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Military And Citizen Ethics, US Constitution, Merged with "A Real Lesson on Your Civil Liberties and Govt."

post Oct 1 2007, 03:11 PM
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Civil Liberties
Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to
the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were
an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or promulgated, that
threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil.
The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be
willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government. – Dr.
Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991
Bush is in place for only one purpose: to get the American people to give up the last of their few
remaining rights.
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is
– Thomas Jefferson
Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its powers, but the truth is ... the
Fed (Federal Reserve System) has usurped the government. It controls everything here (congress) and it
controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will. – Louis McFadden, ex-
Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency
The course of history shows as a government grows, liberty decreases. – Thomas Jefferson
In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way. – FDR
Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take away everything you have.
– Thomas Jefferson
Government is at best a petulant servant and at worst a tyrannical master. – George Washington
Unfortunately, many people think the 'American Government' are the terrorists. There is NO American
Government and hasn't been in scores of years. To what they refer is USG, the belligerent, foreign
corporation masquerading as 'the American Government'. It has named itself The Government of the United
States of America for the sole purpose of conning the American people into believing that it represents them
and that it is its government. The USG, a private, fictitious, for-profit corporation, has no more to do with the
American people or the American territory than does SEARS, another private, fictitious, for-profit
corporation. 'Americans', which includes those of us in Canada, have long been subjected to the terrorism of
the corporations USG and Government of Canada. No one alive today has experienced a representative
government – which brings us to another point: why would anyone vote in a foreign election for a foreign
corporation? There is no one for whom to vote who could possibly represent us. Our country has been
under siege for so long I wonder if we will ever get it back.
Gouvernement – Canada
The Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not apply to Canadians. Remember the four
elements of a valid legal contract: 1) full disclosure, 2) equal consideration, 3) lawful terms and conditions, 4)
signatures of all parties. Is your signature on it? No, you are not a party to it. Since CANADA is a
corporation, the Charter is precisely that – a charter for a LLC (limited liability corporation) not a contract
involving you because corporations can't contract; only living souls can contract.
The Constitution is a body of law, written by the state, in order to control the government. The CAG is
controlled by a belligerent, foreign, fictional corporation called the Anglican Church, and known as the
British Crown. 'Their' Constitution does not apply to the people of the land mass known as Canada. It
applies, just as every other code, rule, regulation, ordinance, and statute applies, only to the Crown's
employees – namely the federal and provincial governments and all their employees – and to anyone who
chooses to volunteer. See 'application of charter' in Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
32. (1)This Charter applies:
a) to the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament
including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and
B) to the legislature and government of each province in respect of all matters within the authority of the
legislature of each province.
As none of us signed this contract it doesn't apply to us. Our 'charter rights' are violated with impunity
by the privately-owned Anglican Church legal system franchise known as the BAR Association via the
Vatican and British Crown.
There is a difference between the CAG and the USG: the feds in Canada not only call themselves 'civil
servants' but also believe – maybe, they truly are the servants of the people and hence it is easier for them to

understand that the Canadian people truly are sovereign – maybe. Even though Americans are more
inherently sovereign than Canadians, the feds in the US are nowhere near as likely to admit it.
Government – America
There were only 4 purposes of government:
1) to provide a military to protect the American Republics;
2) to monitor commerce/trade among the Republics;
3) to maintain the overall welfare for ALL (not just certain groups or individuals);
4) to govern international commerce of the union.
The Bill of Rights dictates the limitations of government. The people of the united States of America
never had 'Constitutional Rights', they had a government with limitations in order to preserve their 'natural'
rights. Alas, no more.
Socialism: gov't controls publicly owned utilities (railroads, post, communications, etc.)
Fascism: the people 'own' but the gov't controls everything.
Communism: gov't owns and controls ALL productivity;
Since the name on the deed for your house is a government-created NAME, the government owns your
house. You'll notice that this set-up falls into the last definition: Communism
The sole objective of the Global Elite is to create an Economic Slave Force – "an economic system
owned by the workers and controlled by the state, economic growth and planning controlled by a central
authority, corporations and their stocks regulated by the gov't, private FRB controlling interest rates and
income tax, and political control by an authoritative party" – FDR.
They must distract the people with inane subjects, like sports, politics (thinking there is any difference
among party leaders), via TV, so that they don't notice what's really going on.
The first plank of the communist manifesto is: abolition of private property. The agenda of the Global
Elite is to steal land, control families, education, religion, implement a central private bank, promote immoral
behaviour, and eliminate countries and nationalities. DONE!
The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes. – Supreme
Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952

