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The Problematic C-130 Flight, What did he really see & where?

Aldo Marquis CIT
post Mar 24 2007, 07:04 PM
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http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...?showtopic=5222

(BLATANT CONTRADICTIONS UNDERLINED)

"When we took off, we headed north and west and had a beautiful view of the Mall," he said. "I noticed this airplane up and to the left of us, at 10 o'clock. He was descending to our altitude, four miles away or so. That's awful close, so I was surprised he wasn't calling out to us. It was like coming up to an intersection"

"We were at about 3,500 feet at the time that I first noticed this commercial airliner in our 12 o'clock position in about a 45-degree bank, which is unusual for a large aircraft to be descending and turning at a 45-degree bank turn like that, so that really got our attention."

-“When air traffic control asked me if we had him [Flight 77] in sight, I told him that was an understatement—by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away. I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was. That caught us up, because normally they have all that information. The controller didn’t seem to know anything.”O’Brien reports that the plane is either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage means it is probably an American Airlines plane. “They told us to turn and follow that aircraft—in 20 plus years of flying, I’ve never been asked to do something like that.”
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Mar 25 2007, 08:48 PM
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Rob,

I think the biggest problem is he has it entering from his left. That would have to place him in the middle of the loop.

Even with the plane coming from the North in the old flyover DC/flyby the Pentagon flight path it would have to come from his right if he is over the mall when he see's it.
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pinnacle
post Mar 26 2007, 01:46 PM
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According to the FAA and the Air Force there were no aircraft of any kind in
the airspace over Washington DC between 9:30 and 10:00 am so how could the
C-130 even be there?
Don't C-130s show up on radar?
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rob balsamo
post Mar 26 2007, 01:57 PM
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pinnicle,

do you have a copy of the letter from the Air Force online? If not, can you put one up?

Thanks in advance...
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amazed!
post Mar 26 2007, 11:04 PM
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Four miles is "awfully close"? Didn't the guy ever do any formation flight?
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SPreston
post May 14 2007, 10:43 AM
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Was the Pentagon truthful with us?

No. Only after they were starting to look like more of a liar than usual, did they back down and admit to the presence of the C-130 over the Pentagon. This was probably from the adamant insistence of eyewitnesses that wouldn’t succumb to the government debriefings. It took them over a month to announce the retraction on Oct 17, 2001. And of course, there was a good story to accompany the report. Lt. Col. Kenneth McClellan, a Pentagon spokesman, made the following statement:

A C-130 cargo plane had departed Andrews Air Force Base en route to Minnesota that morning and reported seeing an airliner heading into Washington at an unusual angle… Air-traffic control officials instructed the propeller-powered cargo plane ‘to let us know where it’s going,’ McClellan said. The C-130 pilot “followed the aircraft and reported it was heading into the Pentagon,” he said. “He saw it crash into the building. He saw the fireball.”199 [Emphasis added]

Was Steve O’Brien truthful with us?

After Lt. Col. Steve O’Brien, was exposed, he and the government attempted to downplay and spin the incident — they even made him one of their witnesses! The Pentagon’s story was that the C-130 cargo plane had been piloted by, Lt. Col. Steve O’Brien of the Minnesota Air National Guard. He and his crew just left Andrews Air Force Base (13 miles from the Pentagon), and were heading back to Minneapolis-St. Paul after moving military supplies around the Caribbean. Here are some excepts from his statement:

“When we took off [About 9:30 a.m.], we headed north and west … I noticed this airplane up and to the left of us, at 10 o’clock. He was descending to our altitude, four miles away or so. That’s awful close, so I was surprised he wasn’t calling out to us. … O’Brien reported that the plane was either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. “They told us to turn and follow that aircraft … “The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge… Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon. …I took the plane once through the plume of smoke and thought if this was a terrorist attack, it probably wasn’t a good idea to be flying through that plume. He flew west, not exactly sure where he was supposed to land.

Are we to believe that after two (soon to be three) terrorist attacks spanning from an hour earlier, a Lt. Colonel wouldn’t have the foggiest idea what was going on? What about a flight briefing before a pilot takes off? What about the FAA grounding issued 5 minutes before his taking off? What about the warnings from the Dulles air traffic controllers? And, how was he flying in the middle of the historical FAA order? They were landing almost 5,000 aircraft on the North American continent. Isn’t it remarkable that only he didn’t know what was going on? Perhaps, the lie that he was to tell depended on showing he was ignorant. One of the elements of this belated tale, like Donald “Tim” Timmerman’s report, was to reinforce the still weak link between the Pentagon’s debris-less crash site and Flight 77.

But the mystery perseveres…

The journey continues to Pennsylvania!

Somewhere over western Pennsylvania, O’Brien looked down at a blackened, smoldering field. “I hoped it was just a tire fire or something, but when I checked with Cleveland center, he told me he’d just lost a guy off the scope…209

Imagine, his C-130 was at the location of two attacks — the Pentagon and Shanksville!

Did the “October surprise” lead to another surprise?

