What If The New Baltimore Crash/debris Site..., Is a red herring? Options

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

If no one saw a plane get shot down, what if the shootdown is just another layer of disinfo? Ed Felt's call was faked and placed there to add another theory.

What if there were no planes and only a highly classified and rarely seen UAV with a remote detonator that flew over and set off the directional explosion that launched fiery debris into the trees?

The New Baltimore crash site was a diversion. The debris field was dropped from another plane. The C-130 was directed to the scene to sow confusion and place suspicion, but isn't seen by many people.

They are just giving us two false choices.

What do ya think Dom?

[woody]

Maybe the plane (Flight 93 or whatever) crossed New Baltimore and dropped some stuff without crashing? Remember, witnesses at the Northern debris field (north of Shanksville) also said that it looked like as if the plane had "lost" parts?

The NORAD tapes have phantom flight 93 located at one point at 39.51 N, 78.46 W. I checked the map, it is near Cacapon State Park in the Maryland "pan handle" between PA and WV. If you draw a line from Shanksville to this location, it runs over New Baltimore.

The 9/11 Commission states that Cleveland Center notified NEADS about Flight 93 the first time at 10:07, giving its "last known latitude and longitude". I suppose these are the coordinates, and they look pretty consistent.

[Wilbert]

The New Baltimore crash site was a diversion. The debris field was dropped from another plane. The C-130 was directed to the scene to sow confusion and place suspicion, but isn't seen by many people.

It's suspicious that there are no photos of that debris field, IF it exists.

[amazed!]

Yes a debris field could be easily generated.

Apparently there was also some papers strewn about, maybe letters or something, as though it was 1930 and some airmail flight had crashed.

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

If no one saw a plane get shot down, what if the shootdown is just another layer of disinfo? Ed Felt's call was faked and placed there to add another theory.

I haven't thoroughly interviewed all the witnesses yet so I can't speculate for sure no one saw it get shot down. I know there is a debris trail that is along the southeast flight path. Eyewitnesses in Indian Lake saw the plane falling apart in the sky. This is southeast of Shanksville. New Baltimore is southeast of Indian Lake.

I told you about New Baltimore being closed off and second hand accounts of certain events alleged to have taken place there. I drove there Tuesday there's like 3 roads that lead in and out and nothing but woods. They're 2nd hand accounts right now.

What if there were no planes and only a highly classified and rarely seen UAV with a remote detonator that flew over and set off the directional explosion that launched fiery debris into the trees?

I know there were 3 planes for sure. The UAV and 2 fighter jets. I am just now focusing my attention onto the 757 witnesses. We'll see how they all pan out. Purbaugh touts the official story but believes the plane had a black belly and swears it wasn't flying upside down. What is the flight path of this plane according to Purbaugh? That's what I want to ask him.

But there was definitely 3. At least.

The New Baltimore crash site was a diversion. The debris field was dropped from another plane. The C-130 was directed to the scene to sow confusion and place suspicion, but isn't seen by many people.

They are just giving us two false choices.

What do ya think Dom?

The Shanksville crash site is the diversion. I haven't met anyone who saw a C130 yet. I have had someone who was in the place to know confirm a shoot down. So to me I have more evidence supporting that than I do about a C130.

And who is the "they" that are giving us false choices?

If I'm going there and this is what I am coming back with (accounts that destroy the official story) who is the "they" giving this option?

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

And who is the "they" that are giving us false choices?

If I'm going there and this is what I am coming back with (accounts that destroy the official story) who is the "they" giving this option?

The perps who left clues for us to follow and believe in two false choices. Remember, it is only a theory.

A shootdown is stll benevolent. It is them covering it up, but it still won't get perps or show an inside job. They give us two possibilties, either the plane crashed or it was shot down.

There is very little evidence to support a nose dive impact. And I would have to assume that people would have seen the crash of the shot down plane that was 'falling apart' and 'crashed' in New Baltimore.

The people who saw the plane dropping debris or falling apart, did they see it on fire? Smoking?

A missile strike would have to produce that would it not?

This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Sep 15 2007, 01:37 PM

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

And who is the "they" that are giving us false choices?

If I'm going there and this is what I am coming back with (accounts that destroy the official story) who is the "they" giving this option?

The perps who left clues for us to follow and believe in two false choices. Remember, it is only a theory.

A shootdown is stll benevolent. It is them covering it up, but it still won't get perps or show an inside job. They give us two possibilties, either the plane crashed or it was shot down.

There is very little evidence to support a nose dive impact. And I would have to assume that people would have seen the crash of the shot down plane that was 'falling apart' and 'crashed' in New Baltimore.

The people who saw the plane dropping debris or falling apart, did they see it on fire? Smoking?

A missile strike would have to produce that would it not?

My beliefs are not final by no means. I need to do more ground work but unfortunately am strapped for cash and now I need to come up with the equipment because Sam is too occupied with other things so our affiliation in regards to this project is officially over.