I am concerned for the security of our great nation, not so much because of any threat from without,
but because of the insidious forces working from within. — General Douglas MacArthur
Book link! GREAT READ for every human!

This post has been edited by dMole: Oct 4 2008, 04:24 PM
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post Sep 14 2008, 12:29 PM
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[Edit by d: Original post of "Military and Citizen Ethics- that 'old fashioned; Constitution, too" before merge]
Sorry jo,

I'm gonna rip this one off- it is arguably THE MOST DESERVING of its own thread anywhere.

Stolen from jo56's post #4 at:

"Doesn't the military have an ethical code of conduct? Where would these types of weapons fit into that code of conduct, or do they at all? Has the mission of our military been totally bastardized by people who have another agenda?

The Oath that soldiers take when they enlist in the service of their country is as follows:


This oath, to me, gives a soldier permission to NOT follow the lead of their commanders if they're being told to do something that is contrary to their oath. Is this not right?

The whole argument I present is that our military is failing to adhere to their OATH, just like our President and leaders have failed to adhere to THEIR OATH OF OFFICE.

The use of these type of weapons, and going into wars for purposes other than what they tell us and in a preemptive manner IS FLAT WRONG! It serves the purpose of some other power, NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE UNITED STATES!
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post Sep 14 2008, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 12 2008, 02:29 PM) *


This oath, to me, gives a soldier permission to NOT follow the lead of their commanders if they're being told to do something that is contrary to their oath. Is this not right?

The whole argument I present is that our military is failing to adhere to their OATH, just like our President and leaders have failed to adhere to THEIR OATH OF OFFICE.

The use of these type of weapons, and going into wars for purposes other than what they tell us and in a preemptive manner IS FLAT WRONG! It serves the purpose of some other power, NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE UNITED STATES!

I agree, but:

excuse me for thinking that this has been patently obvious all along but then who am I? Only some poor Limey who knows zilch about US law!

Hang on a minute though, I must do for I have made three statement in my sig' that indicate just that.

One problem as I see it is that now there are mercenary armies in place, in the US and abroad, who owe allegiance to no such oath and who are increasingly supplanting those who do.

Also there is deniability on the grounds of commercial confidentiality.

Prince et. al. should be pulled in and jailed for conducting crimes against humanity.
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post Sep 14 2008, 02:07 PM
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Good idea, dMole! This needs to be discussed.

You are right, Omega! We now have a Mercenary, Private Corp Military that acts lawless and according to their own rules, WITH ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY. This is what I mean by the bastardization of the US Military. THEY NO LONGER REPRESENT THE TRUE UNITED STATES, but the elite and their agenda!

So, back to the Oath. The REAL SOLDIERS in our military took this oath, and they owe their allegiance to the Constitution and the REAL AMERICA, not this TAKEOVER REGIME of lawless and rogue leaders. When good men, follow evil and rogue leaders, they become complicit with those rogue leaders. This is when they must decide who they will follow!

How can an honest SOLDIER abide by the rules of a DISHONEST AND ROGUE COMMANDER who also doesn't understand what his real duty is to this country. The rules should change when ROGUE LEADERS HIJACK THE SYSTEM.

I agree about Blackwater and Prince. Where does this man's real loyalty lie? Apparently not where it should!

Just like those who are being LOYAL to Bush (a rogue leader who has broken the rules and glorified himself) should change their positions, these soldiers need to rethink what this war is really about (especially since lies were told about why we went there).