Yet, Steve O’Brien put it best, “…and there was another surprise –– the story turned up on the Internet as part of a conspiracy theory maintaining that no plane hit the Pentagon.” Yes, and there was very good reason for that, thanks to the unbelievable statements like his — which only were fabricated because the government was caught with its “pants pulled down”.

The reality was … eyewitnesses tracked his plane flying directly above a low-flying airliner and guiding it to the Pentagon. It was seen circling above the Pentagon before the airliner allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. Also at Shanksville, the C-130 was they’re circling before the shoot down occurred. So unless everyone else is a liar… And what he was really doing there can only be left up to the imagination…
http://www.911exposed.org/ExplainC130.htm



HTML edited by painter

This post has been edited by painter: May 14 2007, 10:54 AM
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painter
post May 14 2007, 10:57 AM
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QUOTE (SPreston @ May 14 2007, 06:43 AM)
Was the Pentagon truthful with us?
<s>

welcome.gif to the forum, SPreston!
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SPreston
post May 14 2007, 12:21 PM
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welcome.gif to the forum, SPreston!

Thank you painter.

Are these guys for real?
Is it just coincidence that the same C-130 witnessed circling over the Pentagon before the Flight 77 crash, was also seen circling over the Shanksville area before the Flight 93 crash? What is with the lies this guy and the US Military get caught telling? Who could believe that this C-130 could accidentally end up at this second crash site 110 miles away from the Pentagon? Why did they lie about the radio report times for the other crashes? How could a C-130 crew take off from Andrews and not know about the 4 alleged highjackings and the massive attempt to land all commercial aircraft in the US?

How would the alleged hijackers get through 4 cockpit doors with boxcutters, and still prevent all 8 pilots from flipping the 'we are hijacked' switch? It's all BS is what. There were no highjackings. Where did these alleged highjackers get the expertise to fly these airframes like experienced fighter pilots? Those 3 aircraft were remotely flown into their three targets by highly trained US Military personnel who did have that high level of expertise. Only a government backed military operation could have carried out a complex operation like 9-11 and only the US Government meets all the requirements. The 4th aircraft Flight 93 was perhaps botched somehow, maybe because the controlling C-130 first seen over the Pentagon with Flight 77 got to Shanksville too late.

Lt Colonel O'Brien discusses witnessing two 9-11 crashes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUqbOgFiPDI

Witnessing, now remembering the 9-11 attacks
http://www.dma.state.mn.us/press_room/e-zi...dex.php?item=75

Did Flight 93 Crash in Shanksville?
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html
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Cary
post May 14 2007, 01:38 PM
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Welcome to the forum SPreston. Great to see you here.
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SPreston
post May 14 2007, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE (Cary @ May 14 2007, 12:38 PM)
Welcome to the forum SPreston.  Great to see you here.
--------------------

Ron Paul for President 2008


Thank you. Republican Representative Ron Paul is a great American.
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JackD
post May 16 2007, 11:31 PM
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First off, FFF''ing yeah for Ron Paul!!!

see Republicansfor911Truth.com for more


second, can Pinnacle use his FOIA superpowers to either Dulles ATC or Secret Service or even better ANDREWS AFB for records and flight paths of all aircraft taking off from 1am to 10am from Andrews?

the C-130 cleared for take off at 9:25 am (merc, confirm) therefore he MIGHT have entered DC airspace as early as 926 or 9:29, TECHNICALLY not entering after 9:30am...

the radar trace should also be obtained, to check vs O'brien's somewhat faulty memory.
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amazed!
post May 19 2007, 05:12 PM
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WOW! The interview with O'Brien was outstanding. That lying sack of mierda!

Good work to whomever for pointing out that he departed Andrews after the airspace was closed down. And that he "witnessed" 2 crashes is just one of those little "coincidences" so typical of the Official Conspiracy Theory. angry.gif
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JackD
post Jul 31 2007, 02:58 PM
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.... attn CIT : would O'Brien have been in p56 airspace at same time as E4B?

assuming O'brien had time to circle Pentagon and fly through the smoke plume, that would place him over Arlington at 9:40+ (crash 9:38, time for plume to rise to altitude)

The E4B was reported over whitehouse around the same time as the smoke was pouring up from Pentagon.

Both planes at similarly low altitudes would present a navigational hazard.

Did O'brien mention the E4B?
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UnderTow
post Jul 31 2007, 04:14 PM
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Best map of the P56 airspace.
http://www.richardcrouse.com/airspacemaps_p56a.html
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pinnacle
post Jul 31 2007, 04:23 PM
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The E-4B is heading due north with wings banked for a right turn when the CNN video first shows it to the west of the White House. It then turns east and circles at slow speed. It seems impossible for anyone in the air to miss a white 747 in a banking turn with bright sun reflecting off of it.
It appears that the E-4B might have been very close to the pentagon
at 9:38 am.
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JackD
post Aug 4 2007, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (pinnacle @ Jul 31 2007, 03:23 PM)
The E-4B is heading due north with wings banked for a right turn when the CNN video first shows it to the west of the White House. It then turns east and circles at slow speed. It seems impossible for anyone in the air to miss a white 747 in a banking turn with bright sun reflecting off of it.
It appears that the E-4B might have been very close to the pentagon
at 9:38 am.