So when I speak about the event I include what I know and believe to be true to this point. Naturally I could talk to someone this afternoon and everything can change. I am puzzled by what made the crater because Susan's comment about not hearing the explosion has been corroborated by 2 other people who live relatively close to the crash site. I never even brought that up to them because I explained Susan's account off as trauma. But now that 3 people have made the same statements it adds to a possibility of an underground event.

This also explains what I've been saying for the past year about witnesses out there who say they're lights flickered - their houses rattled - and then the plane hit. They never say they heard a huge explosion and I have never asked about it. Instead it seems they've been making reference to the ground shaking as being the plane hitting which we know occured at 10:06AM.

And if all the evidence points to a shoot down and it turns out not to be that but something else, does it matter if it opens the door to a real investigation which ultimately exposes an alternate explanation?

The witnesses are destroying the official story. I'm not interested in proving anything, my sole purpose in interviewing them is to expose the cover up which has taken place and expose what we all know and that is we've been told a lie.

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

So I racked my brain on your scenario.....

All the witnesses from the South seen the UAV.

All the witnesses from the North saw a commercial plane.

The debris field is southeast of the crater. We know John Fleegle saw the UAV while at Indian Lake because that is where he was and he says he saw it before and after which he went to the site as he said within a minute.

Pittsburgh Tribune Review reports Jim Stop was fishing on the lake and saw the plane breaking up in the sky flying real low overhead. Further states that Indian Lake reisdents all called 911 reporting a low flying plane "breaking up on their homes".

Indian Lake and New Baltimore are both Southeast of the crater. Perhaps the UAV was dropping the debris?

Then it launched it's final payload into the ground to cause the crater (the circular fuselage) and explosion? Or perhaps triggered some sort of pre planted device as you speculate.

But this doesn't take into account what happened to the plane all the people from the North saw.

I don't know.......Guess I need to talk to some people. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/yes1.gif)

[amazed!]

Well those federal folks can get a little TOO dramatic, it appears. Sprinkling out aluminum pieces. How funny, but I guess it would work.

And maybe they sprinkled out paper too, as some have reported here. :ph43r:

[paranoia]

just hoping for some input regarding the following:

the hull of this plane C-130A Hercules, N135FF, crashed in a manner very close to the alleged (official) way that 93 crashed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Y3EYumd5k

but the wreckage:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=...X02GA201&akey=1
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/NTSB_acciden...mary_for_N130HP

"Safety Board investigators examined the wreckage at the accident location in a pasture along the east side of Highway 395, 31.47 miles east southeast of the departure point at Minden. There were two debris fields separated by a barbed wire fence. The first debris field consisted of the wings, engines, and propellers, and started 250 feet east of Highway 395. It was measured about 500 feet in length on a magnetic bearing about 090 degrees. A post accident fire consumed major portions of the wing structure and engine magnesium components. Not all components of the right wing structure were recovered.

A second debris field, consisting of the fuselage and empennage, started about 550 feet east of Highway 395, and measured about 720 feet in length on an approximate 090-degree magnetic bearing. There was no fire damage at the second debris field. The fuselage was in a state of structural collapse and disintegration. The landing gears were scattered beyond the main wreckage and the rear drop door was separated. Most instrumentation was destroyed or displayed unreliable indications.

The center wing structure was recovered to the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Camp hangar, located near Bridgeport, California. Subsequently, all wreckage was relocated to a secure storage site at Pleasant Grove, California."

official pics of debris field and of recovered debris:
http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2002/020924.htm



(IMG:http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/hatenames/c130crashdebrisfield.jpg)
(note the surviving tail section)
source (and larger version) of the above: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...30-020924_1.jpg

pic of tail section:
(IMG:http://www.baaa-acro.com/Photos-5/N130HP.jpg)
http://www.baaa-acro.com/Photos%20d'accidents%202002.htm


so am i right about the way the gov alleges 93 crashed? upside down and diving? so shouldnt the debris field of u93 be similar to the c130 crash's debris field, at least to some degree?


***

on a related tip, here is a theory i have been wondering about:

i dont think 93 crashed or was shot down. i dont even think what is supposed to be flight 93 is even flight 93 anymore by the time its flying over pennsylvania. during the time it was lost, another (smaller imo) plane took over and began transponding as 93. this smaller plane made a dazzling display (via low flight in PA), and then landed at the airport on the other side of indian lake. at the time that airport had been for sale (as of 1999) and could have served the purpose of hiding this 93 imposter plane. the crater was fabricated by a ground team, and the debris was mostly likely tossed from the back of the C130 (or other plane large enough to hold debris, and with a cargo door efficient enough to allow for release of said debris). so maybe thats why the debris covered such a wide area.

how does the above fit or not fit? im curious after watching the video interview of Susan Mcelwain (made by TC), how does the above airport jive with her location and where she said the plane (she saw) went?

dom- ur input would be greatly appreciated.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