I don't think any American should be loyal to ANY LEADER who usurps his authority over that of the US Constitution for the benefit of a FEW ELITES WHO OPERATE BEHIND THE SHADOWS!

P.S. I don't think the US Constitution is "old-fashioned", btw. The problem is our supposed leaders haven't taken it to heart even though they all take the oath of office saying they will protect and defend the US Constitution. Their loyalty is with PEOPLE (or a Person such as a President who himself is very fallable as we've witnessed over and over again these past 8 yrs) rather than to their country and the Constitution. This must change!

This post has been edited by jo56: Sep 14 2008, 02:26 PM
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post Sep 14 2008, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (jo56 @ Sep 14 2008, 12:07 PM) *
I agree about Blackwater and Prince. Where does this man's real loyalty lie? Apparently not where it should!

Hi jo,

It might be quicker to ask Sanders where Erik Prince's royalty lies... wink.gif

P.S. I've asked this one before, but whassup with all that gold fringy sh*t around the U.S. flag? 'Taint red, white, or blue...
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post Sep 14 2008, 02:29 PM
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Oh yes, I've seen Sanders writings about Prince, and have followed him a bit myself. Sounds like a place that old intel ends up after retirement, and a place where kids go who have no other future. Seems like the perfect place to indoctrinate kids into your thinking (or Prince's thinking).

Apparently there are many who claim to be ROYALTY, but are they really? or are they really about their own AGENDA?

This post has been edited by jo56: Sep 14 2008, 02:30 PM
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post Oct 4 2008, 01:11 AM
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Related thread on Jefferson/Adams Letters is at:

Constitution page at:

Basic Principles

Founding Documents

Abuses and Usurpations

"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
— Frederick Douglass, civil rights activist, Aug. 4, 1857

Any power that can be abused will be abused.
— Tyranny Law #1

Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it.
— Tyranny Law #2

If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail.
— Tyranny Law #3
The Federalist Papers



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post Oct 4 2008, 02:47 PM
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Fascism (in Italian, fascismo), capitalized, refers to the right-wing authoritarian political movement which ruled Italy 1922-1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. The name comes from fascio, which may mean, "bundle," as in a political or militant group or a nation, but also from the fasces (rods bundled around an axe), which were an ancient Roman symbol of the authority of magistrates. The Italian 'Fascisti' were also known as Black Shirts for their style of uniform incorporating a black shirt (see; Political Colours).

In an article in the 1932 Enciclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, fascism is described as a system in which "The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad. ...For the Fascist, everything is within the State and ... neither individuals or groups are outside the State. ...For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative."

Mussolini in a speech delivered on October 28, 1925 delivered the following maxim which encapsulates the fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato," "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State".

The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that exalts nation and often race above the individual, and uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, engages in severe economic and social regimentation, and espouses nationalism and sometimes racism (ethnic nationalism).

Nazism is usually considered as a kind of fascism, but it should be understood that Nazism sought the state's purpose in serving an ideal to valuing what its content should be: its people, race, and the social engineering of these aspects of culture to the ends of the greatest possible prosperity for them at the expense of all else. In contrast, Mussolini's fascism held to the ideology that all of these factors existed to serve the state and that it wasn't necessarily in the state's interest to serve or engineer any of these particulars within its sphere as any priority. The only purpose of the government under fascism proper was to value itself as the highest priority to its culture in just being the state in itself, the larger scope of which, the better, and for these reasons it can be said to have been a governmental statolatry. While Nazism was a metapolitical ideology, seeing itself only as a utility by which an allegorical condition of its people was its goal, fascism was a squarely anti-socialist form of statism that existed by virtue and as an ends in and of itself. The Nazi movement spoke of class based society as the enemy and wanted to unify the racial element above established classes, whereas the Fascist movement sought to preserve the class system and uphold it as the foundation of established and progressive culture. This underlying theorem made the contemporary Fascists and Nazis see themselves and their respective political labels as at least partially exclusive to one another. Today however this difference is not made often in terminology, even when used historically. That is due mostly because both politics have ceased to be a society driven ideology of their own anywhere in the world today. Outside of their internal reasoning their own opposing ideas have no part to play and could even be said to be arbitrarily alien to the liberal states currently dealing in defining political concerns.

