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What If?, Flight # and passengers were ALL fictitious?

NP1Mike
post Oct 13 2014, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (SlackerSlayer @ Oct 13 2014, 02:19 AM) *
As to your links... I call them the 'sept clueless crowd'...
...Some planes parts are photographed on the ground still smoldering. The 'flat bed truck dropping off parts' excuse works except for those found on Top of the Bank next door.


Nope. The 'flat bed truck dropping off parts' doesn't even work.

Last year I wrote Jim Fetzer several e-mails in an attempt to get him to change his mind about several of his 9/11 theories (he is a big proponent of the 'flat bed truck dropping off parts' story and also the hologram theory).

When I pointed out the fact that the 'flat bed truck dropping off parts' video was recorded after WTC2 came down (dust all over the ground and on the engine at Murray St.) as irrefutable proof that it couldn't have been planted, he never wrote back again.

There are other videos and photos of the engine and street without any dust on them, proving that the engine was there before WTC2 came down.


But Fetzer is in love with Jack White (the undisputed king of all things visual) who told him that the engine was planted, so how could he be wrong? handsdown.gif
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NP1Mike
post Oct 14 2014, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Oct 11 2014, 09:17 PM) *
The past while I was thinking of the entire complex 9/11 puzzle and there are only two pieces that still don't fit yet for me; a couple of loose ends.

1. The hijackers
2. Passengers



More thoughts on 1. above.

“I was theorizing......ALL I KNOW, for a FACT, is that those "terrorists" COULD NOT have flown those aircraft, let alone, hit the targets like the aircraft did. I was trying to THINK of some way that they "disposed" of the passengers. IF, and I have trouble with this, the passengers really were all murdered, when and where did that occur? Knowing what I DO, about the performance abilities of the aircraft and the technology available at the time, it would have been a pretty simple deal to laser-guide the drones into the buildings. THAT much, I KNOW.”

Once again Ex, I am with you all the way in your thinking (above).


If I can focus once more on the ‘hijackers’; one of the loose ends that I haven’t been able to figure out.

Allow me to think this through out loud.

-We have the official story of the 19 hijackers doing the ‘deed’.
-We have the 19 ‘hijackers’ arriving in the U.S. between Jan 2000-mid 2001 and four of them taking various flight training courses leading up to 9/11.
-We have warnings picked up by various countries prior to 9/11 that something big and bad was brewing and about to occur early Sept. 2001.
-We have correspondence leaked in Sibel Edmonds’ “Classified Woman” book, between various parties talking about the planned 9/11 attack.
-We have Susan Lindauer a former CIA asset (who negotiated with Saddam Hussein after 9/11) who was warned several times by her handlers not to come to New York city in early September.
- etc. etc.

So we certainly have something tangible about ‘hijackers’ being ‘involved’ in the 9/11 mission.


Now contrast this with the actual operation that was set to take place on Sep 11, 2001.

-We have three WTC buildings wired for demolition (an essential part of the plot) and waiting for planes to penetrate two of them.
-We have the Pentagon wired with explosives.
-We have Shanksville prepped for a ‘plane crash’.
-We have lots of money riding on the ‘terrorist attacks’ in put/call options
-We have the $2.3 trillion that Rumsfeld and his buddies can divvy up after 9/11 since no one will bother with that after the deed has been done.
-We have the billions that Silverstein and his partners stand to gain after the towers are destroyed.
-etc., etc.

Now who in their right mind would sit back and hope that 19 Arab ‘terrorists’ will successfully be able to:
1. Show up on time for their ‘flights’.
2. Evade detection going through security scans
3. Successfully hijack their planes
4. Successfully commandeer their planes and fly them into their targets.
5. Successfully score direct hits at the precise location where the buildings have been prepped for penetration, something that the most skillfully trained and experienced pilots would have a difficult time doing.

One screw up in any of the above areas would basically render the operation a colossal failure.

The perps would never in a million years chance such a thing. Not after all the planning that went through for the mission. With trillions and trillions of dollars at stake for the military industrial complex in future wars. The new homeland ‘security’ departments just waiting to be set up. The ‘war on terror’ all set and ready to roll for the coming decades, etc.

So I’m left scratching my head connecting where exactly the 19 ‘hijackers’ enter the picture.

Were they driven to the airport by the perps to make sure they showed up on time for their flights?
What were they really instructed to do on the ‘flights’?
Were they or any of the passengers on any of the ‘flights’?
If not, where were the ‘hijackers’ and the ‘passengers’ stashed?
If the hijackers and passengers made it onto the planes, could their planes have been taken over by remote control before they could commandeer the plane?
Could they have been already in control of their planes and then lose total control by remote access?

