remotely detonated devices were added that were set off precisely and accurately by some sort of trigger on the plane itself. in this very precisely timed demo sequence only the necessary floors would fall out of the way (while some but not all columns are left standing, so the upper floors dont squash down).

i believe the reason for this preimpact demo is to make certain that the plane does FULLY penetrate and none of it, possibly a huge chunk of its rear, ends up falling down in to the street. i believe that the plane was not the actual craft it was purported to be and this is why they needed it to disappear completely. also, to help sell their collapse theory - that the plane/fuel caused the building to fully crumble - they needed a full penetration. if the plane did not go in fully and a huge chunk fell outside, more people would be skeptical of the collapses, suspicious that the damage is not severe enough to justify or cause a complete "collapse". not to mention of course, an empty tail section of plane, void of required passengers, would also lead to some serious doubt even by the sheeple. so the plane had to disappear. think about it, how many plane parts were found in the debris? even with a crash and jet fuel explosion, minus a couple smaller parts the entire plane stayed inside the building, it did not come out the other side. so very near to the top of the debris pile, there should have been some plane parts. horizontal sections of skin, chunks of the wing, the wheels and tires, struts, etc., the stronger parts of the plane would have deformed but should have been found relatively intact near the top of the heap. im not saying there wasnt a plane, im saying it was blown to insignificant bits, bits so small they could only be made by high explosives, and not by a plane crash alone.

imo there is a good chance the plane was modified, perhaps specifically even fortified. but the more solid the plane, especially if meeting with the floorpans, the more resistance (slower or slowed penetration) and more substantial horizontal motion of the tower at impact, so substantial that imo it could be disastrous to the precision of the demo sequence needed later for "collapse". if the plane was stronger it would push the tower to the point of either breaking the top off, or tilting the entire tower into a significant lean. its not just a matter of strenghtening a plane for penetration, the rest of the action/reaction needs consideration. if the plane as a solid mass meets the building at parts where it stands as a solid mass, there would be some penetration but mostly alot of friction, and a whole lot of horizontal sway or push. something's got to give to dissipate the velocity of the forward moving plane mass. the plane HAS TO break up, if not it will meet core and push the vertical columns hard horizontally. some sway - barely discernible to the naked eye - did take place, but imo that sway is not representative of any sort of substantial high speed solid mass meeting stable solid mass. thus i believe that the building was hollowed to allow plane to enter, then the plane itself was rigged to explode. i realize of course that the alternative is the plane was sliced into horizontal sections by blunt-ended floors, and this break up was sufficient enough so that the tower only moved/swayed a few inches/feet instead of yards. a sword can cut through a watermellon and a pumpkin through a van's exteriors - sure, but can a plane, especially one with fortified nose/wings/etc. get sliced by something so blunt and wide as floor pans and columns? i say not. somehow the plane was solid enough to fully get past the exterior for the entire length of its fuselage without slowing down, yet came to a stop instead of slicing clear through the building, right? and it came to a stop with minimal horizontal exertion on the building. this is impossible unless the plane breaks up fully in a very short space of time (milliseconds) once inside. it has to be whole to make it in past the tail past the facade, then shatter/fragment or risk meeting the core row of columns as a still intact mass that is an airplane. i get where no planes theory comes from, because seeing the crash is a mindfuck, a physical impossibility - that is unless whats behind that facade is nothing but air, then it makes sense. evan fairbanks (woo alert!) was the first to describe it as a "hangar", to him it appeared that somehow the building was hollowed out and let the plane just seamlessly melt into it. i agree, if the inside is hollowed out, the facade is easy enough to penetrate. that is if you can find a plane and fly it into the towers.

to that end - there is evidence of actual planes being present at all 3 locations, thus the perps had access to planes - fact. as such, crashing into the towers was an accomplishable task, done with relative ease and minimal investment, and even minimal complicity when compared to cgi'd fakery. add to that the fact that i've met 3 people who say they saw the plane, 1 whom i can count on as a worthwhile witness (due to the duration of their sighting), and for me at least there isnt any doubt that the 2nd crash was real. yes, visually the crash seems impossible, but for me there is a more plausible explanation than video fakery.


regarding the nose out, what's less debateable (imo), is that what you see is an explosion. is it the shape of a cabin/cockpit? to me yes. is it an actual cabin/cockpit, i actually used to think so, but now i dont. i believe it matches the shape of one but it is an explosion - massive pressure expanding in a rapid pace. had the plane met with anything inside, then out of the opposite end of the tower fuel should spray out, partially impeded by glass, and that fuel would likely ignite into a muted fireball. but the cockpit shaped explosion should not be there if the plane broke up due to impacting elements inside the building. the nose out fits with the idea that the plane was in more or less the same shape inside as it was out, that is until it was exploded, which happened pretty late. the nose of the plane managed to almost pop out the other side, which would prove something was wrong inside the towers (lots of shit was missing that should have changed the shape of not only the cockpit but the fireball).