As a political science, the philosophical pretext to the literal fascism of the historical Italian type believes the state's nature is superior to that of the sum of the individual's comprising it, and that they exist for the state rather than the state existing to serve them. The resources individuals provide from participating in the community are conceived as a productive duty of individual progress serving an entity greater than the sum of its parts. Therefore all individual's business is the state's business, the state's existence is the sole duty of the individual. In its Corporativist model of totalitarian but private management the various functions of the state were trades conceived as individualized entities making that state, and that it is in the state's interest to oversee them for that reason, but not direct them or make them public by the rationale that such functioning in government hands undermines the development of what the state is. Private activity is in a sense contracted to the state so that the state may suspend the infrastructure of any entity in accord to their usefulness and direction, or health to the state.

The social composition of Fascist movements have historically been small capitalists, low-level bureaucrats and the middle classes. Fascism also met with great success in rural areas, especially among farmers, peasants, and in the city, the lumpenproletariat. A key feature of fascism is that it uses it's mass movement to attack the organizations of the working class - parties of the left and trades unions.

Unlike the pre–World War II period, when many groups openly and proudly proclaimed themselves fascist, in the post–World War II period the term has taken on an extremely pejorative meaning, largely in reaction to the crimes against humanity undertaken by the Nazis. Today, very few groups proclaim themselves as fascist, and the term almost universally is used for groups for whom the speaker has little regard, often with minimal understanding of what the term actually means. The term "fascist" or "Nazi" is often ascribed to individuals or groups who are perceived to behave in an authoritarian manner; by silencing opposition, judging personal behavior, or otherwise attempting to concentrate power. More particularly, "Fascist" is sometimes used by people of the Left to characterize some group or persons of the far-right or neo-far-right, or the far left activists as a description of any political or cultural influences perceived as "non-progressive," or merely not sufficiently progressive. This usage receded much following the 1970s, but has enjoyed a strong resurgence in connection with Anti-globalization activism.

Fascism, in many respects, is an ideology of negativism: anti-liberal, anti-Communist, anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, etc. As a political and economic system in Italy, it combined elements of corporatism, totalitarianism, nationalism, and anti-communism.

The Origin and Ideology of Fascism
In the 1920s, Sergio Panunzio was the major theoretician of Fascism.

The Doctrine of Fascism was written by Giovanni Gentile an idealist philosopher and who served as its official philosopher. Mussolini signed the article and it was officially attributed to him. In it, Frenchmen Georges Sorel, Charles Peguy, and Hubert Lagardelle were invoked as the sources of fascism. Sorel's ideas concerning syndicalism and violence are much in evidence in this document. It also quotes from the Frenchman Joseph Renan who it says had "prefascist intuitions". Both Sorel and Peguy were influenced by the Frenchman Henri Bergson. Bergson rejected the scientism, mechanical evolution and materialism of Marxist ideology. Also, Bergson promoted an elan vital as an evolutionary process. Both of these elements of Bergson appear in fascism. Mussolini states that fascism negates the doctrine of scientific and Marxian socialism and the doctrine of historic materialism. Hubert Lagardelle, an authoritative syndicalist writer, was influenced by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, who is the inspirer of anarchosyndicalism.

There were several strains of tradition influencing Mussolini. The fascist concept of corporatism and particularly its theories of class collaboration and economic and social relations are very similar to the model laid out by Pope Leo XII's 1892 encyclical Rerum Novarum which addressed politics as it had been transformed by the Industrial Revolution and other changes in society that had occurred during the nineteenth century. The document criticized capitalism, complaining of the exploitation of the masses in industry. However, it also sharply criticized the socialist's concept of class struggle, and their proposed solution to eliminate private property. It called for strong governments to undertake a mission to protect their people from exploitation, and asked Roman Catholics to apply principles of social justice in their own lives.