What are your thoughts on this…connecting the 'hijacker involvement' dots?
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mainer
post Oct 14 2014, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Oct 13 2014, 04:46 PM) *
Truthis, BINGO!

mainer, for the good of Pilots for 9/11 Truth and the truth movement at large, you owe it to yourself to answer these questions.

I will repeat and summarize the key questions:

1. What is the name of your friend?
2. Does your friend's wife have any data to show when he bought ticket?
If he did indeed buy a ticket for the flight, then there would be records of this. Either his wife could dig
up records he/she kept of the transaction or she could contact the company who took part in the
transaction (airline/credit card company etc.).
3. Did your friend's wife receive anything from Victims Compensation Fund?
If not, could you ask her why she chose not to?

mainer, by taking very little initiative on your part, you have the power to crack open something that could provide some very telling information.

Please heed the call.


For some reason, TruthisSweet decided to start a separate thread, on which I answered all the questions I could:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22804

Not that that helps uncover anything. The issue of Flight 77 having not flown that day is something I was unaware of until recently, and I don't know how to answer that. Given the description in the F77 passengers page that TruthIsSweet referenced, I doubt that the wife had any knowledge of a flight number or whether it was scheduled. I could be wrong, but as I said in my answers, I didn't feel like dragging her through all that. If she were a Jersey Girl, she would have shown her colors already, and if she got compensation in exchange for a gag order, then she's gagged. One person's "little initiative" may be another person's extremely difficult big deal...
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NP1Mike
post Oct 15 2014, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (mainer @ Oct 14 2014, 09:03 PM) *
I didn't feel like dragging her through all that. If she were a Jersey Girl, she would have shown her colors already,


True, but whatever grieving she went through at the time should be pretty much cleared up by now.
There are thousands of family members and friends that we are 'letting off the hook' /not tapping into, who have information that could break 9/11 open.


QUOTE
and if she got compensation in exchange for a gag order, then she's gagged. One person's "little initiative" may be another person's extremely difficult big deal...



Exactly. The FBI/CIA/Homeland security et al. have got us by the balls.
The have been extremely effective in snuffing out any attempts to crack this case.
Witness all the mysterious deaths/suicides of those who came just a little too close to the truth for comfort.

This is why I am not optimistic about ever getting justice for the perps.
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NP1Mike
post Oct 15 2014, 02:19 PM
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What I was getting at in post #22 is that, to my mind, one of two scenarios took place wrt the ‘hijackers’.

Either they actually had in place a plan to hijack planes etc. but were intercepted at some point in time
by the perps and steered into doing what was inside the perps’ master plan.
A type of LIHOP + MIHOP.

Or…

more likely (seeing how the hijackers so easily obtained their U.S. visas), the hijackers were recruited by the perps outside the U.S. and brought into the U.S. to take part in the master plan.
A total MIHOP.

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SlackerSlayer
post Oct 18 2014, 04:59 AM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Oct 11 2014, 08:46 PM) *
mainer, for the good of Pilots for 9/11 Truth and the truth movement at large, you owe it to yourself to answer these questions.

Please heed the call.



Is one or two weeks a reasonable amount of time for their reply? Some people may only 'surf' once a week, so two for their sake. A chance to reply plus 1 more.

If there are no replies after two full weeks after your question, I'd label it a 'lie' in the attempt to shut up that line of questioning.
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NP1Mike
post Oct 19 2014, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (SlackerSlayer @ Oct 18 2014, 03:59 AM) *
Is one or two weeks a reasonable amount of time for their reply? Some people may only 'surf' once a week, so two for their sake. A chance to reply plus 1 more.

If there are no replies after two full weeks after your question, I'd label it a 'lie' in the attempt to shut up that line of questioning.


Slacker, another thread was started by Truthissweet on this subject.
In that thread Mainer did come back and answered those questions that he could.

1. What is the name of your friend? ANSWERED.

2. Does your friend's wife have any data to show when he bought ticket? NOT ANSWERED.
If he did indeed buy a ticket for the flight, then there would be records of this. Either his wife could dig
up records he/she kept of the transaction or she could contact the company who took part in the
transaction (airline/credit card company etc.).

3. Did your friend's wife receive anything from Victims Compensation Fund? ANSWERED, "I don't know."
If not, could you ask her why she chose not to?