re: mary jane booth: i dont believe she was married to anyone related to 9/11. she was an AA employee who worked at dulles for decades, and on 9/11 she was allegedly headed to a "credit union employees" gathering in las vegas. the reason i brought her up is that for me there was always the question of did a plane actually get boarded that day at dulles? nevermind who all was on it, but was there any witness account to establish (or at least suggest) that a plane existed and was boarded? then i happened to read about Tim Bateman and the fbi having grilled him. he is reported as having physically boarded mj booth on to a plane (aa77 allegedly). looking for more info about his account i found a random post at an audio forum where bateman's ex-roommate recounts what bateman had told him when he finally got home that day. to me the post sounds credible, and credibly corroborates the allegation that bateman indeed walked mj booth on to a plane and said goodbye to her and presumably the doors to that plane were shut and bateman walked away. so i cite his account as evidence that indeed a plane existed and this lady who for all intents and purposes is not around anymore (at dulles at least), is gone. of course i readily admit i never met mj booth in person ever, and sure, the entire tale could be made up, back story at an audio forum and all. we all have our bs detectors and for me, the above stated events are facts. the lady existed, this guy saw her board, and she's no longer around...

anyway, booth wasnt really related to this topic, i only brought her up as a footnote for when i asserted the possibility of the existence of a "boarded" plane. mind you, in a way im forced to mention it because many who believe in fakery of video, also believe in the simulation of human entities as well. and to them when someone like me speaks in such sure terms about real victims, then im either a shill or a not-yet enlightened blind man who hasnt discovered the real truth. likely my beliefs about the realness of planes probably earns the same suspicion or pity by fakery believers, but what can one do? what really is the point? ive honestly tired of the debate, and dont even know why im typing. everyone's beliefs are so strong, yet their competence so varying, its seems we will always be divided on this side of the fence. the crooks did it, got away with it, and are working from the behind the curtain as they always have. the main facilitators, bush cheney and company are (mostly) gone but the hidden hand operates still. the republic got hijacked, lines were drawn globally, blood spilled and continues to spill, at home in the cozy usa and abroad in the not so comfy rest of the world... and here we sit arguing about bullshit like "nose outs". bleh...
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Tamborine man
post Mar 2 2014, 05:21 AM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Feb 27 2014, 04:33 PM) *
TM - im not sure i understand what you mean about the lights - why would they have to stop working?


Thank you very much for the clarification paranoia, and for your post of course.
Very informative and some very good points to think about!

Will come back later with a few comments.

Cheers
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Tamborine man
post Mar 4 2014, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Feb 27 2014, 04:33 PM) *
TM - im not sure i understand what you mean about the lights - why would they have to stop working? ....


I speculated that you thought that both the floors and the trusses were removed from the floors,
so therefore no place to hang the ceiling lights! (It was not really that seriously meant anyway)!
More seriously though:

QUOTE
....my guess is that the floors were rigged along entire horizontal lengths with low explosives, this above ceiling tiles but below the floor of the next story above. the coming undone ("pulverization") of the concrete floors was part of the full collapse sequence. ....


Your above 'guess' could definitely have some (much!) merit to it, and certainly not to be 'sneezed' at.

QUOTE
....i do not subscribe to the theory that the towers were empty or "hollow", though i would not object to the suspicion of there being unoccupied spaces in the towers that were supposed to be filled by commercial tenants. ....


That was probably the answer i was "fishing" for in the first place, so thanks for that clarification.


QUOTE
....i believe the reason for this preimpact demo is to make certain that the plane does FULLY penetrate and none of it, ....


Unfortunately, i don't share your view re. plane impact. I think 9/11 was 'created' in the year
1911 as part of a broader scenario. Later, somebody picked up this 'astral creation', ran with
it and passed it on. Through 'some' in the Reagan administration it later developed to become
part of the PNAC "manifesto" in 1997, (although not mentioned by that 'name' in the document,
of course). The rest, as they say, is 'physical' history.

QUOTE
re: mary jane booth: i dont believe she was married to anyone related to 9/11.


You're right of course.
"Assumed" you were talking about Lady Evelyn Booth, the woman Ted Olson married after
his wife Barbara Olson allegedly died in the alleged crash.
Should have checked her name before commenting. me lazy ....& bad!

Cheers
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