Seeking to find some principle to replace the Marxist doctrine of class struggle, Rerum Novarum urged social solidarity between the upper and lower classes, and endorsed nationalism as a way of preserving traditional morality, customs, and folkways. In doing so, Rerum Novarum proposed a kind of corporatism, the organization of political societies along industrial lines that resembled mediaeval guilds. A one-person, one-vote democracy was rejected in favor of representation by interest groups. This idea was to counteract the "subversive nature" of the doctrine of Karl Marx.

The themes and ideas developed in Rerum Novarum can also be found in the ideology of fascism as developed by Mussolini.

Fascism also borrowed from Gabriele D'Annunzio's constitution for his ephemeral "regency" in Fiume. Syndicalism had an influence on fascism as well particularly as some syndicalists intersected with D'Annunzio's ideas. Before the First World War, syndicalism had stood for a militant doctrine of working-class revolution. It distinguished itself from Marxism because it insisted that the best route for the working class to liberate itself was the trade union rather than the party. The Italian Socialist Party ejected the syndicalists in 1908. The syndicalist movement split between anarcho-syndicalists and a more moderate tendency. Some moderates began to advocate "mixed syndicates" of workers and employers. In this practice, they absorbed the teachings of Catholic theorists and expanded them to greater power of the state and diverted them by the influence of D'Annunzio to nationalist ends.

When Henri De Man's Italian translation of Au-dela du marxisme emerged, Mussolini was excited and wrote the author that his criticism destroyed any "scientific" element left in Marxism. Mussolini was appreciative of the idea that a corporative organization and a new relationship between labor and capital would eliminate 'the clash of economic interests" and thereby neutralise "the germ of class warfare.'"

Renegade socialist thinkers, Robert Michels, Sergio Panunzio, Ottavio Dinale, Agostino Lanzillo, Angelo Oliviero Olivetti, Michele Bianchi, and Edmondo Rossoni furthered this attempt to reconcile socialism and nationalism. .

Italian fascism
Mussolini founded the fascist movement on March 23, 1919 at a meeting in Milan's Piazza San Sepolcro. Among the founding members were the revolutionary syndicalist leaders Agostino Lanzillo and Michele Bianchi.

In 1921, the fascists developed a program that called for a republic, separation of church and state, a national army, as well as progressive taxation for inherited wealth and development of co-operatives.

Mussolini's fascist state was established nearly a decade before Hitler's rise to power. Both a movement and a historical phenomenon, Italian Fascism was, in many respects, an adverse reaction to both the apparent failure of laissez-faire and fear of the left, although trends in intellectual history, such as the breakdown of positivism and the general fatalism of postwar Europe should be of concern.

Fascism was, to an extent, a product of a general feeling of anxiety and fear among the middle class of postwar Italy arising because of a convergence of interrelated economic, political, and cultural pressures. Under the banner of this authoritarian and nationalistic ideology, Mussolini was able to exploit fears regarding the survival of capitalism in an era in which postwar depression, the rise of a more militant left, and a feeling of national shame and humiliation stemming from Italy's 'mutilated victory' at the hands of the World War I postwar peace treaties seemed to converge. Such unfulfilled nationalistic aspirations tainted the reputation of liberalism and constitutionalism among many sectors of the Italian population. In addition, such democratic institutions had never grown to become firmly rooted in the young nation-state.

As the same postwar depression heightened the allure of Marxism among an urban proletariat even more disenfranchised than their continental counterparts, fear regarding the growing strength of trade unionism, Communism, and socialism proliferated among the elite and the middle class. In a way, Benito Mussolini filled a political vacuum. Fascism emerged as a "third way" — as Italy's last hope to avoid imminent collapse of the 'weak' Italian liberalism, and Communist revolution. While failing to outline a coherent program, it evolved into new political and economic system that combined corporatism, totalitarianism, nationalism, and anti-Communism in a state designed to bind all classes together under a capitalist system, but a new capitalist system in which the state seized control of the organization of vital industries. Under the banners of nationalism and state power, Fascism seemed to synthesize the glorious Roman past with a futuristic utopia.