Basically Mainer came back to tell us that the Caswell family loved to dance and that he wasn't prepared to ask Mrs. Caswell any questions.
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SlackerSlayer
post Oct 23 2014, 10:31 AM
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Thank you Mike. Somebody playing dodge ball, and changing courts at the same time.
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excontroller
post Nov 4 2014, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Oct 12 2014, 08:52 AM) *
I agree that perhaps the most perplexing part of the picture is that of the passengers. Certainly some are just characters in a play, perhaps just people with fake identities.

But there are some who seem to be different. Mainly those whose families actually did try to bring suit, but whose efforts were frustrated by the federal government, including the judiciary.

Most interesting is the case of Ellen Mariani who went the whole way, only to be rejected by the courts. On the surface, it appears her husband, supposedly booked on AA11, did die.



I believe the people whose families SAY SO, really did die. I just don't believe they were on the flights the families were TOLD. People, on some of their manifests, did die that day, but how, and where? THAT will probably remain a mystery. I also found it incredibly and PROFOUNDLY fortunate, that on that morning, SOMEBODY had their CAMERA trained on the perfect spot to catch the planes hitting the tower, especially the FIRST one. Lucky shot, hunh?
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excontroller
post Nov 4 2014, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Oct 14 2014, 07:29 PM) *
More thoughts on 1. above.

“I was theorizing......ALL I KNOW, for a FACT, is that those "terrorists" COULD NOT have flown those aircraft, let alone, hit the targets like the aircraft did. I was trying to THINK of some way that they "disposed" of the passengers. IF, and I have trouble with this, the passengers really were all murdered, when and where did that occur? Knowing what I DO, about the performance abilities of the aircraft and the technology available at the time, it would have been a pretty simple deal to laser-guide the drones into the buildings. THAT much, I KNOW.”

Once again Ex, I am with you all the way in your thinking (above).


If I can focus once more on the ‘hijackers’; one of the loose ends that I haven’t been able to figure out.

Allow me to think this through out loud.

-We have the official story of the 19 hijackers doing the ‘deed’.
-We have the 19 ‘hijackers’ arriving in the U.S. between Jan 2000-mid 2001 and four of them taking various flight training courses leading up to 9/11.
-We have warnings picked up by various countries prior to 9/11 that something big and bad was brewing and about to occur early Sept. 2001.
-We have correspondence leaked in Sibel Edmonds’ “Classified Woman” book, between various parties talking about the planned 9/11 attack.
-We have Susan Lindauer a former CIA asset (who negotiated with Saddam Hussein after 9/11) who was warned several times by her handlers not to come to New York city in early September.
- etc. etc.

So we certainly have something tangible about ‘hijackers’ being ‘involved’ in the 9/11 mission.


Now contrast this with the actual operation that was set to take place on Sep 11, 2001.

-We have three WTC buildings wired for demolition (an essential part of the plot) and waiting for planes to penetrate two of them.
-We have the Pentagon wired with explosives.
-We have Shanksville prepped for a ‘plane crash’.
-We have lots of money riding on the ‘terrorist attacks’ in put/call options
-We have the $2.3 trillion that Rumsfeld and his buddies can divvy up after 9/11 since no one will bother with that after the deed has been done.
-We have the billions that Silverstein and his partners stand to gain after the towers are destroyed.
-etc., etc.

Now who in their right mind would sit back and hope that 19 Arab ‘terrorists’ will successfully be able to:
1. Show up on time for their ‘flights’.
2. Evade detection going through security scans
3. Successfully hijack their planes
4. Successfully commandeer their planes and fly them into their targets.
5. Successfully score direct hits at the precise location where the buildings have been prepped for penetration, something that the most skillfully trained and experienced pilots would have a difficult time doing.

One screw up in any of the above areas would basically render the operation a colossal failure.

The perps would never in a million years chance such a thing. Not after all the planning that went through for the mission. With trillions and trillions of dollars at stake for the military industrial complex in future wars. The new homeland ‘security’ departments just waiting to be set up. The ‘war on terror’ all set and ready to roll for the coming decades, etc.

So I’m left scratching my head connecting where exactly the 19 ‘hijackers’ enter the picture.

Were they driven to the airport by the perps to make sure they showed up on time for their flights?
What were they really instructed to do on the ‘flights’?
Were they or any of the passengers on any of the ‘flights’?
If not, where were the ‘hijackers’ and the ‘passengers’ stashed?
If the hijackers and passengers made it onto the planes, could their planes have been taken over by remote control before they could commandeer the plane?
Could they have been already in control of their planes and then lose total control by remote access?