This post has been edited by paranoia: Jan 24 2008, 05:18 AM

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

so am i right about the way the gov alleges 93 crashed? upside down and diving? so shouldnt the debris field of u93 be similar to the c130 crash's debris field, at least to some degree?

yeah that pretty much is it but the difference is the speed involved for sure as the C130 doesn't appear to be doing anywhere near the speed flight 93 is alleged to have been traveling at.

on a related tip, here is a theory i have been wondering about:

i dont think 93 crashed or was shot down. i dont even think what is supposed to be flight 93 is even flight 93 anymore by the time its flying over pennsylvania. during the time it was lost, another (smaller imo) plane took over and began transponding as 93. this smaller plane made a dazzling display (via low flight in PA), and then landed at the airport on the other side of indian lake. at the time that airport had been for sale (as of 1999) and could have served the purpose of hiding this 93 imposter plane. the crater was fabricated by a ground team, and the debris was mostly likely tossed from the back of the C130 (or other plane large enough to hold debris, and with a cargo door efficient enough to allow for release of said debris). so maybe thats why the debris covered such a wide area.

how does the above fit or not fit? im curious after watching the video interview of Susan Mcelwain (made by TC), how does the above airport jive with her location and where she said the plane (she saw) went?

dom- ur input would be greatly appreciated.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

i'm open to many possibilities but i tend to believe a plane was still shot down. i suspect it wasn't flight 93 but a different flight which did have passengers who were originally or intended to be on flight 93.

wally miller told jeff hill he documented the indian lake site. this was fbi jurisdiction unless there was a specific reason for the coroner of record to go there and photograph something, the fbi would have handled this. so miller more or less disclosed to hill that body parts were recovered from indian lake.

i drove through indian lake and never noticed an airport before. i'll have to locate it so i can map it properly. as for how it would relate to susan's account it would still be southeast of her and the plane was heading north towards where the explosion took place. the airport would be in the direction the plane came from.

i have not met anyone who saw a C130.

i know the guy claiming to have flown the falcon is lying for a fact through corroborated eyewitness accounts. it wouldn't surprise me to learn the same for the C130 considering many witnesses saw fighter jets.

fighter (military) planes and drone vehicles become C130's and corporate jets........

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

New Baltimore, PA

Update :

I've been in contact with a New Baltimore resident who lived there long before 9/11 and still does. I'm not disclosing the identity simply because I have not asked for permission to and this was a private exchange. If anyone is suspect of the following I will ask them if it's ok to identify them but it looks like there really isn't much of a story in New Baltimore, PA.

I asked them about some of the rumors I had heard from Shanksville locals.

Here is the main points of the exchange.

1) I heard the FBI blocked off New Baltimore on 9/11.
Not true at all. I am 100% on this one.

2) I heard that an entire section of the woods was closed off.
Not true to my knowledge. I feel that I would know if something like this happened, but never saw it or heard of it happening. I’m sure you know that news travels in a small town.

3) I heard the Dept of Environmental Protection had to come in during October to "clean" the woods in the closed off section. One person told me that black bears were being drawn in from the smell of the blood.
Never heard of this. There isn’t a great population (known) of black bears in the immediate area surrounding new Baltimore. They are said to be in the mountains (which makes sense because this is the ridge between us and shanksville) but I never saw nor heard of any DEP being in the area for that reason.

4) I heard small pieces of the plane were recovered there, like parts from the fuselage that had shattered.
I’ve heard of papers being recovered but definitely not parts of the plane.

I know people (my mother) heard the explosion, but have only heard of one person (Melanie) recovering actual bits and pieces from inside the plane. I looked myself for papers the evening of the eleventh, but found nothing. My only experience is how it shocked my classmates and me as we watched the newscast of flight 93 at Berlin High School. I hope this helps some, and I hope you find any truth there might be to these possible rumors. In the future, if there is anything that you need help with at all, I give you my full support on this project. Feel free to call me any time at XXX-XXX-XXXX.

So we can pretty much close the book as far as New Baltimore, PA goes IMO.

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Great work, Dom!

I love the support at the end.

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

Thanks bro!

The people I've been speaking too have been amazing. The support they have shown and help they have offered and just overall kindness never ceases to amaze me. I've been very very active as of late and I promise everyone it is going to pay off for all of us.

[Zaphod 36]

The NORAD tapes have phantom flight 93 located at one point at 39.51 N, 78.46 W. I checked the map, it is near Cacapon State Park in the Maryland "pan handle" between PA and WV. If you draw a line from Shanksville to this location, it runs over New Baltimore.

Hi Woody,
can you find out the time when Norad had detected this plane near Cacapon State Park?
NORAD actually thought this plane is Flight 93?

[Truthseekers]

http://www.trust-us.ch/cryptome/01-Cryptom...ank-eyeball.htm

Is this for real? The crash site was created in 1994?

[Domenick DiMaggi...]

No the crash site wasn't created in 1994. Someone is rotating the image and trying to convince people it is located somewhere that it isn't. I am assuming you're talking about the video that implies the 1994 scar is the 2001 wings.