The appeal of this movement, the promise of a more orderly capitalism during an era of interwar depression, however, was not isolated to Italy, or even Europe. For example, a decade later, as the Great Depression led to a sharp economic downturn of the Brazilian economy, a sort of quasi-fascism would emerge there that would react to Brazil's own socio-economic problems and nationalistic consciousness of its peripheral status in the global economy. The regime of Getulio Vargas adopted extensive fascist influence and entered into an alliance with Integralism, Brazil's local fascist movement.

Founded as a nationalist association (the Fasci di Combattimento) of World War I veterans in Milan on March 23, 1919, Mussolini's fascist movement converted itself into a national party (the Partito Nazionale Fascista) after winning 35 seats in the parliamentary elections of May 1921. Initially combining ideological elements of left and right, it aligned itself with the forces of conservatism by its opposition to the September 1920 factory occupations.

Despite the themes of social and economic reform in the initial Fascist manifesto of June 1919, the movement came to be supported by sections of the middle class fearful of socialism and communism, while industrialists and landowners saw it as a defence against labour militancy. Under threat of a fascist "March on Rome," Mussolini in October 1922 assumed the premiership of a right-wing coalition Cabinet initially including members of the pro-church People's Party.

The transition to outright dictatorship was more gradual than in Germany a decade later, though in July 1923 a new electoral law all but assured a Fascist parliamentary majority, and the murder of the Socialist deputy Giacomo Matteotti eleven months later showed the limits of political opposition. By 1926 opposition movements had been outlawed, and in 1928 election to parliament was restricted to fascist-approved candidates.

The regime's most lasting political achievement was perhaps the Lateran Treaty of February 1929 between the Italian state and the Holy See, by which the Papacy was granted temporal sovereignty over the Vatican City and guaranteed the free exercise of Catholicism as the sole state religion throughout Italy in return for its acceptance of Italian sovereignty over the Pope's former dominions.

Trade unions and employers' associations were reorganized by 1934 into 22 fascist corporations combining workers and employers by economic sector, whose representatives in 1938 replaced the parliament as the "Chamber of Corporations": power continued to be vested in the Fascist Grand Council, the ruling body of the movement.

The 1930s saw some economic achievements as Italy recovered from the Great Depression: the draining of the malaria-infested Pontine Marshes south of Rome was one of the regime's proudest boasts. But international sanctions following Italy's invasion (October 1935) of Ethiopia (the Abyssinia crisis), followed by the government's costly military support for Franco's Nationalists in Spain, undermined growth despite successes in developing domestic substitutes for imports (Autarchia).

International isolation and their common involvement in Spain brought about increasing diplomatic collaboration between Italy and Nazi Germany, reflected also in the fascist regime's domestic policies as the first anti-semitic laws were passed in 1938. But Italy's intervention (June 10th 1940) as Germany's ally in World War II brought military disaster, from the loss of her north and east African colonies to U.S. and British invasion of first Sicily (July 1943) and then southern Italy (September 1943).

Dismissed as prime minister by King Victor Emmanuel III on July 25th 1943, and subsequently arrested, Mussolini was freed in September by German paratroopers and installed as head of a puppet "Italian Social Republic" at Salo in German-occupied northern Italy. His association with the German occupation regime eroded much of what little support remained to him, and his summary execution (April 28th 1945) by northern partisans was widely seen as a fitting end against the backdrop of the war's violent closing stages.

After the war, the remnants of Italian fascism largely regrouped under the banner of the neo-Fascist "Italian Social Movement" (MSI), merging in 1994 with conservative former Christian Democrats to form the "National Alliance" (AN), which proclaims its commitment to constitutionalism, parliamentary government and political pluralism.

Fascism vs. socialism
Fascism developed in opposition to socialism and communism although many early Fascists were themselves former Marxists. Thus, in 1923 Mussolini declared, in Doctrine of Fascism?:

...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of ... Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production....

Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

..."The maxim that society exists only for the well-being and freedom of the individuals composing it does not seem to be in conformity with nature's plans." "If classical liberalism spells individualism," Mussolini continued, "Fascism spells government."
--Benito Mussolini, from The Internet Modern History Sourcebook

While certain types of socialism may superficially appear to be similar to fascism, it should be noted that the two ideologies clash violently on many issues. The role of the state, for example: Socialism considers the state to be merely a "tool of the people," sometimes calling it a "necessary evil," which exists to serve the interests of the people and to protect the common good (in addition, certain forms of libertarian socialism reject the state altogether). Meanwhile, fascism holds the state to be an end in of itself, which the people should obey and serve (rather than the other way around).

Fascism rejects the central tenets of Marxism which are class struggle and the need to replace capitalism with a society run by the working class in which the workers own the means of production.

A fascist government is usually characterized as "extreme right-wing," and a socialist government as "left-wing". Others such as Hannah Arendt and Friedrich Hayek argue that the differences between fascism and totalitarian forms of socialism are more superficial than actual, since those self-proclaimed "socialist" governments did not live up to their claims of serving the people and respecting democratic principles. Many socialists and communists also reject those totalitarian governments, seeing them as fascism with a socialist mask.

Italian fascist leader Mussolini's own origins on the left, as a leader of the more radical wing of the Italian Socialist Party, has frequently been noted. After his turn to the right, Mussolini continued to employ much of the rhetoric of socialism, but substituting the nation for social class as the basis of political loyalty. Many other fascist leaders, including Sir Oswald Mosley in Britain and Jacques Doriot and Marcel Dιat in France, also began their careers on the political left before turning to fascism.

Socialists and other critics of Arendt and Hayek maintain that there is no ideological overlap between Fascism and Marxism; they regard the two as utterly distinct. Since Marxism is the ideological basis of Communism, they argue that the comparisons drawn by Arendt and others are invalid.

Mussolini completely rejected the Marxist concept of class struggle or the Marxist thesis that the working class must expropriate the means of production.

Mussolini wrote in his 1932 treatise, The Doctrine of Fascism (ghostwritten by Giovanni Gentile): "Outside the State there can be neither individuals nor groups (political parties, associations, syndicates, classes). Therefore Fascism is opposed to Socialism, which confines the movement of history within the class struggle and ignores the unity of classes established in one economic and moral reality in the State." Source

Fascist Italy did not nationalize any industries or capitalist entities. Rather it established a corporatist structure influenced by the model for class relations put forward by the Catholic Church. Indeed, there is a lot of literature on the influence of Catholicism on fascism and the links between the clergy and fascist parties in Europe before and during World War II.

Critics point out that Marxists and trade unionists were the first targets, and the first victims of Adolf Hitler once he came to power. Also to the antagonistic relationship which resulted in street fights between fascists and socialists, including Trotskyists and members of the Communist Party of Great Britain, in London in the form of the 1936 Battle of Cable Street as well as street fights in Germany prior to Hitler's coming to power. A more serious manifestation of the conflict between fascism and socialism was the Spanish Civil War mentioned earlier in this article.

Although Italian fascism proclaimed its to socialism, Mussolini's own history in the socialist movement had some influence on him. Elements of the practice of socialist movements he retained were the need for a mass party; the importance of building support among the working class; and techniques relating to the dissemination of ideas, such as the use of propaganda. The original Fascist Manifesto contained within it a number of proposals for reforms that were also common among socialist movements and were designed to appeal to the working class though these promises were generally disregarded once the fascists took power.

Fascism and other totalitarian regimes
Some historians and theorists regard fascism and "Soviet" Communism or more specifically Stalinism as being similar lumping them together under the term "totalitarianism". Others see them as being so dissimilar as to be utterly incomparable.

Hannah Arendt and other theorists of totalitarian rule argue that there are similarities between nations under Fascist and Stalinist rule. They condemn both groups as dictatorships and totalitarian police states. For example, both Hitler and Stalin committed mass murder on millions of their country's civilians who did not fit in with their plans.