What are your thoughts on this…connecting the 'hijacker involvement' dots?



I firmly believe that the hijackers MOST possibly, were NOT on the flights. That they were simply photographed somewhere, and their names were apparently pulled out of a hat, because it was found several years after 9/11/01, that many of those names belonged to Arabs alive and well, in the middle east. I have come to feel very strongly that the aircraft in question, were ALL drones, with the lazer guided equipment necessary to make sure they hit the buildings, ensconced on the 23rd floor of WTC 7. THAT is why WTC 7 had to be destroyed. I have heard people of some intellect, call on Occams Razor, in an effort to quell the discussion of what really happened. IF you really look at Occams Razor, the official story requires a HELL of a LOT more assumptions that many of the so-called "conspiracy theories". Our discussions include a huge amount of real DATA to explain our positions. The data provided by the officials include ridiculous "facts" that bear NO resemblance to real scientific fact. It is so sad that so many tend to WANT desperately to believe them.
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NP1Mike
post Nov 6 2014, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE (excontroller @ Nov 4 2014, 10:07 PM) *
I firmly believe that the hijackers MOST possibly, were NOT on the flights. That they were simply photographed somewhere, and their names were apparently pulled out of a hat, because it was found several years after 9/11/01, that many of those names belonged to Arabs alive and well, in the middle east.


I agree.

However, no one has come forward with any possible explanation as to how the hijacker story was so widely disseminated around the world, prior to 9/11. I posed this question a couple of times in threads here. Many countries knew about the hijacking plot before 9/11.
Who was feeding the story? Were they insiders or outsiders?
It would make no sense if they were the insiders. Why would they want to publicize their plot ahead of time?

QUOTE
I have come to feel very strongly that the aircraft in question, were ALL drones, with the lazer guided equipment necessary to make sure they hit the buildings, ensconced on the 23rd floor of WTC 7. THAT is why WTC 7 had to be destroyed.


I agree again.

The towers had to be destroyed. That was the most important part of the 'mission'.
How could anyone possibly leave their destruction in the hands of amateurs?
No bullseye strikes of the towers, no controlled demolition. It's as simple as that.






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Truthissweet
post Nov 8 2014, 04:03 PM
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This is how 911 will end. It is all just a dream. "..Emily, you wouldn't believe it. I had this weird dream. Planes crashed into the WTCs. The Pentagon was hit. A plane crashed in PA. We went to war over it."
"Go back to sleep, Bob"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdUWXf8jJk
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NP1Mike
post Nov 8 2014, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Nov 8 2014, 03:03 PM) *
This is how 911 will end. It is all just a dream. "..Emily, you wouldn't believe it. I had this weird dream. Planes crashed into the WTCs. The Pentagon was hit. A plane crashed in PA. We went to war over it."
"Go back to sleep, Bob"


And this is probably how the air traffic controllers were operating on 9/11:
(pay close attention to the last couple of minutes)

Air traffic controller

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amazed!
post Nov 9 2014, 12:26 PM
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Mike

The hijacker story was essential to the central story, obviously, and for that reason it was disseminated prior to the actual event. Rumors beforehand can be very useful. They prepare the public perception for the story.
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Truthissweet
post Nov 9 2014, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Nov 9 2014, 11:26 AM) *
Mike

The hijacker story was essential to the central story, obviously, and for that reason it was disseminated prior to the actual event. Rumors beforehand can be very useful. They prepare the public perception for the story.


Plausible deniability. Perps used hijacker forewarning to show the public, hey, we are not perfect and the US NEEDS to spend much more to secure the borders. The perps could take the hit not being prepared. Just a side story to deflect the fact there were no hijackers. Nada, zip, nil. This is old news rehashed. Concentrate on the passengers. Fake and real, that is the key to break 911.

Not many people really died in 911. Certainly no hijackers.

This post has been edited by Truthissweet: Nov 9 2014, 01:47 PM
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amazed!
post Nov 14 2014, 10:57 AM
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I think that SOME persons listed as "passengers" did die that day, notably the husband of Ellen Mariani. And others, because their surviving family members went to great effort to bring suit. Those efforts were frustrated and defeated by the federal judiciary and other forces.