i'm not skilled enough to attempt it,
but, perhaps John Doe X or his crew might be able to create a 3D simulation
in airspace of the relative positions of the E4B and the C130, as a rough approximation
of whether they would either SEE each other, or need to communicate, due to air traffic safety concerns.

we know that the C130 hung around long enough over pentagon to 1) "see Aa77" and 2) fly through the smoke plume -- so, that argues, based on crash time of 937am (!!) that the C130 was over pentagon about 9:40 --

what is the earliest estimate of the time of E4B appearance?

wouldnt Dulles ATC have to talk to it, or at least know if it?
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amazed!
post Aug 4 2007, 03:27 PM
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Great idea JackD! A 3D simulation of that would be most interesting.

I wonder how hard it is to make one?
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Cary
post Aug 4 2007, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Aug 4 2007, 01:27 PM)
Great idea JackD! A 3D simulation of that would be most interesting.

I wonder how hard it is to make one?

Wouldn't the FDR data be needed for an examination of the E-4B's flight? They're not even admitting it was there. I doubt the FDR data could be obtained under an FOIA request. Like I know what the hell I'm talking about. Yeeha.
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amazed!
post Aug 4 2007, 10:26 PM
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My thoughts were a 3D simulation of the C-130's flight path, what little we know of it. Coordinating known times and approximate locations, if possible. If there were data from radar tracking of that flight, who knows?

It must be very difficult, but who knows?

He is most certainly making stuff up.
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Aug 6 2007, 10:40 AM
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Pinnacle, you are Mark Gaffney correct? Any relation to this guy...

QUOTE
WRIGHT-PAT AIR FORCE BASE GOES TO HIGHEST ALERT
Base activates national command posts
By R. Gaffney
Dayton Daily News
September 12, 2001

Wright-Patterson Air Force Base went on high alert and activated two national command posts Tuesday after terrorists carried out an air attack using hijacked airliners in New York, Washington and Pittsburgh.

The base beefed up gate security Tuesday after two hijacked airliners slammed into the World Trade Center's twin towers in New York City at 8:45 and 9:03 a.m. But the base went into higher gear when the Pentagon became the next target. A hijacked airliner plowed into one section of the five-sided building in Washington, D.C., at 9:43 a.m.

Minutes later, an E-4B National Airborne Operations Center - a white 747 Jumbo Jet often confused with Air Force One - took off from Wright-Pat for an undisclosed destination. It returned later in the day. Wright-Pat is one of a few designated bases for the flying command center.

Meanwhile, top generals on the base huddled and managers sent home nonessential personnel.

Col. Michael Hazen, 88th airbase wing commander, said Tuesday evening the base was operating on "the highest force protection standards" and "will continue as long as the Air Force directs us to stay at heightened alert."

Security police searched cars, causing traffic backups at base gates. Hazen urged the public to stay away from the base to reduce congestion.

F-16 fighter jets came and went during the day. Some belonged to the Ohio Air National Guard's 178th Fighter Group, temporarily based at Wright-Pat because of construction work at the Springfield airport.

Sounds widely reported as sonic booms rocked the Dayton area late in the afternoon, but base officials said they had no information on their origin.

"We are investigating those sounds. I cannot confirm they were sonic booms," said Lt. Col. Ed Worley, director of public affairs at Wright-Pat.

Hazen said only that fighters from Wright-Pat "flew missions, but not to a local emergency." The F-16 can dash at supersonic speeds, but supersonic flight is ordinarily prohibited over the United States.

Dressed in a combat uniform, Hazen kept his remarks brief and returned to the base's battle staff center, where top base leaders were meeting throughout the day.

Earlier Tuesday, a spokeswoman confirmed the command's headquarters at Wright-Pat also had activated its command center, a high-security war room used to manage worldwide support of Air Force combat units during war or times of high tension. "We are preparing to coordinate any assistance . . . that is requested" by military commanders, AFMC spokeswoman Lt. Col. Adrienne Campbell said.

Located inside the AFMC headquarters building at Wright-Pat, the command center operated around the clock throughout the Persian Gulf War to monitor the readiness of combat planes and manage the massive airlift that built up war supplies in the region.

The E-4B National Airborne Operations Center is a flying military command post that is often mistaken for Air Force One when it flies over the Miami Valley. Known as the "Doomsday Plane" during the Cold War, it serves the president and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Under a special agreement, it also supports Federal Emergency Management Agency operations during major disasters.

The E-4B is a highly modified Boeing 747. Equipped with a conference room, briefing room, work rooms and living quarters, it can support crews of up to 114 people. It carries stockpiles of food and can be refueled in flight.

Base representatives had no immediate word on whether anyone from Wright-Pat was a victim of the Pentagon attack.

* Contact Timothy R. Gaffney at 225-2390 or e-mail him at timothy_gaffney@coxohio.com
Copyright, 2001, Cox Ohio Publishing. All rights reserved.
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