In 1947, Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises published a short book entitled "Planned Chaos". He asserted that fascism and Nazism were socialist dictatorships and that both had been committed to the Soviet principle of dictatorship and violent oppression of dissenters. He argued that Mussolini's major heresy from Marxist orthodoxy had been his strong endorsement of Italian entry into World War I on the Allied side as a means to "liberate" Italian-speaking areas under Austrian control in the Alps.

Aside from criticisms of co-thinkers of von Mises such as Hayek discussed in the previous section of this article, critics of von Mises' position point out that Marxists and trade unionists were the first targets, and the first victims of Adolf Hitler once he came to power. .

As well, Mussolini imprisoned Antonio Gramsci from 1926 until 1934 after Gramsci, a leader of the Italian Communist Party and leading Marxist intellectual, tried to create a common front among the left and workers to resist and overthrow fascism. Other Italian Communist leaders like Palmiro Togliatti went into exile and fought for the Republic in Spain.

The concept of dictatorship of the proletariat alluded to by Von Mises is not the same as the dictatorship concept employed by fascists. Dictatorship of the proletariat is supposed to mean workers democracy or dictatorship by the working class rather than dictatorship by the capitalist class. This concept had been distorted under Stalin to mean dictatorship by the General Secretary over the party and the working class but that means that Stalin deviated from Marx rather than that the Stalinist form of government is Marxist.

Instead, the fascist economic model of corporatism promoted class collaboration by attempting to bring classes together under the unity of the state.

However, the fact that fascist states, on the one hand, and the USSR and the Soviet bloc, on the other, were police states does not mean that their commonality is a product of socialism. While all one-party states can be said to be police states, there is no correlation between socialism and police states as all one-party capitalist states, such as the Republic of China under Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang or Afghanistan under the Taliban as well as monarchist police states such as Iran under the Shah have also been police states. Conversely, there have been multi-party socialist states that have not been police states.

Fascist Motto and Sayings
Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

Me ne frego, "I don't care," the Italian Fascist motto.

Libro e moschetto — fascista perfetto, "Book and musket — perfect Fascist."
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post Oct 4 2008, 04:10 PM
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Ahh, the good ol' days when a country could use its people as cannon fodder in the name of empirialism without all the window-dressing or having to sneak around hiring private mercenaries.

“Cannon Song”

(Kurt Weill/Bertolt Brecht/Marc Blitzstein)
Performed by Stan Ridgeway

John was all present and Jim was all there
And Georgie was up for promotion
Not that the Army gave a bugger who they were
When confronting some heathen commotion

The troops live under the cannon's thunder
From Sind to Cooch Behar
Moving from place to place
When they come face to face
With a different breed of fellow
Whose skin is black or yellow
they quick as winking chop them into beefsteak tartar

Johnny found his whiskey too warm
And Jimmy found the weather too balmy
But Georgie took them both by the arm and said,
"Don't ever disappoint the Army!"

The troops live under the cannon's thunder
From Sind to Cooch Behar
Moving from place to place
When they come face to face
With a different breed of fellow
Whose skin is black or yellow
they quick as winking chop them into beefsteak tartar

John is a write-off and Jimmy is dead
And Georgie was shot for looting
And young men's blood goes on being red
While the Army just goes on ahead recruiting

The troops live under the cannon's thunder
From Sind to Cooch Behar
Moving from place to place
When they come face to face
With a different breed of fellow
Whose skin is black or yellow
they quick as winking chop them into beefsteak tartar
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post Oct 10 2008, 07:37 PM
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I had forgotten that it was over in Lobby, but Rob had pinned an excellent related thread at:

The Most Wonderful Documents Ever Created, Declaration of Independence, Constitution
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post Oct 10 2008, 07:46 PM
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14 Points of Fascism


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post Oct 10 2008, 07:55 PM
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The 14 points of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media

Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Other links:


Project for the Old American Century's Examination of Bush Fascism

14 Points of fascism: The warning signs
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