To me, this is one of the still unanswered questions regarding the story.
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Truthissweet
post Nov 14 2014, 01:10 PM
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Think again about Mariani.

http://911review.com/disinfo/lawsuits.html

"..........Berg's lawsuit, being a class action, could forever sabotage legal efforts to obtain justice. Valentine writes:

Berg wrote his Complaint as a class action lawsuit. (27) If the court certifies Berg's claim, he will represent all those who, like Mrs. Mariani, refused to participate in the government's 911 hush fund. If the suit fails, it will fail for Mrs. Mariani and all the others. If the suit is dismissed with prejudice, 9-11 plaintiffs will never be able to bring another suit for that cause of action against the defendants. Berg could ruin every plaintiff's potential case forever.

If, on the other hand, Mariani is awarded damages, the results will be the same: there will be no more 9-11 plaintiffs to bring suits and no more chance for honest discovery. The Mother of All Conspiracy Theories, the suicide pilot fable, will be set in stone......."
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NP1Mike
post Nov 14 2014, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Nov 9 2014, 11:26 AM) *
Mike

The hijacker story was essential to the central story, obviously, and for that reason it was disseminated prior to the actual event. Rumors beforehand can be very useful. They prepare the public perception for the story.



I agree the hijacker story was essential to the central story, however I don't see how disseminating/revealing your trump card before the actual event took place could be a smart thing. It's far too risky. If news of the impending attacks gained more momentum than actually occurred, it could have sabotaged the entire mission.

Therefore I don't buy your intended leak theory.
And the *general public* was never prepared for the story.

I would like to start a thread shortly that discusses all (planning etc.) that would have been necessary to prepare for the 9/11 events.
I think it would benefit us all. There were a myriad of tasks that had to be taken care of before the mission could be accomplished.

As good as the thread is here on who/how we would like to see the perps tried in court of law, I think a thread discussing the above would be much more of an eye-opener.

I think we could easily come up with a general consensus as to what was required at a bare minimum to make 9/11 a "success".



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Truthissweet
post Nov 14 2014, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Nov 14 2014, 02:35 PM) *
I agree the hijacker story was essential to the central story, however I don't see how disseminating/revealing your trump card before the actual event took place could be a smart thing. It's far too risky. If news of the impending attacks gained more momentum than actually occurred, it could have sabotaged the entire mission.

Therefore I don't buy your intended leak theory.
And the *general public* was never prepared for the story.

I would like to start a thread shortly that discusses all (planning etc.) that would have been necessary to prepare for the 9/11 events.
I think it would benefit us all. There were a myriad of tasks that had to be taken care of before the mission could be accomplished.

As good as the thread is here on who/how we would like to see the perps tried in court of law, I think a thread discussing the above would be much more of an eye-opener.

I think we could easily come up with a general consensus as to what was required at a bare minimum to make 9/11 a "success".


The perps had nothing to lose. If something did go wrong then all the 'hijackers' could be rounded up in the states before 9/11. It was an alternative just in case. Very brilliant by perps. Zachariah M. was 'taken in' as a trump card in case something went wrong. That is why old Zachary got paid big $$$. So did the other 'hijackers'. It is very obvious thru the benefit of time to see how this was planned, IMHO.
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NP1Mike
post Nov 14 2014, 11:30 PM
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QUOTE (Truthissweet @ Nov 14 2014, 02:54 PM) *
The perps had nothing to lose. If something did go wrong then all the 'hijackers' could be rounded up in the states before 9/11. It was an alternative just in case. Very brilliant by perps. Zachariah M. was 'taken in' as a trump card in case something went wrong. That is why old Zachary got paid big $$$. So did the other 'hijackers'. It is very obvious thru the benefit of time to see how this was planned, IMHO.


You're not understanding what I meant when I talked about starting a thread discussing the planning of 9/11.
I mean from the ground up, all the details, no stone left unturned.
ie. prepping the towers with explosives, prepping the towers where the strikes would take place,
headquarter location, getting the modified planes prepared and ready, liaisoning with the airline uppers etc. to establish what to do with the flights,
prepping the Pentagon with explosives, prepping the taxi scene at the Pentagon, selecting the 'passengers', dealing with the 'hijackers', liaisoning with selected media officials, liaisoning with New York City officials, DHLS/FBI/CIA damage control after 9/11, etc. etc. etc. etc. plus *a ton* of other things I haven't mentioned.

As far as the perps having nothing to lose. What are you talking about? You think that nothing could have gone wrong on 9/11?
That everything was a shoe-in?

With all the careful planning that went into 9/11 and all the trillions of dollars at stake, the perps could not afford to have botch ups.
The hijackers in the U.S. were their least of worries. They NEEDED the towers to come down, period!
There would have been no reason at all to deliberately leak what was to happen ahead of time to outsiders.

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